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Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

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Urgench
Minister
 
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Founded: May 21, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Urgench » Thu May 07, 2009 8:52 am

Philimbesi wrote:

The honoured Ambassador may well not subscribe to this view, but then he may not have to live in a deeply sectarian society where peoples of differing creeds are taught to despise one another as infidels or schismatics or heretics e.t.c.


Thankfully no I do not. However does the honored ambassador really believe that eliminating this education in schools is going to stop children from receiving that education at home?


Of course we accept that children may be indoctrinated by their parents outside of a school or educational context, but is the honoured Ambassador's answer to this to offer children no escape from this indoctrination ? To also force it upon them in the one place in which they might have the expectation of being educated rather than indoctrinated, School ?


Yours,
- Mongkha, Khan of Kashgar, Ambassador in Plenipotentiary to the World Assembly for the Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench -

Exchange Embassies with the CSKU here - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67

Learn more about Urgench here- http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Urgench

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Omigodtheykilledkenny
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Thu May 07, 2009 8:54 am

Bowness wrote:Despite points of my arguement (points 3 & 4 specifically) touching on parental pressure and age being a facor in my proposal, I feel your are very much taking it out of context in an unfair and misleading way.

I was responding to American Imperials' comment, not to your proposal -- which has apparently been ruled an ideological ban, so I really don't know what purpose there is continuing this pointless debate.
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Unibot
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Founded: May 25, 2008
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Unibot » Thu May 07, 2009 9:03 am

Careful the size of the brush you paint with ambassador. There are tens of millions of students who graduate from religious schools with no rebellious intentions.


And tens of millions that do.

______

Personally I have a problem with government's funding faith based schools of one paticular religion, a 'monopoly religion' which foreshadows government corruption. That being said, I've always found it best to keep the WA's actions concerned with international problems, and I do not see how faith based schools are a problem in that regard - however, a monopolizing religion seems problematic for international relations.

Yours,
Commander Zhilidigo, Unibot.

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Philimbesi
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Founded: Jun 07, 2007
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Philimbesi » Thu May 07, 2009 10:26 am

Urgench wrote:Of course we accept that children may be indoctrinated by their parents outside of a school or educational context, but is the honoured Ambassador's answer to this to offer children no escape from this indoctrination ? To also force it upon them in the one place in which they might have the expectation of being educated rather than indoctrinated, School ?




Actually, no. On that we do agree. We were discussing and all out ban on parents based on the "dragging to church" comment made by OMGTKK. Banning discussion of religion totally and fully.

Our problem is this measure would have banned faith schools totally, at least how I read it it would, and had no care if it was doing so in a theocracy or not.

Unibot wrote: And tens of millions that do.


Agreed. Never said there wasn't.
The Unified Districts Of Philimbesi
The Honorable Josiah Bartlet - President

Ideological Bulwark #236

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Urgench
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Founded: May 21, 2008
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Urgench » Thu May 07, 2009 10:42 am

Philimbesi wrote:
Actually, no. On that we do agree. We were discussing and all out ban on parents based on the "dragging to church" comment made by OMGTKK. Banning discussion of religion totally and fully.

Our problem is this measure would have banned faith schools totally, at least how I read it it would, and had no care if it was doing so in a theocracy or not.



Indeed we understood that to be the context of our discussion. Our contention is merely that children of too impressionable an age who do not have the ability to form adult consent to such things should not be exposed to the indoctrination of religion in any context, be that in school or at home or in a place of worship.

In any event this is all rather academic, we would not advocate this policy on an international level and since this proposal has already been scotched it seems pointless to discuss the matter further, no matter how rewarding we may find discussion with the honoured Ambassador for Philimbesi.


Yours,
- Mongkha, Khan of Kashgar, Ambassador in Plenipotentiary to the World Assembly for the Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench -

Exchange Embassies with the CSKU here - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67

Learn more about Urgench here- http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Urgench

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Philimbesi
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Founded: Jun 07, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Philimbesi » Thu May 07, 2009 11:00 am

Urgench wrote: no matter how rewarding we may find discussion with the honoured Ambassador for Philimbesi.


Agreed. As rewarding as we find the discussion with you. I noticed you mentioned scotch... I'll buy... :lol:
The Unified Districts Of Philimbesi
The Honorable Josiah Bartlet - President

Ideological Bulwark #236

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Shazbotdom
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Shazbotdom » Thu May 07, 2009 1:28 pm

If people surely have a problem with parents sending kids to Religious Schools within their nation, then they should pass legislation on the national level abolishing Religious Schools instead of pushing for this on the level of the World Assembly. This is NOT something that we as a world governing body should be busying ourselves with.
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Obidia
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Founded: May 05, 2009
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Obidia » Thu May 07, 2009 1:53 pm

Respectfully,

With regards to parents dragging children to church, the parents are in charge of their children and the children, until legally an adult, must obey the rules a parent provides. It is absolutely outrageous to suggest that the government can use its authority to tell parents how to raise their children or if they should be brought up in a faith or not. Further more, with regards to actual issue being proposed, church and state are kept separate for a reason. It is a terrible thing when a government decides it will inject itself back into the religious scene. This may only be one issue, but let the government into religion now, and more and more and more issues will arise. The deeper a government gets into religious affairs, the harder it will be to separate them again. It is for these reasons that The Federation of Obidia (FO) declines this proposal. I urge all nations seeking the betterment of their people and nations to do the same.

Sincerely,
Emperor Nicholas II
Supreme Civil Authority of the Federation of Obidia

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Never wrong People
Secretary
 
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Founded: May 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Never wrong People » Thu May 07, 2009 2:08 pm

NO :o
NO :shock:
NO!!!

Many nations would be agains this
Including this one and 7 other ones that I know that have not post here yet.

Shazbotdom wrote:If people surely have a problem with parents sending kids to Religious Schools within their nation, then they should pass legislation on the national level abolishing Religious Schools instead of pushing for this on the level of the World Assembly. This is NOT something that we as a world governing body should be busying ourselves with.


He is right, it is not right to do on world level, do it your country if you hate faith schools.

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Jahka
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Founded: Apr 22, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Jahka » Thu May 07, 2009 2:23 pm

Even private schools? This is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. I all for secular teaching but this is wrong in many ways.

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Unibot
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Founded: May 25, 2008
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Unibot » Thu May 07, 2009 3:11 pm

Urgench, I'm not sure but I believe the right to "express" and therefore "impress" upon your children with particular ideologies may have been "affirmed" in the Freedom of Expression act.

Again, I'm not sure...

Affirms the right of all people to express their personal, moral, political, cultural, religious and ideological views freely and openly, without fear of reprisal;


So, unless the children develop their ideologies separately and therefore granted the right to express that religion without reprisals from their parents, or the government - their parents appear to have the right to empress them with their views.

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Urgench
Minister
 
Posts: 2345
Founded: May 21, 2008
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Re: Abolition of 'Faith Schools'

Postby Urgench » Thu May 07, 2009 4:14 pm

Unibot wrote:Urgench, I'm not sure but I believe the right to "express" and therefore "impress" upon your children with particular ideologies may have been "affirmed" in the Freedom of Expression act.

Again, I'm not sure...

Affirms the right of all people to express their personal, moral, political, cultural, religious and ideological views freely and openly, without fear of reprisal;


So, unless the children develop their ideologies separately and therefore granted the right to express that religion without reprisals from their parents, or the government - their parents appear to have the right to empress them with their views.



You make the distinction yourself honoured Ambassador, to express is not to impress, the difference is profound, indeed the Freedom of Expression statute would seem to preclude the kind of indoctrination in question.

In any event this debate is redundant, the proposal is illegal since it represents an Ideological ban.


Yours,
- Mongkha, Khan of Kashgar, Ambassador in Plenipotentiary to the World Assembly for the Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench -

Exchange Embassies with the CSKU here - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67

Learn more about Urgench here- http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Urgench

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