Repeal 'Prevention of Torture'

[Philimbesi]

and as such, you're in breach of the resolution Vetok is seeking to repeal. Your police have been committing extreme crimes under international law.

OOC: Too easy...

IC:
If it weren't an utter waste of time and effort I'd suggest a formal Condemnation of New Olwe. However I will go so far as to recommend to our Secretary Of State that we cut off any and all trade with them and their allies in protest of there flagrant viloation of the laws of this body.

Nigel S Youlkin
WA Ambassador - USP

[New Olwe]

If it weren't an utter waste of time and effort I'd suggest a formal Condemnation of New Olwe. However I will go so far as to recommend to our Secretary Of State that we cut off any and all trade with them and their allies in protest of there flagrant viloation of the laws of this body.

Hmm... let's see... 605 nations in 10000 Islands, 4 more in The Pentagram Bloc, about a dozen in the Alliance of Small Nations, maybe 25 other random unaffiliated allies, and we've recently started working with the Union of Sovereign States and are being actively courted by the United Communists Alliance (though we're not quite sure why, since we're feudal socialists). Not sure how many countries are in those last two, but you're talking about cutting off trade to about 700 nations by our estimate, and for no good reason. Why bring our allies into it at all, since it can only hurt you? Our allies haven't committed any actions that you disapprove of... your beef is with us, and us alone, and trying to drag our allies into it is cowardly and dishonorable. Though we wouldn't expect anything else from such a strong proponent of international emasculation.

That being said, we're perfectly willing to have you cut off trade with us. In fact, we've been trying to get the Grand Duke to sign off on an embargo against you.

[Philimbesi]

That being said, we're perfectly willing to have you cut off trade with us. In fact, we've been trying to get the Grand Duke to sign off on an embargo against you.

Somehow I think our 148 trillion dollar GDP, and the other 17 trillion dollars in trade we import will cover it. Further we find it distasteful to do business with those willing to torture their own people in flagrant denial of international standards , or for that matter those who do business with them. Not to mention we do not support nations that are blatantly homophobic enough to believe that a nation who expresses the lack of desire to beat a confession or information out of someone make somehow less strong.

As for your allies, that's an impressive count, however if they are illogical enough to count tortures and law breakers as an ally they really don't' deserve our business.

[The Altani Federation]

The Altani Federation is utterly opposed to this repeal.

The notion that torture often provides you with reliable information is ridiculous. It might, maybe, on occasion. But more often, it will provide you with whatever ramblings a person will give to make the pain stop.

More importantly, there is the old adage that if you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. While some nations may believe that the ends justify the means, we Altani prefer to conduct ourselves with honor. Acting as savage as those who you seek to fight is the epitome of dishonor, and nations that are civilized do not torture. It's really as simple as that, and if the World Assembly is not willing to uphold such a basic tenet of civilization, then what use is it?

-Nikolai Nagashybyuly, Ambassador

[Vetok]

The state of Vetok feels all this arguing is needless as our proposal was rejected. However we support New Olwe as one of our closeset allies and condemn the United States of Philimbesi for threatening the Grand Duchy of New Olwe with economic sanctions for merely stating their position.

Signed
Foreign Minister, Garvin Jaansma

[The Altani Federation]

The state of Vetok feels all this arguing is needless as our proposal was rejected.

Thank the Gods for that.

The Altani Federation likewise refuses to trade with nations that practice torture, and as such, would be pleased to sign trade deals with the United States of Philimbesi to make up for any potential shortfall caused by their noteworthy stance on the matter.

-Nikolai Nagashybyuly, Ambassador

[Philimbesi]

closeset allies and condemn the United States of Philimbesi

Oh, and we were so looking forward to your Christmas card...

for merely stating their position.

We suggest the Vetok delegation hire another translator. We refusing trade with them because they admitted on the floor of the GA that they allow torture to happen, which is against WA law. Further we do not wish to inject more crap into the swirling bowl of condemnation\repeal\condemnation that is the SC since a condemnation of the New Olwes does really nothing.

The Altani Federation likewise refuses to trade with nations that practice torture, and as such, would be pleased to sign trade deals with the United States of Philimbesi to make up for any potential shortfall caused by their noteworthy stance on the matter.

While we are not concerned in the least over the loss of Olwe, we most certainly welcome the trade of the Altani Federation. We are proud to count those who stand for the rights of all as allies. Further we have been very impressed with their work in this body.

[Zwar (Ancient)]

"1. That torture is often an effective way of gaining information on the plans of criminal or terrorist elements, including those of hostile powers."

Well its been proven many times that torture is not an effective way of gaining information that is reliable.

As this report from a US force says quite well:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... 042409.pdf

"2. A person who commits crime or terrorist acts is committing crimes against humanity. Since they have committed their heinous acts first they cannot logically be given the protection of human rights."
Human rights is not something to be taken away by anyone, which always includes the government. It is a very slippery slope when government starts dictating who deserves human rights and who does not.

"3. The psychological threat of being tortured is an effective deterrent, thereby lessening the number of people who are at risk of it."

Are there any figures for this? Id like to apply capital punishment figures as theyre the nearest thing, in none ive ever come across did it appear to be a deterrent. Also, what exactly is it a deterrent to? Treason? Espionage?

Its very ill thought out, with too much hyperbole.

Edit: I see it has already been rejected, my apologies.

[New Olwe]

Yeah, since it's been rejected somebody should probably lock it.

[Qumkent]

The state of Vetok feels all this arguing is needless as our proposal was rejected.

Thank the Gods for that.

The Altani Federation likewise refuses to trade with nations that practice torture, and as such, would be pleased to sign trade deals with the United States of Philimbesi to make up for any potential shortfall caused by their noteworthy stance on the matter.

-Nikolai Nagashybyuly, Ambassador

The Autonomous Principality of Qumkent, The Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench, the Autonomous Principality of Zanjan and the Autonomous Principality of Nakchevan and Arjish will join our Altani allies in a total boycott of trade with Torture practicing nations and will also sign trade agreements with the United States of Philimbesi as a sign of our enthusiasm to obtain ethical and law abiding trade partners.


Yours,

[Philimbesi]

The Trade Department of Philimbesi wishes to express it's gratitude to the nation of New Olwe, as their boycott\embargo is turning out to be the most profitable thing any nation has done for us in a long time.

We welcome the trade of our good friends The Autonomous Principality of Qumkent, The Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench, the Autonomous Principality of Zanjan and the Autonomous Principality of Nakchevan and Arjish. Formal agreements can been obtained by TG'ing our Secretary of State Arnold Vinnick.

[Vetok]

closeset allies and condemn the United States of Philimbesi

Oh, and we were so looking forward to your Christmas card...

In Vetok sending someone a Christmas Card is a great offence. We have sent you two dozen.

Signed
His Holiness Vetok XI

[Enn]

The Trade Department of Philimbesi wishes to express it's gratitude to the nation of New Olwe, as their boycott\embargo is turning out to be the most profitable thing any nation has done for us in a long time.

We welcome the trade of our good friends The Autonomous Principality of Qumkent, The Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench, the Autonomous Principality of Zanjan and the Autonomous Principality of Nakchevan and Arjish. Formal agreements can been obtained by TG'ing our Secretary of State Arnold Vinnick.

... Any of these fine nations looking to import Ennish Shandy? It's our main export, and there's quite a few things we're searching for in return. Of course, and torture-practicing nations will be required to get their tipples via the Strangers' Bar (currently, not exactly a place to go to relax).

Stephanie Fulton

[The Altani Federation]

... Any of these fine nations looking to import Ennish Shandy? It's our main export, and there's quite a few things we're searching for in return. Of course, and torture-practicing nations will be required to get their tipples via the Strangers' Bar (currently, not exactly a place to go to relax).

I think we might want to import some of that. I'd like to order a few cases of it to be sent to my office. As a....test batch. To ensure its suitability for our home market, its quality and efficacy...yeah, stuff like that.

-N.N. etc.

[Qumkent]

The Trade Department of Philimbesi wishes to express it's gratitude to the nation of New Olwe, as their boycott\embargo is turning out to be the most profitable thing any nation has done for us in a long time.

We welcome the trade of our good friends The Autonomous Principality of Qumkent, The Confederated Sublime Khanate of Urgench, the Autonomous Principality of Zanjan and the Autonomous Principality of Nakchevan and Arjish. Formal agreements can been obtained by TG'ing our Secretary of State Arnold Vinnick.

... Any of these fine nations looking to import Ennish Shandy? It's our main export, and there's quite a few things we're searching for in return. Of course, and torture-practicing nations will be required to get their tipples via the Strangers' Bar (currently, not exactly a place to go to relax).

Stephanie Fulton

The Shandy industry of the CSKU is currently sluggish and undeveloped, competition from Ennish shandy producers might be just the thing to reignite the once fervid Urgenchi appetite for this most wholesome of beverages. We will approach the Ministry of Foreign Trade on the matter.


Yours,