[PASSED] WA Border Policy

[The United Universe]

The United Universe Central Proposal Committee reviewed the proposal. It became clear that this was a proposal that we would support.

[Oakster]

Maxwell walks into the room but stays at the back, leaning against the wall. He's passed a draft copy of the WA Border Policy and glances over it as the other Ambassadors are talking. One of which appears to be a wary looking Walrus with a translater.

From a National point of view he feels that this is an interesting policy and one which may or may not be one the Nation of Oakster could support. He gets his phone out of his pocket and writes a quick email:

To: Wellington, Samuel (Foreign Secretary)
From: Lucien, Maxwell (WA Ambassador)

Attached: [Draft] WA Border Policy

Sir, I have attached a draft for an open border type policy being debated here at the WA. By a walrus no less. It could be good for Oakster and so I will keep you up to date with how it develops. Max.

Listening to the points being raised he begins to understand that diversty of the members of the WA and is intrigued.

One part of the draft he is not so sure on is the wording and subsequent implications of 'unlimited travel'. As this point has been raised he waits to see where the debate goes...

After several minutes he feels his phone vibrate and he checks the message:

To: Lucien, Maxwell (WA Ambassador)
From: Wellington, Samuel (Foreign Secretary)

Max, Thanks for the update. It sounds like it could be good economically, especially in light of the news I have to share with you. HRH has pulled us out of Austritaria due to attempts to undermine our Sovereignty and so we now find ourselves in the Region of Germope. I will update you further as things develop. Regards, Sam.

"What the hell!" He exclaimed out loud. With a frown on his face, as he tries to work out the future implications of this and his role in the Foreign Office of Oakster, he turns back to the conversation in the room.

[The Wary Walrus]

Walter slid around the chamber happily, listening to the support being given by the other representatives. He exclaimed:

OROOOO ROH ROH ROO ROO

His translator explained:

The support is excellent to hear! Are there any changes to the text that anyone would like to see?

[Araraukar]

The support is excellent to hear! Are there any changes to the text that anyone would like to see?

This:

create a subcategory under GESTAPO and run duties through them. Then you don't need to use GESTAPO as an abbreviation, and you don't repeat the longhand version."

[The Wary Walrus]

The support is excellent to hear! Are there any changes to the text that anyone would like to see?

This:

create a subcategory under GESTAPO and run duties through them. Then you don't need to use GESTAPO as an abbreviation, and you don't repeat the longhand version."

Walter considered the idea but shook his head

ROOH ROH

His translator nodded and said:

While I am tempted to do that I'd rather work with existing committees rather than complicate the international bureaucracy even more.

[Araraukar]

While I am tempted to do that I'd rather work with existing committees rather than complicate the international bureaucracy even more.

I prefer that approach too, but sub-committees aren't generally as objectionable.

[The Wary Walrus]

While I am tempted to do that I'd rather work with existing committees rather than complicate the international bureaucracy even more.

I prefer that approach too, but sub-committees aren't generally as objectionable.

Walter scribbled intently upon the draft in front of him and then slid back, passing the new document around.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Can always state it and then say something along the lines of 'hereafter refereed to as '[something else]' '.

[Oakster]

The support is excellent to hear! Are there any changes to the text that anyone would like to see?

Maxwell raises his hand to signal his intention to speak.

"Will there be any clarification on the term 'unlimited travel across borders between consenting states without the need of the traveler to present documentation at each border'? Does this mean that even a consenting state is forbidden from putting in place a control of sorts, even if it is just a simple identity check? The defence implications of allowing an unlimited number of persons, entering and leaving a state, without any checks at all are immeasurable and of a magnitude that cant be quantified!"

Taking a breath before continuing, he steps forward away from the wall he was leaning on, and with a little more confidence he continues,

"If Nation A is non-consenting and sends a Citizen to Nation B who is consenting, Nation B will be allowed to check the identity of Citizen X upon entering as a matter of National Security. Citizen X is checked against Nation B's threat list and is cleared and authorised to continue. Citizen A then heads to the border of Nation C who is also a consenting Nation. Nation C is not allowed to check the identity of Citizen X as he is arriving from another consenting Nation, in this case Nation B. However, Nation C and Nation A are at war and Citizen X is actually an aggressive spy who has gained entry to it's enemies Nation. I'm sure you will agree that this could be disastrous. Can you provide safeguards that would ensure that this couldn't happen?"

Pleased that he didn't trip up on his words this time, Maxwell awaits the reply.

[The Wary Walrus]

The support is excellent to hear! Are there any changes to the text that anyone would like to see?

Maxwell raises his hand to signal his intention to speak.

"Will there be any clarification on the term 'unlimited travel across borders between consenting states without the need of the traveler to present documentation at each border'? Does this mean that even a consenting state is forbidden from putting in place a control of sorts, even if it is just a simple identity check? The defence implications of allowing an unlimited number of persons, entering and leaving a state, without any checks at all are immeasurable and of a magnitude that cant be quantified!"

Taking a breath before continuing, he steps forward away from the wall he was leaning on, and with a little more confidence he continues,

"If Nation A is non-consenting and sends a Citizen to Nation B who is consenting, Nation B will be allowed to check the identity of Citizen X upon entering as a matter of National Security. Citizen X is checked against Nation B's threat list and is cleared and authorised to continue. Citizen A then heads to the border of Nation C who is also a consenting Nation. Nation C is not allowed to check the identity of Citizen X as he is arriving from another consenting Nation, in this case Nation B. However, Nation C and Nation A are at war and Citizen X is actually an aggressive spy who has gained entry to it's enemies Nation. I'm sure you will agree that this could be disastrous. Can you provide safeguards that would ensure that this couldn't happen?"

Pleased that he didn't trip up on his words this time, Maxwell awaits the reply.

Walter brushed a tusk absentmindedly as he responded

OROOOO ROOOOOOOOOO

The translator stepped forward and stated:

Perhaps a form of clarification can be written into the draft... there that ought to do it!

[Oakster]

Maxwell's concentration slips for a second and returns as the amended draft is put in front of him. Looking through it, he notices at least one bit that has been changed. He steps toward the Translater, although not sure of the correct etiquette, he points to the section in question and says,

Further authorizes the WABC to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves

"Is this the new addition? If so, I must admit that I don't like the idea of a seperate agency having complete control of my Nations Border, maybe it should read 'Further authorizes the WABC, in consultation and with approval of said Nation, to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves'?"

He looks at the wary Walrus for signs of agreement.

[The Wary Walrus]

Maxwell's concentration slips for a second and returns as the amended draft is put in front of him. Looking through it, he notices at least one bit that has been changed. He steps toward the Translater, although not sure of the correct etiquette, he points to the section in question and says,

Further authorizes the WABC to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves

"Is this the new addition? If so, I must admit that I don't like the idea of a seperate agency having complete control of my Nations Border, maybe it should read 'Further authorizes the WABC, in consultation and with approval of said Nation, to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves'?"

He looks at the wary Walrus for signs of agreement.

Walter thought about it for a few moments and then explained

ROO ROO ROO ROOO ROH OROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

His translator, desperately bored at this point, stated

The separate agency having complete control would be entirely voluntary, and indeed would probably be for the best in terms of security and stability. After all, if each member state had a distinct policy then it wouldn't really work at all, would it?

[Tinfect]

Further authorizes the WABC to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves,

"Ambassador, aside from this resolution's detestable dancing around the laws of the Secretariat, we must object to this clause; surely no sane state will allow their border policy to be managed wholly by an external force? Further, due to the stated goals of this clause, it appears that it will be utilized so as to limit the capacity of the States involved in this foolishness to engage in warfare with one-another. If that is the goal of this clause, it would be far better to simply mandate such, rather than create a barrier that informs States considering the agreement to instead negotiate such independently, something that this draft seems to attempting to avoid."

[The Wary Walrus]

Further authorizes the WABC to change a consenting state's border laws to prevent threats to other consenting states and to deal with serious concerns on their behalves,

"Ambassador, aside from this resolution's detestable dancing around the laws of the Secretariat, we must object to this clause; surely no sane state will allow their border policy to be managed wholly by an external force? Further, due to the stated goals of this clause, it appears that it will be utilized so as to limit the capacity of the States involved in this foolishness to engage in warfare with one-another. If that is the goal of this clause, it would be far better to simply mandate such, rather than create a barrier that informs States considering the agreement to instead negotiate such independently, something that this draft seems to attempting to avoid."

Walter sighed and responded

ROH ROOO OROOH OROH OROH

His translator explained

Ignoring the fact that we have all shown you many times that this proposal is perfectly legal, you are simply incorrect. Plenty of states enter into bilateral agreements of this sort, the goal here is to allow for that on a much larger scale through the mechanisms of the WA. Indeed, limiting warfare would be an excellent side effect of this I suppose, though nations engaged in beneficial arrangements such as this will be less likely to go to war in the first place. Finally, back to the legality issue: put your money where your mouth is. Take it to the secretariat, if it's illegal as written (with regards to that clause, obviously there is no category chosen yet), you win. If it's legal as written, you have to pick up my tab at the Stranger's Bar in perpetuity.

[Tinfect]

Ignoring the fact that we have all shown you many times that this proposal is perfectly legal, you are simply incorrect.

"I no longer claim that it is illegal. Merely that the severe legislative gymnastics it must utilize in order to be legal, is detestable."

Plenty of states enter into bilateral agreements of this sort, the goal here is to allow for that on a much larger scale through the mechanisms of the WA. Indeed, limiting warfare would be an excellent side effect of this I suppose, though nations engaged in beneficial arrangements such as this will be less likely to go to war in the first place.

"Ambassador, while I am aware that many States choose to allow other States some measure of control over their policy, as, in case this has escaped your notice, The Imperium is a Member-State of the World Assembly, I simply cannot see how the clause in question would not be an active incentive for states not to involve themselves in this agreement and instead resort to negotiating such agreements independently.

Ambassador, do keep in mind that at this point, I am attempting to assist you, due to the already noted fact that the Imperium will not be meaningfully affected by this legislation."

Finally, back to the legality issue: put your money where your mouth is. Take it to the secretariat, if it's illegal as written (with regards to that clause, obviously there is no category chosen yet), you win. If it's legal as written, you have to pick up my tab at the Stranger's Bar in perpetuity.

"As stated several times, the Imperium no longer hold the position that this draft is illegal. The Secretariat has made their position clear in the past, and though a pathetic decision, it is not one the Imperium is capable of questioning."

[Oakster]

Maxwell waits for his turn to speak as he mulls over the interpreters response to his suggestion. The bored tone the response was delivered in has confused him and he wonders if it was a sign that the wary Walrus is bored of the debate or if the translater just needed a break?

Listening on to the point of law being discussed by the Nation of Tinfect, Maxwell takes a mint sweet from his pocket, unwraps it and pops it in his mouth. Finding others, he offers one to everyone as he interjects in a pause in their debate.

"Whilst I understand and appreciate your stance on the voluntary nature of the WABC and the potential bureaucratic nightmare of individual policies, to me this seems like an inevitability that stems from such a wide ranging but simple proposal. Maybe, to allay the fears of those Nations that quite rightly feel that the WABC is taking over a large and vital part of a Nations sovereignty, even if it is voluntary, the proposal should make it clear what the changes the WABC would make so that at least the Nation knows what changes they are agreeing to prior to the WABC turning up?"

He crunches the last bit of the mint sweet and swallows it.

"I don't mean that the Policy should itemise in detail the steps they would take as that would be a Policy decision decided on by the WABC when it is created but I think that it should make it clear that the 'new Border policy' will be a set 'one size fits all' process that is non-negotiable. I feel that if you don't, a lot of Nations will agree to this policy and then simply withdraw from the whole process when they don't agree with the changes put in place by the WABC. This will just be a waste of time and money for the Nation and the WABC"

Glancing down at the proposal in his hand, he continues,

"My last point is that the clause - 'Compels all member states to conduct an annual review of their border policies' - now seems a bit redundant when the WABC will be determining the border policy on their behalf. A Nation will in effect be simply reviewing their agreement to accept the WA Border Policy. I suggest that this is struck from the draft or changed to something like - 'Compels the Nations' WABC Liason to maintain regular contact with the WABC to allow for continual review and assessment of the Policy'"

He looks up as a small burp escapes from his mouth. "Excuse me".

[Imperium Anglorum]

Aru, you knew this was coming. @OP, I would number the clauses instead of putting them in a bulleted list.

[The Wary Walrus]

Walter listened to the various voices coming from different areas of the hall and made a few small edits to the draft, changing the layout scheme and changing the border policy clause to ensure that the changes would be known to consenting states before they joined the agreement.

[The City-States of Kataria]

As Vice President Jackson Alexander steps into his office. He finds two memos on his desk marked Urgent. The first is a letter from the President telling him that he will be serving as a WA ambassador in extension to his duties as VP. The second is a draft of a WA open border policy. After reviewing this he writes a memo to be delivered directly to the WAHQ.

"In review of the Open Border Policy Draft. It has come to my attention that the lack of background checks implied with 'Open Border Policy' would make it very easy for a small group of enemy operatives and/or terrorists to embark on a stealth operation across the border of the City-States of Kataria or any WA member state within Norrland and cause chaos. With this said, I also believe that this bill is beneficial overall to the WA and the international community as a whole and believe that the City-States of Kataria, and by extension the region of Norrland, would be open to endorsing it.

- Vice President of the Federation of The City-States of Kataria, Jackson Alexander"

[The Wary Walrus]

As Vice President Jackson Alexander steps into his office. He finds two memos on his desk marked Urgent. The first is a letter from the President telling him that he will be serving as a WA ambassador in extension to his duties as VP. The second is a draft of a WA open border policy. After reviewing this he writes a memo to be delivered directly to the WAHQ.

"In review of the Open Border Policy Draft. It has come to my attention that the lack of background checks implied with 'Open Border Policy' would make it very easy for a small group of enemy operatives and/or terrorists to embark on a stealth operation across the border of the City-States of Kataria or any WA member state within Norrland and cause chaos. With this said, I also believe that this bill is beneficial overall to the WA and the international community as a whole and believe that the City-States of Kataria, and by extension the region of Norrland, would be open to endorsing it.

- Vice President of the Federation of The City-States of Kataria, Jackson Alexander"

Walter read Jackson's memo and had his translator write back the following:

Keep in mind, Ambassador, that in order to enter the Area a group of individuals would have to pass through the initial security border check as imposed by the subcommittee.

[Oakster]

Maxwell looks over the new draft and nods in appreciation at the amendments,

"Very good. Very good. I like it."

Turning to the wary Walrus and his interpretor, he continues "As it stands, this has the full backing of myself, and by extension, the Nation of Oakster. I'll have to email the Foreign Secretary of course, but I see no reason for him not to agree with my decision. You can expect our vote when it stands."

Without thinking, Maxwell extends his hand for a friendly yet formal hand shake to 'seal the deal', and then suddenly realising his mistake, and the lack of hands on the Ambassador he tries to turn it into something else but struggles to think in time. In blind panic, he holds it up in front his face, palm facing the wary Walrus and says, "I salute you wary Walrus with the... err... Oaksterian Salute?" Bowing awkwardly to try to add some authenticity to the salute, he quickly walks out of the room, tripping over a waste paper bin in the process.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Perhaps the addition of a caveat for participating states that they are allowed to limit free passage to particular points along their border would assuage ambassadors. So, movement is still free in that there is no visa requirement and no unnecessary burden of checking excessive documentation, but the movement gets funneled through a few checkpoints rather than one large permeable border where reasonable observation can be taken to prevent smuggling or trafficking. Allowing specific points at which free travel is allowed would allow nations to secure their borders from more serious threats. Further, allowances for minimal documentation check, such as in-country documentation inspections and border checks that focus on ensuring the travel document or passport represents the individual carrying it, is not expired, and has not been falsified by checking the anti-counterfeiting measures required by GAR#73. That way, the passport of a participating state can be checked rapidly, as well as the identity and validity of the document holder. No visa would be required among participating states, but those from outside the free-travel area would be subject to greater scrutiny and requirements."

OOC: This is, apparently, what the Schengen Area does already. It isn't an open floodgate of people. Go figure. The things you learn at random times.

[The Wary Walrus]

OOC: We're back! I don't know if this draft is now outdated, I took a quick look and didn't immediately notice any resolutions which would render it moot.

If anyone disagrees, please let me know! Otherwise, I'll polish it up some more and move it forward.

[Maowi]

"This is something to which we would be delighted to lend our support. My only query is about the rather odd placement of clause 5, which I believe would make a lot more sense directly after clause 2, but other than that practical non-issue I wish you the best of luck."

[Kenmoria]

“I think that clause 7 should have a restriction for those who have been convicted of serious crimes, since these individuals ought to have restrictions on employment and housing on the basis of safety.”