[withdrawn until reworked] Harmful Emissions Cap and Trade

[United Celts]

Grainne Mac Carthaigh, The Holy Empire of United Celts' Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, takes to the floor. "My government shares concerns about this proposal that have been expressed by other member nations. However, we believe this is an important issue as harmful emissions threaten every sapient life in every nation. We would be willing to work with the People's Republic of Uiopia and any other government that may be interested over the coming weeks -- not days -- to draft legislation that may be more suitable. At this time, though, my government respectfully suggests that the Uiopian delegation withdraw this proposal."

[Uiopia]

The point is to raise the price of oil so that less oil is used. Since the production of oil causes harm that the producers, nor the buyers of oil bare. instead third parties bare these costs. we need to the firms that pollute to pollute to internalize these negative externalities so that it is produced at a socially optimal level. sure some prices will rise, but health care costs will fall. since people aren't getting as sick due to pollution that is dumped into the air. them not getting as sick will also cause them to miss less days of work, and make them more productive when they do go to work, lowering costs and therefore prices. the costs of these regulations will be more then made up for by the benefits.

The benefits won't outweigh the cots for Joe Schmo who now has to pay more for the gas he needs to get to work, food to keep his family fed, etc. etc.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

What hurts Joe Schmo more then a rise in prices in food, is the thousands of dollars in health care costs he has to pay ever year because his children has asthma, or the days of work he is going to miss because of the radiation treatment he has to get for his lung cancer, or in lower tech countries, the years of work missed because he died before he could put his children through college. These damages that Joe Schmo has to deal with due to production of many goods he could never afford, and that he had no part in producing. Joe Schmo is the victim of air pollution that is dumped into the air every day, simply because the polluters do not feel the damage caused by the pollution they are spewing into the air. Joe Schmo would be better off with the cost of food being slightly higher.

[Ravineworld]

I will fight this resolution until hell freezes over. Then I will fight it some more.

[Uiopia]

Grainne Mac Carthaigh, The Holy Empire of United Celts' Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, takes to the floor. "My government shares concerns about this proposal that have been expressed by other member nations. However, we believe this is an important issue as harmful emissions threaten every sapient life in every nation. We would be willing to work with the People's Republic of Uiopia and any other government that may be interested over the coming weeks -- not days -- to draft legislation that may be more suitable. At this time, though, my government respectfully suggests that the Uiopian delegation withdraw this proposal."

I look forward to working with you as well.

[Cowardly Pacifists]

Now, fwiw, what Mr. Flibble said was not Modly from what we can read; that said, I still would think hard before going against him.

Yes, I suppose I should do a better job of distinguishing Bob Flibble, Plucky Ambassador, from Bob Flibble, Heavy Hand of the Secretariat.

[Grays Harbor]

The benefits won't outweigh the cots for Joe Schmo who now has to pay more for the gas he needs to get to work, food to keep his family fed, etc. etc.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

What hurts Joe Schmo more then a rise in prices in food, is the thousands of dollars in health care costs he has to pay ever year because his children has asthma, or the days of work he is going to miss because of the radiation treatment he has to get for his lung cancer, or in lower tech countries, the years of work missed because he died before he could put his children through college. These damages that Joe Schmo has to deal with due to production of many goods he could never afford, and that he had no part in producing. Joe Schmo is the victim of air pollution that is dumped into the air every day, simply because the polluters do not feel the damage caused by the pollution they are spewing into the air. Joe Schmo would be better off with the cost of food being slightly higher.

We find your assertion that driving up the prices of food, electricity, heating oil, consumer goods, well, the price of everything, in order for you to feel good about yourself and "helping the environment" to be disturbing at the very least. I am sure "Joe Schmo" will feel absolutely marvelous about it as he watches his family starve, or deciding which of his kids gets to eat on any particular evening, to be wonderful because he knows that a fish someplace is now safe. This entire scheme will do no less than bring about the wholesale destruction of entire economies, but thats alright I guess, because we will also destroy those ebul "polluters" at the same time and drive them out of business. Which will then bring about massive unemployment. Which will then finish the destruction of the economy. Of course, once everybody dies off, the environment will be perky and pristine again, so I guess your goal would be accomplished.

Opposed, needless to say.

[Heistrein]

Grainne Mac Carthaigh, The Holy Empire of United Celts' Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, takes to the floor. "My government shares concerns about this proposal that have been expressed by other member nations. However, we believe this is an important issue as harmful emissions threaten every sapient life in every nation. We would be willing to work with the People's Republic of Uiopia and any other government that may be interested over the coming weeks -- not days -- to draft legislation that may be more suitable. At this time, though, my government respectfully suggests that the Uiopian delegation withdraw this proposal."

I look forward to working with you as well.

I'm glad you are going to redo this. I wholly agree with the intentions of pollution reduction, but loopholes and technicalities and such made it difficult to support the proposal as written. Good luck on the next attempt on this!

[Uiopia]

What hurts Joe Schmo more then a rise in prices in food, is the thousands of dollars in health care costs he has to pay ever year because his children has asthma, or the days of work he is going to miss because of the radiation treatment he has to get for his lung cancer, or in lower tech countries, the years of work missed because he died before he could put his children through college. These damages that Joe Schmo has to deal with due to production of many goods he could never afford, and that he had no part in producing. Joe Schmo is the victim of air pollution that is dumped into the air every day, simply because the polluters do not feel the damage caused by the pollution they are spewing into the air. Joe Schmo would be better off with the cost of food being slightly higher.

We find your assertion that driving up the prices of food, electricity, heating oil, consumer goods, well, the price of everything, in order for you to feel good about yourself and "helping the environment" to be disturbing at the very least. I am sure "Joe Schmo" will feel absolutely marvelous about it as he watches his family starve, or deciding which of his kids gets to eat on any particular evening, to be wonderful because he knows that a fish someplace is now safe. This entire scheme will do no less than bring about the wholesale destruction of entire economies, but thats alright I guess, because we will also destroy those ebul "polluters" at the same time and drive them out of business. Which will then bring about massive unemployment. Which will then finish the destruction of the economy. Of course, once everybody dies off, the environment will be perky and pristine again, so I guess your goal would be accomplished.

Opposed, needless to say.

benefits of reduction in pollution:
reduction in premature deaths
reduction in chronic bronchitis and asthma
Hospital costs
lost days of work
restricted activity days (due to excessive smog)
Improved visibility
costs:
less goods at a higher price

the benefits of reducing pollution is worth it up to a point. This proposal tells markets( or other entities) the cost of pollution, and then lets markets decide where the marginal benefits equals the Marginal costs.

[Bears Armed]

"Although my own government certainly doesn't approve of pollution, please bear in mind that WA members comprise only a minority of the nations in existence and that as this proposal would not -- and legally could not -- do anything about the release of such emissions by industries in non-member nations it would therefore probably result only in a movement of industries -- and thus of economic strength -- from members to non-members..."


Artorrios o SouthWoods,
ChairBear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly
for
The High Council of Clans,
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed.