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[PASSED] Anti-Counterfeiting Pact

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

If you add ham to grilled cheese, what do you call it?

Grilled cheese with ham
29
34%
Grilled ham and cheese sandwich
30
35%
An abomination
27
31%
 
Total votes : 86

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Separatist Peoples
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[PASSED] Anti-Counterfeiting Pact

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:49 am

"So...I hate to do this, since its a concept I wanted to avoid, but I liked my preliminary draft so much...well...I'm sorry, but here:"

Category: International Security | Strength: Mild

Recognizing the negative impact of counterfeit currency operations on nations;

Realizing such actions not only degrade value of and trust in legitimate currency within nations, but also obstruct free trade and damage relations between economic partners;

Determined to protect commerce between nations and foster international goodwill;

Whereas the term “legal tender” shall be defined as “a medium of exchange recognized by a nation or other assigned political division as valid for meeting a financial obligation”;

The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Except in the case of declared war, member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting, and associated commission of counterfeiting, of foreign currency with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue currency or otherwise defraud another member state.

2. Member states in a declared state of war are exempt only to counterfeit the legal tender of those entities with whom a state of declared war exists.

3. The World Assembly Numismatics Authority (WANA) shall be re-established and tasked with creating an investigative framework for the screening, detection, and source-tracking for counterfeit tender. The WANA shall liaise with relevant member state authorities to investigate, coordinate, and disseminate information on both state- and non-state-sanctioned counterfeiting operations.

4. The WANA shall inspect the minting facilities of member states for illicit counterfeiting operations either on request or if there is credible evidence to suggest such an operation’s existence, and issue nonbinding evaluations of a member state’s anti-counterfeiting security.

5. Member states shall take all necessary steps to suppress counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, and shall promptly notify both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited of such incidents.

6. Member states will cooperate with WANA investigations to the fullest extent practicable, including maintaining a single point of contact with the WANA.

7. Member states are required to prosecute those individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.

8. Non-member states voluntarily complying with the responsibilities set forth shall be entitled to equal access to this law’s protections and benefits. Member states shall make no distinction between WANA-compliant non-member states and member states in regard to the provisions set forth in this law, except as required by extant legislation.


Category: Free Trade | Strength: Significant

Recognizing the negative impact of counterfeit currency operations on nations;

Realizing such actions not only degrade value of and trust in legitimate currency within nations, but also obstruct free trade and damage relations between economic partners;

Determined to protect commerce between nations and foster international goodwill;

Whereas the term “legal tender” shall be defined as “a medium of exchange recognized by a nation or other assigned political division as valid for meeting a financial obligation”;

The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Except in the case of declared war, member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue currency or otherwise defraud another member state.

2. Member states in a declared state of war are exempt only to counterfeit the legal tender of those entities with whom a state of declared war exists.

3. The World Assembly Numismatics Authority (WANA) shall be re-established and tasked with creating an investigative framework for the screening, detection, and source-tracking for counterfeit tender. The WANA shall liaise with relevant member state authorities to investigate, coordinate, and disseminate information on both state- and non-state-sanctioned counterfeiting operations.

4. The WANA shall inspect the minting facilities of member states for illicit counterfeiting operations either on request or if there is credible evidence to suggest such an operation’s existence, and issue nonbinding evaluations of a member state’s anti-counterfeiting security.

5. Member states shall take all necessary steps to suppress counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, including the confiscation and/or destruction of counterfeit tender and printing equipment, and shall promptly notify both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited of such incidents.

6. Member states will cooperate with WANA investigations to the fullest extent practicable, including maintaining a single point of contact with the WANA.

7. Member states are required to prosecute those individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.

8. Non-member states voluntarily complying with the responsibilities set forth shall be entitled to equal access to this law’s protections and benefits. Member states shall make no distinction between WANA-compliant non-member states and member states in regard to the provisions set forth in this law, except as required by extant legislation.



Anti-Counterfeiting Pact
Category: Free Trade | Strength: Significant


Recognizing the negative impact of counterfeit currency operations on member states;

Realizing such actions not only degrade value of and trust in currency within nations, but obstruct free trade and damage relations between national economic partners,

Seeking ever to protect commerce between nations and foster international goodwill;
Whereas the term “legal tender” shall be defined as “a medium of exchange recognized by a nation or other assigned political division as valid for meeting a financial obligation”;

The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.

2. The World Assembly Numismatics Authority (WANA) shall be reestablished and tasked with creating an investigative framework for the screening, detection, and source-tracking for counterfeit tender. The WANA shall liaise with relevant member state authorities to investigate, coordinate, and disseminate information on both state- and non-state-sanctioned counterfeiting operations.

3. The WANA shall inspect the minting facilities of member states for counterfeiting operations if there is credible evidence to suggest such an operation’s validity, and issue nonbinding evaluations of a member state’s anti-counterfeiting security.

4. Member states shall take necessary steps to suppress counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, including the confiscation and/or destruction of counterfeit tender and printing equipment, and the prompt notification of both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited.

5. Member states will cooperate with WANA investigations to the fullest extent practicable, including maintaining a single point of contact with the WANA.

6. Member states are required to prosecute those individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.

"Even if this goes nowhere, I view this as an interesting exercise in navigating between the specific currency needs of each nation, barter systems, and what is generally considered contemporary or standard currency, and the issue of counterfeiting. You know, someday I'll have an entirely original idea, instead of seeing a flawed idea and improving upon it...Someday..."
Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:17 am, edited 12 times in total.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:53 am

-Reserved-

"Also, things I would like suggestions on:

Preambulatory clauses. I'm bad at those.

I know I need to include non-state businesses instead of just member states in Clause 1, but I'm finding the wording somewhat illusive.

I resurrected WANA from the Numismatics Appreciation Act. I felt silly doing it, but I prefer to use existing committees, to streamline the WA's budget needs. No sense in giving the General Fund extra if it isn't necessary, eh? If anybody has a better suggestion, well, I'm always open to suggestions."

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Felix Dote
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Postby Felix Dote » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:55 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"So...I hate to do this, since its a concept I wanted to avoid, but I liked my preliminary draft so much...well...I'm sorry, but here:"

Anti-Counterfeiting Pact
Category: Free Trade | Strength: Significant


Recognizing the negative impact of counterfeit currency operations on member states;

Realizing such actions not only degrade value of and trust in currency within nations, but obstruct free trade and damage relations between national economic partners,

Seeking ever to protect commerce between nations and foster international goodwill;
Whereas the term “legal tender” shall be defined as “a medium of exchange recognized by a nation or other assigned political division as valid for meeting a financial obligation”;

The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.

2. The World Assembly Numismatics Authority (WANA) shall be reestablished and tasked with creating an investigative framework for the screening, detection, and source-tracking for counterfeit tender. The WANA shall liaise with relevant member state authorities to investigate, coordinate, and disseminate information on both state- and non-state-sanctioned counterfeiting operations.

3. The WANA shall inspect the minting facilities of member states for counterfeiting operations if there is credible evidence to suggest such an operation’s validity, and issue nonbinding evaluations of a member state’s anti-counterfeiting security.

4. Member states shall take necessary steps to suppress counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, including the confiscation and/or destruction of counterfeit tender and printing equipment, and the prompt notification of both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited.

5. Member states will cooperate with WANA investigations to the fullest extent practicable, including maintaining a single point of contact with the WANA.

6. Member states are required to prosecute those individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.


"Even if this goes nowhere, I view this as an interesting exercise in navigating between the specific currency needs of each nation, barter systems, and what is generally considered contemporary or standard currency, and the issue of counterfeiting. You know, someday I'll have an entirely original idea, instead of seeing a flawed idea and improving upon it...Someday..."


Actually, not a bad idea. What I suggest is that you modify verse 1, to also include local currencies, rather than just foreign ones. Otherwise, good work!

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Postby Araraukar » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:40 am

Felix Dote wrote:Actually, not a bad idea. What I suggest is that you modify verse 1, to also include local currencies, rather than just foreign ones. Otherwise, good work!

Actually, foreign currencies might be what makes it an international issue instead of a domestic one. I'll have a closer look later, Benjamin. Right now too distracted with other things.
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Louisistan
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Postby Louisistan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:50 am

"Doesn't look too bad. As always loving #5. More jobs in the civil service.

Number 4 is a little overdoing it. We have to file a report with WANA every time some teenager gets the stupid idea of trying to print counterfeit money on his ink jet printer?
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:00 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the unauthorized counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market solely to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.
...
4. Member states shall take necessary steps to suppress unauthorized counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, including the confiscation and/or destruction of counterfeit tender and printing equipment, and the prompt notification of both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited.
...
6. Member states are required to prosecute those unauthorized individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.


While we agree heartily with the spirit of this resolution, I'm afraid we'd require a couple of tweaks (of the sort that I fear may torpedo it) to render it worthy of our support. As mentioned in a previous debate on counterfeiting, my government is in the business of printing and distributing counterfeit currency as a humanitarian measure; a means of rendering aid to the poor and destitute of economically primitive and/or oligarchic nations. With these additions (in green), this resolution will allow us to continue our policy of easing the lives of those who can't afford to feed themselves when their elites decide to piss away their nations' wealth on commodity bubbles and other chimeras, while still applying good and necessary measures to beef up the financial security of nations that deserve it are not so slavishly beholden to criminals and inherited asshats to decide how their wealth is distributed.

We're all for stamping out the counterfeiting operations of per se economic warfare (be it by nations or by wildcatters), organized crime and terrorist groups, and simple crooks; but the humanitarian implications of halting our counter-austerity program are gut-wrenching.

Of course, I'm well aware that these additions may be seen to render the resolution toothless; it's not my intent to slaughter it so thoroughly. I'll inquire with my government to ascertain whether we could live with a strong anti-counterfeiting resolution if it continues to explicitly limit its foreign currency protections to fellow WA members; but it is entirely possible we'd still have to stand opposed.
Last edited by Sierra Lyricalia on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wrapper » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:02 am

Interesting, making this about counterfeiting foreign currency rather than all currency. Still... you probably need to address the barter system somehow. Let me put it this way: We use chewing gum as currency. Someone in Bigtopia makes chewing gum. Are they counterfeiting foreign currency?

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Louisistan
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Postby Louisistan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:12 am

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:The World Assembly thusly resolves:

1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the unauthorized counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market solely to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.
...
4. Member states shall take necessary steps to suppress unauthorized counterfeiting operations in their jurisdiction, including the confiscation and/or destruction of counterfeit tender and printing equipment, and the prompt notification of both the WANA and the entity whose tender is being counterfeited.
...
6. Member states are required to prosecute those unauthorized individuals violating the provisions set forth in this law to the same degree that they would prosecute those involved in a comparable domestic counterfeiting operation.


While we agree heartily with the spirit of this resolution, I'm afraid we'd require a couple of tweaks (of the sort that I fear may torpedo it) to render it worthy of our support. As mentioned in a previous debate on counterfeiting, my government is in the business of printing and distributing counterfeit currency as a humanitarian measure; a means of rendering aid to the poor and destitute of economically primitive and/or oligarchic nations. With these additions (in green), this resolution will allow us to continue our policy of easing the lives of those who can't afford to feed themselves when their elites decide to piss away their nations' wealth on commodity bubbles and other chimeras, while still applying good and necessary measures to beef up the financial security of nations that deserve it are not so slavishly beholden to criminals and inherited asshats to decide how their wealth is distributed.

We're all for stamping out the counterfeiting operations of per se economic warfare (be it by nations or by wildcatters), organized crime and terrorist groups, and simple crooks; but the humanitarian implications of halting our counter-austerity program are gut-wrenching.

Of course, I'm well aware that these additions may be seen to render the resolution toothless; it's not my intent to slaughter it so thoroughly. I'll inquire with my government to ascertain whether we could live with a strong anti-counterfeiting resolution if it continues to explicitly limit its foreign currency protections to fellow WA members; but it is entirely possible we'd still have to stand opposed.

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Lexicor
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Postby Lexicor » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:25 am

I hope anti-counterfeiting also means the end of fiat currencies or at least liberalizes international markets to competition from multiple domestic currencies. Otherwise you can have all the fancy encryption and anti-counterfeiting methods in the world but you ignore the biggest counterfeit job ever done, printing or digitizing money out of thin air and lending it at an interest rate.

OOC: Its a well written draft. I will have to abstain from voting with Lexicor for festering snakepit reasons!
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:33 am

Wrapper wrote:Interesting, making this about counterfeiting foreign currency rather than all currency. Still... you probably need to address the barter system somehow. Let me put it this way: We use chewing gum as currency. Someone in Bigtopia makes chewing gum. Are they counterfeiting foreign currency?


I should think your own national authorities are best positioned to give an opinion on that question, Wad Ari. What has your experience been with import-export firms who suddenly find themselves in position to bring in, say, a shipping container of limited-edition 1987 RPG Bob baseball-card gum (surely among the rarest of chewing gums, and thus insanely valuable?) that some eccentric had salted away somewhere; but while this amount of "currency" could sustain a Wrapperian regional education budget for a year (depending on the particulars, of course), the foreign seller only had to give up enough Bigtopian groats to purchase a medium-size private home. Suddenly this Wrapperian import firm has preposterously increased its wealth. Your government must have some assay office to determine the value of foreign gum and take a quite hefty tax burden off the top of any large importation of gum-cash.

Also of note is whether your banks and deposit insurers are required to have enough chewable gum on hand to back all of the electronic and paper gum circulating in wallets and bank accounts.

Anyway, the point of all this is: Bigtopian gum manufacturers can't be held to be counterfeiters unless the physical act of chewing gum is illegal in Bigtopia, thus leaving its export to Wrapper (surely the most lucrative possible export destination) as the only legitimate business purpose.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:35 am

"Thank you for your replies. I'll do the best I can to address any concerns in order. Lets see..."
Araraukar wrote:
Felix Dote wrote:Actually, not a bad idea. What I suggest is that you modify verse 1, to also include local currencies, rather than just foreign ones. Otherwise, good work!
Actually, foreign currencies might be what makes it an international issue instead of a domestic one. I'll have a closer look later, Benjamin. Right now too distracted with other things.

"As usual, Janis, you've put it better then I could have. I look forwards to your critique."

Louisistan wrote:"Doesn't look too bad. As always loving #5. More jobs in the civil service.

Number 4 is a little overdoing it. We have to file a report with WANA every time some teenager gets the stupid idea of trying to print counterfeit money on his ink jet printer?


"Fortunately, while compliance is mandatory, we all know there are shades of gray in the actual enforcement. This reporting would only need to be done if an individual actually tries to use it, otherwise law enforcement would have a hard time detecting it to begin with. If the counterfeit of foreign currency is accurate enough to fool those who work with it, there is a problem, as it can impact a foreign government significantly, and it should be reported to the WANA. If it is so poor that it wouldn't be accepted to begin with, its likely not going to provoke prosecution. On the whole, notification is fairly inoffensive. Good fakes will likely not be found until it makes it to whatever regulatory agency handles Lousitanian currency and minting, where the process is far more streamlined then you imply.

"Additionally, while I have no numbers to support this, I imagine that the domestic cases of "Haha, lets photocopy some cash!" will involve significantly more instances of using domestic tender then foreign. However, if you have alternatives to the wording that don't incur massive loopholes, I'd be more then happy to hear them out."

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:While we agree heartily with the spirit of this resolution, I'm afraid we'd require a couple of tweaks (of the sort that I fear may torpedo it) to render it worthy of our support. As mentioned in a previous debate on counterfeiting, my government is in the business of printing and distributing counterfeit currency as a humanitarian measure; a means of rendering aid to the poor and destitute of economically primitive and/or oligarchic nations. With these additions (in green), this resolution will allow us to continue our policy of easing the lives of those who can't afford to feed themselves when their elites decide to piss away their nations' wealth on commodity bubbles and other chimeras, while still applying good and necessary measures to beef up the financial security of nations that deserve it are not so slavishly beholden to criminals and inherited asshats to decide how their wealth is distributed.

We're all for stamping out the counterfeiting operations of per se economic warfare (be it by nations or by wildcatters), organized crime and terrorist groups, and simple crooks; but the humanitarian implications of halting our counter-austerity program are gut-wrenching.

Of course, I'm well aware that these additions may be seen to render the resolution toothless; it's not my intent to slaughter it so thoroughly. I'll inquire with my government to ascertain whether we could live with a strong anti-counterfeiting resolution if it continues to explicitly limit its foreign currency protections to fellow WA members; but it is entirely possible we'd still have to stand opposed.


"I did expect your opposition. I'm afraid I cannot accommodate the addition of the term "unauthorized" as you have suggested without cutting the proverbial balls off this. Nations consider their currency to be, in many cases, sovereign. It represents, with varying degrees of accuracy, the resources available, physical and otherwise, in a nation, and values them according to a number of factors. I would be lying if I said I understood every nuance of the subject. However, I do know that to print and distribute the currency of another nation results in robbing the government and the people of a nation of that precious resource known as money. That is a violation of sovereignty that is as inexcusable to the targeted governments as it ought to be for this Assembly. Please, ambassador, pardon my candor, but I'm sure your parents taught you that stealing is wrong.

"While your intentions may be...er...pure, you do little justice to the citizens you attempt to help, as flooding a market with unbacked currency devalues all of it, impoverishing everybody who holds it. While the immediate influx may help the poor at first, the market ramifications of that response undoes any assistance you intend to offer. You'd be far better off, if I might suggest, to offer the poor and downtrodden of other nations a commodity that will not unsettle their own economic system so directly, such as legal currency acquired by other means, or its equivalent in raw goods. I'm afraid I reject the notion that two wrongs make a right, no matter how awful the first wrong may be.

"I suppose that the saving grace in you endorsing this as currently written, in regard to this issue, is that you have access to alternative measures of offering humanitarian relief while simultaneously being protected from those who would seek to defraud your government in return."

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Wrapper
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Postby Wrapper » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:45 am

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:I should think your own national authorities are best positioned to give an opinion on that question, Wad Ari.

We know what our authorities think, Ambassador. We want to know what the author of this resolution thinks and intends.

Also of note is whether your banks and deposit insurers are required to have enough chewable gum on hand to back all of the electronic and paper gum circulating in wallets and bank accounts.

Paper... gum? What on melmac -- er, earth, are you talking about?

Anyway, the point of all this is: Bigtopian gum manufacturers can't be held to be counterfeiters unless the physical act of chewing gum is illegal in Bigtopia, thus leaving its export to Wrapper (surely the most lucrative possible export destination) as the only legitimate business purpose.

I... we... no no no, look, you do know what a barter system is, yes? Goods and services are exchanged for other goods and services. People trade goods and services among each other, since, especially if you're traveling to other worlds and galaxies, pieces of paper with dead presidents or monarchs are pretty much worthless. Now, if something like chewing gum has inherent, universal value, regardless of where it came from or how it was made -- provided, of course, the product is satisfactory under any international laws relating to foods, since in many cultures, particularly among youth, it is not only chewed but also swallowed -- than why does it matter if it was manufactured by the Wrapperian government, by a Wad in a factory, or in Bigtopia or any other nation?

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:47 am

Wrapper wrote:Interesting, making this about counterfeiting foreign currency rather than all currency. Still... you probably need to address the barter system somehow. Let me put it this way: We use chewing gum as currency. Someone in Bigtopia makes chewing gum. Are they counterfeiting foreign currency?


"Ah, yes. I expected this, my dear Wad, and I have come prepared! No, the Bigtopian scum individuals you've mentioned would not be doing so. There are a few key differences here. For one, they would not be producing a currency with the intention of using it to defraud your nation. I'm not sure what controls the Wrapper government has to prevent the influx of legally-produced chewing gum into your government now, but you cant claim that anybody who produces it is counterfeiting your currency. Chewing gum produced and exchanged for compensation, which would be considered trade, wouldn't be counterfeiting, as the gum is not being produced as legal tender, nor is it being used to defraud any government or individual.

"Likewise, unless you have specific requirements that makes certain kinds of chewing gum acceptable as legal tender and certain unacceptable, then I don't believe we can classify gum as legal tender to be counterfeited. Likewise, one cannot counterfeit a stack of raw material such as honey or lumber, a service, or the like the same way one counterfeits a paper bill. In this instance, nations would not be defrauding a government, as the "currency", if you will, has the same value as the "legitimate" version. A stick of gum that I just made has, ostensibly, the same value of a stick of gum of the same kind in your pocket. In this way, barter systems are exempt unless the specific product is being faked, such as attempting to pass off a lead coin with a gold coating as solid gold. I hope you take my meaning?"

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:58 am

OOC: Sorry for the double post, but I hate editing posts that are likely being replied to mid-edit

IC: "Also, ambassador Wad, you'll see that producing counterfeit currency for a purpose that doesn't involve fraud, is not illegal. For example, producing coins or paper currency of another nation to use in, say, museum displays, where they will not be entered into circulation as legal tender."

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Wrapper
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Postby Wrapper » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:02 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:(--snip--)
I hope you take my meaning?

Indeed, we understand, and we find what you are saying quite acceptable. We suppose that, upon re-reading, it's somewhat addressed in clause 1: "...with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state". The clause would allow anyone in the world to produce chewing gum, and even to use it legally as a currency in our nation, which is fine. Doing so wouldn't defraud anyone using a barter system, of course, and it's highly unlikely they would devalue our state...

Er, wait a moment... "devalue... another member state"?

You may want to fix that, Ambassador, before someone argues that devaluing a member state's currency does not necessarily devalue the whole nation. 8)
Last edited by Wrapper on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:07 am

Wrapper wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:(--snip--)
I hope you take my meaning?

Indeed, we understand, and we find what you are saying quite acceptable. We suppose that, upon re-reading, it's somewhat addressed in clause 1: "...with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state". The clause allow anyone in the world to produce chewing gum, and even to use it as a currency in our nation. Doing so wouldn't defraud anyone using a barter system, of course, and it's highly unlikely they would devalue our state...

Er, wait a moment... "devalue... another member state"?

You may want to fix that, Ambassador, before someone argues that devaluing a member state's currency does not necessarily devalue the whole nation. 8)


"Indeed. Its an area I noted specifically as being of questionable wording. I suppose, technically, that, currency being representative of a nation's resources, both natural and synthetic, devaluing the Bigtopian Mark equates to devaluing the nation as a whole. I realize that conflating buying power and exchange rate is improper, but I have little else to work off of, given the vast disparity in currency strength here. I'm open to suggestions."

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Wrapper
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Postby Wrapper » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:19 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:I'm open to suggestions.

Er... you could just... you know... insert the word "currency" there:

Separatist Peoples wrote:Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue currency or otherwise defraud another member state.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:43 am

Wrapper wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:I'm open to suggestions.

Er... you could just... you know... insert the word "currency" there:

Separatist Peoples wrote:Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue currency or otherwise defraud another member state.

"I considered that, ambassador. I rejected it for a reason I really can't remember right now...so I can't voice an objection!"

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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
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Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:40 pm

Louisistan wrote:...we wish to extend a friendly warning to the Government of Sierra Lyricalia: If you ever try to pull that kind of crap in our Confederacy, be prepared for dire consequences!

Oh, I wouldn't worry, Mr. Schultz. Your economy, while somewhat unbalanced in view of our values and ideological underpinnings, is nevertheless quite strong. Even were we to pass over the multitude of far more deserving nations in favor of your Confederacy, it's likely your people would largely reject the aid. Only if your entire country suffered a gross and sudden depression, and left the WA, would you even be put on the "consider" list. And then there'd still be a number of out-and-out fascist, oligarchic, and hardline communist nations in line ahead of you. But we digress.


Separatist Peoples wrote:"I did expect your opposition. I'm afraid I cannot accommodate the addition of the term "unauthorized" as you have suggested without cutting the proverbial balls off this.

I likewise figured that the added language would be a non-starter. I did, however, have to try. I'm now authorized to pledge our support even without the additions, provided that the protections rendered to foreign currency remain limited to fellow WA members.

Nations consider their currency to be, in many cases, sovereign. It represents, with varying degrees of accuracy, the resources available, physical and otherwise, in a nation, and values them according to a number of factors. I would be lying if I said I understood every nuance of the subject. However, I do know that to print and distribute the currency of another nation results in robbing the government and the people of a nation of that precious resource known as money.

While it's a rare person who agrees with every single policy his or her government enacts, I do have to speak up for this one (briefly; I do not intend a threadjacking, simply an explanation of our position). If a national economy has undergone a collapse so dire that people are starving, the simple fact is that the easiest way to relieve their suffering is to give them money. Some of them will remain where they are and purchase food and necessities (thus effecting a short-term stimulus); others may find it cheaper to move or emigrate someplace that wasn't hit as badly. The overall result is only a serious problem for those whose interest lies in the government doing nothing to help its people.

That is a violation of sovereignty that is as inexcusable to the targeted governments as it ought to be for this Assembly. Please, ambassador, pardon my candor, but I'm sure your parents taught you that stealing is wrong.

Owwwwwwch. Well, they said the same thing to Hobo Rood, Little Jackie, Triar F---, and the rest of the Party People of Surewould Forest. The governments and financiers of the few nations that actually do wind up as recipients of this program can, with equal candor, screw themselves.

"While your intentions may be...er...pure, you do little justice to the citizens you attempt to help, as flooding a market with unbacked currency devalues all of it, impoverishing everybody who holds it. While the immediate influx may help the poor at first, the market ramifications of that response undoes any assistance you intend to offer.

On the contrary - in the type of collapse we're discussing, currency devaluation gives consumers immediate purchasing power and thereby stimulates domestic production. Real wages drop, of course, and that effect is the worst of the "market ramifications" you mention. But they recover faster due to the influx of liquid currency in circulation where it's actually productive; and this short, sharp shock is ultimately far less painful for ordinary people than a long, drawn-out austerity program in which businesses shutter because nobody can afford to patronize them.

You'd be far better off, if I might suggest, to offer the poor and downtrodden of other nations a commodity that will not unsettle their own economic system so directly, such as legal currency acquired by other means, or its equivalent in raw goods. I'm afraid I reject the notion that two wrongs make a right, no matter how awful the first wrong may be.

While of course our above-board international aid programs do all they can, it's pretty inevitable that for any given amount of foreign government aid spend, direct sabotage of austerity programs goes farther, faster, than airlifting food and medicine. When the people can simply buy some of the things they need, aid workers can more efficiently target the worst-affected areas and the market itself speeds its own recovery. The only serious shortcoming is the difficulty of fairly distributing the currency; obviously discussing our solutions to that problem would compromise our people.

Anyway, I sincerely apologize for the thread-jacking, Mr. Bell. I hope that our decided (if not exactly vocal) support for this resolution as currently constituted will be sufficient to avoid further pearl-clutching from various apoplectic ambassadors aghast at the dastardly snatching of cookies from platinum-plated jars.

Have a nice day.
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Defwa
Minister
 
Posts: 2598
Founded: Feb 11, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Defwa » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:55 pm

OOC: I'm sorry, but your international aid idea is based on the shittiest understanding of economics I've ever heard. Do you respond to debt and poverty in your own nation by creating additional poorly supported currency?
Last edited by Defwa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
__________Federated City States of ____________________Defwa__________
Federation Head High Wizard of Dal Angela Landfree
Ambassadorial Delegate Maestre Wizard Mikyal la Vert

President and World Assembly Delegate of the Democratic Socialist Assembly
Defwa offers assistance with humanitarian aid, civilian evacuation, arbitration, negotiation, and human rights violation monitoring.

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Hakio
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hakio » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:13 pm

"Sujabi!" Sia Hedishi exclaims in Haki, "Excellent, you do not know how wonderful it is for me to finally see something professional again in this Assembly! This is a really well written draft that I wholeheartedly support. The only stumble I can find on this first draft that stands out to me is the lack of a definition for the crime of 'counterfeiting', which I would recommend adding in a thorough and thought out manner. Other than that, well done. You have made my day."
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Flamels Stone
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Posts: 411
Founded: Aug 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Flamels Stone » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:21 pm

''I find it wonderful that you gave it a go ambassador! And this is beautifully written and clear(at least for me). I have no objections and see no mistakes, but I am new to this so my opinion doesn't hold much value.''

''I know I need to include non-state businesses instead of just member states in Clause 1, but I'm finding the wording somewhat illusive.''

''Again, I mention my (lack of) experience but I'll try to help in this matter. How about a sub-clause referring to non-members?''
1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.
1.a) All nations are strongly urged to do as/what member states are required to do in clause 1. (compact)
1.a) All nations are strongly urged to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state. (extensive)

[OOC:Maybe I missunderstood what you meant on the quote, if so correct me. Also, i don't know what you mean with preambulatory clauses, i shall research on the matter.]

[EDIT/OOC:Done...can't help alot but i think a few things should be changed in the existing ones:

Recognizing the negative impact of counterfeit currency operations on (member states) nations;<--ends with ;
If your going to mention non-members on the 1st clause ,the preambulatory clauses should include them, i believe.

Realizing such actions not only degrade value of and trust in currency within nations, but also obstruct free trade and damage relations between (national) economic partners,<--ends with ,

They should both end with the same ponctuation.
As always ,corrections are always welcome]
Last edited by Flamels Stone on Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Archeuland and Baughistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Archeuland and Baughistan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:23 pm

Now I think this is a very good idea, and it will have my up-vote!
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Defwa
Minister
 
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Founded: Feb 11, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Defwa » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:29 pm

Flamels Stone wrote:''I find it wonderful that you gave it a go ambassador! And this is beautifully written and clear(at least for me). I have no objections and see no mistakes, but I am new to this so my opinion doesn't hold much value.''

''I know I need to include non-state businesses instead of just member states in Clause 1, but I'm finding the wording somewhat illusive.''

''Again, I mention my (lack of) experience but I'll try to help in this matter. How about a sub-clause referring to non-members?''
1. Member states are henceforth required to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state.
1.a) All nations are strongly urged to do as/what member states are required to do in clause 1. (compact)
1.a) All nations are strongly urged to outlaw the counterfeiting of foreign currency, or the direct support of such, with the intention of releasing it as legal tender into the market to devalue or otherwise defraud another member state. (extensive)

[OOC:Maybe I missunderstood what you meant on the quote, if so correct me. Also, i don't understand what you mean with preambulatory clauses, i shall research on the matter >.<]

Unfortunately we cannot even urge nonmembers. GA legislation exists in an odd vacuum where non members, the security council, and regions do not exist and cannot be mentioned. While they come up in debate frequently, that's the limit of their interaction.
__________Federated City States of ____________________Defwa__________
Federation Head High Wizard of Dal Angela Landfree
Ambassadorial Delegate Maestre Wizard Mikyal la Vert

President and World Assembly Delegate of the Democratic Socialist Assembly
Defwa offers assistance with humanitarian aid, civilian evacuation, arbitration, negotiation, and human rights violation monitoring.

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The Dark Star Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Oct 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dark Star Republic » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:33 pm

Defwa wrote:GA legislation exists in an odd vacuum where non members ... do not exist and cannot be mentioned.

Multiple WA resolutions mention nonmembers.

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