[Second Draft] Legalizing Prostitution

[Great Azarath]

And sex trafficking is illegal under a already passed resolution

[Dizyntk]

"That is a very fallacious argument, Ambassador. Prostittution, even in nations where it has been legalized, has been shown to have a direct correlation to trafficking rates increasing. Nothing, to my knowledge, links music and murder rates. If you are going to make an argument for this proposal then I suggest you make one that does not make it look sillier than it is."

Ambassador? I am not an ambassador. I was just randomly chosen to be sent here... it's complicated. Anyway, I may not be a fancy ambassador, but I DO know that ya require statistics to back up an argument. Give me some citations on this correlation.

"If you insist."

Legalized or decriminalized prostitution industries are one of the root causes of sex trafficking. One argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that legalization would help end the exploitation of desperate immigrant women trafficked for prostitution. A report done for the governmental Budapest Group* stated that 80% of women in the brothels in the Netherlands are trafficked from other countries (Budapest Group, 1999: 11). As early as 1994, the International Organization of Migration (IOM) stated that in the Netherlands alone, nearly 70 per cent of trafficked women were from CEEC [Central and Eastern European Countries] (IOM, 1995: 4).

The government of the Netherlands promotes itself as the champion of anti-trafficking policies and programs, yet cynically has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procurement and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued for a legal quota of foreign sex workers, because the Dutch prostitution market demands a variety of bodies (Dutting, 2001: 16). Also in the year 2000, the Dutch government sought and received a judgment from the European Court recognizing prostitution as an economic activity, thus enabling women from the EU and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as sex workers in the Dutch sex industry if they can prove that they are self employed. NGOs in the Netherlands have stated that traffickers are taking advantage of this ruling to bring foreign women into the Dutch prostitution industry by masking the fact that women have been trafficked, and by coaching the women how to prove that they are self-employed migrant sex workers.

In the one year since lifting the ban on brothels in the Netherlands, NGOs report that there has been an increase of victims of trafficking or, at best, that the number of victims from other countries has remained the same (Bureau NRM, 2002: 75). Forty-three municipalities in the Netherlands want to follow a no-brothel policy, but the Minister of Justice has indicated that the complete banning of prostitution within any municipality could conflict with the right to free choice of work (Bureau NRM: 2002) as guaranteed in the federal Grondwet or Constitution.

In January, 2002, prostitution in Germany was fully established as a legitimate job after years of being legalized in so-called eros or tolerance zones. Promotion of prostitution, pimping and brothels are now legal in Germany. As early as 1993, after the first steps towards legalization had been taken, it was recognized (even by pro-prostitution advocates) that 75 per cent of the women in Germany's prostitution industry were foreigners from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and other countries in South America (Altink, 1993: 33). After the fall of the Berlin wall, brothel owners reported that 9 out of every 10 women in the German sex industry were from eastern Europe (Altink, 1993: 43) and other former Soviet countries.

The sheer volume of foreign women who are in the prostitution industry in Germany, by some NGO estimates now up to 85 per cent, casts further doubt on the fact that these numbers of women could have entered Germany without facilitation. As in the Netherlands, NGOs report that most of the foreign women have been trafficked into the country since it is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in business without outside help.

The link between legalization of prostitution and trafficking in Australia was recognized in the U.S. State Department's 1999 Country Report on Human Rights Practices, released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. In the country report on Australia, it was noted that in the State of Victoria which legalized prostitution in the 1980s, trafficking in East Asian women for the sex trade is a growing problem in Australia. Lax laws, including legalized prostitution in parts of the country, make [anti-trafficking] enforcement difficult at the working level.

[Xanthal]

BEINGS! Please, get on topic. Edit the purposal

Listen; the people you have arguing against you here are against making prostitution legal across the WA. Asking them to modify the proposal so they'd find it acceptable while denying any attempt to remove the mandate for legalization is like asking someone who is pro-life how you can modify a proposal to legalize abortion for all women so that they'd vote for it. You're missing the point: they won't. They never will. I hate to be such a mean voice, and I apologize if I sound harsh, but I can't help but feel you're failing to grasp that the reason people aren't interested in helping you write your proposal is because they disagree with the premise, not the details.

Riley Fluffer

[Dizyntk]

And sex trafficking is illegal under a already passed resolution

"Just because something is illegal does not mean it will not happen. Murder, rape, theft and other things are illegal yet they still take place."

[Great Azarath]

BEINGS! Please, get on topic. Edit the purposal

Listen; the people you have arguing against you here are against making prostitution legal across the WA. Asking them to modify the proposal so they'd find it acceptable while denying any attempt to remove the mandate for legalization is like asking someone who is pro-life how you can modify a proposal to legalize abortion for all women so that they'd vote for it. You're missing the point: they won't. They never will. I hate to be such a mean voice, and I apologize if I sound harsh, but I can't help but feel you're failing to grasp that the reason people aren't interested in helping you write your proposal is because they disagree with the premise, not the details.

Riley Fluffer

I understand that, it's just if you aren't going to help then there is no reason to be on this thread taking up space and ranting about stuff that has nothing to do with this.

[Dizyntk]

Listen; the people you have arguing against you here are against making prostitution legal across the WA. Asking them to modify the proposal so they'd find it acceptable while denying any attempt to remove the mandate for legalization is like asking someone who is pro-life how you can modify a proposal to legalize abortion for all women so that they'd vote for it. You're missing the point: they won't. They never will. I hate to be such a mean voice, and I apologize if I sound harsh, but I can't help but feel you're failing to grasp that the reason people aren't interested in helping you write your proposal is because they disagree with the premise, not the details.

Riley Fluffer

I understand that, it's just if you aren't going to help then there is no reason to be on this thread taking up space and ranting about stuff that has nothing to do with this.

"Obviously you have no idea how the WA works. The entire point of our debating against you is to sway those nations that may be undecided on this matter to our point of view. Saying that if we do not agree with you we need to stop debating against you is a very childish attitude and will do nothing to help convince others of your beliefs."

[Xanthal]

...if we were to ban anything that harms people, we might as well ban smoking and alcohol.

Why not just educate them about the dangers?

Well, some States in Xanthal do ban those things, but that's beside the point. As I've already stated, I'm not advocating a ban on prostitution, I'm advocating regulation of the forms and practices of prostitution which cause the greatest harm; to the prostitutes, the clients, and the larger society. In that regard my own thoughts are not, I'd venture, far from those of the author. The major difference is that I see no cause or justification to tell WA members that they have to legalize prostitution. I have yet to hear an argument that would convince me such an action was necessary or wise.

Riley Fluffer

[Great Azarath]

And sex trafficking is illegal under a already passed resolution

"Just because something is illegal does not mean it will not happen. Murder, rape, theft and other things are illegal yet they still take place."

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

[Great Azarath]

Can you guys tell me the main reason you oppose this resolution?

[Separatist Peoples]

Listen; the people you have arguing against you here are against making prostitution legal across the WA. Asking them to modify the proposal so they'd find it acceptable while denying any attempt to remove the mandate for legalization is like asking someone who is pro-life how you can modify a proposal to legalize abortion for all women so that they'd vote for it. You're missing the point: they won't. They never will. I hate to be such a mean voice, and I apologize if I sound harsh, but I can't help but feel you're failing to grasp that the reason people aren't interested in helping you write your proposal is because they disagree with the premise, not the details.

Riley Fluffer

I understand that, it's just if you aren't going to help then there is no reason to be on this thread taking up space and ranting about stuff that has nothing to do with this.

Because if we don't keep voicing our concerns, you might get the idea that this entire proposal is a good idea, that it isn't riddled with moral presumptions, and that it has anything that could be described as 'support'.

Also, short of allowing nations to ban prostitution, there is nothing that could change our vote from a solid OPPOSED. Even if you included that, we would simply abstain.

[Separatist Peoples]

Can you guys tell me the main reason you oppose this resolution?

Main reason? There are a plethora of reasons. It is invasive. Many nations find prostitution morally repugnant. Many nations wish to protect their citizens from such activities, and you are restricting that. Many nations wish to control business transactions within their nation, and you are restricting that. This is not an international issue. There are too many loopholes. The list goes on and on. Honestly, there isn't just one main one.

[Dizyntk]

"Just because something is illegal does not mean it will not happen. Murder, rape, theft and other things are illegal yet they still take place."

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

"Yes, but your proposal would give these lawbreakers a legal business to hide behind making their apprehension all the more difficult. You are simply making it easier for these types of criminals to skirt the law. I hope that makes you happy."

[Charlotte Ryberg]

"Just because something is illegal does not mean it will not happen. Murder, rape, theft and other things are illegal yet they still take place."

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

Some countries won't be able to enforce it properly if they cannot ban prostitution in certain areas, or certain types of prostitution.

[Dilange]

"Just because something is illegal does not mean it will not happen. Murder, rape, theft and other things are illegal yet they still take place."

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

But is in fact similar. Sex trafficking can go under the guise of prostitution and be completely legal.

[Cilef]

human right of prostitution

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Prostitution is not a human right. Absolutely not. Human rights are things like the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to food and clean water. Don't even think about adding prostitution to that list. It doesn't even come close to the importance of a human right.

must abide to the following statements

I disagree with the purpose of the resolution to begin with, but correct grammar here would be "abide by".

via mail

Archaeic and obsolete, surely?

PROHIBITS the following[...]For any government to stop a prostitute from his/her/its profession.

If it's legalised, they can't stop them anyway, and this is a dangerous loophole allowing such things as "sue the government because they stopped them having sex to evacuate them from a burning building". Further, it should be "any government official".

This resolution RECCOMENDS the following [...] Prostitutes are involved with brothels for safety.

What does that have to do with the government? Or does it recommend (not reccomend) the creation of government-run brothels?

Overall, frankly, this seems to me a poorly considered resolution, and thoroughly unneeded - perhaps the honoured delegate would be so good as to remember the scope of the world assembly versus a single nation. We are not trying to create a single set of laws for the entire world. Each nation is different.

[Speculine]

it's just if you aren't going to help then there is no reason to be on this thread taking up space and ranting about stuff that has nothing to do with this.

After much debating it does appear that the best approach is to stop trying to force prostitution on nations that do not want it.

As your own poll shows, the majority are fully against your proposition. Many oppose on the sense of basic national sovereignty. This is an issue for individual nations to decide upon for their nation only.

Our advice is to let this go, admit a NatSov win, and just leave prostitution legal within your own nation. Then everyone would be happy.

That is all the help I can provide.

OOC: On a personal note, I have taken much delight in entertaining ideas on how to loophole around this if it were to pass. Ideas like; prostitution would only pay minimum wage with no tips, prostitution is legal only if the being is above 80 (human) years old, that a prostitute would need at least three related advanced physics degrees, all proceeds from brothels are immediately channeled into celibacy awareness propaganda, and that all brothels would also be placed directly next to all places of religious worship. While I would never enact such policies it has been greatly amusing. Thanks for all the laughs and better luck on your next proposal.

[Great Azarath]

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

"Yes, but your proposal would give these lawbreakers a legal business to hide behind making their apprehension all the more difficult. You are simply making it easier for these types of criminals to skirt the law. I hope that makes you happy."

Well if this is passed, then instead of prostitutes just taking it. they can actually go to authorties for help. If it isnt, then still, like you said, it will happen and prostitutes cant do anything about it

[Dizyntk]

"Yes, but your proposal would give these lawbreakers a legal business to hide behind making their apprehension all the more difficult. You are simply making it easier for these types of criminals to skirt the law. I hope that makes you happy."

Well if this is passed, then instead of prostitutes just taking it. they can actually go to authorties for help. If it isnt, then still, like you said, it will happen and prostitutes cant do anything about it

"I think that my comment went right over your head because you have completely missed the point of it."

[Great Azarath]

it's just if you aren't going to help then there is no reason to be on this thread taking up space and ranting about stuff that has nothing to do with this.

After much debating it does appear that the best approach is to stop trying to force prostitution on nations that do not want it.

As your own poll shows, the majority are fully against your proposition. Many oppose on the sense of basic national sovereignty. This is an issue for individual nations to decide upon for their nation only.

Our advice is to let this go, admit a NatSov win, and just leave prostitution legal within your own nation. Then everyone would be happy.

That is all the help I can provide.

OOC: On a personal note, I have taken much delight in entertaining ideas on how to loophole around this if it were to pass. Ideas like; prostitution would only pay minimum wage with no tips, prostitution is legal only if the being is above 80 (human) years old, that a prostitute would need at least three related advanced physics degrees, all proceeds from brothels are immediately channeled into celibacy awareness propaganda, and that all brothels would also be placed directly next to all places of religious worship. While I would never enact such policies it has been greatly amusing. Thanks for all the laughs and better luck on your next proposal.

None of that is said in my resolution. If you want to do that then you can. I mean all that stuff is useless. It doesnt conflict it doesnt make sense to me. Those loopholes I mean

[Speculine]

None of that is said in my resolution. If you want to do that then you can. I mean all that stuff is useless. It doesnt conflict it doesnt make sense to me. Those loopholes I mean

OOC: I know the loopholes don't conflict, that's the entire point...

[Separatist Peoples]

After much debating it does appear that the best approach is to stop trying to force prostitution on nations that do not want it.

As your own poll shows, the majority are fully against your proposition. Many oppose on the sense of basic national sovereignty. This is an issue for individual nations to decide upon for their nation only.

Our advice is to let this go, admit a NatSov win, and just leave prostitution legal within your own nation. Then everyone would be happy.

That is all the help I can provide.

OOC: On a personal note, I have taken much delight in entertaining ideas on how to loophole around this if it were to pass. Ideas like; prostitution would only pay minimum wage with no tips, prostitution is legal only if the being is above 80 (human) years old, that a prostitute would need at least three related advanced physics degrees, all proceeds from brothels are immediately channeled into celibacy awareness propaganda, and that all brothels would also be placed directly next to all places of religious worship. While I would never enact such policies it has been greatly amusing. Thanks for all the laughs and better luck on your next proposal.

None of that is said in my resolution. If you want to do that then you can. I mean all that stuff is useless. It doesnt conflict it doesnt make sense to me. Those loopholes I mean

What do you mean? Those loopholes are meant to practically ban prostitution without legally doing it, if your proposal were to pass. Proof that your proposal is full of gaping holes.

I hope its clear enough to you that nations are so against this proposal that they have devoted so much time to loophole the proposal into uselessness. We seriously suggest you drop the concept.

[Alqania]

"Yes, but your proposal would give these lawbreakers a legal business to hide behind making their apprehension all the more difficult. You are simply making it easier for these types of criminals to skirt the law. I hope that makes you happy."

Well if this is passed, then instead of prostitutes just taking it. they can actually go to authorties for help. If it isnt, then still, like you said, it will happen and prostitutes cant do anything about it

"Your Excellency assumes that prostitutes are considered perpetrators where prostitution is criminalised. That is not always the case; there are states that criminalise pimping and the purchase of sex but not the act of selling sex. In such a system, a prostitute is considered a victim and entitled to all the help and assistance that other crime victims are."

[Dizyntk]

I hope its clear enough to you that nations are so against this proposal that they have devoted so much time to loophole the proposal into uselessness. We seriously suggest you drop the concept.

"We agree completely. As Ambassador SaDiablo has pointed out, this thing is so riddled with loopholes that..." Feyalisa stops and thinks for a moment. "On second thought, why not pass it? If it is passed with it's current wording, you would never find a legal prostitute in the entirety of the Imperium and we would still be in compliance. I do so love laws like that." Thinks a little more. "Of course I could never officially support it you understand. I do have standards to maintain."

[Izarius]

Being paid for sex is legal in Izarius, though paying for sex and pimping is not.

Nevertheless, we believe that it is up to each sovereign country to decide wether to legalize prostitution or not.

[Great Azarath]

Yeah it's up to you to enforce it. It was illegal in the past and it is still illegal.

But is in fact similar. Sex trafficking can go under the guise of prostitution and be completely legal.

No, it can. Its against someones will. Its illegal, it's rape. And that is illegal