[PASSED] International Aero-Space Administration

[Auricium]

Thanks. I can't find the original list of rules...(with the numbers and stuff... was there one? )

[Imperium Anglorum]

Thanks. I can't find the original list of rules...(with the numbers and stuff... was there one? )

It's pinned at to the top of the forum. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348

[Auricium]

Thanks! I just figured there was one that numbered them.

[Whovian Tardisia]

*Ambassadors IBS kicks in. Runs over to the office nearest the 3rd floor women's restroom and sits on the trash can*

Sigh. Does the good ambassador wish to do literally to the offices of the WA what they have already succeeded in doing metaphorically?

[Auricium]

Please don't bring that up ever again. I don't want to be reminded.

Also, when does this thing go up so I can approve of it?

[Imperium Anglorum]

Please don't bring that up ever again. I don't want to be reminded.

Also, when does this thing go up so I can approve of it?

After the WSA is repealed, since if you put it up now, that's a duplication violation of the being-repealed WSA.

[Separatist Peoples]

Please don't bring that up ever again. I don't want to be reminded.

Also, when does this thing go up so I can approve of it?

After the WSA is repealed, since if you put it up now, that's a duplication violation of the being-repealed WSA.

OOC: When I'm done with my law school prep tomorrow, I'm going to do a major update. It won't go straight to the floor after this vote, or likely even straight to submission, but the sooner the better with that blocker, yeah?

[Auricium]

After the WSA is repealed, since if you put it up now, that's a duplication violation of the being-repealed WSA.

OOC: When I'm done with my law school prep tomorrow, I'm going to do a major update. It won't go straight to the floor after this vote, or likely even straight to submission, but the sooner the better with that blocker, yeah?

I think so, would it be possible to have someone do it for you?

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: When I'm done with my law school prep tomorrow, I'm going to do a major update. It won't go straight to the floor after this vote, or likely even straight to submission, but the sooner the better with that blocker, yeah?

I think so, would it be possible to have someone do it for you?

OOC: I do not give my permission for anybody to submit this on my behalf. Let the record reflect that if somebody tries.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Reviving this as long as there is any chance of a WSA repeat.

[Wallenburg]

Education and Creativity | Education

"Nothing in this draft deals with education, Ambassador."

Recognizing space as the final frontier;

"I imagine many spacefaring civilizations would disagree."

Believing international cooperation to be the only way to truly develop space science research, and;

"Wallenburgians have studied the cosmos for centuries without any international cooperation."
Seeking to remedy the significant shortcomings of preceding attempts,

Requires member states engaging in nonmilitary space launches expected to, or with the possibility of, crossing into either international or foreign national air or space to liaise with IASA and the IMO to coordinate flight plans to avoid conflict, collision, or other unintended risk to other space programs or launches;

"Absolutely not. We won't have every future scientific endeavor into space hindered by some dreadful committee. I imagine centrally planned spacefaring nations would oppose this even more strongly."
Strongly encourages member states to share their research with IASA, for the betterment of all scientific development;

"We may eventually support this, Ambassador, but it needs a lot of work."

[Separatist Peoples]

Education and Creativity | Education

"Nothing in this draft deals with education, Ambassador."

"Its strongest requirements deal with the creation of a committee that is dedicated to, primarily, sharing research. This is, traditionally, an Education and Creativity resolution."

Recognizing space as the final frontier;

"I imagine many spacefaring civilizations would disagree."

"They are welcome to. Its a fluffy preambulatory clause designed to reference science fiction. The joke has just whistled over your head."

Believing international cooperation to be the only way to truly develop space science research, and;

"Wallenburgians have studied the cosmos for centuries without any international cooperation."

"Congratulations. Would you like a cookie? Its fluff."

Seeking to remedy the significant shortcomings of preceding attempts,

Requires member states engaging in nonmilitary space launches expected to, or with the possibility of, crossing into either international or foreign national air or space to liaise with IASA and the IMO to coordinate flight plans to avoid conflict, collision, or other unintended risk to other space programs or launches;

"Absolutely not. We won't have every future scientific endeavor into space hindered by some dreadful committee. I imagine centrally planned spacefaring nations would oppose this even more strongly."

"Oppose what, liasing with two international agencies when launching spacecraft into territory that is not their own? Bully for them. This doesn't even require a nation cooperate, simply liase with the administrations. For Odin's sake, its a bloody blocker, designed to do as little as possible."

"We may eventually support this, Ambassador, but it needs a lot of work."

"And we may eventually hold our breath on that, ambassador."

[Wallenburg]

"Nothing in this draft deals with education, Ambassador."

"Its strongest requirements deal with the creation of a committee that is dedicated to, primarily, sharing research. This is, traditionally, an Education and Creativity resolution."

Ogenbond grumbles something about inadequate categories.

"I imagine many spacefaring civilizations would disagree."

"They are welcome to. Its a fluffy preambulatory clause designed to reference science fiction. The joke has just whistled over your head."

"Wallenburgians have studied the cosmos for centuries without any international cooperation."

"Congratulations. Would you like a cookie? Its fluff."

"Ambassador, that the clauses are preambulatory doesn't mitigate their being completely incorrect."

Seeking to remedy the significant shortcomings of preceding attempts,

"Absolutely not. We won't have every future scientific endeavor into space hindered by some dreadful committee. I imagine centrally planned spacefaring nations would oppose this even more strongly."

"Oppose what, liasing with two international agencies when launching spacecraft into territory that is not their own? Bully for them. This doesn't even require a nation cooperate, simply liase with the administrations.

"What territory? Air is not territory, Ambassador."

For Odin's sake, its a bloody blocker, designed to do as little as possible."

"I'm aware it is a blocker. That doesn't lower my expectations."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Ambassador, that the clauses are preambulatory doesn't mitigate their being completely incorrect."

"Both are opinions expressed from the point of view of the World Assembly. They are subjective, and cannot be factually incorrect. You are welcome to disagree with them."

"What territory? Air is not territory, Ambassador."

"Yes, it rather is. Especially when claimed by a power. This kind of semantics is entirely unhelpful and bordering on pedantic. Airspace is territory in a legal sense, and the term contextually refers to airspace, even though the colloquial term "air" is used. Spelling it out in its entirety sound silly: "...crossing into either international or foreign national airspace or space...". The duplication of the word "space" in so short a timeframe is bad writing.

"I'm aware it is a blocker. That doesn't lower my expectations."

Bell checks the World Assembly roster for Delegate Endorsements, then double checks the current At-Vote resolution vote count.

"Okay."

[Wallenburg]

"Ambassador, that the clauses are preambulatory doesn't mitigate their being completely incorrect."

"Both are opinions expressed from the point of view of the World Assembly. They are subjective, and cannot be factually incorrect. You are welcome to disagree with them."

"So if someone passes a resolution with a preambulatory clause asserting that cheese is a vegetable, that is not factually incorrect?"

"What territory? Air is not territory, Ambassador."

"Yes, it rather is. Especially when claimed by a power. This kind of semantics is entirely unhelpful and bordering on pedantic. Airspace is territory in a legal sense, and the term contextually refers to airspace, even though the colloquial term "air" is used. Spelling it out in its entirety sound silly: "...crossing into either international or foreign national airspace or space...". The duplication of the word "space" in so short a timeframe is bad writing.

"Using words incorrectly is less helpful than using them as they are defined."

"I'm aware it is a blocker. That doesn't lower my expectations."

Bell checks the World Assembly roster for Delegate Endorsements, then double checks the current At-Vote resolution vote count.

"Okay."

"Are you implying that you don't have to listen to anyone whose vote count will not single-handedly cripple your proposal's chances at vote? Because that's the message I am getting."

[Separatist Peoples]

"So if someone passes a resolution with a preambulatory clause asserting that cheese is a vegetable, that is not factually incorrect?"

"Nope, that can be objectively proven. Believing something to be the final frontier is a subjective opinion. As is considering the only way to truly explore a frontier to be through international cooperation. Neither is an objective truth, especially the bits preceded by "believing", an inherently subjective action, and the part qualified by the term "truly" which has colloquial subjective implications when used in a statement. Would you care to try again?"

"Using words incorrectly is less helpful than using them as they are defined."

"I'm rather sure. However, since I substituted "Airspace" with "Air", and not something unintelligible like "suspension bridge", I have confidence in the voters to grok my meaning without hurting themselves."

"Are you implying that you don't have to listen to anyone whose vote count will not single-handedly cripple your proposal's chances at vote? Because that's the message I am getting."

"I just said "Okay", ambassador. You decided to take it that way. But, for the record, I am not implying you that your opinion doesn't count because of your voting bloc. I am implying that there is only so much sanctimonious griping about nebulous, undefined standards I'm willing to put up with to secure five votes. When you have some substantive standards, like Parsons often does, to hold my proposal up against, I will happily consider them and make my decision hence. He, at least, is very clear about what formatting is offensive to him. All I have to draw off of with you is some vague whining about contextual language.

"If the Ovybian ambassador made a comment to you about your reproductive health education law not being up to their standards, you would hardly bend over backwards to accommodate them, but if they came to you with specific, objective details needing correction, you would listen. Consider us in a similar situation, Ogenbond."

[Imperium Anglorum]

I am implying that there is only so much sanctimonious griping about nebulous, undefined standards I'm willing to put up with to secure five votes. When you have some substantive standards, like Parsons often does, to hold my proposal up against, I will happily consider them and make my decision hence. He, at least, is very clear about what formatting is offensive to him.

Parsons smiles and says, 'Cheers. Though, I believe I made my opinion on this subject clear some time ago. We simply don't need an international organisation to coordinate this kind of thing when there are private fleets and public militaries already patrolling territory in space'.

OOC: Though, I must say, I'm not a fan of the italicised prefatory clauses, the list use without defining numbers, and the 'hereby' followed with 'further' construction. I think it could really be a lot clearer and much less spaghetti code (only words I can think of to describe it, something like defining and punching through exceptions everywhere).

EDIT: I'd put it something like the following. I am, however, somewhat concerned about how § 6 may be misconstrued as broader than it would be. Much thought ought to be put into that clause before a final decision is made. It could adversely affect the ability of the World Assembly to control things like space debris, if current legislation on the topic were to be repealed.

Code: Select all

Recognizing space as the final frontier,

Glorifying the spirit of exploration and curiosity that drives us to boldly go where no one has gone before,

Believing international cooperation to be the only way to truly develop space science research, and

Seeking to remedy the significant shortcomings of preceding attempts,

The World Assembly hereby:

1. Establishes the International Aerospace Administration (IAA) and empowers it with the following mandate to:

[list=a][*]coordinate and publish public not-for-profit research in the field of space exploration, aerospace science and engineering, as well as other disciplines related to the pursuit of space science,


[*]liaise with the WA Scientific Programme and the Universal Library Coalition on the coordination and publication of unclassified research and development related to the disciplines of aerospace research and space exploration,


[*]further liaise with the International Meteorological Organisation (IMO) regarding coordination and safety considerations involved with terrestrial space launches and possibilities of space weather,


[*]provide, upon request, technical assistance to develop and build civilian space programs in member nations by sharing technical, organizational, and administrative data with the intention of providing fledgling space programs the information necessary to reach non-military goals,


[*]research and disseminate best management and administration practices regarding safety in space exploration and research, and


[*]act as an intermediary, upon request, for international cooperation on joint space programs;[/list]

2. Requires member states engaging in nonmilitary space launches expected to crossing into international or foreign territory to liaise with the IAA and the IMO to coordinate flight plans to avoid conflict, collision, or other unintended risks to other space programs or launches;

3. Strongly encourages member states to share their research with the IAA for the betterment of all scientific development; and

4. Reserves authority over domestic space programs entirely to their national jurisdictions and renounces henceforth any direct authority over domestic space programs or their operations, subject to the immunities of extant international law.

[Wallenburg]

"So if someone passes a resolution with a preambulatory clause asserting that cheese is a vegetable, that is not factually incorrect?"

"Nope, that can be objectively proven. Believing something to be the final frontier is a subjective opinion. As is considering the only way to truly explore a frontier to be through international cooperation. Neither is an objective truth, especially the bits preceded by "believing", an inherently subjective action, and the part qualified by the term "truly" which has colloquial subjective implications when used in a statement. Would you care to try again?"

"By that standard, the two clauses in question can be approached objectively. Spacefaring civilizations that have already explored the cosmos most certainly have more to explore. Hell, many spacefaring civilizations still have yet to fully explore their own homeworlds. And I have demonstrated to you that Wallenburg itself is an example of a nation that has not needed international cooperation to study space. If such a nation exists, as it does, that clause's assertion is clearly and undeniably false."

"Using words incorrectly is less helpful than using them as they are defined."

"I'm rather sure. However, since I substituted "Airspace" with "Air", and not something unintelligible like "suspension bridge", I have confidence in the voters to grok my meaning without hurting themselves."

"'Air' and 'airspace' are two very different terms, Ambassador."

"Are you implying that you don't have to listen to anyone whose vote count will not single-handedly cripple your proposal's chances at vote? Because that's the message I am getting."

"I just said "Okay", ambassador. You decided to take it that way. But, for the record, I am not implying you that your opinion doesn't count because of your voting bloc.

"What else am I supposed to gather from you going over voting numbers, then? I can't think of any other reason to do so at such a time."

I am implying that there is only so much sanctimonious griping about nebulous, undefined standards I'm willing to put up with to secure five votes. When you have some substantive standards, like Parsons often does, to hold my proposal up against, I will happily consider them and make my decision hence. He, at least, is very clear about what formatting is offensive to him. All I have to draw off of with you is some vague whining about contextual language."

"I am quite clear about my expectations as well, Ambassador, and I do not carry on about unsubstantial arguments. I have better things to do than waste my time. That you don't appreciate the importance of word choice in legal documents is your own fault. It is not any fault in myself."

[Imperium Anglorum]

"Nope, that can be objectively proven. Believing something to be the final frontier is a subjective opinion. As is considering the only way to truly explore a frontier to be through international cooperation. Neither is an objective truth, especially the bits preceded by "believing", an inherently subjective action, and the part qualified by the term "truly" which has colloquial subjective implications when used in a statement. Would you care to try again?"

"By that standard, the two clauses in question can be approached objectively. Spacefaring civilizations that have already explored the cosmos most certainly have more to explore. Hell, many spacefaring civilizations still have yet to fully explore their own homeworlds. And I have demonstrated to you that Wallenburg itself is an example of a nation that has not needed international cooperation to study space. If such a nation exists, as it does, that clause's assertion is clearly and undeniably false."

Parsons: Considering that this clause is there to reference a television show which is widely seen around the world, not just in the Confederate Dominion or my own nation, I have no problems with it.

[Wallenburg]

"By that standard, the two clauses in question can be approached objectively. Spacefaring civilizations that have already explored the cosmos most certainly have more to explore. Hell, many spacefaring civilizations still have yet to fully explore their own homeworlds. And I have demonstrated to you that Wallenburg itself is an example of a nation that has not needed international cooperation to study space. If such a nation exists, as it does, that clause's assertion is clearly and undeniably false."

Parsons: Considering that this clause is there to reference a television show which is widely seen around the world, not just in the Confederate Dominion or my own nation, I have no problems with it.

"Ambassador, forgive me, but I doubt that any person on my planet would ever understand whatever reference that clause is making. I myself do not get it."

[Separatist Peoples]

"By that standard, the two clauses in question can be approached objectively. Spacefaring civilizations that have already explored the cosmos most certainly have more to explore. Hell, many spacefaring civilizations still have yet to fully explore their own homeworlds. And I have demonstrated to you that Wallenburg itself is an example of a nation that has not needed international cooperation to study space. If such a nation exists, as it does, that clause's assertion is clearly and undeniably false."

"Then, clearly, the implication is that the World Assembly does not believe that such exploration is sufficiently complete, as it was not a multinational approach. Fortunately, since the World Assembly is not requiring a multinational exploration effort, but attempting to open nonclassified research to all nations so that individuals of different backgrounds can apply their own unique worldview, this satisfies the World Assembly's opinion in a nonoperational clause without offering any significant onus. I'm not changing it."

"'Air' and 'airspace' are two very different terms, Ambassador."

"Thank Odin for context, which makes it clear."

"I am quite clear about my expectations as well, Ambassador, and I do not carry on about unsubstantial arguments. I have better things to do than waste my time. That you don't appreciate the importance of word choice in legal documents is your own fault. It is not any fault in myself."

OOC: Particularly amusing to me, considering our comparative educations.
IC: "I'll file that away with the experience I have passing nine other resolutions, ambassador. many of which had contextual language. Is that all?"

[Wallenburg]

"By that standard, the two clauses in question can be approached objectively. Spacefaring civilizations that have already explored the cosmos most certainly have more to explore. Hell, many spacefaring civilizations still have yet to fully explore their own homeworlds. And I have demonstrated to you that Wallenburg itself is an example of a nation that has not needed international cooperation to study space. If such a nation exists, as it does, that clause's assertion is clearly and undeniably false."

"Then, clearly, the implication is that the World Assembly does not believe that such exploration is sufficiently complete, as it was not a multinational approach. Fortunately, since the World Assembly is not requiring a multinational exploration effort, but attempting to open nonclassified research to all nations so that individuals of different backgrounds can apply their own unique worldview, this satisfies the World Assembly's opinion in a nonoperational clause without offering any significant onus. I'm not changing it."

"Then I'm not changing my stance."

"'Air' and 'airspace' are two very different terms, Ambassador."

"Thank Odin for context, which makes it clear."

"Ambassador, have you not heard of creative compliance? Every misapplied word opens up potential loopholes."

"I am quite clear about my expectations as well, Ambassador, and I do not carry on about unsubstantial arguments. I have better things to do than waste my time. That you don't appreciate the importance of word choice in legal documents is your own fault. It is not any fault in myself."

OOC: Particularly amusing to me, considering our comparative educations.

OOC: SP, I encourage you not to make this personal, or to go off on any saber-rattling shit.

IC: "I'll file that away with the experience I have passing nine other resolutions, ambassador. many of which had contextual language. Is that all?"

"No, not quite. If you feel the need to cite your experience rather than defend your position, you are only demonstrating that you have nothing substantial left to say."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Then I'm not changing my stance."

"Okay."

"Ambassador, have you not heard of creative compliance? Every misapplied word opens up potential loopholes."

"Thank Odin for those good-faith requirements."

OOC: SP, I encourage you not to make this personal, or to go off on any saber-rattling shit.

OOC: Hardly. I may be a lowly 1L student, but I still put my education into my writing. Criticizing me, IC or OOC, of poor legal writing is very funny to me.

"No, not quite. If you feel the need to cite your experience rather than defend your position, you are only demonstrating that you have nothing substantial left to say."

"You're quite right. Which is why, in addition to my experience, I've also responded with counterarguments based on the text. To which you replied with Jarish Inyoan responses. I am electing not to engage obstructionist criticism. If you feel my rebuttal is not substantive, that is your prerogative. I believe I've made it pretty clear exactly how much effort I am going to spent debating with an intractable, nitpicking opponent who will not make or break my proposal. Thank you, ambassador, for your input. Is there anybody else who would like to take exception with my use of "air" as opposed to "airspace" in the current context?"

[Imperium Anglorum]

Thank you, ambassador, for your input. Is there anybody else who would like to take exception with my use of "air" as opposed to "airspace" in the current context?"

Parsons: I pretty much don't care for this proposal, but am offering drafting help due to nothing more than historic friendship — you could just use 'territory'.

OOC: Also, I did some edits above. May want to see them. I know it got buried under this nitpick.

[Separatist Peoples]

Thank you, ambassador, for your input. Is there anybody else who would like to take exception with my use of "air" as opposed to "airspace" in the current context?"

Parsons: I pretty much don't care for this proposal, but am offering drafting help due to nothing more than historic friendship — you could just use 'territory'.

OOC: Also, I did some edits above. May want to see them. I know it got buried under this nitpick.

"Now, that is a specific suggestion that I can use, and solves the problem without devolving into nitpicking. Thank you."

I am implying that there is only so much sanctimonious griping about nebulous, undefined standards I'm willing to put up with to secure five votes. When you have some substantive standards, like Parsons often does, to hold my proposal up against, I will happily consider them and make my decision hence. He, at least, is very clear about what formatting is offensive to him.

Parsons smiles and says, 'Cheers. Though, I believe I made my opinion on this subject clear some time ago. We simply don't need an international organisation to coordinate this kind of thing when there are private fleets and public militaries already patrolling territory in space'.

OOC: Though, I must say, I'm not a fan of the italicised prefatory clauses, the list use without defining numbers, and the 'hereby' followed with 'further' construction. I think it could really be a lot clearer and much less spaghetti code (only words I can think of to describe it, something like defining and punching through exceptions everywhere).

EDIT: I'd put it something like the following. I am, however, somewhat concerned about how § 6 may be misconstrued as broader than it would be. Much thought ought to be put into that clause before a final decision is made. It could adversely affect the ability of the World Assembly to control things like space debris, if current legislation on the topic were to be repealed.

Code: Select all

Recognizing space as the final frontier,

Glorifying the spirit of exploration and curiosity that drives us to boldly go where no one has gone before,

Believing international cooperation to be the only way to truly develop space science research, and

Seeking to remedy the significant shortcomings of preceding attempts,

The World Assembly hereby:

1. Establishes the International Aerospace Administration (IAA) and empowers it with the following mandate to:

[list=a][*]coordinate and publish public not-for-profit research in the field of space exploration, aerospace science and engineering, as well as other disciplines related to the pursuit of space science,


[*]liaise with the WA Scientific Programme and the Universal Library Coalition on the coordination and publication of unclassified research and development related to the disciplines of aerospace research and space exploration,


[*]further liaise with the International Meteorological Organisation (IMO) regarding coordination and safety considerations involved with terrestrial space launches and possibilities of space weather,


[*]provide, upon request, technical assistance to develop and build civilian space programs in member nations by sharing technical, organizational, and administrative data with the intention of providing fledgling space programs the information necessary to reach non-military goals,


[*]research and disseminate best management and administration practices regarding safety in space exploration and research, and


[*]act as an intermediary, upon request, for international cooperation on joint space programs;[/list]

2. Requires member states engaging in nonmilitary space launches expected to crossing into international or foreign territory to liaise with the IAA and the IMO to coordinate flight plans to avoid conflict, collision, or other unintended risks to other space programs or launches;

3. Strongly encourages member states to share their research with the IAA for the betterment of all scientific development; and

4. Reserves authority over domestic space programs entirely to their national jurisdictions and renounces henceforth any direct authority over domestic space programs or their operations, subject to the immunities of extant international law.

"Ordinarily, I'd agree, but the WSA, and this new WASA attempt, prove that attempts are going to be made until something actively blocks it. The issue of collisions or damage to terrestrial property is absolutely an international one, and it neatly blocks future WSA bullshit. I should hope we could expect your support if only to prevent future travesties, especially considering the incredibly inoffensive requirements states actually have to obey. Quite literally, all that is being done is a comparison of flight itineraries to prevent collisions. There is no other regulation.

OOC: I'm not sure this blocks future debris legislation, though. Authority over operations are being reserved to member states. Future safety precautions would, theoretically, not require surrendering member state's authority. ALso, I can't say I am seeing exceptions all over. I have redesigned the format to be a little smoother, but I think I like the current unnumbered format.