[DRAFT] Repeal "Convention on Execution"

[Wallenburg]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pas ... ?start=348

OOC: In the future, it might be best if we explained our positions in coherent, full sentences, like we learned to do in grade school.

OOC: Indeed. It took me a while to understand "debris" myself.

[Tinfect]

OOC: In the future, it might be best if we explained our positions in coherent, full sentences, like we learned to do in grade school.

OOC: Indeed. It took me a while to understand "debris" myself.

OOC:
To provide a contrast, I figured out what it meant here rather quickly...

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Indeed. It took me a while to understand "debris" myself.

OOC:
To provide a contrast, I figured out what it meant here rather quickly...

OOC: It was plenty simple to figure it out. But, we shouldn't have to. This is a debate and roleplay forum, not a decryption ring.

[Grays Harbor]

OOC:
To provide a contrast, I figured out what it meant here rather quickly...

OOC: It was plenty simple to figure it out. But, we shouldn't have to. This is a debate and roleplay forum, not a decryption ring.

Still lost

[Wallenburg]

OOC: It was plenty simple to figure it out. But, we shouldn't have to. This is a debate and roleplay forum, not a decryption ring.

Still lost

The resolution "To Prevent Dangerous Debris", "DEFINES debris as debris to quiet some illogical complaints".

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Still lost

The resolution "To Prevent Dangerous Debris", "DEFINES debris as debris to quiet some illogical complaints".

Since the repeal of the original was remarkably disingenuous in its deliberate refusal to even consider that member nations might be able to understand the term, that line is my favorite piece of the re-resolution.

[Araraukar]

that line is my favorite piece of the re-resolution.

Agreed.

"But the resolution does not prohibit execution for trivial offenses, and the use of capital punishment in such instances is hardly just, in our opinion.

I think you're failing to understand that "unjust" means "without justice", which is literally impossible, if a nation follows the target resolution. It requires you to have not just one but two trials before death penalty can be applied; one to determine guilt, and the other to set the death penalty. Other resolutions exist to make sure that the trials themselves are fair. As for trivial, as I said before:

What's trivial to you might not be trivial to someone else. Treason, murder, drug trafficking, terrorism, rape, spilling hazardous waste in a nature preserve... What is minor, what is not? For example, in Araraukar treason is considered trivial enough to merely warrant jailtime and reprogramming rehabilitation, the others I listed are punishable by death. Nor should the WA attempt to tell nations what their values are in this matter.

"What is a 'child'? Is an adolescent a child? Where is the line between 'child' and 'non-child' drawn?

Previous legislation may help your government define that, if it is otherwise incapable of doing so. Seriously, if your government is unable to draw the line somewhere, why the fuck are they your government? At least get them some legal advisors or something. (OOC: Also, why is a line drawn by gnomes better than a line drawn by the nation's government?)

OOC: Although ΑΓΚ does not use the death penalty, I do not intend to see a WA-wide ban on capital punishment.

OOC: Then what is your actual beef with this resolution? Or is it just the badge you're after?

[Alpha Gamma Kappa]

"Some offenses are trivial enough to not even remotely merit capital punishment, such as trespassing, the use of profanity, or holding one's fork in the wrong hand. However, 'Convention on Execution' does nothing to prevent executing people for these insignificant misdemeanors.

"Furthermore, the definition in the resolution on child pornography only applies to the resolutions in which it is included."

[Liagolas]

"Some offenses are trivial enough to not even remotely merit capital punishment, such as trespassing, the use of profanity, or holding one's fork in the wrong hand. However, 'Convention on Execution' does nothing to prevent executing people for these insignificant misdemeanors.

"Does the resolution not already encourage member nations to refrain from applying capital punishment to trivial offenses? How is that not prevention enough?" the Mouth asks, now leaning back in its chair and sounding vaguely miffed, rather unusual for it.

[Alpha Gamma Kappa]

"Some offenses are trivial enough to not even remotely merit capital punishment, such as trespassing, the use of profanity, or holding one's fork in the wrong hand. However, 'Convention on Execution' does nothing to prevent executing people for these insignificant misdemeanors.

"Does the resolution not already encourage member nations to refrain from applying capital punishment to trivial offenses? How is that not prevention enough?" the Mouth asks, now leaning back in its chair and sounding vaguely miffed, rather unusual for it.

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

[Grays Harbor]

"Does the resolution not already encourage member nations to refrain from applying capital punishment to trivial offenses? How is that not prevention enough?" the Mouth asks, now leaning back in its chair and sounding vaguely miffed, rather unusual for it.

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

I'm sorry, but your own paranoid delusions hardly qualify as a basis for repeal. Come up with a reason beyond "but ... but ... WHAT IF?" and we may consider this a legitimate try for improvement and not yet another "because I don't like it." repeal attempt.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Does the resolution not already encourage member nations to refrain from applying capital punishment to trivial offenses? How is that not prevention enough?" the Mouth asks, now leaning back in its chair and sounding vaguely miffed, rather unusual for it.

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

"How, exactly, do you intend on separating one crime from another?"

[Alpha Gamma Kappa]

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

I'm sorry, but your own paranoid delusions hardly qualify as a basis for repeal. Come up with a reason beyond "but ... but ... WHAT IF?" and we may consider this a legitimate try for improvement and not yet another "because I don't like it." repeal attempt.

"These are not 'paranoid delusions', ambassador. Some nations do, in fact, execute their citizens for very minor infractions.

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

"How, exactly, do you intend on separating one crime from another?"

"That is a difficult question, although I'm certain that some more experienced author of resolutions will be fully capable of completing such a task."

[Araraukar]

"These are not 'paranoid delusions', ambassador. Some nations do, in fact, execute their citizens for very minor infractions.

Again, what is minor to you, may not be minor to others. And vice versa. Tell me, is murder minor to you? (OOC: It's very minor to my WA nation as long as it's that nation's citizens that are killed.) Howabout selling weapons to a country at war? (OOC: We have existing IC precendent on that latter being death penalty punishment in Wrapper's stuff in Stranger's Bar, but he's on vacation atm and can't comment here.) Selling drugs to children? (OOC: In Eireann Fae at least children can do whatever they like; drugs, drinking, sex, etc. If memory serves, they don't really have an "age of majority".)

[Liagolas]

"These are not 'paranoid delusions', ambassador. Some nations do, in fact, execute their citizens for very minor infractions.

Again, what is minor to you, may not be minor to others. And vice versa. Tell me, is murder minor to you? (OOC: It's very minor to my WA nation as long as it's that nation's citizens that are killed.) Howabout selling weapons to a country at war? (OOC: We have existing IC precendent on that latter being death penalty punishment in Wrapper's stuff in Stranger's Bar, but he's on vacation atm and can't comment here.) Selling drugs to children? (OOC: In Eireann Fae at least children can do whatever they like; drugs, drinking, sex, etc. If memory serves, they don't really have an "age of majority".)

"The Dominion concurs with the Araraukaran delegate," the Mouth says with a curt nod. "The Dominion itself has been accused by some of executing individuals for minor crimes whilst their nations allow their citizens to get away with acts that would be high and grievous crimes in the Dominion. Cultural differences make a definition of 'trivial' impossible."

"Mere encouragement is not sufficient. Some nations will still abuse the weakness of that particular clause to execute their citizens for letting their grass grow too tall if they feel like doing so."

"It is the certainty of the Dominion that the act of allowing one's grass to grow beyond state established bounds may be a severe infraction in some nations," the Mouth says. "For example, if allowing that grass to grow too tall wreaks ecological havoc that is very specific to the nation. It is the consideration of the Dominion that the act of allowing one's grass to grow beyond state established bounds may actually be a severe infraction in the Dominion given certain circumstances."

[Separatist Peoples]

"How, exactly, do you intend on separating one crime from another?"

"That is a difficult question, although I'm certain that some more experienced author of resolutions will be fully capable of completing such a task."

"A repeal without a replacement will only make this situation worse, as execution will go unregulated. If you have no replacement in mind, you'll just create the same abuses you strive to eradicate. The C.D.S.P. will not support unregulated chaos on this issue."

[Bears Armed]

"It is the certainty of the Dominion that the act of allowing one's grass to grow beyond state established bounds may be a severe infraction in some nations," the Mouth says. "For example, if allowing that grass to grow too tall wreaks ecological havoc that is very specific to the nation. It is the consideration of the Dominion that the act of allowing one's grass to grow beyond state established bounds may actually be a severe infraction in the Dominion given certain circumstances."

"Indeed. In the thankfully long-ago days of the thankfully short-lived 'Demon Empire' which once plagued ourr beforebears, according to reliable historical sources, among the side-effects of the chaotic energies released in certain areas was the creation of a type of grass that, upon attaining a certain size, became actively carnivorous! It's all gone by now, at least except for -- maybeso -- out in the Hazardous Wastes to ourr east, but if it should ever reappear then I could definitely smell the potential for legislation about keeping grass in inhabited areas short as a precautionary measure..."

Artorrios o SouthWoods,
ChairBear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly.

[Araraukar]

"Indeed. In the thankfully long-ago days of the thankfully short-lived 'Demon Empire' which once plagued ourr beforebears, according to reliable historical sources, among the side-effects of the chaotic energies released in certain areas was the creation of a type of grass that, upon attaining a certain size, became actively carnivorous! It's all gone by now, at least except for -- maybeso -- out in the Hazardous Wastes to ourr east, but if it should ever reappear then I could definitely smell the potential for legislation about keeping grass in inhabited areas short as a precautionary measure..."

OOC: You'll probably get tired of hearing this, but I love your RP reality!

[Alpha Gamma Kappa]

"Should we submit this?"

[The Silver Sentinel]

"Should we submit this?"

You would be wasting your time. The arguments are not strong enough to convince enough people to vote in favour of the repeal.

[Liagolas]

"Should we submit this?"

You would be wasting your time. The arguments are not strong enough to convince enough people to vote in favour of the repeal.

"The Dominion agrees," the Mouth says with a curt nod.

[Wallenburg]

You would be wasting your time. The arguments are not strong enough to convince enough people to vote in favour of the repeal.

"The Dominion agrees," the Mouth says with a curt nod.

"As do we. The terms of the target resolution are quite reasonable, and an attempt to repeal will see significant opposition regardless of the intent to replace it."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Should we submit this?"

"Nope."

[Liagolas]

"The Dominion extends its condolences to the ambassador of Alpha Gamma Kappa," the Mouth says with a mournful nod. "It was a noble effort, but the World Assembly has too little to gain from this repeal. It would not be efficient."

[Alpha Gamma Kappa]

"Given the general consensus that we should not submit this proposal, we are going to discard it and allocate our efforts towards other drafts."

OOC: I've asked the mods to lock this thread.