[VOTE NOW-SUBMITTED] On Palm Oil

[The Dark Star Republic]

Status: Lacking Support (requires 2 more approvals)

Voting Ends: now

"Never mind. Nothing to fear here. If the author wants to make another go of it with some less ultra-specific topic in mind, I'd be happy to weigh in. Banning a single type of vegetative oil for such a limited reason just makes no sense to me."

OOC: Since the update has already run, he still has until next update to make those 2 approvals.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Never mind. Nothing to fear here. If the author wants to make another go of it with some less ultra-specific topic in mind, I'd be happy to weigh in. Banning a single type of vegetative oil for such a limited reason just makes no sense to me."

OOC: Since the update has already run, he still has until next update to make those 2 approvals.

OOC: Is that how it works? I thought it was just behind in the update based on the server he was using. If thats so, why does it list "now"?

[Estenia]

"Hmm, intresting proposal. But do you know what could it make it more intresting, introducing the alternatives to all of us. Alas, we shall vote for this proposal."
-Andrei Ovchenko, WA Represantative on Enviromental Issues.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Since the update has already run, he still has until next update to make those 2 approvals.

OOC: Is that how it works? I thought it was just behind in the update based on the server he was using. If thats so, why does it list "now"?

OOC: Proposals time out at the very beginning of update: if you're ever online when update starts, you'll see proposals timing out as the very first thing that happens, before any delegate changeovers start happening. When the update hit, the proposal had made quorum. During the update, it lost 2 approvals (either because people unapproved it, or because approvers lost delegate status, or because the number of regions grew and thus the quorum threshold increased). So although voting ends "now", that won't be processed until the next update.

This happened ages ago with a proposal we were campaigning against, and managed to knock it down below quorum only for it to return to quorum later. Can't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure this is how the process works.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

Status: Lacking Support (requires 2 more approvals)

Voting Ends: now

"Never mind. Nothing to fear here. If the author wants to make another go of it with some less ultra-specific topic in mind, I'd be happy to weigh in. Banning a single type of vegetative oil for such a limited reason just makes no sense to me."

"It can still reach quorum. Such a limited reason? The dense clouds of pollution which sweeps across international borders? The mass deaths and extinctions of animals such as orangutangs? The mass forced relocation of local residents/people? The overwhelming presence of illegal palm oil plantations, allowed to operate by a corrupt local government? The mass destruction of millions of hectares of rainforests destroyed each year just for palm oil?"

"Are those limited reasons? I think not. And if the nations and regions of the world wish for these practices to stop; they should endorse my proposal; On Palm Oil."

[Defwa]

Really, Defwa is supportive of environmental legislation but we'd much rather see requirements for safe harvesting instead of an outright ban.
Palm oil is not so evil as to deserve universal prohibition.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

"Hmm, intresting proposal. But do you know what could it make it more intresting, introducing the alternatives to all of us. Alas, we shall vote for this proposal."
-Andrei Ovchenko, WA Represantative on Enviromental Issues.

"We thank you for your vote! Well, there are many alternatives available. Vegetabke saturated fats such as coconut oil, sal oil, illipe oil, mango oil, cocoa butter, shea butter, and of course butter. And there are many unsaturated fats which can fulfil the same purposes, such as rapeseed oil, soya oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, grapeseed oil, olive oil, etc. As you can see there are many affordable, plentiful alternatives to palm oil; which do not have such detrimental effects.",

George Polo- WA Representative for The British Empire Strikes Back

[British Empire Strikes Back]

Really, Defwa is supportive of environmental legislation but we'd much rather see requirements for safe harvesting instead of an outright ban.
Palm oil is not so evil as to deserve universal prohibition.

"Yes it is! There is no way to ensure sustainable cultivation and harvesting of palm oil. The majority of "sustainable palm oil", in fact comes from illegal farms which operate in the same manner as other illegal farms. There is no method to fully ensure that all palm oil is cultivated sustainably."

[Kaboomlandia]

Status: Lacking Support (requires 1 more approval)

Voting Ends: now

[British Empire Strikes Back]

"Never mind. Nothing to fear here. If the author wants to make another go of it with some less ultra-specific topic in mind, I'd be happy to weigh in. Banning a single type of vegetative oil for such a limited reason just makes no sense to me."

OOC: Since the update has already run, he still has until next update to make those 2 approvals.

OOC: When is the next update?

[Separatist Peoples]

"Never mind. Nothing to fear here. If the author wants to make another go of it with some less ultra-specific topic in mind, I'd be happy to weigh in. Banning a single type of vegetative oil for such a limited reason just makes no sense to me."

"It can still reach quorum. Such a limited reason? The dense clouds of pollution which sweeps across international borders? The mass deaths and extinctions of animals such as orangutangs? The mass forced relocation of local residents/people? The overwhelming presence of illegal palm oil plantations, allowed to operate by a corrupt local government? The mass destruction of millions of hectares of rainforests destroyed each year just for palm oil?"

"Are those limited reasons? I think not. And if the nations and regions of the world wish for these practices to stop; they should endorse my proposal; On Palm Oil."

"You have failed entirely to make any argument supporting this "dense cloud of pollution" claim. Last I checked, harvesting natural resources didn't magically create plumes of toxic fumes. Unsubstantiated claim is unsubstantiated.

"There are plenty of ways one could utilize palm oil harvesting without killing off, what did you call them? Orange Utangs? Never heard of 'em. Silvacultural harvesting is a viable option, especially for quick-growing species in decent climates.

"I've no idea why you assume that every nation harvesting palm oil is somehow engaging in forced relocation and corrupt governments. That is pure speculation. Whether a plantation is legal or not rather depends on the locality, so the scary use of "ILLEGAL" is really ineffective.

"Finally, that "save the rainforests!" thing would work better if there weren't so very many ways to destroy it other than palm oil harvesting. Hell, we have rainforests in our southernmost borders. It faces no risk of destruction from palm harvesting, but saltwater inundation.

"No, your proposal shows only the smallest possible understanding of the process by which conservation efforts work and, really, how the world works. That it has made it this far is nothing short of pure luck and stamp-happy delegates."

[British Empire Strikes Back]

We only need one more endorsement! Endorse it here: http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=british_empire_strikes_back_1429417406

[Kaboomlandia]

OOC: Since the update has already run, he still has until next update to make those 2 approvals.

OOC: When is the next update?

Midnight EST.

[Myroria]

You have an unclosed bracket at the end of your submission. Does this mean that every resolution passed after this one is technically a rider at the end of your own? We'll have to add a closing bracket to the beginning of the next resolution in queue to prevent that, I suppose.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

(Via Forbes)

To the growing list of human behavior causing pollution and climate change, you can add one more: unsustainable production of palm oil, needed for multiple consumer products from deodorants and toothpastes to cookies and chocolates.

The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nonprofit science advocacy organization based in Cambridge, Mass., in a report says air pollution in South East Asia, including the infamous and debilitating haze that can grip the region, is caused by, amongst other things, unsustainable practices like deforestation, landscape fires and draining peatlands.

“Now that palm oil is a common ingredient in everything from muffins to moisturizers, the demand for palm oil is increasing,” said Lael Goodman, analyst for the Tropical Forest and Climate Initiative and author of the report. ”In the scramble to meet demand, some oil palm plantations are using practices that contribute to climate change, endanger human health and weaken the economy. Ultimately, these unsustainable practices are making a lot of people sick.”

Oil palm plantations contribute significantly to deforestation in Southeast Asia, together with logging and the production of other agricultural commodities. In Indonesia, for example, more than 3,800 square miles (10,000 square kilometers)— an area the twice the size of Delaware—were deforested for oil palm cultivation between 2000 and 2010, the report says. With land at a premium, growers are increasingly cultivating oil palm on peatlands. These swampy soils have high water tables and store significant amounts of carbon. To develop peatlands, the land must be drained, releasing the carbon and contributing to climate change, the report says. The dried peat then becomes highly flammable. Fires set on peatland can burn on the surface and underground. Once a sub-surface fire is ignited, the fire can burn horizontally – at times without burning the surface. Due to its flammable nature, peat fires can burn for weeks, months or even years, the report says.


The problems is that in Southeast Asia fire is a common method to clear agricultural land and to eliminate debris to set up oil palm plantations, pulp and paper plantations, and other crops, the report says. Every year, these fires blaze out of control during the dry season, and flames engulf plantations, forests, and, increasingly, huge swaths of drained peatlands. Summer in Southeast Asia means thick clouds of toxic air that result from landscape fires, with the haze blanketing vast areas and neighborhoods, and endangering the health of the locals, says Goodman. Smoke and haze blanket the region, sometimes for weeks at a time. Heavy haze has grounded aircraft, hindered tourism, and shut down schools and businesses. And then there are the health effects ranging from skin and eye irritation to decreased lung function and respiratory issues to cancer and even death. All told, exposure to particulate matter from these fires claims 110,000 lives in Southeast Asia each year, the report says.

During the worst haze event in recent history, fires started in Indonesia in 1997 produced haze that spread into Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, the Philippines and even Thailand. Between 60 percent and 80 percent of the haze from this event was the result of fires on peatlands and it lasted for several weeks, the report says.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

You have an unclosed bracket at the end of your submission. Does this mean that every resolution passed after this one is technically a rider at the end of your own? We'll have to add a closing bracket to the beginning of the next resolution in queue to prevent that, I suppose.

No, it was an accident.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Yeah, BESB, Nationstates is not the Real World. There is no Cambridge, Massachusetts, no Brazilian rainforest, no Forbes magazine, no George Bush or Barrack Obama or Adolph Hitler. Real world studies and articles aren't very useful.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

OOC: When is the next update?

Midnight EST.

Thank you.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

OOC: Yeah, BESB, Nationstates is not the Real World. There is no Cambridge, Massachusetts, no Brazilian rainforest, no Forbes magazine, no George Bush or Barrack Obama or Adolph Hitler. Real world studies and articles aren't very useful.

OOC: They are more useful than your prior conjecture and speculation.

[Defwa]

OOC: NS is not real life. While in the real world people can ignore regulations on agriculture, members of the WA can not. And if you're so worried about people disobeying regulation, create a regulatory body to monitor and certify farms and ban sale of uncertified goods.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Yeah, BESB, Nationstates is not the Real World. There is no Cambridge, Massachusetts, no Brazilian rainforest, no Forbes magazine, no George Bush or Barrack Obama or Adolph Hitler. Real world studies and articles aren't very useful.

OOC: They are more useful than your prior conjecture and speculation.

OOC: Right. Having passed resolutions and participated since 2011 on this nation alone gives me no possible experience whatsoever. Your proposal doesn't address numerous other threats to rainforest systems, which makes it limited in scope and ineffective at it's final goal: protecting rainforests. It fails to take into account that endangered and threatened species are already granted protection from habitat loss via existing laws. And it fails entirely to take into account silvacultural methods that allow nations to harvest palm oil without risking serious environmental degradation to rainforest biomes. Frankly, its crap, and closing your eyes and screaming "LALALALALA!!!!!" won't fix it.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

OOC: NS is not real life. While in the real world people can ignore regulations on agriculture, members of the WA can not. And if you're so worried about people disobeying regulation, create a regulatory body to monitor and certify farms and ban sale of uncertified goods.

OOC: I now NS is not real life, but what am I suppose to quote, The British Empire Strikes Back Times?

[British Empire Strikes Back]

OOC: They are more useful than your prior conjecture and speculation.

OOC: Right. Having passed resolutions and participated since 2011 on this nation alone gives me no possible experience whatsoever. Your proposal doesn't address numerous other threats to rainforest systems, which makes it limited in scope and ineffective at it's final goal: protecting rainforests. It fails to take into account that endangered and threatened species are already granted protection from habitat loss via existing laws. And it fails entirely to take into account silvacultural methods that allow nations to harvest palm oil without risking serious environmental degradation to rainforest biomes. Frankly, its crap, and closing your eyes and screaming "LALALALALA!!!!!" won't fix it.

OOC: I have been on NationStates since 2005, with my previous accounts. The length of time you have been on here, and the resolutions you have passed are irrelevant to this matter. I never said you don't have any experience, rather I said that your prior posts on this thread were conjecture and speculation.

Furthermore, despite endangered speckes being grant certain protections from national government; the local governments in these nations can be corrupt, or they can disobey the national government and illegally cultivate palm oil. The proposal is not crap, and I am not closing my eyes and screaming "LALALALALA!!!!", rather I am trying to make a positive change in regulation via The World Assembly, and I hope other nations and delegates of the world realise that and endorse my proposal.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I have been on NationStates since 2005, with my previous accounts. The length of time you have been on here, and the resolutions you have passed are irrelevant to this matter. I never said you don't have any experience, rather I said that your prior posts on this thread were conjecture and speculation.

Furthermore, despite endangered speckes being grant certain protections from national government; the local governments in these nations can be corrupt, or they can disobey the national government and illegally cultivate palm oil. The proposal is not crap, and I am not closing my eyes and screaming "LALALALALA!!!!", rather I am trying to make a positive change in regulation via The World Assembly, and I hope other nations and delegates of the world realise that and endorse my proposal.

OOC: You're doing a terrible job it. There is no law against palm oil cultivation, so it cannot be illegal at the moment. If it becomes illegal based on this passing, which is incredibly unlikely, noncompliance from member nations won't be an issue, as compliance is considered more or less mandatory.

Beyond that, your proposal flat out ignores other alternative methods of harvesting palm oil, and will make nearly no impact on the health of rainforests, as there is still nothing stopping nations from other unsustainable practices. All this does is restrict use of a product tangentially. You refuse to even acknowledge this as a problem, let alone pursue the obvious solution, which is a massive redraft. How is that not screwing shut your eyes and screaming "LALALA"?

[Defwa]

OOC: NS is not real life. While in the real world people can ignore regulations on agriculture, members of the WA can not. And if you're so worried about people disobeying regulation, create a regulatory body to monitor and certify farms and ban sale of uncertified goods.

OOC: I now NS is not real life, but what am I suppose to quote, The British Empire Strikes Back Times?

OOC: simply put, you don't. Real life examples don't hold up in a universe limited only by imagination.