[ABANDONED] Repeal GA Resolution #9- Prevention of Torture

[Bodobol]

Okay, I don't have much of a problem with that. BRIGHT IDEA; Why don't I add a bit more to the resolution and add 'Co-Authored by Bodobol'?

Where would you put that though? I guess you could put that in italics at the beginning.

[Mojave]

I'll put it at the very start in Bold.

[Mojave]

So, now all I have to do is get two endorsements... Would anyone mind joining for a day so I can submit a proposal? Haha I don't think anyone will.

[Bodobol]

So, now all I have to do is get two endorsements... Would anyone mind joining for a day so I can submit a proposal? Haha I don't think anyone will.

Wait until we've made the proposal a bit better.

[Mojave]

Yah, true.

[Leutria]

Proposal writing is a marathon, not a sprint. Give it a few weeks, or even a few months so that more people can see it and offer advice/criticism. As it is right now none of the more experienced GA resolution authors have even stuck their head in. You should really hear from them before you even think of submitting.

[Mojave]

Yeah, you're right. Just like my fanfics. Don't rush it.. Just take your time. SIMON WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BAD WRITER! WAAAH I HAVE NO HOPE FOR- Oops... A little too personal.

[Bodobol]

Proposal writing is a marathon, not a sprint. Give it a few weeks, or even a few months so that more people can see it and offer advice/criticism. As it is right now none of the more experienced GA resolution authors have even stuck their head in. You should really hear from them before you even think of submitting.

Thanks for the advice.

Also, I thought of another clause to add in, but I'm not sure if it would work at all:

'RECOGNIZING that some criminals will not confess without some amount of torture'

[Mojave]

Ah, perfect!

[Bodobol]

Ah, perfect!

So you think that clause would work?

[Mojave]

Yah, totally. I'm gonna add stuff to it also to make it more legit on my part. SO STOP INSPIRING ME!

[Mojave]

Soo... What now?

[Grays Harbor]

Just one word for this repeal attempt.

NO

yup, that pretty much sums it up for us.

[Bodobol]

Just one word for this repeal attempt.

NO

yup, that pretty much sums it up for us.

Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

Are you saying it's just something no one would support?

Or do you think it's written/formatted poorly?

[Grays Harbor]

Just one word for this repeal attempt.

NO

yup, that pretty much sums it up for us.

Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

Are you saying it's just something no one would support?

Or do you think it's written/formatted poorly?

Poorly written, not something we could ever support, don't care if anybody else supports it or not as we believe it is a bad idea and will not support it even if it was cowritten by Neil Gaiman.

So, to return to our initial statement. No.

[Bodobol]

Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

Are you saying it's just something no one would support?

Or do you think it's written/formatted poorly?

Poorly written, not something we could ever support, don't care if anybody else supports it or not as we believe it is a bad idea and will not support it even if it was cowritten by Neil Gaiman.

So, to return to our initial statement. No.

Okay, thank you. Like I said, this was my first attempt at a resolution, so I wasn't expecting it to be too great. I'll try to improve on them in the future.

[Alqania]

So, I know what you're thinking-
"Oh, great, ANOTHER attempt to repeal this resolution."

Lord Raekevik sighed. "Yes, that is exactly what we are thinking. This repeal uses the exact same argument as all the could-be-legal repeal attempts of this resolution, an argument that has been fully refuted over and over again, so why exactly should we even engage in debate over that same argument once more? The Queendom is disgusted by the author, summarily declares their represented government a failed state and vows never to support any legislative contribution of theirs to this assembly. Now, is that discouragement enough for newcomers not to try to convince us that torture is actually a Good Thing^TM? Oh, naïvety, how I love thee."

[Mojave]

So, I know what you're thinking-
"Oh, great, ANOTHER attempt to repeal this resolution."

Lord Raekevik sighed. "Yes, that is exactly what we are thinking. This repeal uses the exact same argument as all the could-be-legal repeal attempts of this resolution, an argument that has been fully refuted over and over again, so why exactly should we even engage in debate over that same argument once more? The Queendom is disgusted by the author, summarily declares their represented government a failed state and vows never to support any legislative contribution of theirs to this assembly. Now, is that discouragement enough for newcomers not to try to convince us that torture is actually a Good Thing^TM? Oh, naïvety, how I love thee."

Ugh, can you shut up? Your stupidity makes my head hurt. We're not a failed state, we're just fine, and you're just dumb. The word 'Good Thing' isn't trademarked. And by the way, we aren't newcomers. Especially Bodobol, who is older than you. So please keep your diseased mouth shut and stop saying that nobody will support it. The reason we keep trying is because it might work sometime. Do you not understand the concept of perseverance? No, I guess not, seeing as you blatantly insult us and pretend that you singlehandedly can stop this.

[The Akashic Records]

We thought this was a joke, my aide and I, but it turns out that it wasn't. As such, addressing this in a way that we hope will reach that thick skull of yours,

REALIZING that GA Resolution #9, 'Prevention of Torture' outlaws the use of torture to extract information from criminals and others While you may be targeting criminals, others could use it as an excuse to 'reinforce' domestic security (read: intimidate).

APPLAUDING the good intentions of the resolution, to prevent unlawful 'confessions' from innocent people
And you're repealing this, why?

RECOGNIZES that some criminals simply will not confess without a sufficient amount of torture
Ah, but what is a sufficient amount of torture? You could get your confession from your criminal if you'd just dose said person with truth serum. No need for torture, because if you're willing to consider torture, then didn't you consider a truth serum first?

DISMAYED that it prevents torture, a commonly effective tactic, from being used on criminals who otherwise will not confess
The words "commonly effective" is highly subjective. Anyone, under torture, would give in regardless of their innocence. It is simply because, torture is actually highly effective at breaking the subject's mental strength, and repeated suggestions under torture is the exact reason why Prevention of Torture exists in the first place. If you can't at least understand this, then you've obviously never contemplated the effects of torture in the first place.

HEREBY REPEALS GA Resolution #9, 'Prevention of Torture'.

Lord Raekevik sighed. "Yes, that is exactly what we are thinking. This repeal uses the exact same argument as all the could-be-legal repeal attempts of this resolution, an argument that has been fully refuted over and over again, so why exactly should we even engage in debate over that same argument once more? The Queendom is disgusted by the author, summarily declares their represented government a failed state and vows never to support any legislative contribution of theirs to this assembly. Now, is that discouragement enough for newcomers not to try to convince us that torture is actually a Good Thing^TM? Oh, naïvety, how I love thee."

Ugh, can you shut up? Your stupidity makes my head hurt. We're not a failed state, we're just fine, and you're just dumb. The word 'Good Thing' isn't trademarked. And by the way, we aren't newcomers. Especially Bodobol, who is older than you. So please keep your diseased mouth shut and stop saying that nobody will support it. The reason we keep trying is because it might work sometime. Do you not understand the concept of perseverance? No, I guess not, seeing as you blatantly insult us and pretend that you singlehandedly can stop this.

Actually, it is your stupidity that's hurting the fellow ambassadors' heads. If you want to play by seniority, then, Grays Harbor beats Bodobol by at least 5 years, and here's

Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

Are you saying it's just something no one would support?

Or do you think it's written/formatted poorly?

Poorly written, not something we could ever support, don't care if anybody else supports it or not as we believe it is a bad idea and will not support it even if it was cowritten by Neil Gaiman.

So, to return to our initial statement. No.

[Mojave]

We thought this was a joke, my aide and I, but it turns out that it wasn't. As such, addressing this in a way that we hope will reach that thick skull of yours,

REALIZING that GA Resolution #9, 'Prevention of Torture' outlaws the use of torture to extract information from criminals and others While you may be targeting criminals, others could use it as an excuse to 'reinforce' domestic security (read: intimidate).

APPLAUDING the good intentions of the resolution, to prevent unlawful 'confessions' from innocent people
And you're repealing this, why?

RECOGNIZES that some criminals simply will not confess without a sufficient amount of torture
Ah, but what is a sufficient amount of torture? You could get your confession from your criminal if you'd just dose said person with truth serum. No need for torture, because if you're willing to consider torture, then didn't you consider a truth serum first?

DISMAYED that it prevents torture, a commonly effective tactic, from being used on criminals who otherwise will not confess
The words "commonly effective" is highly subjective. Anyone, under torture, would give in regardless of their innocence. It is simply because, torture is actually highly effective at breaking the subject's mental strength, and repeated suggestions under torture is the exact reason why Prevention of Torture exists in the first place. If you can't at least understand this, then you've obviously never contemplated the effects of torture in the first place.

HEREBY REPEALS GA Resolution #9, 'Prevention of Torture'.

So the fact that torture works is why it's banned? One reason to legalize it is because it is very effective and works yet now we can't use it. And if you haven't noticed, many proposals/resolutions applaud or praise the good intentions of the law they want to repeal, because it wouldn't make sense voting in a law that does something bad. We just want permission to use an effective way of interrogation. And also, I really don't know if a 'Truth Serum' actually exists. And if it doesn't, we're not Future Tech. But you do have one well-placed comment. Yes, it was a bad idea to write 'Criminals and others. Maybe just criminal? But aside from the potentially horrid writing, what about the actual reason? Do you want to repeal the law?

[The Akashic Records]

So the fact that torture works is why it's banned? One reason to legalize it is because it is very effective and works yet now we can't use it. And if you haven't noticed, many proposals/resolutions applaud or praise the good intentions of the law they want to repeal, because it wouldn't make sense voting in a law that does something bad. We just want permission to use an effective way of interrogation. And also, I really don't know if a 'Truth Serum' actually exists. And if it doesn't, we're not Future Tech. But you do have one well-placed comment. Yes, it was a bad idea to write 'Criminals and others. Maybe just criminal? But aside from the potentially horrid writing, what about the actual reason? Do you want to repeal the law?

Did you even understand an ounce of what I said?

Anyone, under torture, would give in regardless of their innocence. It is simply because, torture is actually highly effective at breaking the subject's mental strength, and repeated suggestions under torture would, under any and all circumstances, provide you with what the subject thinks you want, if it means stopping the torture. And that includes giving you false positives. Did I make myself clear?

Torture, as was pointed out in the very resolution that you're trying to repeal, is very good for getting what the subject thinks you want, not what you need. We would suggest that you review your judicial and criminal justice system before attempting a repeal of such a basic human right to not be dehumanized.

[Mojave]

Different forms of torture mean different forms of extracting information. Torture has worked in the past, and you don't want it legalized because you think it does nothing. It's not like we torture everyone.

[The Akashic Records]

Different forms of torture mean different forms of extracting information. Torture has worked in the past, and you don't want it legalized because you think it does nothing. It's not like we torture everyone.

I'm not saying it does nothing. I'm saying it does something wrong. It will, give you false positives, and that's more than enough reason to be AGAINST this repeal, period. Again, we would suggest that you actually contemplate what torture does, and its effects and consequences, instead of spouting nonsense about how torture is effective.

We are of the opinion that you have never experienced torture before, and as such, would recommend that you experience it, while being accused of a crime that you did not do, while repeatedly being told to 'confess to your crimes and it will be over'. We will await the results of such an experience, should you fail to perform a thought experiment, of how torture actually works.

P.S. We are trying to help, and so are those who you have insulted previously. We would also recommend that you understand what they're trying to say, instead of barging in here and acting like you own the place.

[Grays Harbor]

Different forms of torture mean different forms of extracting information. Torture has worked in the past, and you don't want it legalized because you think it does nothing. It's not like we torture everyone.

worst argument ever.

[The Akashic Records]

Different forms of torture mean different forms of extracting information. Torture has worked in the past, and you don't want it legalized because you think it does nothing. It's not like we torture everyone.

worst argument ever.

Isn't it the very same argument that everyone who wanted to repeal this made? While they are enchanted by the idea of torturing people, they have never really thought of what torture does to people. The simple fact that they're trying to repeal Prevention of Torture is proof enough.