NationStates

Bordav wrote:Maybe we should begin with banning cattle farming, eh?

How about not.

Bordav wrote:

Nouvelle o France wrote:
I never saw any resolution about animal rights, so I'd say, they have none.

By god that's why I want to pass this resolution!

Then start by drafting one about banning *unnecessary* cruelty against them before proposing an outright absolute protection from this assembly for them, I am sure it would be better received and depending on its wording and content, we might even approve it.

Look. You can't make every nation become vegetarian: it's simply not feasible. There are entire nations whose economies are built on cattle farming, fishing, etc.

Also, what's the category? Strength?

Bordav wrote:By god that's why I want to pass this resolution!

"And how many purely advanced carnivorous creatures do you want to see go extinct to make sure the few other creatures that get eaten just have their population swell, which that alone could destroy the environment, leading to their own extinction."

And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

Bordav wrote:And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

Um, no. Some nation's aren't progressive enough to research alternatives. Also, everybody needs to eat meat, unless you are a nation where plants are the only sapient life form.

Bordav wrote:And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

"There's still the risk of destabilizing the environment and the economy. Plus, some nations don't have either enough farmland or good enough soil to grow enough alternative food, what about those nations. Just because some are advanced doesn't mean there are no other problems being faced, and banning something so simple can do so much."

Bordav wrote:And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

We have many medieval or even more, no offense, backwater nations inside this assembly, so I do not think they have any alternatives. Even Industrial nations such as ours probably could not find such alternatives, so this is but a dream

Kaboomlandia wrote:

Bordav wrote:And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

Um, no. Some nation's aren't progressive enough to research alternatives. Also, everybody needs to eat meat, unless you are a nation where plants are the only sapient life form.

Um no, humans are the only sapient life forms here, not some strange carnivorous somehow sapient life forms.

I won't support this due to the reason that it is up to the individual to choose to be a vegetarian/vegan, this idea seems to be quite Authoritarian by forcing the state to force people to be veggies

Bordav wrote:

Kaboomlandia wrote:Um, no. Some nation's aren't progressive enough to research alternatives. Also, everybody needs to eat meat, unless you are a nation where plants are the only sapient life form.

Um no, humans are the only sapient life forms here, not some strange carnivorous somehow sapient life forms.

Herby
Bears Armed
Ferret Civilization
You were saying?

Ferret Civilization wrote:

Bordav wrote:And by the way even carnivores can get nutrients from sources other than meat. Any nation in the WA should be advanced enough to create a cruelty free alternative. That way nobody has to die. The carnivores and the other animals both win.

"There's still the risk of destabilizing the environment and the economy. Plus, some nations don't have either enough farmland or good enough soil to grow enough alternative food, what about those nations. Just because some are advanced doesn't mean there are no other problems being faced, and banning something so simple can do so much."

Excuse my language but did you pull that logic out of your ass? It takes more farmland to feed animals than it ever would to create an alternative to meat from plants.

Bordav wrote:Um no, humans are the only sapient life forms here, not some strange carnivorous somehow sapient life forms.

You would be surprised at the diversity of this assembly and I would advise you to retract such a statement in the interest of all your nation future interventions inside this assembly

Creepwood wrote:I won't support this due to the reason that it is up to the individual to choose to be a vegetarian/vegan, this idea seems to be quite Authoritarian by forcing the state to force people to be veggies

I think it's worse to force animals to die for no reason.

Bordav wrote:

Ferret Civilization wrote:
"There's still the risk of destabilizing the environment and the economy. Plus, some nations don't have either enough farmland or good enough soil to grow enough alternative food, what about those nations. Just because some are advanced doesn't mean there are no other problems being faced, and banning something so simple can do so much."

Excuse my language but did you pull that logic out of your ass? It takes more farmland to feed animals than it ever would to create an alternative to meat from plants.

Yes, but it would take years of research and billions of dollars in funding to develop an alternative to meat from plants, making it completely unfeasible.

Ambassador, this topic is completely unworkable in its current form, and you still haven't shown us a draft. Take some time to participate in debates here, for your own sake.

Bordav wrote:Excuse my language but did you pull that logic out of your ass? It takes more farmland to feed animals than it ever would to create an alternative to meat from plants.

"Yes I just pulled that logic out of my ass thank you very much. The plants needed to feed animals, especially herbivores, are less draining on the soil, and can be grown with more yield then with trying to grow food that supply the protein carnivores need."

Bordav wrote:

Creepwood wrote:I won't support this due to the reason that it is up to the individual to choose to be a vegetarian/vegan, this idea seems to be quite Authoritarian by forcing the state to force people to be veggies

I think it's worse to force animals to die for no reason.

"The Animals are not sapient. Their lives are of little concern to the Imperium."

Nouvelle o France wrote:

Bordav wrote:Um no, humans are the only sapient life forms here, not some strange carnivorous somehow sapient life forms.

You would be surprised at the diversity of this assembly and I would advise you to retract such a statement in the interest of all your nation future interventions inside this assembly

By "here" I meant Bordav. And by stage I meant unknown to my civilization. I am by no reason being racist, I respect you all.

Bordav wrote:

Ferret Civilization wrote:
"There's still the risk of destabilizing the environment and the economy. Plus, some nations don't have either enough farmland or good enough soil to grow enough alternative food, what about those nations. Just because some are advanced doesn't mean there are no other problems being faced, and banning something so simple can do so much."

Excuse my language but did you pull that logic out of your ass? It takes more farmland to feed animals than it ever would to create an alternative to meat from plants.

While I can't agree with the alternative part, it is true that farmlands typically occupy less space by volume of food produced than pastures. But that is assuming plants can be a viable alternative, which is still far-fetched

Bordav wrote:

Nouvelle o France wrote:
You would be surprised at the diversity of this assembly and I would advise you to retract such a statement in the interest of all your nation future interventions inside this assembly

By "here" I meant Bordav. And by stage I meant unknown to my civilization. I am by no reason being racist, I respect you all.

Well, compliance is mandatory for all nations of the WA, so anything you hypothetically were to pass affects nearly 20,000 other nations.

Ferret Civilization wrote:

Bordav wrote:Excuse my language but did you pull that logic out of your ass? It takes more farmland to feed animals than it ever would to create an alternative to meat from plants.

"Yes I just pulled that logic out of my ass thank you very much. The plants needed to feed animals, especially herbivores, are less draining on the soil, and can be grown with more yield then with trying to grow food that supply the protein carnivores need."

Actually they are usually the same plants an 16x more need to be grown for animals.

One of the TDC representatives is eating some KFC.
"Oh, um, sorry."
He sits the chicken bucket down.
"We can't support this. Protein is required in the diet of the human being, and thus without protein, we can't even live. Which would mean we couldn't support this."

Kaboomlandia wrote:

Bordav wrote:By "here" I meant Bordav. And by stage I meant unknown to my civilization. I am by no reason being racist, I respect you all.

Well, compliance is mandatory for all nations of the WA, so anything you hypothetically were to pass affects nearly 20,000 other nations.

My point is I am not being offensive. I am by no was egocentric.

Bordav wrote:

Ferret Civilization wrote:
"Yes I just pulled that logic out of my ass thank you very much. The plants needed to feed animals, especially herbivores, are less draining on the soil, and can be grown with more yield then with trying to grow food that supply the protein carnivores need."

Actually they are usually the same plants an 16x more need to be grown for animals.

OOC: Where are you getting these numbers from?

IC: Ambassador Key sits quietly in his office, eating a cheeseburger.

Even saying "Universal Vegetarianism" should probably be illegal.