Draft: Religious Choice

[The Godly States of America]

MINDFUL of the civil unrest in the World due to Religion,
ACKNOWLEDGING the different views of religion and its involvement in public life,
BELIEVING that Religion, in the big picture, creates a moral cornerstone in society,
REALIZING the controversy of establishing official religions,

The World Assembly therefore;
DICTATES for the purpose of this resolution
a) All major religions are taught in public schools from 1st grade to senior year in high school.
b) Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism constitute the major religions of the world
c) The Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)
REALIZING that education about different religions will dispel old stereotypes and will reveal similarities,
MANDATING that public school officials and teachers do not in any way publicly favor one religion over another and do not voice their opinion about how one religion may be wrong or that one religion may be right.
UNDERSTANDING there are individuals in the world who oppose religion and find the existence of God to be laughable,
HEREBY order that evolution also be taught so that all viewpoints about religion, whether they are favorable or unfavorable, are heard.
DIRECTING that evolution and religion will be taught the same amount with the same quality of teaching.
HOPEFUL that the teaching of religious views will in the long-run bring people of different faiths together and will also bring morals and virtues back into the public square.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Category and Strength?

[Frisbeeteria]

Nice to know that we can't teach Frisbeeterianism in Frisbeeteria. Or at least that we have to give non-existent religions equal time. Not to mention our Shinto, Buddhist, and Pastafarian neighbors, nor most of the other religions on this list. And then of course there are the atheists, who will be delighted by the mandatory teaching of myth-as-fact.

I'm fairly certain this contradicts half a dozen existing resolutions, but I can't be bothered to lift my arse out of this chair to thumb through the index. Against.

MJ Donovan, Ambassador Emeritus, Frisbeeteria.

[Three Weasels]

MINDFUL of the civil unrest in the World due to Religion,
ACKNOWLEDGING the different views of religion and its involvement in public life,
BELIEVING that Religion, in the big picture, creates a moral cornerstone in society,
REALIZING the controversy of establishing official religions,

So, if religion causes all this problems, then why is it being given the light of day? Seems to us that you'd want to do away with such trivial things as they've got no place in a progressive world. And who are you to claim that religion creates "moral cornerstone" - seems like a lot of that needless huu-man hooey.

The World Assembly therefore;
DICTATES for the purpose of this resolution
a) All major religions are taught in public schools from 1st grade to senior year in high school.

What a waste of time and resources when there are so many other more worthy subjects.

b) Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism constitute the major religions of the world

What the... what are those things? Oh joy, it's huu-man "religion". Exactly which world is this you're talking about?

c) The Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)

We know little of this foolish huu-man means of creating unnecessary division and strife, but our research team tells us that the "bible" is a Greek word for a holy scripture or sacred writing. Why are you using the generic name for the holy books of those faiths? According to our research team who was kind enough to find out something about huu-man history and culture, the folks who you call "Jews" have the Talmud and the Torah, while the ones you call "Christian" have the Old and New Testament. Don't Muslims also have the Hadith in addition to the Qu'ran? You really should do your research before mandating what parts of religion should be taught. If us Stoats can take the time to briefly learn something about the bipedal beings who like to drink till the chamber spins, surely you can take the time to learn something about what you feel others should be educated on.

REALIZING that education about different religions will dispel old stereotypes and will reveal similarities,

So, comparative studies? Surely this isn't already covered by resolution #80: Promotion of Basic Education which requires that students learn about their nation's culture and history, as well as that of the region? Seems very similar. Also, what purpose is there to learning about religions which aren't at all present in our part of the galaxy? After all, who is going to teach Meadowism when it's so obscure and local only to our nation?

MANDATING that public school officials and teachers do not in any way publicly favor one religion over another and do not voice their opinion about how one religion may be wrong or that one religion may be right.

A lot of theocratic nations aren't going to like this...

UNDERSTANDING there are individuals in the world who oppose religion and find the existence of God to be laughable,

What purpose does this clause even serve?

HEREBY order that evolution also be taught so that all viewpoints about religion, whether they are favorable or unfavorable, are heard.
DIRECTING that evolution and religion will be taught the same amount with the same quality of teaching.

Surely resolution #48: Access to Science in Schools accomplishes this by requiring the teaching of peer-reviewed science theories and the like in the curriculum for public schools. Sure the resolution isn't specifically calling for evolution, but rather the inclusion of all viable theories, laws and the like. In fact, where religion is given academic time that the same amount of time be allocated for the teaching of scientific material.

HOPEFUL that the teaching of religious views will in the long-run bring people of different faiths together and will also bring morals and virtues back into the public square.

Religion does not bring morality back anyway. But we won't go any more into that because it's purely subjective much like your proposal.

[Teutonic Territories]

I would refer you to http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=166511&hilit=Religious+freedom

I would love this resolution to be passed.

[Democratic Consensia]

Catagorically against. Religious instruction is not a matter for international law.

[Paper Flowers]

DICTATES for the purpose of this resolution
a) All major religions are taught in public schools from 1st grade to senior year in high school.
b) Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism constitute the major religions of the world
c) The Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)

Schools are places of facts, not of myths and fairytales. We see no reason to allow this nonsense within public schools.

UNDERSTANDING there are individuals in the world who oppose religion and find the existence of God to be laughable,

These people are called "normal".

HEREBY order that evolution also be taught so that all viewpoints about religion, whether they are favorable or unfavorable, are heard.
DIRECTING that evolution and religion will be taught the same amount with the same quality of teaching.

See above, we will not pretend that peoples delusions are equal in nature to scientific theory.

and will also bring morals and virtues back into the public square.

Considering the behaviours shown by Religious leaders, surely the banning of religion is more likely to strengthen morals and virtues rather than giving these individuals more sway.

[Tostenburg]

how about you re write the resolution entirely calling it a bill for freedom of faith. That is to say regardless of what the state religion (or lack there of) in a nation everyone has the right to be associated or disassociated with any faith ? you can be any religeion or have no religeon and their is nothing the state can do to prevent you from assosiating with that faith. Any acts of violence , paedophillia, rape ETC associated with said faiths will be tried in a civil court as a crime unrelated to said persons faith ? - if that makes sense, but its a bit to wordy and i cant imagine anyone going for it!

[Democratic Consensia]

My office has informed me that the Democratic Assembly back home in Consensia would like to see me be more thorough. You may review my comments below.

MINDFUL of the civil unrest in the World due to Religion,
ACKNOWLEDGING the different views of religion and its involvement in public life,
BELIEVING that Religion, in the big picture, creates a moral cornerstone in society,

I can't begin to tell you how insulting those of us out there who are not in religious circles feel these two lines would be, particularly the part about Religion creating a moral cornerstone, given that, by and large, some of the largest atrocities in history have been perpetrated with religious intent. Further, it is not the duty of this body to legislate on morality.

REALIZING the controversy of establishing official religions,

Doing so would be an ideological ban on secular governments and theocratic governments not of the chosen religion.

The World Assembly therefore;
DICTATES for the purpose of this resolution
a) All major religions are taught in public schools from 1st grade to senior year in high school.
b) Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism constitute the major religions of the world
c) The Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)

No no, no no no, no no, no. First of all, clause (a) assumes that all educational systems share the same structure as what I presume you have. Second of all, clause (b)laves no leeway for what are the statistically-prevalent religions of the world. As many others have said, we are not operating on the plane you seem to be. Thirdly, Clause (C) only defines two of the holy books, for three of the religions you yourself require, and ignores the fact that the Jews don't use the Bible, but the Talmud and the Torah. All of Islam is not enshrined in the Qu'ran, either.

REALIZING that education about different religions will dispel old stereotypes and will reveal similarities,
MANDATING that public school officials and teachers do not in any way publicly favor one religion over another and do not voice their opinion about how one religion may be wrong or that one religion may be right.

How about in nations with state religions? Moreover, why will be forcing nations to spend their taxpayer's dollars on teaching things that the taxpayers themselves may or may not agree with? Why are we censoring teachers?

UNDERSTANDING there are individuals in the world who oppose religion and find the existence of God to be laughable,
HEREBY order that evolution also be taught so that all viewpoints about religion, whether they are favorable or unfavorable, are heard.

These two lines and the one following it demonstrate how laughably one-sided your own viewpoint is, and while I respect your right to believe in whatever gods or gods you choose (or choose not) to follow, I do not respect your right to be so demonstrably wrong.

Evolution is a demonstrated and empirically-verified mechanism of biological processes. It is not a factor of cosmology, except in cases where we are dealing with one of the great philosophical questions, "How did I come to be?". Evolution is not antithetical to religion and to imply otherwise is to insult millions of persons who believe in both simultaneously. To enshrine such in law would be utterly indefensible, and it would be my suggestion that whoever did so should kindly defenestrate themselves so that the rest of us can go back to working seriously.

DIRECTING that evolution and religion will be taught the same amount with the same quality of teaching.

I actually have no problem with this line.. All things should be taught as well as is possible.

HOPEFUL that the teaching of religious views will in the long-run bring people of different faiths together and will also bring morals and virtues back into the public square.

Why don't we just start teaching secularized ethics courses? Same net effect.

I would offer to help draft a better piece of legislation for this proposal... but really, the best way to save it is to shelf it.

[The Emerald Legion]

Why in the Wizards name would we teach some heretics worship of some meatbag and his obsession with a sky-dad?

Seems kinda stupid to me.

Besides we already understand your pathetic Abrahamic religions. The Priesthood of the Holy Machine crushed them out of existence in our nation during the grand inquisition of the Wizard.

Of course this was before we joined the WA.

[Vazdania]

religion only accounts for 7% of world wars. Futhermore I like the INTENT of this, but IT DEFINITLY needs work

[Condunum]

religion only accounts for 7% of world wars. Futhermore I like the INTENT of this, but IT DEFINITLY needs work

Real world =/= Nationstates. And conservative estimate place that number at about 17%.

"Religion taught in schools? As long as it stays in theology class, and isn't an alternative to science."

[Moronist Decisions]

RL references; and just no. That's pure micromanagement.

[Falcania]

There is merit in a proposal that mandates that schools provide a balanced education, in that children are taught about the various religions in and around their nation, with the aim of assisting the generation of tomorrow to understand each other's faiths.

Falcania shares no land borders in Atlantian Oceania, has no immediate neighbours, and no internal faiths, so these lessons would be fairly short.

However, mandating that every nation in the WA is taught four arbitrary religions that may or may not exist in their locale? Poor choice.

[The Godly States of America]

I appreciate your feedback! I understand there is a good amount work needed on this proposal. I thank many of you for pointing out to me that in the Nation States world there are many more religions. Some are named after their countries, others are meticulously thought out, and others are just made up for fun. I realize this proposal has flaws and I want to say thank you again so I may revise it to fit more in line with your suggestions. The sole purpose of this proposal is to show that major religions agree on major issues and history. As you may or may not know, Christians, Muslims, and Jews all agree that Moses parted the red sea, David killed Goliath, Daniel survived in the Lion's Den, and Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac. All three of those religions also believe that Jesus was an actual person (their are historical records that prove this to be true). Muslims actually believe that Jesus is the Savior and their will be a second coming. Where they differ is that Muslims believe he is not the son of God, because they argue that God cannot be made in human form. Muslims also believe that Jesus was about to die on the cross, but he was replaced and ascended into heaven. Very few individuals know these facts and that is the basis of this proposal, to show similarities between religions and to also reveal the facts about what they believe. Now dealing with Atheism. Freedom of Religion is when the state does promote or inhibit a particular religion. Since the teaching of evolution argues that God did not create man but that man evolved from single-cell organisms, it is in conflict with creationism. Creationism is the very base of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. By teaching evolution without teaching creationism, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are directly inhibited by the government because the government is publicly stating that their religion is wrong. Therefore the teaching of evolution, and evolution only, violates everyone's right to freedom of religion. The English colonists came to the New World to escape Religious Freedom, not Religion itself. Now dealing with the moral argument. There is truth behind the claim that religion causes wars. Religion causes wars when other religions don't understand each other and their beliefs. That is what the proposal is trying to dismantle is religious intolerance. In the end, this little reply I typed up will not matter. When we stand before the All-Powerful Judge, this forum is not going to make a difference between where we go. I pray that God shows mercy on all of you whether Atheist, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, or Frisbeeterianism for that matter in this life and the next!

[Romania Mare1]

NOT HAPPENING

a) All major religions are taught in public schools from 1st grade to senior year in high school.

Why ? What if there are atheists ? Why must they go trough that crap ? Classes on religion like that should be something optional,for those who want to follow them,otherwise it's just a waste of time. I mean,let the kids do kid things instead of staying in a class bored to death.

b) Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism constitute the major religions of the world

Don't care,popular fairy tales,big deal

c) The Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)

WHY ? They are damn huge and stupid so why should we learn them ? I've read a lot of the bible and it's painfully boring (and stupid ) so why should we torture children ? Why do you hate children :| ?

[Democratic Consensia]

I appreciate your feedback! I understand there is a good amount work needed on this proposal. I thank many of you for pointing out to me that in the Nation States world there are many more religions. Some are named after their countries, others are meticulously thought out, and others are just made up for fun. I realize this proposal has flaws and I want to say thank you again so I may revise it to fit more in line with your suggestions.

This is a rare reaction, and much appreciated. Thank you.

The sole purpose of this proposal is to show that major religions agree on major issues and history.

Again, many of these religions don't always exist in NationStates, and when they do, they might exist in a somewhat mutated way. While I grant you that there are many nations out there which are theocracies based on RL religions (my own San Benedict e San Francesco for example), most aren't, and many more (with much larger populations) have their own religions, such as the aforementioned frisbeeterianism. I'm also cutting out the similarity discussion, because I have nothing to add.

Since the teaching of evolution argues that God did not create man but that man evolved from single-cell organisms, it is in conflict with creationism. Creationism is the very base of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. By teaching evolution without teaching creationism, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are directly inhibited by the government because the government is publicly stating that their religion is wrong. Therefore the teaching of evolution, and evolution only, violates everyone's right to freedom of religion. The English colonists came to the New World to escape Religious Freedom, not Religion itself.

There are any of a number of reasons why this passage is incorrect, and it's my job as a Catholic and as a lay catechetical instructor to set that straight. Creationism is not the "very base of" either of those three religions, except in certain circles and denominations (with the possible exception of Islam, a matter on which I am not well-versed). The Catholic Church, for example, has come to accept evolution as a natural law. While this isn't the place for a long, strung-out debate on the subject (though a formal debate on it is one that I've been aching for for a while now), I would say that it cheapens the power of what God created to say that he had to form each individual thing ex nihilo. The empirical study that is science and the products of it such as the Theory of Evolution are the product of the minds God gave us, and the mechanical study of the universe which he created around us. How dare any of us cheapen it by saying that all those hundreds of years of study are in error, and that it is really so simple as God breathing life into clay to create Adam, and taking Adam's rib to be Eve?

Evolution isn't an argument against religion any more than modern engineering is an argument against a 1950's VW Bug. And, to be fair, the puritans (who were the first pilgrims to the New World from England) were leaving in order to escape religious persecution from the dominant Church of England... not to escape religious egalitarianism. Even with evolution on the curriculum, we are perfectly free to catechize our children in our own time, or to send them to schools with the same religious affiliation as ourselves. It's where public funding comes into play that people get nervous of it, and I have to say that in my school district, any attempt to teach any religion other than Roman Catholicism would fall rather short of the mark. We're just a little backwoodsy, for a city of 70, 000.

Now dealing with the moral argument. There is truth behind the claim that religion causes wars. Religion causes wars when other religions don't understand each other and their beliefs. That is what the proposal is trying to dismantle is religious intolerance. In the end, this little reply I typed up will not matter. When we stand before the All-Powerful Judge, this forum is not going to make a difference between where we go. I pray that God shows mercy on all of you whether Atheist, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, or Frisbeeterianism for that matter in this life and the next!

Indeed, and I echo the sentiment. Philosophy students can tell you that morality ex nihilo is a very viable construct, and history students can tell you that religious wars are just a constant, and the only reason they are going down in the recent century or two is that world leaders are themselves becoming increasingly secular.

Addendum: This act is about religious choice, something that many of us have tried in the past to enshrine in this body's legislation, in one way or another. However, it is important to note that there arguments to be made that a freedom of religion law would constitute at least a partial ideological ban on Theocracies. It is hard to teach your national God as the One True Faith when you have to give equal time and effort to Hinduism, Christianity (including Mormonism?), Islam, and Judaism.

Well more than my 2 cents, duly deposited.

[Jesus H Christ]

MANDATING that public school officials and teachers do not in any way publicly favor one religion over another and do not voice their opinion about how one religion may be wrong or that one religion may be right.

Haven't you people realized that I am the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man cometh unto the Father, but by me?

Why would you prevent good Christian governments from saving the souls of their citizens by proclaiming my truth?

[The Emerald Legion]

MANDATING that public school officials and teachers do not in any way publicly favor one religion over another and do not voice their opinion about how one religion may be wrong or that one religion may be right.

Haven't you people realized that I am the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man cometh unto the Father, but by me?

Why would you prevent good Christian governments from saving the souls of their citizens by proclaiming my truth?

Because the more efficient way is to bond their souls to physical objects.

Then when they die use the soul to animate a mechanical body.

[David Williams]

I would only vote in favor of this if another 50 were added to the list, then i would consider it enough.
Important ideological perspectives that you have not talked about:
Babism, Bahai, Gnosticism, Rastafarians, Mandaeans, Sabians, Unitarian universalism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Manichaeism, Mazdakism, Mithraism, 3 different religions classified as Yazdanism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Shinto, Taoism, Caodaism, Seicho-no-le, Tenrikyo, A whole load of african beliefs, voodoo, Pagans, Neo-Pagans, Cargo-Cults, Hellenism, Mysticism, Occult and magic such as Wicca and Thelema, New thought religions, Satanism, Totemism, Shamanism, Tengriism, Joke religions, Atheism, Agnosticism, Pantheism, and Panentheism. That all adds up to 42, and probably applies to at least 95% of the world. you also have to put into account that all of these have billions and billions of offshoots. What im proposing is that maybe it shouldnt just teach major religions, it should teach about all of them (Instead of discrimination) and as well as other parts of philosophy. then again, we still have the major effect of underfunded countries, i would like to see a solution to that.

[The Godly States of America]

I find this to be a balanced approach because it teaches all the major religions, but it also teaches atheism and evolution. I created this bill so that children are not brainwashed to believing on certain thing. So how many would actually vote for this bill?

[Moronist Decisions]

I find this to be a balanced approach because it teaches all the major religions, but it also teaches atheism and evolution. I created this bill so that children are not brainwashed to believing on certain thing. So how many would actually vote for this bill?

We fear the number might be zero, as we suspect that references to that "Real World" may cause the Secretariat to take administrative action.

[Cowardly Pacifists]

I find this to be a balanced approach because it teaches all the major religions, but it also teaches atheism and evolution. I created this bill so that children are not brainwashed to believing on certain thing. So how many would actually vote for this bill?

I'm sorry, but not only is this proposal ill conceived, it's more than a bit insulting. First, you require nations to provide "religious instruction" in particular faiths that you style "major religions." I'll get back to that in a second, but you've already gone way off the reservation. You specify that these religions must be taught "from 1st grade to senior year in high school." So obviously you're targeting our children. Why the hell should any nation be forced to teach their children about particular religions? The WA hasn't even required that children be taught reading, writing, or math, and yet you want us to believe that teaching a handful of religions is that important? Your whole premise is faulty. Religion is a cultural issue. There is no one-size fits all approach that the WA should implement. If nations want to outlaw religious instruction, they should be free to do so. If they want to mandate instruction in some religions and not others, they should be free to do that too. But the WA has no business requiring that children be instructed in certain major orthodoxies. It is completely inappropriate for this body to mandate instruction in religion period, much less single out certain preferred faiths.

Secondly, your list of "Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism" doesn't fool anyone - you want to mandate education in the Judeo-Christian tradition (and really, you want to mandate Christianity). Hinduism seems obviously tacked on to that list of "major world religions," and I suspect you did that not because you believe it is important to teach Hinduism but because you wanted to avoid the appearance of favoring only Abrahamic faiths. But your list is ridiculous and your intent obvious. There are several faiths far more "major" than Judaism - Buddishm, Taoism, Confucianism, Shinto, and Sikhism, all claim far more adherents, and there are several folk religious that are just as prominent. Your obvious bias for the Abrahamic tradition is insulting to the millions that practice these other faiths - as if their religions are not "major" enough despite their sizable congregations.

Finally, your mandate that the "Holy Book of each religion be taught in the public school system (the Bible for Jews and Christians, the Qur’an for Muslims)" has so many problems I'm starting to foam at the mouth. The Jews do not claim the "Bible" as their holy book, and this is just another obvious clue that you don't give a damn about any religion except the Christian religion. And what happened to the Bhagavad Gita, or the Rig Veda, or any other important book in Hinduism? Seems you have forgotten about that major religion already. I'll admit that I'm surprised you actually put down "the Qur’an for Muslims," but I imagine that's just a screen (like Hinduism in the last provision) meant to serve as a half-assed disguise of your preference for Christianity.

This proposal is of marginal international importance at its best and shamelessly biased in favor of Christianity at its worst. I strongly suggest you abandon this monstrosity. If you truly give a damn about improving education, get off your soapbox and give us a practical education resolution that would actually benefit nations and doesn't seek to brainwash our children with your religious values.

Regards.

[Falcania]

I maintain that mandating that education be neutral and disinterested in regards to religion and belief, to the extent of teaching the tenets and belief systems of a number of different local faiths in an unbiased manner, is a worthwhile aim of the World Assembly. This particular proposal appears to have this at its kernel, but needs to be thoroughly restructured.

[Lulzvenia]

Opposed at the highest level.