[DRAFT] Tourist International Protection Act

[Grays Harbor]

There is no need for special laws covering tourists in foreign nations. As has been already stated many times, there are sufficient laws already in place covering judicial topics, which cover everybody. This is little more than pointless microdrafting.

[Araraukar]

you know what you spy loving hipee
OPPOSED!

OPPOSED
Natsov reasons and, all that good stuff

OOC: Puppet of yours?

[Kengburg]

I see a problem, if the tourist commits a serious crime and needs to be deported on the first flight back, he would never be able to be tried for that crime since he would most likely go under the radar, also, if the tourist commits a crime of terrorism (like setting off a bomb) Kengburgian authorities must interrogate him/her first, using interrogation methods, which may cause harm to the tourist. There are so many what if's and exceptions on this that it is not even much of an act, so I shall say OPPOSED

[Qasaqi]

you know what you spy loving hipee
OPPOSED!

OPPOSED
Natsov reasons and, all that good stuff

OOC: Puppet of yours?

no im pro palestine he's probaly not i just like copying people

[An Evil Shatari]

Are we still allowed to let the prisoners torture abuse them? If so, will our right to televise this for (corrective measures, of course) still be permitted?

[Great Nepal]

So, if we make spying against all nations but our own legal: we can de facto employ tourists out of pay roll to spy on foreign nations and use this act to ensure they walk free if they are caught?

[Rightport]

2)ensuring that after they are turned back justice is served and everything is played fair.

Take in example drugs. Possessing drugs is illegal in Araraukar. But it may not be illegal in the person's country of origin. In Araraukar, if you're found to possess drugs (not for purposes of selling or moving them across the border, simply having them on your person), they are taken away, you are fined, and will have to serve time in prison (severity depends on amount and type of drug, some are "more banned" than others). If I were to deport said person back to their own country, where it wasn't a crime, they would walk free, and no justice would have been served, from my point of view.

Ahh..that's why i stated that the country of that national must "repsect" the laws of foreign countries meaning that even if it is illegal in your country but legal in my country and my citizen break that law in your country my country is still responsible for serving justice to that citizen because they chose to break that law in your country when your country stated that as illegal.

[Rightport]

Are we still allowed to let the prisoners torture abuse them? If so, will our right to televise this for (corrective measures, of course) still be permitted?

No see this is what we are trying to stop the abusing thing..it would then be your nations responsibility to make sure that the foreign nationals are safe and are not abused while in your custody.

[Rightport]

So, if we make spying against all nations but our own legal: we can de facto employ tourists out of pay roll to spy on foreign nations and use this act to ensure they walk free if they are caught?

No

[Rightport]

I see a problem, if the tourist commits a serious crime and needs to be deported on the first flight back, he would never be able to be tried for that crime since he would most likely go under the radar, also, if the tourist commits a crime of terrorism (like setting off a bomb) Kengburgian authorities must interrogate him/her first, using interrogation methods, which may cause harm to the tourist. There are so many what if's and exceptions on this that it is not even much of an act, so I shall say OPPOSED

The act will be editied but I see your point..it will changed where the person must be deported back to their home nation to serve jail time if requested.The home nation will be responsible for determining the appropriate jail time depending on the crime..terroism and bomb would be a big penalty like large number of years or even life.

See we don't want to make it where the foreign nation give the penalty becuase sometimes nations are unreasonable and will give harsh penalties for petty crimes when its not fair to the world.we don't want to see one of rightport citizens seving life in a foreign country for littering.

[An Evil Shatari]

No see this is what we are trying to stop the abusing thing..it would then be your nations responsibility to make sure that the foreign nationals are safe and are not abused while in your custody.

This seems very discriminatory then, as you are essentially asking that I declare my citizens inferior to your own. While I certainly agree that foreign criminals shouldn't be killed for the sake of good diplomacy, I do feel that slowly lopping off a few bits and pieces to discourage their peers should still be on the table.

I also note that you would require nations to recognize foreign laws, but allow them to dictate their own punishments. Let us say hypothetically that one of your Rightport citizens were to commit the gross crime of not bowing down to my glorious leader whenever he appears on the TV. This crime is normally punished by the loss of an eye (or an ear if the person is blind). How would you treat them if we were to ship them back intact? What justice would you serve for us, who have hypothetically been inflicted the most serious of survivable offenses?

Also, as another potential option: What if we release them uncharged from our custody in an unsafe region without punishing them, and just place a bounty on their various bits and pieces. We could then follow them around with a camera crew and still get the same effect as our fanatical citizens prove their devotion to our leader. This would be acceptable, correct?

[Frisbeeteria]

Ahh..that's why i stated that the country of that national must "repsect" the laws of foreign countries meaning that even if it is illegal in your country but legal in my country and my citizen break that law in your country my country is still responsible for serving justice to that citizen because they chose to break that law in your country when your country stated that as illegal.

What you seem to have missed is that two-thirds of the nations aren't WA members. Frisbeeteria, not a WA member, is under no obligation to "respect" any of your laws, and I very much doubt that your citizens would respect ours. Murder, for instance, is an economic activity rather than a criminal activity. If you kill a guy here, you're responsible for maintaining their wife and kids until the kids reach majority. Murder is expensive, but it's between the two parties.

As far as we're concerned, our 'tourists' can visit your nation and kill anyone they want. It's up to you to enforce your laws. If you pass a tourism exemption, I'm pretty sure you'll see a massive influx of Frisbeeterian thrill-killers. If you send 'em back to us, we're not going to do a damn thing to them.


tl;dr version:
You haven't really thought about the implications here, have you?

[Rightport]

No see this is what we are trying to stop the abusing thing..it would then be your nations responsibility to make sure that the foreign nationals are safe and are not abused while in your custody.

This seems very discriminatory then, as you are essentially asking that I declare my citizens inferior to your own. While I certainly agree that foreign criminals shouldn't be killed for the sake of good diplomacy, I do feel that slowly lopping off a few bits and pieces to discourage their peers should still be on the table.

I also note that you would require nations to recognize foreign laws, but allow them to dictate their own punishments. Let us say hypothetically that one of your Rightport citizens were to commit the gross crime of not bowing down to my glorious leader whenever he appears on the TV. This crime is normally punished by the loss of an eye (or an ear if the person is blind). How would you treat them if we were to ship them back intact? What justice would you serve for us, who have hypothetically been inflicted the most serious of survivable offenses?

Also, as another potential option: What if we release them uncharged from our custody in an unsafe region without punishing them, and just place a bounty on their various bits and pieces. We could then follow them around with a camera crew and still get the same effect as our fanatical citizens prove their devotion to our leader. This would be acceptable, correct?

First of all the draft states that all nations must recognize foreign laws and "respect" them its in the last section.

Now the part on loosing an eye or an ear is just harsh.That is why the goal of this is protect tourists from those stuff.Lets say you deport the national back to their home country but in your nation the penalty is loosing an eye or ear then the nation of that national would be responsible for giving a jail or prison sentence for the severity of the crime in your nation.

We understand that laws in your nation might be taken seriously such as not bowing down to the king or whoever but you can't expect us to kill our citizens because that what your nation would do but instead we would rather punish to the extent of the type of crime.

Fore example if one of Rightport citizens litter in your nation and they would spend life for it in your nation and we see it as petty we would have a minimum penalty all the way to a max penalty that we can give for littering.

See everyone thinking this is just some draft in a effort to just get citizens off free of charge when they break laws in foreign countries.
No this is trying to protect our citizens.

Im sure most WA nations don't want thier citizens being killed for petty reasons.Tell me if your citizen was about to serve life for something petty would your nation just say ok and allow it be honest?

[Rightport]

Ahh..that's why i stated that the country of that national must "repsect" the laws of foreign countries meaning that even if it is illegal in your country but legal in my country and my citizen break that law in your country my country is still responsible for serving justice to that citizen because they chose to break that law in your country when your country stated that as illegal.

What you seem to have missed is that two-thirds of the nations aren't WA members. Frisbeeteria, not a WA member, is under no obligation to "respect" any of your laws, and I very much doubt that your citizens would respect ours. Murder, for instance, is an economic activity rather than a criminal activity. If you kill a guy here, you're responsible for maintaining their wife and kids until the kids reach majority. Murder is expensive, but it's between the two parties.

As far as we're concerned, our 'tourists' can visit your nation and kill anyone they want. It's up to you to enforce your laws. If you pass a tourism exemption, I'm pretty sure you'll see a massive influx of Frisbeeterian thrill-killers. If you send 'em back to us, we're not going to do a damn thing to them.


tl;dr version:
You haven't really thought about the implications here, have you?

Ok ofcourse half of the nations are not WA but resolutions are still being passed for the world to obey it has nothing to do with not being a WA.If that is the case resolutions would not be being passed if it was a concern that half of the world is not WA.

[United Federation of Canada]

RECOGNIZING that people many want to travel to different nations for many purposes like vacations,sightseeing or visiting family members.

Corrected that for you , and it is fluff anyway.

DEFINES
A tourist as a person who travels to a foreign nation for visiting purposes

Ok....

UNDERSTANDING that some tourists may break laws of foreign nations while visiting

Understandably

FURTHER UNDERSTANDING that those foreign nations may be seeking justice for those who break laws in their nations.

You bet, and we don't extradite either.

OBSERVING that those tourists arrested by Foreign Authorities are sometimes physically abused before deportation.

I should hope not, as torture is banned by the WA, and Treatment of Inmates would prevent this as well.

(i) :that all member nations come to an agreement that they will ensure the maximum safety of those foreign nationals while in custody.

We respect human rights anyway so.........

(ii) :that no foreign national arrested in their nation may be abused in any way by authorities or whiles in jail.

Once again (I should hope not, as torture is banned by the WA, and Treatment of Inmates would prevent this as well.)

(iii) :that member nations must deport those foreign nationals as soon as the first flight is available to the home nation of those foreign nationals.

I should hope not, and would tell your government to go fly a long kite.

(iiii) :that all member nations follow the correct deportation methods issued by the WA at all times

The WA has regulated this?

(iiii) :nations to keep an investigation report of the crime for a period of 3 years minimum for proof so that they may be reviewed at any given point by the the nations of those nationals to determine what should be done or by the WA for any other purposes upon request.

Now we have to provide the WA all of our criminal investigation reports? Why? For what possible reason? Ever heard of NATIONAL SECURITY?

FURHTER MANDATING
(i) :that nations of those nationals arrested abroad must respect the laws of that foreign nation
by following the correct procedures given by the WA which will ensure the correct action is
taken against those who break laws of foreign nations.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

(ii}by understanding the level of the crime committed in that foreign nation and then determining the appropriate penalty to match that.

Corrected that one for you as well , oh and once again not happening. You do the crime in our nation you do the time.

AGAINST!!!!!!!!!

[An Evil Shatari]

Now the part on loosing an eye or an ear is just harsh.That is why the goal of this is protect tourists from those stuff.Lets say you deport the national back to their home country but in your nation the penalty is loosing an eye or ear then the nation of that national would be responsible for giving a jail or prison sentence for the severity of the crime in your nation.

We understand that laws in your nation might be taken seriously such as not bowing down to the king or whoever but you can't expect us to kill our citizens because that what your nation would do but instead we would rather punish to the extent of the type of crime.

So it's okay to give the criminal a slap on the wrist no matter how serious the crime? Hypothetically, if a Shatarite were to burn down an orphanage in Rightport, would it be alright if we let them off with a warning? After all, Rightportians haven't been proven to be humans by our doctors, so it's really a grey area anyways.

Fore example if one of Rightport citizens litter in your nation and they would spend life for it in your nation and we see it as petty we would have a minimum penalty all the way to a max penalty that we can give for littering.

Oh good, and there's my answer: my citizens can murder in your nation with impunity because it's not a crime to kill Rightportians. Oh! Of course, we'll respect your laws and all that. I think making them write "I will not murder Rightportians" ten times on a chalkboard should a sufficiently harsh punishment, at least for repeat offenders.

See everyone thinking this is just some draft in a effort to just get citizens off free of charge when they break laws in foreign countries.
No this is trying to protect our citizens.

Yes, I noticed that this seems to be aimed at protecting your citizens above all others.

Im sure most WA nations don't want thier citizens being killed for petty reasons.

You have obviously never been on a peasant hunt.

Tell me if your citizen was about to serve life for something petty would your nation just say ok and allow it be honest?

I'd only object if the punishment wasn't brutal and I wasn't shipped a film of it.
...Um, to show to the other criminals as a corrective measure, of course.

[Grays Harbor]

First of all the draft states that all nations must recognize foreign laws and "respect" them its in the last section.

Fine and dandy. We respect your laws. We also have our own. If somebody breaks them, they pay the same identical penalty to our own citizens. Simple.

Now the part on loosing an eye or an ear is just harsh.That is why the goal of this is protect tourists from those stuff.Lets say you deport the national back to their home country but in your nation the penalty is loosing an eye or ear then the nation of that national would be responsible for giving a jail or prison sentence for the severity of the crime in your nation.

Respecting another nations laws is one thing. To expect another nation to jam their own criminal justice system prosecuting crimes committed in another country? Not so much.

We understand that laws in your nation might be taken seriously such as not bowing down to the king or whoever but you can't expect us to kill our citizens because that what your nation would do but instead we would rather punish to the extent of the type of crime.

You break a law, you pay the penalty, same as anybody else. It should be the foreigners responsibility to familiarize themselves with legal differences and foibles prior to entering a nation and not use the "But I didn't know" excuse.

Fore example if one of Rightport citizens litter in your nation and they would spend life for it in your nation and we see it as petty we would have a minimum penalty all the way to a max penalty that we can give for littering.

If a Rightport citizen breaks a Harberian law in our nation, then they are subject to Crown Law, the same as anybody else. (seeing a pattern here yet?)

See everyone thinking this is just some draft in a effort to just get citizens off free of charge when they break laws in foreign countries.
No this is trying to protect our citizens.

Im sure most WA nations don't want thier citizens being killed for petty reasons.Tell me if your citizen was about to serve life for something petty would your nation just say ok and allow it be honest?

If a Harberian citizens breaks the law in a foreign nation and is convicted of it, and they get the same sentence as a citizen of that country, then that is on them. Here's a novel idea. Don't Break The Law. Take responsibility for your own actions.

[Qasaqi]

Tourist International Protection Act

Category: Human Rights
Strength: Mild


RECOGNIZING that people may want to travel to different nations for many purposes like vacations,sightseeing or visiting family members.

DEFINES
A tourist as a person who travels to a foreign nation for visiting purposes

UNDERSTANDING that some tourists may break laws of foreign nations while visiting

FURTHER UNDERSTANDING that those foreign nations may be seeking justice for those who break laws in their nations.

OBSERVING that those tourists arrested by Foreign Authorities are sometimes physically abused before deportation.

MANDATES
(i) :that all member nations come to an agreement that they will ensure the maximum safety of those foreign nationals while in custody.

(ii) :that no foreign national arrested in their nation may be abused in any way by authorities or whiles in jail.

(iii) :that member nations must deport those foreign nationals as soon as the first flight is available to the home nation of those foreign nationals.

(iiii) :that all member nations follow the correct deportation methods issued by the WA at all times

(iiii) :nations to keep an investigation report of the crime for a period of 3 years minimum for proof so that they may be reviewed at any given point by the the nations of those nationals to determine what should be done or by the WA for any other purposes upon request.

FURHTER MANDATING
(i) :that nations of those nationals arrested abroad must respect the laws of that foreign nation
by following the correct procedures given by the WA which will ensure the correct action is
taken against those who break laws of foreign nations.

(ii}by understanding the level of the crime done in that foreign nation and then determining the appropriate penalty to match that.

Basically A LOAD OF LIBEREL S**TE!

[The Ecclesiastical State of Val Royeaux]

If a crime is commited in my country by a tourist then they must pay for their actions as any of our citizens. In the ESVR however we do allow for foreign lawyers to represent and receive fair trials. We are also open to simply expell them from the country with a no return visa.

[Cumbrono]

SUPPORTED

We support this Act completely. We agree that tourists must be treated adequately, and that foreign criminals should not be mistreated, although we assert the fact that it is imperative that foreign criminals should be given jail sentences before deportation. Otherwise, how are they deterred from doing it again?

Apart from this, we would vote for this if it came to a vote.

[Bears Armed]

if the tourist commits a crime of terrorism (like setting off a bomb) Kengburgian authorities must interrogate him/her first, using interrogation methods, which may cause harm to the tourist.

"Ur'rmm, no: There's already a resolution, by which your nation is legally bound if you're actually a member of this oprganisation, that prohibits the use of torture."

[Araraukar]

First of all the draft states that all nations must recognize foreign laws and "respect" them its in the last section.

Non-WA nations don't have to respect anyone's but their own laws (and even then only if said laws are enforced). You can legislate for all nations as much as you like, but non-WA ones are free to ignore you.

Araraukar is a non-WA nation, drug trafficking is death penalty, I wouldn't hesitate to kill off any nationality's citizen, if they were caught bringing drugs into the country in the purpose of selling them.

[Great Nepal]

So, if we make spying against all nations but our own legal: we can de facto employ tourists out of pay roll to spy on foreign nations and use this act to ensure they walk free if they are caught?

No

We certainly can do so, as it stands.
As WA nation, you are required by their proposal to hand over the tourist to Greater Nepalese authorities after catching him spying. We will thank you, get the informations and congratulate the man for getting us important information. We may even pay him a lot of money.

[Anime Daisuki]

I share the sentiments of the ambassador from Grays Harbor. Besides, it's not practical to give tourists special treatment, who's going to pay for all this?

[Bears Armed]

I share the sentiments of the ambassador from Grays Harbor. Besides, it's not practical to give tourists special treatment, who's going to pay for all this?

Put a surcharge on visas for entry into the country as tourists?