The World Assembly Strangers' Bar

[Whovian Tardisia]

Startled awake from his stool on the bar by visions of people speaking in colors, Pink falls off his stool and hits the deck. His glass, which he had continued to clutch in his sleep, did the same, and as it shattered became cellophane, in case he were to land on it. "Oh, would you look at that." he grumbled, bringing himself back to his feet. "How long have I..." he looks at his watch. "Mother of Time! Did I miss anything? Did they repeal GA 2? Please don''t say..." He fumbled for his phone and frantically began scrolling through the recently passed resolutions.

[Wallenburg]

Ogenbond enters with a book titled, "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money". He stumbles forward slowly, more attention on the book than on the maze of chairs and tables in front of him.

"Fascinating, absolutely fascinating!" he murmurs. "Of course, it isn't nearly enough to safeguard the prosperity of the people, but it certainly is a clever way to stabilize an economy and thus delay the inevitable revolution."

He sits down next to Gerald, who glances at the book and smiles. "Who tricked you into reading a book advocating capitalism?"

"Mr. Parsons, the ambassador from Imperium Anglorum. I gave him a copy of the 1901 pamphlets. He gave me this."

"Well, isn't that grand?" exclaims Gerald. "What do you think of Keynes?"

"He's a smart man for a capitalist. He certainly knows better than those ridiculous excuses for economists over in Gilder."

[Imperium Anglorum]

"Fascinating, absolutely fascinating!" he murmurs. "Of course, it isn't nearly enough to safeguard the prosperity of the people, but it certainly is a clever way to stabilize an economy and thus delay the inevitable revolution."

...

"He's a smart man for a capitalist. He certainly knows better than those ridiculous excuses for economists over in Gilder."

Parsons walks over, 'I'm puzzled. How exactly do you believe prosperity is created? We would venture that standards of living cannot really be meaningfully increased without a decentralised information planning mechanism — i.e. free markets — when a centralised one simply fails to provide accurate signals to manufacturing industries. Similarly, obliterating incentive structures like more pay for more work, overtime, and paying different people different wages just means that people have incentives to cheat the system and do as little as possible'.

'Secondarily, if we read our Marx, it is a requirement in his historical materialism that a capitalist phase exists for there to have class consciousness to have a revolution. Capitalism must be allowed to run its course so that standards of living are increased enough to sustain the abolition of class, the creation of a classless society, and the damage sustained to an economic system. You need a highly developed capitalist structure to build communism. On top of that, if the revolution is inevitable, perpetuating the capitalist system does not matter: the revolution is inevitable regardless of policymakers. Accelerating the revolution is mostly irrelevant.'

'And, I'm also curious. What are the people in Gilder saying?'.

Note: Split off from thread started here.

[Wallenburg]

Parsons walks over, 'I'm puzzled. How exactly do you believe prosperity is created? We would venture that standards of living cannot really be meaningfully increased without a decentralised information planning mechanism — i.e. free markets — when a centralised one simply fails to provide accurate signals to manufacturing industries. Similarly, obliterating incentive structures like more pay for more work, overtime, and paying different people different wages just means that people have incentives to cheat the system and do as little as possible'.

"Well, sir, I can certainly agree with that general message. In the book I have given you, Archsenator Garmany describes the importance of familial and communal responsibility, and a sense of selflessness that drives people to work for the betterment of those they care about. Expanded to a national scale, the workforce recognizes its responsibility as the organ by which the nation sustains itself. However, a level of selfishness and lack of concern for the wellbeing of the society will continue to persist. To facilitate and incentivize cooperation with the society in sustaining itself, economic freedoms are, to an extent, allowed. Quasi-governmental entities such as workers' collectives and unions build economic policy with the national government, then issue directives to publicly owned businesses as well as partnerships and sole proprietorships, which fall outside their scope of authority but often must respond as we wish to the forces that economic policy exerts on the market. As to pay, income equality has become, essentially, a non-issue, as social forces and the lasting effects of decades of progressive tax policies have encouraged businesses to pay workers based on the value of their labor and the cost to the worker without inundating preferred individuals in salaries that they do not need."

'Secondarily, if we read our Marx, it is a requirement in his historical materialism that a capitalist phase exists for there to have class consciousness to have a revolution. Capitalism must be allowed to run its course so that standards of living are increased enough to sustain the abolition of class, the creation of a classless society, and the damage sustained to an economic system. You need a highly developed capitalist structure to build communism. On top of that, if the revolution is inevitable, perpetuating the capitalist system does not matter: the revolution is inevitable regardless of policymakers. Accelerating the revolution is mostly irrelevant.'

"This Marx fellow sounds outright daft to me. A 'capitalist phase'? The people deserve better than further oppression. As says an old Wallenburgian proverb, "There is nothing that can wait until tomorrow that cannot be done today." Rather than allowing those with wealth to fill the roles of the counts and kings of their time, the Revolutionaries decided that the people must immediately seize the means of production for themselves. A government then rose as the living apparatus by which society could exercise its will. This government assumed responsibility for the economy and replaced the inefficient methods of capitalist growth with state-stimulated industrialization and reconstruction. The process was far from painless, but it built the foundations for a modern economy without exploiting the masses as a capitalist hierarchy would have."

'And, I'm also curious. What are the people in Gilder saying?'.

"The predominant belief there is that the government's sole role in the economy should be the engineering of international trade to maximize total national profit--or minimize total loss. They consider government intervention in the domestic market one step away from a mortal sin or something."

[Imperium Anglorum]

Parsons walks over, 'I'm puzzled. How exactly do you believe prosperity is created? We would venture that standards of living cannot really be meaningfully increased without a decentralised information planning mechanism — i.e. free markets — when a centralised one simply fails to provide accurate signals to manufacturing industries. Similarly, obliterating incentive structures like more pay for more work, overtime, and paying different people different wages just means that people have incentives to cheat the system and do as little as possible'.

"Well, sir, I can certainly agree with that general message. In the book I have given you, Archsenator Garmany describes the importance of familial and communal responsibility, and a sense of selflessness that drives people to work for the betterment of those they care about. Expanded to a national scale, the workforce recognizes its responsibility as the organ by which the nation sustains itself. However, a level of selfishness and lack of concern for the wellbeing of the society will continue to persist. To facilitate and incentivize cooperation with the society in sustaining itself, economic freedoms are, to an extent, allowed. Quasi-governmental entities such as workers' collectives and unions build economic policy with the national government, then issue directives to publicly owned businesses as well as partnerships and sole proprietorships, which fall outside their scope of authority but often must respond as we wish to the forces that economic policy exerts on the market. As to pay, income equality has become, essentially, a non-issue, as social forces and the lasting effects of decades of progressive tax policies have encouraged businesses to pay workers based on the value of their labor and the cost to the worker without inundating preferred individuals in salaries that they do not need."

"How are the selfish desires of workers's collectives and unions dealt with? Unions will always want to have the best deal out of the government. And are your unions state run? Because I can speak for ages about how ineffective state-run unions are."

"How does the national government know what everyone needs or wants? How does that government provide the resources for what is produced? How does it make sure that what is created is exactly what the market demands when the decision of what to produce is outside the realm of people on the ground?"

"Exactly how do you deal with the fact that there are more costs than just labour? How do you value innovation, creativity, and intellectual property when the singular metric is hours worked?"

'Secondarily, if we read our Marx, it is a requirement in his historical materialism that a capitalist phase exists for there to have class consciousness to have a revolution. Capitalism must be allowed to run its course so that standards of living are increased enough to sustain the abolition of class, the creation of a classless society, and the damage sustained to an economic system. You need a highly developed capitalist structure to build communism. On top of that, if the revolution is inevitable, perpetuating the capitalist system does not matter: the revolution is inevitable regardless of policymakers. Accelerating the revolution is mostly irrelevant.'

"This Marx fellow sounds outright daft to me. A 'capitalist phase'? The people deserve better than further oppression. As says an old Wallenburgian proverb, "There is nothing that can wait until tomorrow that cannot be done today." Rather than allowing those with wealth to fill the roles of the counts and kings of their time, the Revolutionaries decided that the people must immediately seize the means of production for themselves. A government then rose as the living apparatus by which society could exercise its will. This government assumed responsibility for the economy and replaced the inefficient methods of capitalist growth with state-stimulated industrialization and reconstruction. The process was far from painless, but it built the foundations for a modern economy without exploiting the masses as a capitalist hierarchy would have."

"So, how are civil and political freedoms in Wallenburg? Is the non-unanimity of the populace reflected in the governmental structure? Ignoring the fact that I do not believe, based on what you've told me, that capital formation is more efficient in a socialist structure, how does simple mass industrialisation help standards of living increase?"

'And, I'm also curious. What are the people in Gilder saying?'.

"The predominant belief there is that the government's sole role in the economy should be the engineering of international trade to maximize total national profit--or minimize total loss. They consider government intervention in the domestic market one step away from a mortal sin or something."

Parsons: Well, I understand the second part — many nations, including my own, believe that government intervention in domestic markets is generally ineffective. The first part is simply inane though. Don't they know that there is always a balance of payments between the financial and current accounts?

[Excidium Planetis]

WAHQ Exoatmospheric Landing Pad
(If it didn't have one before, it has one now!)

With a rumble of metamorph tiltjets, a single V64C Majestic dropship impacts the drop zone, landing gear absorbing the shock of the rapid deceleration. The doors to the rear of the ship open up, deploying a squad of Excidian Guards and some other passengers onto the landing pad while the frontal gun swivels back and forth to make sure they are covered in case of attack.

The Guards form a defensive stance around their wards, escorting them toward the offices of the infamous Festering Snakepit.

In a short time, the Guards return, their escort mission fulfilled, and board the craft again. As the Majestic lifts off, one guard pours gasoline out the back onto the landing pad, and fires a single round of his rifle into the resulting puddle. The light reflects off his helmet visor the ground where the ship had landed is torched, removing some of the evidence that they had ever been there.

The Stranger's Bar

Schultz watched the discussion between Parsons and Ogenbond with fascination.

"They consider government intervention in the domestic market one step away from a mortal sin or something."

"Well, 'That government is best which governs least, and when men are ready for it, that's what they shall have'. Of course, I'm almost certainly quoting that wrong."

Unnoticed by Schultz, a man wearing a crisp and clean dark blue uniform with black slacks enters the bar. He is accompanied by two Excidian security officers, neither of whom have any intentions of ordering a peach vodka and a Shirley Temple, respectively.

"I figured I'd find you here."

Schultz turns around to look at the man speaking behind her. Seeing the security team with him, she frowns. "I guess you had to show up eventually."

"Yes, Miss Schultz. You've been allowed to conduct your business here with little to no oversight for far too long. Now that the Department of NationStates has good reason to send another out here to deal with these foreign delegations around the clock, they decided to kill two birds with one stone and instruct me to keep a close eye on you. Rest assured, the interests of Excidium Planetis will be represented now that I am here."

"Excuse me, Ambassador Who-ever-you-are, but I was here first, and I'm still the Delegate, and I've passed multiple resolutions, and I have a name."

"I have a name." The man glares at Schultz. "Evander Blackbourne, pleasure to meet you, Miss Schultz."

"I meant a name that meant something. Say 'Schultz' in this bar and someone will recognize it, even if it's only Neville the bartender. 'Blackbourne' sounds like someone's ordering a drink made with whiskey and boysenberries."

"They recognize the name of Excidium Planetis, surely, and I now speak for our nation. That will do until they have heard of me. Good day, Madam Delegate. I'll see you in your new office later."

Blackbourne turns and walks out of the bar. The guards turn to follow him out, but not before one of them pays for the Shirley Temple.

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

"Well, it grabbed and killed her before digesting her. We never did find out if it snapped her neck or did the constrictor snake thing, but it didn't matter much, really," Janis said and then shuddered. "I headed off to get a flamethrower, but by the time I got back to the office, the thing had filed for nation status and joined the WA. Would've still torched it, but my aides managed to stop me. Probably a good thing too; wouldn't have looked good on my resume to start a war with a WA nation, no matter how pathetic of a nation it was at the time."

TY: (slurring his words slightly) Yeah. Umm. I like the plants. They're good listeners. (His tablet on the table pings. An icon pops up of a gorgeous young woman.) Oh. Ummm. I should probably answer that. Excuse me.

(He takes his tablet and stumbles out of the bar.)

[Louisistan]

OOC: Eating can take a lot of time in this bar

This time it's Wolfgang who answers: "My name is Wolfgang de Ville and I'm representing 10000 Islands while our nation, The Confederacy of Louisistan, holds the Delegacy for that region. My colleague here is Max Becker, Louisistan's regular Ambassador to the WA."

"That is a lot of islands," the cat said, scratching its cheek with one hindleg before turning to look at Max. "So you is the ambassador for your island, then. Is you new to the WA?"

OOC: Btw, Becker served in the Louisistanian delegation as an assistant Ambassador back when the visit to PPU happened, that's how he knows about them.

OOC: This nation didn't exist until later that year, so I'm going to assume/pretend the cat never met him back then. Its growth has stopped to that of about 8-months-old kitten, in case you were wondering. I'm putting that down to WAHQ magic, like their ability to talk...

Also, as I basically treat the regions as gameside fluff when it comes the WA RP, the cat's interpretation of it will do. And grats, by the way, I forgot to congratulate you back when I first noticed it.

IC:
Max decides he has had enough to eat and now offers the leftovers to the cat. "Well yes, so to speak. Technically Greater Louisistan consists of more than one island, but let's not go into too much detail here. And what is your role in this snakepit, young feline?"

[Imperium Anglorum]

Technically Greater Louisistan consists of more than one island

Parsons: Maybe even 10 thousand islands?

[Taigawa]

Technically Greater Louisistan consists of more than one island

Parsons: Maybe even 10 thousand islands?

"I believe you give the deligate more credit then what he has earned, given his recent appointment to the position. Only the founder should have that much territory in my opinion."

(Having been a resident of 10KI before Louisistan became delegate. I left after Valdrin started a shitstorm so bad the founder cracked down on RMB use. Before I left you had to wait 30 mins between RMB posts. Idk if this is still true.)

[Imperium Anglorum]

Parsons: Maybe even 10 thousand islands?

"I believe you give the deligate more credit then what he has earned, given his recent appointment to the pposition. Only the founder should have that much territory in my opinion."

P: Yes, well saying 1000 islands doesn't really make the joke work, does it?

[Taigawa]

"I believe you give the deligate more credit then what he has earned, given his recent appointment to the pposition. Only the founder should have that much territory in my opinion."

P: Yes, well saying 1000 islands doesn't really make the joke work, does it?

"Personally no. Given my isolation from the region it's posible, but I have more faith in the former delegate myself."

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: I feel that I should mention this. I just finished an automatic parser for the GA Passed Resolutions-RexisQuexis thread. Just completed formatting Crime and Punishment in about 10 seconds. So I will be updating that thread more readily in the future. (Now... on the question of repeals... I still have to build that...)

Though, Kenny, is there a Passed Resolutions thread discussion thread? I'd like to link it if it exists.

[Nobreloen]

OOC: I feel that I should mention this. I just finished an automatic parser for the GA Passed Resolutions-RexisQuexis thread. Just completed formatting Crime and Punishment in about 10 seconds. So I will be updating that thread more readily in the future. (Now... on the question of repeals... I still have to build that...)

Though, Kenny, is there a Passed Resolutions thread discussion thread? I'd like to link it if it exists.

OOC: Is that a pun for LexisNexis, which if my memory serves to be correct has to do with legal records?

[Araraukar]

*snip*

*snip*

OOC: The Louisistans still aren't in the main Bar room.

[Louisistan]

OOC: Well that was as much my fault as anyone's when digging up a plot arc from pages ago, adding a little mark about how they're not in the main bar room would've been appropriate

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

(Wad Ty enters the bar, and approaches his favorite cactus.)

TY: Hi. I just want to say thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. You're a very good listener. Perhaps I'll meet one of you again sometime. And if I do, ummm.... hmmm. Okay -- (he types on his tablet) -- here's my private contact information. You can ping me if I'm talking to one of your kind. If you want. Take care, my friend. Friends. Er. Friend. Okay? (He backs away with uncertainty.) Ummm, Neville? A spritz of water for my friend here, and the next shot of fertilizer is on me.

[Potted Plants United]

(Wad Ty enters the bar, and approaches his favorite cactus.)

TY: Hi. I just want to say thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. You're a very good listener. Perhaps I'll meet one of you again sometime. And if I do, ummm.... hmmm. Okay -- (he types on his tablet) -- here's my private contact information. You can ping me if I'm talking to one of your kind. If you want. Take care, my friend. Friends. Er. Friend. Okay? (He backs away with uncertainty.) Ummm, Neville? A spritz of water for my friend here, and the next shot of fertilizer is on me.

A private message arrives:

Subject: "Friend" works

To: Wad Ty of Wrapperian delegation
From: The Hivemind of Potted Plants United

I am glad to have made another friend among the Wads. If you let me know what is your ladyfriend's favourite colour, I can make you a non-sapient flowering plant to give to her.

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

Subject: "Friend" works

To: Wad Ty of Wrapperian delegation
From: The Hivemind of Potted Plants United

I am glad to have made another friend among the Wads. If you let me know what is your ladyfriend's favourite colour, I can make you a non-sapient flowering plant to give to her.

(Ty nods, smiles and, unsure how to proceed, types in a reply of "aquamarine", along with his mailing address. He looks around for a moment and thinks, I'm going to miss... ummm... none of this. Except maybe the cactus. And the scotch. He pockets his tablet and briskly exits the bar, never looking back, and never to return.)

[Excidium Planetis]

He looks around for a moment and thinks, I'm going to miss... ummm... none of this. Except maybe the cactus. And the scotch. He pockets his tablet and briskly exits the bar, never looking back, and never to return.

OOC: Wait, what?
I did not see that coming.

[Wrapper]

He looks around for a moment and thinks, I'm going to miss... ummm... none of this. Except maybe the cactus. And the scotch. He pockets his tablet and briskly exits the bar, never looking back, and never to return.

OOC: Wait, what?
I did not see that coming.

OOC: It says right in his title, Interim Intern. Just a grad student on work study, really.

[Excidium Planetis]

OOC: Wait, what?
I did not see that coming.

OOC: It says right in his title, Interim Intern. Just a grad student on work study, really.

Well, yeah, but the Bar always feels like a timeless place. It feels like Ty was only here for a few days.

That, and he could come back... you know, as an actual Ambassador maybe?

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: It says right in his title, Interim Intern. Just a grad student on work study, really.

Well, yeah, but the Bar always feels like a timeless place.

OOC: The nation of Wrapper has some pretty interesting work-study programmes. I hope you aren't going to tell me the university is in the WA, your country would die from the WAHQ rents. It's steep!

[Araraukar]

OOC: It says right in his title, Interim Intern. Just a grad student on work study, really.

OOC: Figured he was saying goodbyes, so didn't interfere with Janis. But does this mean they'll get a new intern that we can harass?

That, and he could come back... you know, as an actual Ambassador maybe?

Unlikely, based on what Wrapper has told me about him, but hey, he did fairly well, so who knows? After all, he hasn't managed to cause international incidents yet, and you really haven't had a proper work experience around here until you have...

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

Well, yeah, but the Bar always feels like a timeless place. It feels like Ty was only here for a few days.

That, and he could come back... you know, as an actual Ambassador maybe?

Three months. That's about the length of a semester. And no, he's had conversations with Janis and/or the plants that ambassadorship is not his destiny. IC he's a behind-the-scenes sort of person, like a speechwriter; OOC he's actually just a throwaway character I only needed as a placeholder.

OOC: The nation of Wrapper has some pretty interesting work-study programmes. I hope you aren't going to tell me the university is in the WA, your country would die from the WAHQ rents. It's steep!

Relevant. One could consider his recent entry into three debates as his final exam. And anyone who's been around long enough for the Child Pornography Ban debate should recognize who his "professor" on the video screen is.

OOC: Figured he was saying goodbyes, so didn't interfere with Janis. But does this mean they'll get a new intern that we can harass?

"New" intern, yes, one you can harass, pffffft, not bloody likely.