Who Really Controls the GA?

[Excidium Planetis]

People seem to have a lot of opinions on who controls the General Assembly:

Understanding that most WA Delegates are just lemmings.

Realising that those WA Delegates are approving absolutely horrifying WA proposals.

Requiring that WA Delegates must read all resolutions before approving.

RPers write the laws. The laws pass. All the laws on the books are then written by RPers... Hmmm. I wonder whose agenda is getting approved? Do you think Gameplayers are really paying attention to the GA? We frequently pass legislation then repeal it instantly... Clearly the voters don't have a clue.

The GA also isn't run by roleplayers at all. It affects roleplayers - It is run by the same people who run the SC. Gameplayers... The GA only affects roleplayers but you'll find the same people who control the SC control that.

The WA elite already control a significant minority of the voting bloc. Any attempt at installing a leader would serve only to perpetuate their power through a named puppet.

Bitely's conspiracy about a WA Elite are already true.
Ever hear of the United Nations Old Guard?

Personally, I think that the dedicated GA authors (who I assume to be, like me, mainly RPers, even if the GA is all their RP) control the GA. Then the lemmings empower them by passing everything.

What do you think? Who really controls the General Assembly?

[Riftey]

Super delegates of course in descending order of endorsement count. What do I see as a super delegate? 50+ endorsements. You get their backing and you are assured that said proposal will pass. Wasting your time on individuals or delegates with small endo counts is a idiotic thing to do.

Now when I say Super Delegates that does encompass Gameplayers. You find (Not going to spoon feed you this; Just go look at all the regions with 50+ endorsements on the delegate) that majority of the super delegates are from a Gameplayer standing. From my personal experiences i've found it to be that gameplayers don't really have much concern for what passes through the GA.

To return to an analogy - If we look at the GA as a Vehicle it makes sense. Roleplayers (And a few odd gameplayers) propose legislation which is the fuel for the Vehicle. Super delegates (And in turn Gameplayers) have the keys. The Fuel (Legislation) can sit in the tank of the Car (GA) for as long as it wants; However it is useless until some turns the key (Super Delegates) and actually use the fuel.

Anyone who disagrees; Good job. However I ask a simple thing. Find me a solid example of how Roleplayers have controled the outcome of a proposal. It'll be hard. However point out multiple examples of how gameplayers have controlled what passes and what doesn't would take me 5 minutes.

[Bananaistan]

Theoretically everyone equally shares in the power. Unfortunately, they usually cede their power to the super delegates and the vast majority of voters, despite having the collective power, simply go with whatever way the wind is blowing.

[Aranoff]

It is clear to us that the people who control the General Assembly are those who opt only to read the title of a proposal, and violate "Read the Resolution." Whoever comes up with the most liberal title often comes away the victor.

[Elke and Elba]

Super delegates of course in descending order of endorsement count. What do I see as a super delegate? 50+ endorsements. You get their backing and you are assured that said proposal will pass. Wasting your time on individuals or delegates with small endo counts is a idiotic thing to do.

Now when I say Super Delegates that does encompass Gameplayers. You find (Not going to spoon feed you this; Just go look at all the regions with 50+ endorsements on the delegate) that majority of the super delegates are from a Gameplayer standing. From my personal experiences i've found it to be that gameplayers don't really have much concern for what passes through the GA.

To return to an analogy - If we look at the GA as a Vehicle it makes sense. Roleplayers (And a few odd gameplayers) propose legislation which is the fuel for the Vehicle. Super delegates (And in turn Gameplayers) have the keys. The Fuel (Legislation) can sit in the tank of the Car (GA) for as long as it wants; However it is useless until some turns the key (Super Delegates) and actually use the fuel.

Anyone who disagrees; Good job. However I ask a simple thing. Find me a solid example of how Roleplayers have controled the outcome of a proposal. It'll be hard. However point out multiple examples of how gameplayers have controlled what passes and what doesn't would take me 5 minutes.

When RPers controlled super-delegate positions?

Also, the logic is so flawed here with the sweeping assumption that GPers control the superdelegates, and that GPers are exclusively not RPers. Last I remembered TNP, TRR, XKI actually gives a bloody damn about what is being proposed and written before deciding its votes.

[Riftey]

Super delegates of course in descending order of endorsement count. What do I see as a super delegate? 50+ endorsements. You get their backing and you are assured that said proposal will pass. Wasting your time on individuals or delegates with small endo counts is a idiotic thing to do.

Now when I say Super Delegates that does encompass Gameplayers. You find (Not going to spoon feed you this; Just go look at all the regions with 50+ endorsements on the delegate) that majority of the super delegates are from a Gameplayer standing. From my personal experiences i've found it to be that gameplayers don't really have much concern for what passes through the GA.

To return to an analogy - If we look at the GA as a Vehicle it makes sense. Roleplayers (And a few odd gameplayers) propose legislation which is the fuel for the Vehicle. Super delegates (And in turn Gameplayers) have the keys. The Fuel (Legislation) can sit in the tank of the Car (GA) for as long as it wants; However it is useless until some turns the key (Super Delegates) and actually use the fuel.

Anyone who disagrees; Good job. However I ask a simple thing. Find me a solid example of how Roleplayers have controled the outcome of a proposal. It'll be hard. However point out multiple examples of how gameplayers have controlled what passes and what doesn't would take me 5 minutes.

When RPers controlled super-delegate positions?

Also, the logic is so flawed here with the sweeping assumption that GPers control the superdelegates, and that GPers are exclusively not RPers. Last I remembered TNP, TRR, XKI actually gives a bloody damn about what is being proposed and written before deciding its votes.

What? What's the first line in reference to?

I addressed that issue in telegram to him. I made clear that some GPers roleplay (I do - Got a nation no one knows bout). Pulling a couple of examples out of your ass doesn't exactly prove anything buddy. Just with most things in this world and especially this site - Nothing is cut and dry. There will always be the odd exception; In this there are a few regions. Super delegates for the most part are Gameplay Oriented. Having Gameplayers who roleplay on the side does not make them roleplayers. It makes them gameplayers who roleplay. You will find it very hard to find a quantitative amount of super delegates who place Roleplay above Gameplay. However feel free to try and do it.

To just restate my point - the GA is controlled by the same people who run the SC. Super delegates. The WA Elite as we seem to be hearing a lot of lately. It does not matter who provides the legislation. Controlling of both the GA and SC lands in the hands of those who decide what passes and what doesn't.

[Normlpeople]

Superdelegates, but with a lot of lemming influence. Most superdelegates are bound to a code which forces them to vote with the regional majority, most of whom are likely lemmings who either don't read the resolution or don't read beyond the title.

If the title has a liberal/socialist slant to it, or there is a lemming targetted telegram campaign, then often the lemmings carry it to victory, and often the superdelegates are forced along for the ride.

[Equestria and Griffon]

The delegates decide basically,as we can see with the latest security council news.
OH ME GAWD

[Kalosia]

Girls!

Despite being a WA member I'm not very active here and I may not know a lot of the words you guys are using (Lemmings?) but I feel if it were anyone (other than the literal people who own it aka Max Barry and perhaps the site administrators) it would be the people most active and influential here in the WA. They may not control it officially but they can more easily influence people to vote in their favour.

okay i admit i only posted for that reference

[Wrapper]

Nobody controls it. People who whine that they can't convince enough high-endo delegates to vote for their proposals ought to look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers. Their proposals may be sub-par, or too complex for the average player to understand, or addressing "boring" topics or just too damn long that most players can't be bothered with them. Or, perhaps, they just aren't throwing enough money at this game like the Bitelys and Auralias do.

[Vancouvia]

This poll serves only to attract attention away from the GA Elite. I hope it is locked

[Elke and Elba]

Nobody controls it. People who whine that they can't convince enough high-endo delegates to vote for their proposals ought to look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers. Their proposals may be sub-par, or too complex for the average player to understand, or addressing "boring" topics or just too damn long that most players can't be bothered with them. Or, perhaps, they just aren't throwing enough money at this game like the Bitelys and Auralias do.

Well, at least Auralia had decent writing as opposed to Bitely...

I don't think money is that important of a factor - Bitely's fails are quite a spectacular sight - while myself I haven't had thrown a single cent in TG stamps, and at least got a GA and a SC proposal to stick. I think it really boils down with effective communication, diplomatic skill and certainly very sound logic - like getting to the superdel forums to get the idea across, or to argue against why something is a bad idea - may make a world's difference.

[Wallenburg]

Let's be candid: nobody controls the GA. This place is Chaos, and none of us knows what the fuck we're doing. You're lucky if you survive.

[Excidium Planetis]

Girls!

Despite being a WA member I'm not very active here and I may not know a lot of the words you guys are using (Lemmings?) but I feel if it were anyone (other than the literal people who own it aka Max Barry and perhaps the site administrators) it would be the people most active and influential here in the WA. They may not control it officially but they can more easily influence people to vote in their favour.

okay i admit i only posted for that reference

Lemmings: Voters who vote without any actual knowledge of the resolution, usually voting the way the vote is already going, but sometimes voting yes because the title is cool or because they just like saying yes.

Anyways, this is sound logic in my opinion.
If, as Normlpeople says,

If the title has a liberal/socialist slant to it, or there is a lemming targetted telegram campaign, then often the lemmings carry it to victory, and often the superdelegates are forced along for the ride.

Then it is obvious the authors (who write the titles, and more often than not write the telegrams too) who control the lemmings who control the GA. Thus, the authors of resolutions ultimately control the GA.

[Vancouvia]

Early voting stacking by large, already-informed delegates is way more powerful than any amount of lemmings because they determine the course of the lemmings. Therefore, lemmings have no power; they are a group that is easily swayed.

The GA Elite influence the writers which influence the early voting delegates (who are also influenced by the GA Elite or are members themselves), which in turn influences the common nations. The GA Elite are not influenced by any other group other than themselves, and they exert substantial influence over other factions. This designates them as "in control" of the GA.

[Excidium Planetis]

Early voting stacking by large, already-informed delegates is way more powerful than any amount of lemmings because they determine the course of the lemmings. Therefore, lemmings have no power; they are a group that is easily swayed.

Agreed.

The GA Elite influence the writers which influence the early voting delegates (who are also influenced by the GA Elite or are members themselves), which in turn influences the common nations. The GA Elite are not influenced by any other group other than themselves, and they exert substantial influence over other factions. This designates them as "in control" of the GA.

Your pretense of believing the Bitely cobspiracy is no longer funny. Although if you take out all that WA Elite nonsense, I'd agree with that model.

[Nouvelle o France]

Early voting stacking by large, already-informed delegates is way more powerful than any amount of lemmings because they determine the course of the lemmings. Therefore, lemmings have no power; they are a group that is easily swayed.

The GA Elite influence the writers which influence the early voting delegates (who are also influenced by the GA Elite or are members themselves), which in turn influences the common nations. The GA Elite are only influenced by Aliens Radiowaves, Hypno Toads and Chief Advisor Yuri with the *so called* Alcohol Influence being a Illuminati plot to discredit the power of Vodka. This designates them as "in control" of the GA.

If you're going to go full Paranoid, at least get thing right...

[Vancouvia]

The GA/WA Elite is not a joke. There are a real group of nations that dramatically influence the outcome of votes. I don't care if you don't believe me or think I'm joking; there's a dozen reasons to be contrary to this viewpoint and I understand why so many people are.

[Zanera]

I don't bother reading any telegrams sent by people asking for a certain vote. I don't know any major WA people.

I find this to be a conspiracy theory about some people that are supposed to be the WA Illuminati, is what I'm seeing.

[Caracasus]

The GA/WA Elite is not a joke. There are a real group of nations that dramatically influence the outcome of votes. I don't care if you don't believe me or think I'm joking; there's a dozen reasons to be contrary to this viewpoint and I understand why so many people are.

Where? Anyways, the fact is that picking a title helps - doesn't have to be liberal or socialist (and frankly that covers a very broad spectrum of political thought in itself) as Bitely proved with the space one - it helps to have a title that people like.

Superdelegates can determine the course of a resolution from the start though, that much is clear although I'm kind of loathe to dismiss the "lemmings" argument, I think it might be a little more complex than everyone piling in to support/decline a resolution... but anyways, there does seem to be a decent chunk of relatively easily swayed voters who barely skim the resolution.... the effectiveness of TG campaigns kind of shows this I think.

Then finally you've got the regulars who debate and work on resolutions. In the best instances, they act as gatekeepers, helping to refine potential legislation, root out loopholes and so forth, whilst dismissing some proposals out of hand due to illegalities and so forth.

Then you've got the fact that there's some crossover between some of the different groups.... Honestly, I don't think anyone really controls the WA.

[Vancouvia]

If the top 10 highest delegates got together before a proposal went to vote and decided upon its outcome and agreed to vote within the first five minutes it went through, then whether they all voted For or Against they alone would determine its outcome. Delegates are incredibly more powerful than individual nations. If you look at Foreign Patent Recognition you'll see that individual nation votes account for roughly half of the total vote; the other half is coming straight from delegates. Early voting combined with bloc voting coming from the top delegates would be an unstoppable force.

[Ardortia]

If the top 10 highest delegates got together before a proposal went to vote and decided upon its outcome and agreed to vote within the first five minutes it went through, then whether they all voted For or Against they alone would determine its outcome. Delegates are incredibly more powerful than individual nations. If you look at Foreign Patent Recognition you'll see that individual nation votes account for roughly half of the total vote; the other half is coming straight from delegates. Early voting combined with bloc voting coming from the top delegates would be an unstoppable force.

So you mean these guys:

SillyString (600?), Paffnia (450), Pierconium (414), Ramaeus (393), Mousebumples (384), Mediobogdum (348), Solorni (182), Imperium Anglorum (172), New Rogernomics (147), Vancouvia (132).

Vancouvia, have you been invited to the secret forum under the Great Pyramid where they all decide exactly how they're all going to vote? Because looking at this list, SillyString hasn't voted yet and Mousebumples, Mediobogdum, and yourself voted against.

[The Sheika]

I could be wrong, and if I am it certainly would not be the first or last time, but I think those who show up and offer an intelligent debate over a proposed resolution, those who put in the work to either support to condemn a resolution, and those who take the time to attempt to help members in drafting a resolution are the ones who control the GA. Anybody who wants a voice or to take part is free to step up, but that doesn't mean they can just come and go as they please and expect everything to work out their way all the time.

This claptrap about an Elite being in existence is the utterance of those who ramrod their legislation down our throats and scream "it's a really good idea!" without taking advice into consideration. Nobody is trying to control anybody here, everybody is trying to think of how a resolution will effect them and therefore they aggressively address those that could have a negative impact.

Of course money talks. As we've seen a recent boon in the mail handling service with the very generous donation from Bitely. Typically if people get a telegram about a resolution, they'll jump right onto the money train without taking a moment or two to read the resolution, repeal, etc. Once again, I might be wrong but that is how it looks from over here.

[Syrixia]

@Riftey: How would a super delegate have a minimum of 50 endorsements? That's not a lot at all. A SUPER DELEGATE would have, like, 600. Now that's a super delegate.

@Ardortia: SillyString can't just vote, lol. The TNP Ministry of WA Affairs has to analyze it and present the voters with a recommendation. Then the voters vote, and whichever wins, SS votes. If we say aye, she votes aye. If we say abstain, no vote. If we say nay, she votes nay. Currently, I think we're still either voting or have abstained.

[Imperium Anglorum]

This claptrap about an Elite being in existence is the utterance of those who ramrod their legislation down our throats and scream "it's a really good idea!" without taking advice into consideration. Nobody is trying to control anybody here, everybody is trying to think of how a resolution will effect them and therefore they aggressively address those that could have a negative impact.

THIS.