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[PASSED] Repeal "A Model World Assembly"

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Mallorea and Riva
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[PASSED] Repeal "A Model World Assembly"

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:58 am

Passed!


A MODEL WORLD ASSEMBLY
Category: Education and Creativity I Focus: Education I Proposed by: Mahaj


The World Assembly,

RECOGNIZING the goal of this body, the General Assembly, is to improve the world,

BELIEVING the best way this can be done is for delegations to be educated, both now and in the future,

CHOOSING, in this resolution, to focus on future potential delegations, namely children,

BELIEVING that people, including children, should be educated about the World Assembly, and the best way to do this is through simulations of the World Assembly,

REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly,

CREATES the organization to be known as the Model World Assembly, or MWA for short,

IDENTIFIES MWA as a simulation of WA meetings and discussions,

RECOMMENDS that nations implement national MWA conferences, which are gatherings where people simulate a WA discussion with the goal of passing resolutions and 'improving the world', and also where they can learn and practice proper diplomatic behavior,

ENCOURAGES individual schools in nations to implement MWA clubs in their school,

CREATES an international MWA conference to be held, here at the World Assembly Headquarters, where people from all over the world can engage in a simulation of WA discussion, using proper diplomatic behavior,

HOPING that with the creation of MWA, more children will be interested in the WA and more educated about the WA.


Repeal GAR 165, 'A Model World Assembly"


The World Assembly,

Applauds that this resolution was geared towards the betterment of mankind,

Realizes, however, that no matter the noble intentions, this resolution is neither necessary nor effective,

Recognizes the following flaws in GAR 165:
  • The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the World Assembly as dictated by GAR #80, A Promotion of Basic Education,
  • The resolution does not even effect any mild level of change upon national educational systems as it merely "encourages individual schools in nations to implement (these) in their school," although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,
  • The financial costs and logistical considerations involved in introducing and implementing simulated conferences on the local, national, and international level far outweigh the insignificant benefits that could be accorded by the limited merits of this resolution's purpose,
  • The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ for the purposes of an international conference would be problematic, should GAR#8 World Assembly Headquarters ever be repealed,
  • The clause which "requires member nations to educate people" is so vague that it is unclear as to whether "people" refers to the entire population or to only a select group of individuals; this loophole only technically requires member states educate at least 2 of their people on the subject,

Specifies that the lack of clarity within the resolution's text effectively negates its intended purpose, which was "[T]o improve the world..." - and instead, creates a layer of useless, aimless bureaucracy,

Highlights that the WA has suffered from a distinct lack of common sense on many past occasions; as such, simulation of it may not set a good example for students,

Due to these enumerated reasons,

The World Assembly hereby repeals GAR 165, 'A Model World Assembly'

Co-authored by [nation=short]Mousebumples[/nation]

Zakath looked at the current GA resolution at vote with disgust
Surely we can find better things to do than this ambassadors. What's even worse is that for some reason it is being voted in to law as things currently stand. Here is the response, which I will use if and when "A model world assembly" becomes law.
Code: Select all
The World Assembly,

[i]Applauds[/i] that this resolution was geared towards the betterment of mankind,

[i]Realizes[/i], however, that no matter the noble intentions, this resolution is neither necessary nor effective,

[i]Recognizes[/i] the following flaws in GAR 165:
[list][*]The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the World Assembly as dictated by GAR #80, A Promotion of Basic Education,
[*]The resolution does not even effect any mild level of change upon national educational systems as it merely "encourages individual schools in nations to implement (these) in their school," although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,
[*]The financial costs and logistical considerations involved in introducing and implementing simulated conferences on the local, national, and international level far outweigh the insignificant benefits that could be accorded by the limited merits of this resolution's purpose,
[*]The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ for the purposes of an international conference would be problematic, should GAR#8 World Assembly Headquarters ever be repealed,
[*]The clause which "requires member nations to educate people" is so vague that it is unclear as to whether "people" refers to the entire population or to only a select group of individuals; this loophole only technically requires member states educate at least 2 of their people on the subject,[/list]

[i]Specifies[/i] that the lack of clarity within the resolution's text effectively negates its intended purpose, which was "[T]o improve the world..." - and instead, creates a layer of useless, aimless bureaucracy,

[i]Highlights[/i] that the WA has suffered from a distinct lack of common sense on many past occasions; as such, simulation of it may not set a good example for students,

[i]Due to these enumerated reasons,[/i]

The World Assembly hereby repeals GAR 165, 'A Model World Assembly'

Co-authored by [nation=short]Mousebumples[/nation]
Last edited by Mallorea and Riva on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:12 am, edited 27 times in total.
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Flibbleites
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Postby Flibbleites » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:00 pm

Image
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Bob Flibble
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:03 pm

Flibbleites wrote:(Image)
(Image)

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Indeed. And once it is defeated I will enjoy using this card:
Image
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
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Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
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Charlotte Ryberg
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Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:30 pm

It'll be another resolution to IC'ly declare direct violation to. Don't expect any changes because Minoa's education system has been one of the highest priorities from day one.

Hence we support if said resolution passes.
Last edited by Charlotte Ryberg on Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:44 pm

We do not feel that spending yet another four days discussing a repeal of the resolution currently at vote constitutes "better things to do". Accordingly, we encourage Members opposed to the resolution at vote to instead spend their time campaigning to defeat it.

If this proposal reaches quorum and is put to a vote, the Liberal Unitary Republic will vote against, as we do not feel that the resolution currently at vote is sufficiently flawed to merit an instant repeal. Additionally, the second listed "flaw" is factually incorrect, as the resolution at vote does not "force" nations to partake in a simulation—such simulations are merely recommended.

That being said, we recommend the following technical correction in this proposal's drafting:

The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ assumes that the WAHQ that it will not be legislated out of existence,


[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN WA Ambassador
Citizen of the Rejected Realms

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:58 pm

Goobergunchia wrote:We do not feel that spending yet another four days discussing a repeal of the resolution currently at vote constitutes "better things to do". Accordingly, we encourage Members opposed to the resolution at vote to instead spend their time campaigning to defeat it.

If this proposal reaches quorum and is put to a vote, the Liberal Unitary Republic will vote against, as we do not feel that the resolution currently at vote is sufficiently flawed to merit an instant repeal. Additionally, the second listed "flaw" is factually incorrect, as the resolution at vote does not "force" nations to partake in a simulation—such simulations are merely recommended.

That being said, we recommend the following technical correction in this proposal's drafting:

The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ assumes that the WAHQ that it will not be legislated out of existence,


[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN WA Ambassador
Citizen of the Rejected Realms

The technical point was addressed and fixed.
A resolution need not be only filled with flaws to be deserving of a repeal, one could put forth a resolution which teaches all children the history of anything, which while admirable is ultimately unnecessary, especially since the WA has already legislated on the issue.
The points I raise here have already been raised in the drafting thread, and promptly ignored.

Finally, the waste of time I refer to is not just the four days to vote on the issue, but the time spent maintaining the requirements of the resolution, and the ensuring of its enforcement. The repeal essentially removes duplicative and useless legislation, and saves us the trouble of enforcing it.
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Mahaj
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Postby Mahaj » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:01 pm

:(


[box]
Repeal GAR 165, 'A Model World Assembly"

Recognizes the following flaws in GAR 165 The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the "Festering Snakepit",

Ardchoille wrote:It would be entirely possible to educate kids about "their nation’s governmental policies, processes, civics, rights and freedoms" without touching on the WA; all you've got to do is RP that they were that way before the WA, and attribute them to your own brilliant government. Or you can be a rogue nation that, while being a member, deliberately skates over the entire existence of the WA.
So no, international affairs are not covered.


[*]The resolution does not effect any significant or even mild level of change upon educational systems by forcing them to partake in a "simulation", although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,

So it doesn't cause change, but may cause problems?
[*]A resolution based around introducing a simulated conference into school districts is simply not worth the time and cost to enforce on both the national and international level,

Nothing is enforced on a school level. Conferences aren't even forced upon in the national level.
[*]The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ assumes that the WAHQ that it will not be legislated out of existence,

... this is an argument? That we might not have a headquarters so we should repeal this because it mentions a headquarters? Thats just bunk, and shows you just grasping for straws.
Further believing that the WA has suffered from a distinct lack of common sense, thereby showing that simulating it is not necessarily a good learning method,

A distinct lack of common sense? Are you calling a resolution a 'distinct lack of common sense' in a repeal? This is not Max Barry Day or whatever. And remember? proper diplomatic behavior

Bhai frowned at Zakath. "You made one comment during the debate. Surely you could have done a tad more to be insta-repealing. Its not like you didn't know a submission was coming."
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<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
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<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Mahaj
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Postby Mahaj » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:A resolution need not be only filled with flaws to be deserving of a repeal, one could put forth a resolution which teaches all children the history of anything, which while admirable is ultimately unnecessary, especially since the WA has already legislated on the issue.
The points I raise here have already been raised in the drafting thread, and promptly ignored.

That was history. Not current events/news, which is what this would be about.

Finally, the waste of time I refer to is not just the four days to vote on the issue, but the time spent maintaining the requirements of the resolution, and the ensuring of its enforcement. The repeal essentially removes duplicative and useless legislation, and saves us the trouble of enforcing it.

Oh no, the troubling requirements of educating people about the WA! How horrible!
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<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:17 pm

Mahaj wrote::(


Repeal GAR 165, 'A Model World Assembly"

Recognizes the following flaws in GAR 165 The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the "Festering Snakepit",

Ardchoille wrote:It would be entirely possible to educate kids about "their nation’s governmental policies, processes, civics, rights and freedoms" without touching on the WA; all you've got to do is RP that they were that way before the WA, and attribute them to your own brilliant government. Or you can be a rogue nation that, while being a member, deliberately skates over the entire existence of the WA.
So no, international affairs are not covered.

I will challenge that with this quote from WAR 80:[box]A fair and impartial recollection of historical national and international events, politics and society;

Mahaj wrote:
[*]The resolution does not effect any significant or even mild level of change upon educational systems by forcing them to partake in a "simulation", although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,

So it doesn't cause change, but may cause problems?

Don't build a strawman. It does not introduce significant change, but it could conflict in a significant way when school systems base their methods on other philosophies of learning.

Mahaj wrote:Nothing is enforced on a school level. Conferences aren't even forced upon in the national level.

I never said anything was enforced on a school level, but that is the desire of this resolution, to introduce the MWA to schools, thereby furthering your goal.

Mahaj wrote:... this is an argument? That we might not have a headquarters so we should repeal this because it mentions a headquarters? Thats just bunk, and shows you just grasping for straws.

HoCs violation in my opinion. The WAHQ is the result of legislation passed by this body.

Mahaj wrote:A distinct lack of common sense? Are you calling a resolution a 'distinct lack of common sense' in a repeal? This is not Max Barry Day or whatever. And remember? proper diplomatic behavior

I am implying that this resolution is a part of the overall distinct lack of common sense which often surfaces in the WA, and that we hardly want to introduce our children to such foolishness. You claim this is serious legislation, I cannot help but consider it to be a poor joke.

Mahaj wrote:Bhai frowned at Zakath. "You made one comment during the debate. Surely you could have done a tad more to be insta-repealing. Its not like you didn't know a submission was coming."

OOC: A couple reasons for this, normally I would have attacked it in the thread, and I fully planned on doing so, then I became rather ill this weak. I'm on the mend now though.
IC: At this point I'd rather focus on removing it rather than trying to counter-campaign you, and there is always the chance it will fail on its own. Also I did not think this would come even close to passing.
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Postby Connopolis » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:17 pm

I oppose "A Model World Assembly", as it currently does little, however, in comparison, this repeal looks even more ridiculous. You're grasping at the air for technicalities that don't actually exist within the text.

The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ assumes that the WAHQ will not be legislated out of existence,


This is simply absurd. Children shouldn't be transported to the WAHQ because one day, it might run out of legislation/destroy itself? Couldn't you use that argument against creating the WAHQ in the first place?

Further believing that the WA has suffered from a distinct lack of common sense, thereby showing that simulating it is not necessarily a good learning method,


I feel as if this clause is satirical in nature. Given the fact that this clause simply insults the WA as a whole, I see no added value by implementing it.

The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the "Festering Snakepit",


OOC: Have you ever participated in a science class that conducted experiments, and labs and things of that nature? They do so because material applicability increases learning. Being taught about it is great and all, but experiencing the WA at a younger age fosters diplomacy, and creativity; ( :rofl: ) just as student councils foster leadership.

A resolution based around introducing a simulated conference into school districts is simply not worth the time and cost to enforce on both the national and international level,


You realize that a school could set this up by gathering some kids, having them sit in a classroom at their normal desks, and appointing a volunteer adult advisor? Individual nations do not need to spend any amount of money on this resolution, and if they do, then it would be based on their own prerogative.

Overall, this repeal is 90% false, 5% satire, and 5% rhetoric. There are no actual technicalities in the resolution, therefore, a repeal is unnecessary.

Yours very truly,
Last edited by Connopolis on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:19 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:A resolution need not be only filled with flaws to be deserving of a repeal, one could put forth a resolution which teaches all children the history of anything, which while admirable is ultimately unnecessary, especially since the WA has already legislated on the issue.
The points I raise here have already been raised in the drafting thread, and promptly ignored.

That was history. Not current events/news, which is what this would be about.

Current events and news for the WA becomes history, as do all things.

Mahaj wrote:
Finally, the waste of time I refer to is not just the four days to vote on the issue, but the time spent maintaining the requirements of the resolution, and the ensuring of its enforcement. The repeal essentially removes duplicative and useless legislation, and saves us the trouble of enforcing it.

Oh no, the troubling requirements of educating people about the WA! How horrible!

It is unnecessary and frankly duplicative.
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Mahaj
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Postby Mahaj » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:23 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Mahaj wrote::(



So no, international affairs are not covered.

I will challenge that with this quote from WAR 80:
A fair and impartial recollection of historical national and international events, politics and society;

Still, historical is not news. News is news.

Mahaj wrote:
So it doesn't cause change, but may cause problems?

Don't build a strawman. It does not introduce significant change, but it could conflict in a significant way when school systems base their methods on other philosophies of learning.

So you're trying to tell me that despite 'no change' being implemented it could still 'conflict in a significant way'? My, no change is certainly...changes things.

Mahaj wrote:Nothing is enforced on a school level. Conferences aren't even forced upon in the national level.

I never said anything was enforced on a school level, but that is the desire of this resolution, to introduce the MWA to schools, thereby furthering your goal.

We can all have 'goals' with our resolutions, but we all know that what matters is the text.

Mahaj wrote:... this is an argument? That we might not have a headquarters so we should repeal this because it mentions a headquarters? Thats just bunk, and shows you just grasping for straws.

HoCs violation in my opinion. The WAHQ is the result of legislation passed by this body.

It is also an abbreviation for a World Assembly Head Quarters, and one will almost certainly always exist. The fact that you're repealing this in part because we could not have a headquarters at some point is ludicrous.

Mahaj wrote:A distinct lack of common sense? Are you calling a resolution a 'distinct lack of common sense' in a repeal? This is not Max Barry Day or whatever. And remember? proper diplomatic behavior

I am implying that this resolution is a part of the overall distinct lack of common sense which often surfaces in the WA, and that we hardly want to introduce our children to such foolishness. You claim this is serious legislation, I cannot help but consider it to be a poor joke.

You consider it a poor joke. But i spent time drafting it, and I never intended it to be a joke. That was clear from the get-go. Anybody thinking this was a joke is similar to those lump of people that claimed this would harm children/whatever.

Mahaj wrote:Bhai frowned at Zakath. "You made one comment during the debate. Surely you could have done a tad more to be insta-repealing. Its not like you didn't know a submission was coming."

OOC: A couple reasons for this, normally I would have attacked it in the thread, and I fully planned on doing so, then I became rather ill this weak. I'm on the mend now though.
IC: At this point I'd rather focus on removing it rather than trying to counter-campaign you, and there is always the chance it will fail on its own. Also I did not think this would come even close to passing.

OOC: Yeah, I know you were ill. *hugs*
IC: I see. A chance, yes.
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Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:24 pm

Connopolis wrote:I oppose "A Model World Assembly", as it currently does little, however, in comparison, this repeal looks even more ridiculous. You're grasping at the air for technicalities that don't actually exist within the text.

The clause which requires the transporting of children to the WAHQ assumes that the WAHQ will not be legislated out of existence,


This is simply absurd. Children shouldn't be transported to the WAHQ because one day, it might run out of legislation/destroy itself? Couldn't you use that argument against creating the WAHQ in the first place?

OOC: An IC way to address a HoC problem.

Connopolis wrote:
Further believing that the WA has suffered from a distinct lack of common sense, thereby showing that simulating it is not necessarily a good learning method,


I feel as if this clause is satirical in nature. Given the fact that this clause simply insults the WA as a whole, I see no added value by implementing it.

If this resolution is as idiotic as you proclaim, then you have in fact proven my point.

Connopolis wrote:
The General Assembly already dictates that nations must teach their students about international and national affairs, meaning students are already taught about the "Festering Snakepit",


OOC: Have you ever participated in a science class that conducted experiments, and labs and things of that nature? They do so because material applicability increases learning. Being taught about it is great and all, but experiencing the WA at a younger age fosters diplomacy, and creativity; ( :rofl: ) just as student councils foster leadership.

OOC: Let's keep it IC for this as much as possible, otherwise it's kind of hard to continue the debate.
IC: Are we training every student to become a Delegate or Ambassador within the WA? Absolutely not. Those skills are learned through debate teams, and thousands of other activities including many outside of school.

Connopolis wrote:
A resolution based around introducing a simulated conference into school districts is simply not worth the time and cost to enforce on both the national and international level,


You realize that a school could set this up by gather some kids, having them sit in a classroom at their normal desks, and appoint a volunteer adult advisor? Individual nations do not need to spend any amount of money on this resolution, and if they do, then it would be based on their own prerogative.

Right. You are in violation of the Read the Resolution Act if you think that no time or funding will be required to enforce this.

Connopolis wrote:Overall, this repeal is 90% false, 5% satire, and 5% rhetoric. There are no actual technicalities in the resolution, therefore, a repeal is unnecessary.

Yours very truly,

Marvelous.
Ideological Bulwark #253
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Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
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Mahaj
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Postby Mahaj » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:25 pm

[quote]CREATES an international MWA conference to be held, here at the World Assembly Headquarters, where people from all over the world can engage in a simulation of WA discussion, using proper diplomatic behavior,[/quote[
the World Assembly Headquarters. Wherever they are, whichever they are, the WA Headquarters.
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Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Mallorea and Riva
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:32 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:I will challenge that with this quote from WAR 80:
A fair and impartial recollection of historical national and international events, politics and society;

Still, historical is not news. News is news.

REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly

Nowhere have you enforced what you are claiming right now. You merely require that clause, which has a definite historical slant, since news and history become synonymous.
REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly
Mahaj wrote:
So it doesn't cause change, but may cause problems?

Don't build a strawman. It does not introduce significant change, but it could conflict in a significant way when school systems base their methods on other philosophies of learning.

So you're trying to tell me that despite 'no change' being implemented it could still 'conflict in a significant way'? My, no change is certainly...changes things.[/quote]
Did I say no change? No. Address the argument being made, or don't address it at all.

Mahaj wrote:
I never said anything was enforced on a school level, but that is the desire of this resolution, to introduce the MWA to schools, thereby furthering your goal.

We can all have 'goals' with our resolutions, but we all know that what matters is the text.

Yes and the text is lacking in both substance and purpose. Your goal is to create the MWA, to further education within the schools, to educate the leaders of tomorrow. Grand. But nowhere do you actually cause this to happen.

Mahaj wrote:
HoCs violation in my opinion. The WAHQ is the result of legislation passed by this body.

It is also an abbreviation for a World Assembly Head Quarters, and one will almost certainly always exist. The fact that you're repealing this in part because we could not have a headquarters at some point is ludicrous.

The fact that you based a clause of your resolution on something that can cause it to become nonsensical in the future is ludicrous. I am merely pointing out the obviousness of the truth.

Mahaj wrote:
I am implying that this resolution is a part of the overall distinct lack of common sense which often surfaces in the WA, and that we hardly want to introduce our children to such foolishness. You claim this is serious legislation, I cannot help but consider it to be a poor joke.

You consider it a poor joke. But i spent time drafting it, and I never intended it to be a joke. That was clear from the get-go. Anybody thinking this was a joke is similar to those lump of people that claimed this would harm children/whatever.

Ambassador you'll note that I did not include "think of the children" lines, although I did contemplate it.

Mahaj wrote:
OOC: A couple reasons for this, normally I would have attacked it in the thread, and I fully planned on doing so, then I became rather ill this weak. I'm on the mend now though.
IC: At this point I'd rather focus on removing it rather than trying to counter-campaign you, and there is always the chance it will fail on its own. Also I did not think this would come even close to passing.

OOC: Yeah, I know you were ill. *hugs*
IC: I see. A chance, yes.

OOC: :hug: May the better student win.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
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Mallorea and Riva
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Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:33 pm

Mahaj wrote:
CREATES an international MWA conference to be held, here at the World Assembly Headquarters, where people from all over the world can engage in a simulation of WA discussion, using proper diplomatic behavior,

the World Assembly Headquarters. Wherever they are, whichever they are, the WA Headquarters.

False. The text says what the text says. And the text says HERE AT THE WAHQ.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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Connopolis
Minister
 
Posts: 2371
Founded: May 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Connopolis » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:OOC: An IC way to address a HoC problem.


If the resolution has made it to vote, it's deemed legal. You can't repeal a resolution for being illegal, (given that's why you're mentioning this in the first place).

If this resolution is as idiotic as you proclaim, then you have in fact proven my point.


I was actually referring to the repeal, not the resolution. Although I think the resolution is a bit time-consuming as well. :blush:

OOC: Let's keep it IC for this as much as possible, otherwise it's kind of hard to continue the debate.
IC: Are we training every student to become a Delegate or Ambassador within the WA? Absolutely not. Those skills are learned through debate teams, and thousands of other activities including many outside of school.


OOC: Just saying. :roll:
IC: No, we're training them to be successful. Should they choose to partake in the MWA, then that's their prerogative - at least let the option exist. Simply denying them that option because they might not be Ambassadors is like saying children shouldn't learn how to read because they might never have to pick up a book.

Right. You are in violation of the Read the Resolution Act if you think that no time or funding will be required to enforce this.


Would you mind pointing out which parts of the resolution requires spending at a national level? :eyebrow:

Marvelous.


I know. 8)

Yours in giving children various career options,
From the office of,
Mrs. Pamela Howell
GA Ambassador of the Connopolian Ministry of Foreign Affairs


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Mallorea and Riva
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Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:42 pm

Connopolis wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:OOC: An IC way to address a HoC problem.


If the resolution has made it to vote, it's deemed legal. You can't repeal a resolution for being illegal, (given that's why you're mentioning this in the first place).

If this resolution is as idiotic as you proclaim, then you have in fact proven my point.


I was actually referring to the repeal, not the resolution. Although I think the resolution is a bit time-consuming as well. :blush:

Still proving my point. It's a classic Catch-22.

Connopolis wrote:
OOC: Let's keep it IC for this as much as possible, otherwise it's kind of hard to continue the debate.
IC: Are we training every student to become a Delegate or Ambassador within the WA? Absolutely not. Those skills are learned through debate teams, and thousands of other activities including many outside of school.


OOC: Just saying. :roll:
IC: No, we're training them to be successful. Should they choose to partake in the MWA, then that's their prerogative - at least let the option exist. Simply denying them that option because they might not be Ambassadors is like saying children shouldn't learn how to read because they might never have to pick up a book.

Trade school based nations would have no time for this. Let us implement an international flag football league, to further the goals of... But I digress.

Connopolis wrote:
Right. You are in violation of the Read the Resolution Act if you think that no time or funding will be required to enforce this.


Would you mind pointing out which parts of the resolution requires spending at a national level? :eyebrow:

Any government action requires funding.

Connopolis wrote:
Marvelous.


I know. 8)

Yours in giving children various career options,

Yours in being able to administer my own educational system,
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
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Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
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Mahaj
Senator
 
Posts: 4110
Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:43 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Mahaj wrote:Still, historical is not news. News is news.

REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly

Nowhere have you enforced what you are claiming right now. You merely require that clause, which has a definite historical slant, since news and history become synonymous.

How is educating about the role of the WA historical? Yes, you could legislate on the historical role, but it also has a very current impact. And doings, especially. Like, i dunno "The WA just passed this law, class. Lets see what it does."
Don't build a strawman. It does not introduce significant change, but it could conflict in a significant way when school systems base their methods on other philosophies of learning.

So you're trying to tell me that despite 'no change' being implemented it could still 'conflict in a significant way'? My, no change is certainly...changes things.

Did I say no change? No. Address the argument being made, or don't address it at all.[/quote]
Lets see the argument...
The resolution does not effect any significant or even mild level of change upon educational systems by encouraging them to partake in a "simulation", although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,

So, it does not effect any significant changes, or even mild level of changes, but can cause significant problems? I didn't know insignificance was so significant.


Mahaj wrote:We can all have 'goals' with our resolutions, but we all know that what matters is the text.

Yes and the text is lacking in both substance and purpose. Your goal is to create the MWA, to further education within the schools, to educate the leaders of tomorrow. Grand. But nowhere do you actually cause this to happen.

Due to objections. So I went with this. And now your objection is that it doesn't go... far enough? No, its not. Its that enforcing things on a level would be a waste, despite the fact that they *aren't required to*.

Mahaj wrote:It is also an abbreviation for a World Assembly Head Quarters, and one will almost certainly always exist. The fact that you're repealing this in part because we could not have a headquarters at some point is ludicrous.

The fact that you based a clause of your resolution on something that can cause it to become nonsensical in the future is ludicrous. I am merely pointing out the obviousness of the truth.

OOC: I believe we're addressing this on IRC right now, but because it says 'here at' the HQ, it could be wherever the document is.

Mahaj wrote:You consider it a poor joke. But i spent time drafting it, and I never intended it to be a joke. That was clear from the get-go. Anybody thinking this was a joke is similar to those lump of people that claimed this would harm children/whatever.

Ambassador you'll note that I did not include "think of the children" lines, although I did contemplate it.

Yeah, thank god. I'm surprised.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Connopolis
Minister
 
Posts: 2371
Founded: May 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Connopolis » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:48 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:Still proving my point. It's a classic Catch-22.


Might I be so presumptuous as to ask what your point is in the first place?

Trade school based nations would have no time for this. Let us implement an international flag football league, to further the goals of... But I digress.


Oh, you silly NatSovs, and your nonsensical comparisons between recreational sports and international diplomacy/politics.

Any government action requires funding.


Might you be so inclined as to point out the clause that requires this behemoth amount of funding? I'd be anxious to read it.

Yours in being able to administer my own educational system,


Yours in helping children, despite NatSov whining,
From the office of,
Mrs. Pamela Howell
GA Ambassador of the Connopolian Ministry of Foreign Affairs


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Dizyntk
Minister
 
Posts: 2699
Founded: Aug 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Dizyntk » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:51 pm

Oh, you silly NatSovs, and your nonsensical comparisons between recreational sports and international diplomacy/politics.


"Nonsensical? Really? I always thought politics WAS a recreational sport."
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What is a Dizyntk you ask? Dizyntk Info
Cyanka is the Dizyntk year and is equal to 18 earth months. Do your own math.

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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9237
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:54 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:
REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly

Nowhere have you enforced what you are claiming right now. You merely require that clause, which has a definite historical slant, since news and history become synonymous.

How is educating about the role of the WA historical? Yes, you could legislate on the historical role, but it also has a very current impact. And doings, especially. Like, i dunno "The WA just passed this law, class. Lets see what it does."

Which would be countered by the fact that current events are ensured by the freedom of the press.
Mahaj wrote:
So you're trying to tell me that despite 'no change' being implemented it could still 'conflict in a significant way'? My, no change is certainly...changes things.

Did I say no change? No. Address the argument being made, or don't address it at all.

Lets see the argument...
The resolution does not effect any significant or even mild level of change upon educational systems by encouraging them to partake in a "simulation", although it may cause significant problems when nations' educational philosophies are based around other methods of learning,

So, it does not effect any significant changes, or even mild level of changes, but can cause significant problems? I didn't know insignificance was so significant. [/quote]
If I took an insignificant comma, and put it somewhere it did not belong in an important document, it could vastly change the meaning.

Mahaj wrote:
Yes and the text is lacking in both substance and purpose. Your goal is to create the MWA, to further education within the schools, to educate the leaders of tomorrow. Grand. But nowhere do you actually cause this to happen.

Due to objections. So I went with this. And now your objection is that it doesn't go... far enough? No, its not. Its that enforcing things on a level would be a waste, despite the fact that they *aren't required to*.

It's ineffective as well as unneeded is my point.

Mahaj wrote:
The fact that you based a clause of your resolution on something that can cause it to become nonsensical in the future is ludicrous. I am merely pointing out the obviousness of the truth.

OOC: I believe we're addressing this on IRC right now, but because it says 'here at' the HQ, it could be wherever the document is.

Speculation. If the WAHQ is repealed, then there would be no official WAHQ.

Mahaj wrote:
Ambassador you'll note that I did not include "think of the children" lines, although I did contemplate it.

Yeah, thank god. I'm surprised.

This is not intended to be insulting, ambassador. It's simply politics.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
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Astro-Malsitari WA Seat
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 371
Founded: Sep 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Astro-Malsitari WA Seat » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:55 pm

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:It'll be another resolution to IC'ly declare direct violation to. Don't expect any changes because Minoa's education system has been one of the highest priorities from day one.

Hence we support if said resolution passes.


Wait, why would you need to violate it? The only actual requirement is that you educate 'people'. Surely Ms. Harper counts as a 'person'?

Dizyntk wrote:
Oh, you silly NatSovs, and your nonsensical comparisons between recreational sports and international diplomacy/politics.


"Nonsensical? Really? I always thought politics WAS a recreational sport."


I agree. And I'm an evil communist puppy-hater IntFed.

Giovanni Romero
Representative from Astrolinium
Senior Ambassador for the Astro-Malsitari WA Seat
Representing the interests of Malsitar and Astrolinium in the World Assembly
| The Sublime Island Kingdom of Astrolinium | Ambassador to the WA: Dr. Giovanni Romero, PhD | Chief Justice and Vice Magister of The South |
| The Unified Federal Republics of Malsitar | Ambassador to the WA: Dr. Chandler Whitt, LLD | Citizen of Spiritus |
And of course, Giovanni's illegitimate child and everyone's favorite pervy teen, Melvin Ruiz Walsh-Romero!

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Goobergunchia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 1623
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Goobergunchia » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:00 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:A resolution need not be only filled with flaws to be deserving of a repeal, one could put forth a resolution which teaches all children the history of anything, which while admirable is ultimately unnecessary, especially since the WA has already legislated on the issue.
The points I raise here have already been raised in the drafting thread, and promptly ignored.

Finally, the waste of time I refer to is not just the four days to vote on the issue, but the time spent maintaining the requirements of the resolution, and the ensuring of its enforcement. The repeal essentially removes duplicative and useless legislation, and saves us the trouble of enforcing it.


While we acknowledge that there are many reasons to seek repeal of a resolution, we do not feel that it is appropriate to do so immediately after it is passed unless there is substantial reason to believe that the vote will be different. This proposal brings nothing to the table that could not be addressed in the 3 days 7 hours remaining for the current vote. The resolution at vote currently leads by only 563 votes, and it is easy to see it falling to a concerted effort.

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN WA Ambassador
Citizen, The Rejected Realms

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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9237
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:00 pm

Connopolis wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Still proving my point. It's a classic Catch-22.


Might I be so presumptuous as to ask what your point is in the first place?

It was twofold, the implication that the original resolution was foolish, and the statement that such foolishness would inevitably be mocked by children learning of it.

Connopolis wrote:
Trade school based nations would have no time for this. Let us implement an international flag football league, to further the goals of... But I digress.


Oh, you silly NatSovs, and your nonsensical comparisons between recreational sports and international diplomacy/politics.

Fascinating counterargument. Comparing a game with a game, seems a fair enough comparison to me.

Connopolis wrote:
Any government action requires funding.


Might you be so inclined as to point out the clause that requires this behemoth amount of funding? I'd be anxious to read it.

Never did I say behemoth. And you still neglect the time aspect being wasted.
REQUIRES member nations to educate people about the role and doings of the World Assembly,

RECOMMENDS that nations implement national MWA conferences, which are gatherings where people simulate a WA discussion with the goal of passing resolutions and 'improving the world', and also where they can learn and practice proper diplomatic behavior,



Connopolis wrote:
Yours in being able to administer my own educational system,


Yours in helping children, despite NatSov whining,

Yours in whining,
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Major and Field Marshal of The Black Hawks
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Jakker, Tal, and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: "I don't think chatting with someone over the Internet about casual topics falls under faithful or unfaithful. :<"

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