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Yet another 'Legalize It!' Proposal...

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Vocatus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vocatus » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:33 pm

Enheightening wrote:
Vocatus wrote:That may be your governing philosophy, but we reserve the right to protect our citizens from things that would harm them. And among the many rights enshrined in our Constitution, the right to ingest harmful substances is not one.


While I do not think that my governing philosophy should become your own, I do not think that this difference of opinion negates the fact that this body is entitled and burdened with the authority to vote on such matters. Would you care to define 'harmful,' friend, so that perhaps I could be more specific about which substances I wish to legalize? Or...

-Smiling now, Jon's eyes were beginning to glaze over with that all too familiar and comforting watery fog. Licking his lips, and pondering why he hadn't bothered to bring a drink with him, he let billow out another exhale.-

Or perhaps safety is only a shining knight that conservatives use to champion their cause? Make no mistake... I do not wish to legalize drugs that will promote violence or lack of safety. I do, however, recognize marijuana (for example,) as being fairly harmless. Not only will you fall asleep before you overdose from it (as sure a thing as no human can kill themselves by holding their breath,) but it has no dabilitating effects. If it is mildly unhealthy it is no moreso than alcohol, and should be provisioned with no more caution.

If, in fact, one were to argue that drugs cause crime then I would venture a guess that legalizing it would serve to lessen crime in as much a way as lifting prohibition of alcohol might for a country. Furthermore, it is another thing for nation's to tax. It is another industry that will add to the agriculture and beauty of a nation rather than fill its sky with smog.


-One of the Vocatian delegates activates a fan, harmlessly dispersing the foul, drug-filled smoke just short of the Vocatian table.

We highly doubt that lifting the prohibition on alcohol would serve to decrease the crime rate in our country as it's almost zero currently despite the fact that we ban all mind-altering substances, including all intoxicants, depressants, and any stimulant stronger than coffee. Nothing that permanently harms the body or, especially, the brain, is or will be permitted within our borders.

We hope you will allow us to break down some of the common arguments for legalization of drugs.

Firstly, we will not allow economic considerations to stand before the health and safety of our citizens. And even if we did, those who would potentially be employed in the drug industry currently hold gainful jobs elsewhere, so we don't see how it would increase tax revenue in any case.

Secondly, we will not allow our national policy to be dictated by smugglers. You will find that when we pass a law we take all necessary measures to enforce it. And unlike so many other problems, crime is an issue which can be combated directly and forcefully, leading to its utter elimination. If people attempt to smuggle and manufacture controlled substances, those people will be arrested. End of issue.

Now, as to the core of the issue: does a government have the right to dictate to its citizens whether or not they can input drugs into their body. For some governments, perhaps ones whose soul function is to prevent people from infringing on each others' rights, the answer may be no. For others, whose functions include ensuring the health and common good of their citizens, the answer may well be yes. The WA is not solely a democratic body, after all. Its ranks include monarchies, theocracies, anarchies, nation-sized corporations, and in our case a Bureaucracy. The proper scope and powers of government differ from one member state to another.

We know what you are trying to do, Honored Ambassador. But your passionate rhetoric cannot cancel out the ill effects of the substances you advocate, nor can it break the trust bestowed upon us by our founding documents. We will protect our people.

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Enheightening
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:03 pm

BEMOANING the fact that religion and art has slowly waned in the modern face of logic and science.

BELIEVING that creativity, invention, and "outside-the-box" thinking can be rejuvenated through the legalization of the less harmful of recreational drugs. Further believing that the economy of member-nations will benefit from this revelation via the birth of new agriculture and commercial businesses both directly and indirectly.

NOT FAILING to mention abstract benefits such as the obliteration of what was crime but is now legal, the potentially large-scale anger management benefits, or the furtherment of spirituality.

CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

HEREBY MANDATES the legalization of non-synthesized cannabinoids for personal use. The sale, purchase, and consumption of cannabinoids shall hereby become legal. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

KNOWING that each nation-state will make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

STIPULATING that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of cannabinoids to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

b) Nation-states maintain the right to mitigate consumption by setting standards as to:
1) The potency of a cannabinoid (ie: additives and/or growth techniques,) to maintain safety standards.
2) The maximum amount allowed in one's personal possession at any one time, not to fall beneath 5 grams.
3) Licensing of businesses in the cannabinoid growth or distribution industry.

NOTING that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

NOTING FURTHER that businesses, as allowed by the government of each nation-state, will retain the right to screen employees with urineanalysis tests. DECLARING that a business has a right to a certain level of professionalism and that it will not be considered descrimination to do so.

ENCOURAGING all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.

ENCOURAGES nation-states to embrace this new industry and tax it unprejudicially.

ALLOWING nation-states to decide whether or not to set a minimum age for consumption on concerned substances but only when based upon precedents set by similar issues such as the age to vote, drive, consume alcohol, and getting married.

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Ardchoille
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Founded: Apr 18, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ardchoille » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:23 pm

Enheightening wrote: Is it... uh, certainly implied that I am MANDATING legalizing said substances... but I suppose for the sake of the game I should reword it to make it stronger.


What I'm getting at is the way the grammar of the "long sentence" governs what the proposal actually does. Clauses beginning with a participle (-ing) are things the WA is doing while also instructing the nations to do (the things that are written as active verbs).

The "-ing" clauses are often called "prefatory"clauses, because they're a preface to the real action. They set the tone and give the reasoning for the WA thinking that what follows is something member nations must do, but in terms of actual effect on the way nations have to change to obey the new law, quite often they might just as well say,

The WA,

NOT REALLY WATCHING that stupid newscast, and

DOING some damage to a nice bottle of Scotch, while

IDLY SCRATCHING its nose,

INSISTS that WA member nations (do this action);
MANDATES that they'd damn well better (do this other action); and
CREATES a committee to keep an eye on how well they (do both actions).


The active verbs are the three in green. Nations have to do them. The other ones are about the WA's state of mind at the time.

Here endeth Prop Writing 101.
Ideological Bulwark #35
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Astrolinium
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Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:26 pm

How likely would you be to abandon this were I to prove that weed kills by committing suicide via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly?
No, screw that. Change that to murder a gnome via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly.
After all, you seem to have brought up religion in the proposal, and I do believe the bible calls for getting stoned to death.
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Enheightening
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Posts: 33
Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm

-One of the Vocatian delegates activates a fan, harmlessly dispersing the foul, drug-filled smoke just short of the Vocatian table.-

-Though in the process of putting the joint out now, and placing the roach in his pocket as previously described, Jon did hear the fan turn on and was careful to blow the remainder of his smoke away from the Vocation delegates... and anyone else who didn't seem pleased with its presense.-

Vocatus wrote:We highly doubt that lifting the prohibition on alcohol would serve to decrease the crime rate in our country as it's almost zero currently despite the fact that we ban all mind-altering substances, including all intoxicants, depressants, and any stimulant stronger than coffee. Nothing that permanently harms the body or, especially, the brain, is or will be permitted within our borders.


Humor me, if you will. Would you say there is at least one person in Vocatus, yet to be apprehended, that consumes mind-altering substances? If you would say so, Ambassador, then I think there is little use doubting that lifting prohibition on cannabinoids (recent revamp of the proposal) would reduce crime. That one person would no longer be participating in illegal activities, yes? Ipso facto, less crime.

While I believe it is true that cannabinoids are classified as depressants, perhaps it would be news to you that cannabinoids are semi-frequently prescribed in the stead of antidepressants by an innumerable amount of reputable doctors. Also, it may be news to you that caffeine in certain quantities can be lethal. I would argue that coffee is perhaps more addictive than marijuana, for instance. Then again I'm not aware that marijuana is addictive at all... other than, of course, people can become addicted to happiness. As they can also become addicted to wakefulness.

I may not have done a terrific job making my arguement, Ambassador, but I think the ball is in your court now. While I agree that substances which permanently harm the body or brain shouldn't be allowed in your borders, I would like you to explain how cannabinoids permanently harm the body or brain.

same wrote:And even if we did, those who would potentially be employed in the drug industry currently hold gainful jobs elsewhere, so we don't see how it would increase tax revenue in any case.


Again, I'd like to point out the fact that this 'drug industry,' as you scornfully put it, could itself be plenty gainful for employment should this become legal. Either way though, I wasn't thinking income tax so much as a taxation on cannabinoids themselves... much like some states/countries tax tobacco products. Your nation may be so developed that this wouldn't benefit you... the rest of us still have one or two unemployed on our streets I think, and one or two potholes in our roads to fix.

same wrote:If people attempt to smuggle and manufacture controlled substances, those people will be arrested. End of issue.


True, and for so long as having cannabinoids is illegal then this will remain the correct and just course of action. However, let us not claim that our prisons wouldn't be less full and our citizens would find their taxes going to feed less unemployed/imprisoned mouths if this were to become legal. To say that we have things under control now should never be construed as to mean that they can't get better.

same wrote: For others, whose functions include ensuring the health and common good of their citizens, the answer may well be yes.


Unless I am mistaken 'Access to Life Saving Drugs,' or some such resolution, has already declared that cannabinoids serve a healthy and good purpose in the medical world. To take it a step further isn't to strip it of its value, though it may be to say that it will from time to time be abused. Any right worth having will, by one person, at some time, be abused.

same wrote:The WA is not solely a democratic body, after all.


As far as I can tell, honored Ambassador, the WA is indeed a direct democracy. To say that a monarchy resides in it does not say that the King from this country wields a stronger vote than the President from that country. That may or may not be because having good control over your citizens does not equal being right.
Last edited by Enheightening on Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Enheightening
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:47 pm

Ardchoille wrote:OOC

Okay... I get it now. I hope my new draft was better... but do yourself and me a favor and give me a while to put together the next version. I think I'm on the right track, and I'll make sure I implement your advice. I know you can't take the time to teach me everything, but I'm glad you took a little time and I'll try to remain flexible to peoples advice.

Astrolinium wrote:How likely would you be to abandon this were I to prove that weed kills by committing suicide via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly?
No, screw that. Change that to murder a gnome via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly.
After all, you seem to have brought up religion in the proposal, and I do believe the bible calls for getting stoned to death.


I will not say that people haven't committed suicide while on weed. I will say that people have committed suicide while not on weed. Likewise for murder.

-Though doing his best to be quick with replies, and field all the questions and concerns, Jon was still a little high... and, even while talking, and even while debating finishing off that aforementioned roach here and now, he still caught what was, to him, a rather amusing pun and wouldn't begrudge the Ambassador a little laugh.-

If I could stone myself to death I would.

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Astrolinium
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Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:51 pm

Enheightening wrote:
Ardchoille wrote:OOC

Okay... I get it now. I hope my new draft was better... but do yourself and me a favor and give me a while to put together the next version. I think I'm on the right track, and I'll make sure I implement your advice. I know you can't take the time to teach me everything, but I'm glad you took a little time and I'll try to remain flexible to peoples advice.

Astrolinium wrote:How likely would you be to abandon this were I to prove that weed kills by committing suicide via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly?
No, screw that. Change that to murder a gnome via cannabis right here on the floor of the general assembly.
After all, you seem to have brought up religion in the proposal, and I do believe the bible calls for getting stoned to death.


I will not say that people haven't committed suicide while on weed. I will say that people have committed suicide while not on weed. Likewise for murder.

-Though doing his best to be quick with replies, and field all the questions and concerns, Jon was still a little high... and, even while talking, and even while debating finishing off that aforementioned roach here and now, he still caught what was, to him, a rather amusing pun and wouldn't begrudge the Ambassador a little laugh.-

If I could stone myself to death I would.


You misunderstand me. I mean bodily grabbing a gnome and force-feeding him weed until he keels over.
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Enheightening
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Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:55 pm

Aaaah. Point taken. Lets outlaw gluttony after we legalize this.

-Fishing out that roach, which was at the very least of 'worthwhile' size, he procured a rather fancy (if I do say so myself,) glass elephant before packing the roach into its head, laying a finger over its butthole and beginning to draw from its trunk as he set flame to the remaining paper and contained goodness. He then made offering of it to the representative from Astrolinium who, if not a kindred spirit, was at least funny.-

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Astrolinium
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Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:59 pm

Enheightening wrote:Aaaah. Point taken. Lets outlaw gluttony after we legalize this.

-Fishing out that roach, which was at the very least of 'worthwhile' size, he procured a rather fancy (if I do say so myself,) glass elephant before packing the roach into its head, laying a finger over its butthole and beginning to draw from its trunk as he set flame to the remaining paper and contained goodness. He then made offering of it to the representative from Astrolinium who, if not a kindred spirit, was at least funny.-


Giovanni inhaled sharply, and then quickly blew in an attempt to extinguish the burning paper now extended towards him.
"That just about sums up my views on cannabis. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be in the Strangers' Bar, nurturing a large mug of vodka. Or maybe whiskey. Ooh, maybe a mix of both. That sounds fun."
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Grays Harbor
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grays Harbor » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:01 pm

Oh, thrilling.

No.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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Eternal Yerushalayim
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Founded: Mar 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Eternal Yerushalayim » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:03 pm

Enheightening wrote:Aaaah. Point taken. Lets outlaw gluttony after we legalize this.

-Fishing out that roach, which was at the very least of 'worthwhile' size, he procured a rather fancy (if I do say so myself,) glass elephant before packing the roach into its head, laying a finger over its butthole and beginning to draw from its trunk as he set flame to the remaining paper and contained goodness. He then made offering of it to the representative from Astrolinium who, if not a kindred spirit, was at least funny.-

The Seven Deadly Sins
Category: Moral Decency
Strength: Strong

The World Assembly,

DEFINING the seven deadly sins as lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and vainglory,

BELIEVING that the seven deadly sins are deadly,

HEREBY

ERADICATES the seven deadly sins in all member nations.


^^
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Connopolis
Minister
 
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Founded: May 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Connopolis » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:16 pm

Dukopolious wrote:
Enheightening wrote:CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

THEREBY legalizing for personal use the sale, purchase, and consumption of substances that make use of chemicals that can not be consumed in such quantity as to be proven immediately harmful to a user. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances that may be herbal to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

MANDATING that each nation-state will make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

STIPULATING that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of concerned substances to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

NOTING that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

ENCOURAGING all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.

ENCOURAGES nation-states to embrace this new industry and tax it unprejudicially.

ALLOWING nation-states to decide whether or not to set a minimum age for consumption on concerned substances but only when based upon precedents set by similar issues such as the age to vote, drive, consume alcohol, and getting married.


firstly Nice flag ;)
Secondly strength and category.


Not to be rude, but if this is on drugs, wouldn't it fit under recreational drugs, and because it's point is to legalize, wouldn't it's "strength" be legalize? The recreational drug category isn't sorted by strength, but by ban, encourage, or legalize.
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Enheightening
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Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:20 pm

current version wrote:Accord on Harmless Relaxation
Category: Recreational Drug Use
Strength: Legalize

BEMOANING the fact that religion and art has slowly waned in the modern face of logic and science.

BELIEVING that creativity, invention, and "outside-the-box" thinking can be rejuvenated through the legalization of the less harmful of recreational drugs. Further believing that the economy of member-nations will benefit from this revelation via the birth of new agriculture and commercial businesses both directly and indirectly.

NOT FAILING to mention abstract benefits such as the obliteration of what was crime but is now legal, the potentially large-scale anger management benefits, or the furtherment of spirituality.

CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

HEREBY MANDATES the legalization of non-synthesized cannabinoids for personal use. The sale, purchase, and consumption of cannabinoids shall hereby become legal. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

KNOWING that each nation-state will make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

STIPULATING that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of cannabinoids to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

b) Nation-states maintain the right to mitigate consumption by setting standards as to:
1) The potency of a cannabinoid (ie: additives and/or growth techniques,) to maintain safety standards.
2) The maximum amount allowed in one's personal possession at any one time, not to fall beneath 5 grams.
3) Licensing of businesses in the cannabinoid growth or distribution industry.

NOTING that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

NOTING FURTHER that businesses, as allowed by the government of each nation-state, will retain the right to screen employees with urineanalysis tests. DECLARING that a business has a right to a certain level of professionalism and that it will not be considered descrimination to do so.

ENCOURAGING all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.

ENCOURAGES nation-states to embrace this new industry and tax it unprejudicially.

ALLOWING nation-states to decide whether or not to set a minimum age for consumption on concerned substances but only when based upon precedents set by similar issues such as the age to vote, drive, consume alcohol, and getting married.

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Nuvalia
Envoy
 
Posts: 335
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuvalia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:36 pm

The Parliament of Nuvalia rejects this proposal. Our people exercise sufficient rights and those shall never be infringed upon, unless in case of national emergency. We are grossly offended by this proposal and will remind your organization to stay out of Nuvalian Internal Affairs. We won't be pressured into legislation or adoption of any foreign law unless Parliament deems it well for it's people. Anymore attempts to influence Nuvalian Internal Policy will be seen as "State Sponsored Insurrection" and we will respond with a full call to arms.

Fullest Sincerity,
Chancellor Medvedev
Republic of Nuvalia
Last edited by Nuvalia on Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Enheightening
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Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:53 pm

Nuvalia wrote:We are grossly offended by this proposal and will remind your organization to stay out of Nuvalian Internal Affairs.


If you wish to run your own country with complete autonomy I suggest you resign from the World Assembly immediately.

Nuvalia wrote:We won't be pressured into legislation or adoption of any foreign law unless Parliament deems it well for it's people.


Surely you aren't suggesting that your nation is quite possibly in non-compliance with the General Assembly? I may have to turn you over to the Security Council.

Nuvalia wrote:Anymore attempts to influence Nuvalian Internal Policy will be seen as "State Sponsored Insurrection" and we will respond with a full call to arms.


I'm not sure you know what insurrection means. Furthermore, I really don't care what you do. My own nation has no peacetime standing Army, however we are one of many nations within a powerful region. Unless you would think you can make it through the archipelago that is Dharma and launch a seaborne attack without reprisal on my nation... well, I'd sit down, shut the fuck up, and smoke a joint if I were you.

-Finishing the bowl and tapping it out against the edge of his desk, young Jonathon William Stone stood from the position he'd been in for however many hours now and began to shuffle his papers back together in preperation of leaving for the night.-

Gathered friends and Representatives... I apologize for my outburst, and believe that I will go to bed and see what new concerns or questions you can have waiting for me by morning. Thank you all for being fairly patient with me thus far... I hope I've been equally amiable.

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Eternal Yerushalayim
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Founded: Mar 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Eternal Yerushalayim » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:54 pm

Enheightening wrote:
Nuvalia wrote:We are grossly offended by this proposal and will remind your organization to stay out of Nuvalian Internal Affairs.


If you wish to run your own country with complete autonomy I suggest you resign from the World Assembly immediately.

Nuvalia wrote:We won't be pressured into legislation or adoption of any foreign law unless Parliament deems it well for it's people.


Surely you aren't suggesting that your nation is quite possibly in non-compliance with the General Assembly? I may have to turn you over to the Security Council.

Nuvalia wrote:Anymore attempts to influence Nuvalian Internal Policy will be seen as "State Sponsored Insurrection" and we will respond with a full call to arms.


I'm not sure you know what insurrection means. Furthermore, I really don't care what you do. My own nation has no peacetime standing Army, however we are one of many nations within a powerful region. Unless you would think you can make it through the archipelago that is Dharma and launch a seaborne attack without reprisal on my nation... well, I'd sit down, shut the fuck up, and smoke a joint if I were you.

-Finishing the bowl and tapping it out against the edge of his desk, young Jonathon William Stone stood from the position he'd been in for however many hours now and began to shuffle his papers back together in preperation of leaving for the night.-

Gathered friends and Representatives... I apologize for my outburst, and believe that I will go to bed and see what new concerns or questions you can have waiting for me by morning. Thank you all for being fairly patient with me thus far... I hope I've been equally amiable.

He isn't in the World Assembly, I believe.
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"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe. " -Saint Augustine
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."-Albert Einstein
"The first and simplest emotion which we discover in the human mind, is curiosity." -Edmund Burke

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Nuvalia
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Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuvalia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:02 pm

Enheightening wrote:
Nuvalia wrote:We are grossly offended by this proposal and will remind your organization to stay out of Nuvalian Internal Affairs.


If you wish to run your own country with complete autonomy I suggest you resign from the World Assembly immediately.

Nuvalia wrote:We won't be pressured into legislation or adoption of any foreign law unless Parliament deems it well for it's people.


Surely you aren't suggesting that your nation is quite possibly in non-compliance with the General Assembly? I may have to turn you over to the Security Council.

Nuvalia wrote:Anymore attempts to influence Nuvalian Internal Policy will be seen as "State Sponsored Insurrection" and we will respond with a full call to arms.


I'm not sure you know what insurrection means. Furthermore, I really don't care what you do. My own nation has no peacetime standing Army, however we are one of many nations within a powerful region. Unless you would think you can make it through the archipelago that is Dharma and launch a seaborne attack without reprisal on my nation... well, I'd sit down, shut the fuck up, and smoke a joint if I were you.

-Finishing the bowl and tapping it out against the edge of his desk, young Jonathon William Stone stood from the position he'd been in for however many hours now and began to shuffle his papers back together in preperation of leaving for the night.-

Gathered friends and Representatives... I apologize for my outburst, and believe that I will go to bed and see what new concerns or questions you can have waiting for me by morning. Thank you all for being fairly patient with me thus far... I hope I've been equally amiable.



We hereby seize all diplomatic and economic relations with you and our affiliated regions. Nuvalia shall never be pressured to do anything that doesn't comply with it's laws. We are not a member of the World Assembly and don't plan to be. To be a member of that organization is to be a grain of sand in an endless beach. So we state it again any more attempts to meddle in Nuvalian Internal Affairs will be met with a full call to arms. And we will support another nations who wish to do the same.


Intensely Sincere
Olga Glasnov
Spokeswomen of the Nuvalian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

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Connopolis
Minister
 
Posts: 2371
Founded: May 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Connopolis » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Nuvalia wrote:
Enheightening wrote:
If you wish to run your own country with complete autonomy I suggest you resign from the World Assembly immediately.



Surely you aren't suggesting that your nation is quite possibly in non-compliance with the General Assembly? I may have to turn you over to the Security Council.



I'm not sure you know what insurrection means. Furthermore, I really don't care what you do. My own nation has no peacetime standing Army, however we are one of many nations within a powerful region. Unless you would think you can make it through the archipelago that is Dharma and launch a seaborne attack without reprisal on my nation... well, I'd sit down, shut the fuck up, and smoke a joint if I were you.

-Finishing the bowl and tapping it out against the edge of his desk, young Jonathon William Stone stood from the position he'd been in for however many hours now and began to shuffle his papers back together in preperation of leaving for the night.-

Gathered friends and Representatives... I apologize for my outburst, and believe that I will go to bed and see what new concerns or questions you can have waiting for me by morning. Thank you all for being fairly patient with me thus far... I hope I've been equally amiable.



We hereby seize all diplomatic and economic relations with you and our affiliated regions. Nuvalia shall never be pressured to do anything that doesn't comply with it's laws. We are not a member of the World Assembly and don't plan to be. To be a member of that organization is to be a grain of sand in an endless beach. So we state it again any more attempts to meddle in Nuvalian Internal Affairs will be met with a full call to arms. And we will support another nations who wish to do the same.


Intensely Sincere
Olga Glasnov
Spokeswomen of the Nuvalian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.


Well, because you're not in the WA, therefore these laws won't affect you. Ergo, we could pass a resolution that would legalize a mass genocide of all WA nations, making Connopolis the dominant country, (not that I would :p), and because you're not in the WA, you wouldn't be affected.
From the office of,
Mrs. Pamela Howell
GA Ambassador of the Connopolian Ministry of Foreign Affairs


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Flibbleites
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Ex-Nation

Postby Flibbleites » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:17 pm

Enheightening wrote:CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

THEREBY legalizing for personal use the sale, purchase, and consumption of substances that make use of chemicals that can not be consumed in such quantity as to be proven immediately harmful to a user. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances that may be herbal to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

MANDATING that each nation-state will make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

STIPULATING that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of concerned substances to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

NOTING that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

ENCOURAGING all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.

ENCOURAGES nation-states to embrace this new industry and tax it unprejudicially.

ALLOWING nation-states to decide whether or not to set a minimum age for consumption on concerned substances but only when based upon precedents set by similar issues such as the age to vote, drive, consume alcohol, and getting married.

Bob reads the proposal, pulls out his WA Stamp Set and proceeds to stamp it.
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Bob Flibble
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Enheightening
Secretary
 
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Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:36 pm

-Deciding to linger a moment longer... or perhaps just not being quick enough about leaving, Jon was fortunate/unfortunate enough to see Mr. Flibble walk in... a face he'd seen before, though he hadn't been here long, and was mildly aware of this man's importance. Watching him pull out a stamp and promptly disapprove turned some of that admiration and nervous energy into disdain though.-

Oh for goodness sake... at least disapprove of the right version. Sometimes I wonder if anything that gets said here is listened to or if people just go squaking to their friends for help disapprove of something.

So today we've covered... national sovereignty. Got it. However, since the category I've written the proposal for can hardly be flexed in another direction, and it can OBVIOUSLY be argued to be none of our business but is legal all the same (and no more intrusive than tons of other passed resolutions,) can we move forward for the sake of progress?

I'd like to hear why this isn't a good idea more than why I'm not supposed to legislate on it. This body has given me the authority to make the attempt... I need no further justification, and have heard nothing here today to change my mind.

It would be nothing short of poetic justice if this proposal ended up passing simply because, today, no sober person has set free a shred of intelligent thought in this room.

-Shaking his head, Jon gathered his things and retired to bed.-

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Celestial Sphere
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Postby Celestial Sphere » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:13 am

Enheightening, I have a few suggestions to address this problem:

Ardchoille wrote:All but one of your clauses begin with participles. It's "The WA, considering ... mandating ... stipulating, etc ... does what?" The only active verb you've got there is "encourages". So if a nation's government looks at this and asks "What is the WA actually making us do about it, though?"" the answer is just "encourage." A proposal is a long sentence that begins with "The WA" and includes the WA telling nations to do some specific action.


Try the following changes:

Enheightening wrote:Accord on Harmless Relaxation
Category: Recreational Drug Use
Strength: Legalize

BEMOANING the fact that religion and art has slowly waned in the modern face of logic and science.

BELIEVING that creativity, invention, and "outside-the-box" thinking can be rejuvenated through the legalization of the less harmful of recreational drugs. Further believing that the economy of member-nations will benefit from this revelation via the birth of new agriculture and commercial businesses both directly and indirectly.

NOT FAILING to mention abstract benefits such as the obliteration of what was crime but is now legal, the potentially large-scale anger management benefits, or the furtherment of spirituality.

CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

HEREBY MANDATES the legalization of non-synthesized cannabinoids for personal use. The sale, purchase, and consumption of cannabinoids shall hereby become legal. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

KNOWING that ALLOWS each nation-state will to make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

STIPULATING STIPULATES that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of cannabinoids to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

b) Nation-states maintain the right to mitigate consumption by setting standards as to:
1) The potency of a cannabinoid (ie: additives and/or growth techniques,) to maintain safety standards.
2) The maximum amount allowed in one's personal possession at any one time, not to fall beneath 5 grams.
3) Licensing of businesses in the cannabinoid growth or distribution industry.

NOTING NOTES that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

NOTING FURTHER DECLARES that businesses, as allowed by the government of each nation-state, will retain the right to screen employees with urineanalysis tests. DECLARING FURTHER DECLARES that a business has a right to a certain level of professionalism and that it will not be considered descrimination to do so.

ENCOURAGING ENCOURAGES all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.

FURTHER ENCOURAGES nation-states to embrace this new industry and tax it unprejudicially.

ALLOWING ALLOWS nation-states to decide whether or not to set a minimum age for consumption on concerned substances but only when based upon precedents set by similar issues such as the age to vote, drive, consume alcohol, and getting married.


Please keep an updated version of your current draft in the first post of this thread so that ambassadors can easily see the current state of the proposal.
The Mostly Serene Republic of Celestial Sphere

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Enheightening
Secretary
 
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Founded: Jun 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Enheightening » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:23 am

Ooc: I'm on my phone now and won't be able to tend to this as much as I'd like for the next week. Army training exercise out in the field. I like the changes you recommended and consider your last post to be the current version. I suppose I owe mr flibble an ic apology if it is expected of me to update the original post. I didn't know that was the rule of thumb... Not sure if I like it, but I guess I can conform. Makes more sense to me to post updates in line. I'm not here to entertain the people that haven't been keeping up with the discussion.

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:49 am

Enheightening wrote:I'm not here to entertain the people that haven't been keeping up with the discussion.

OOC: And we are not here to have to wade through myriad postings to find what and where the most current draft is, which is why editing the most current into the OP is the considerate thing to do.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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Vocatus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vocatus » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:26 am

Enheightening wrote:
Vocatus wrote:We highly doubt that lifting the prohibition on alcohol would serve to decrease the crime rate in our country as it's almost zero currently despite the fact that we ban all mind-altering substances, including all intoxicants, depressants, and any stimulant stronger than coffee. Nothing that permanently harms the body or, especially, the brain, is or will be permitted within our borders.


Humor me, if you will. Would you say there is at least one person in Vocatus, yet to be apprehended, that consumes mind-altering substances? If you would say so, Ambassador, then I think there is little use doubting that lifting prohibition on cannabinoids (recent revamp of the proposal) would reduce crime. That one person would no longer be participating in illegal activities, yes? Ipso facto, less crime.

Vocatus wrote:If people attempt to smuggle and manufacture controlled substances, those people will be arrested. End of issue.


True, and for so long as having cannabinoids is illegal then this will remain the correct and just course of action. However, let us not claim that our prisons wouldn't be less full and our citizens would find their taxes going to feed less unemployed/imprisoned mouths if this were to become legal. To say that we have things under control now should never be construed as to mean that they can't get better.


You misunderstood the thrust of our argument. Namely that our policy is not and will not be dictated by would-be criminals. Each law stands on its own merits and saying "you mustn't pass this law because people will try to break it," is not a compelling argument.

Enheightening wrote:
Vocatus wrote:And even if we did, those who would potentially be employed in the drug industry currently hold gainful jobs elsewhere, so we don't see how it would increase tax revenue in any case.


Again, I'd like to point out the fact that this 'drug industry,' as you scornfully put it, could itself be plenty gainful for employment should this become legal. Either way though, I wasn't thinking income tax so much as a taxation on cannabinoids themselves... much like some states/countries tax tobacco products. Your nation may be so developed that this wouldn't benefit you... the rest of us still have one or two unemployed on our streets I think, and one or two potholes in our roads to fix.


We're sure that the nations which believe in the economic advantages of cannabis are perfectly competent to legalize it within their own borders, and indeed many have done so. This is just a silly argument to raise in an international body, however compelling it may be on a national scale.


Enheightening wrote:
Vocatus wrote: For others, whose functions include ensuring the health and common good of their citizens, the answer may well be yes.


Unless I am mistaken 'Access to Life Saving Drugs,' or some such resolution, has already declared that cannabinoids serve a healthy and good purpose in the medical world. To take it a step further isn't to strip it of its value, though it may be to say that it will from time to time be abused. Any right worth having will, by one person, at some time, be abused.


Certainly. We allow cannabis to be used medicinally. We also allow procedures that leave the patient with no hair and a drastically decreased white blood cell count, because when you're sick you do what you have to in order to get better. But we would not allow either one to a well person.

This argument is an entirely separate issue, one that's already been dealt with.

Enheightening wrote:
Vocatus wrote:The WA is not solely a democratic body, after all.


As far as I can tell, honored Ambassador, the WA is indeed a direct democracy. To say that a monarchy resides in it does not say that the King from this country wields a stronger vote than the President from that country. That may or may not be because having good control over your citizens does not equal being right.


We were rather addressing your statements about the proper scope of government. And the fact is, many of our nations do not operate on the idea of a limited government. You asked earlier what right do we, as lawmakers, have to abridge the 'freedom' of our citizens to use drugs. The fact is, you may not have the right, but we do. We can prevent our citizens from putting unsafe substances into their body just as we can prevent them from driving without seatbelts, living in unsafe houses, walking around without inoculations, and so on and so forth.


Enheightening wrote:While I believe it is true that cannabinoids are classified as depressants, perhaps it would be news to you that cannabinoids are semi-frequently prescribed in the stead of antidepressants by an innumerable amount of reputable doctors. Also, it may be news to you that caffeine in certain quantities can be lethal. I would argue that coffee is perhaps more addictive than marijuana, for instance. Then again I'm not aware that marijuana is addictive at all... other than, of course, people can become addicted to happiness. As they can also become addicted to wakefulness.

I may not have done a terrific job making my arguement, Ambassador, but I think the ball is in your court now. While I agree that substances which permanently harm the body or brain shouldn't be allowed in your borders, I would like you to explain how cannabinoids permanently harm the body or brain.


Oh, dear. Must we really bust out our 'Drugs are bad' leaflets?

Very well, long story short:

Cannabinoids disrupt memory, along with other brain processes. Their intensive use leads to permanent degradation of the brain, if only to a limited degree. They are chemically addictive - not as much as 'harder' drugs and not in every case, but addictive nonetheless. And, most importantly, they chemically alter one's state of mind. Effectively, one becomes temporarily stupider in an attempt to find enjoyment. And in that altered state they may do things that they would not do had they been in sound mind - again, we must emphasize we understand that with cannabinoids that effect is much less than with certain other substances, including alcohol, it is nonetheless present. And that is not something we can tolerate.

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Morlago
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1396
Founded: Jun 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Morlago » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:38 am

Very first thing - I hope the title is NOT going to be "Yet another 'Legalize It!' Proposal"...

Enheightening wrote:CONSIDERING it to be each person's right to pursue whatever spiritual ambitions one may, with whatever substances they may, with exception given only to the safety of those non-participants.

So it is spirituality now? That is a new change.

THEREBY legalizing for personal use the sale, purchase, and consumption of substances that make use of chemicals that can not be consumed in such quantity as to be proven immediately harmful to a user. The power to restrict growth of any concerned substances that may be herbal to that of legally established and licensed businesses shall remain with each nation-state.

The wording here is awful. Even water can be consumed in a quantity where it will cause death. This proposal allows to ban water.

MANDATING that each nation-state will make allowances for these industry to grow as free from regulation as other industries are in said nation.

This is sort of getting into Advancement of Industry... Also, the wording creates a giant loophole. Different may have different levels of regulations. The government may regulate one very tightly, but the law may be lax in others. Governments would still be able to ban drugs if they wanted to.

STIPULATING that:
a) Nation-states reserve the right to restrict the consumption of concerned substances to a person's private property in such cases as the following are not true:
1) A legally supported lease agreement is not already in place that restricts the signed as to such actions as smoking indoors.
2) A business owner has, in legal accordance with the member-state's laws, decided to allow open-area consumption of concerned substances.
3) A hotel, or other temporary residence, is being legally paid for by the participant in which such activities has been pre-allowed.

Those are the only cases? What about smoking in taxis/minivans? Those would create a nuisance to drivers too. This is one clause we will not allow.


NOTING that a personal vehicle, for the sake of this resolution, does not constitute private property. Individual nation-states shall retain the right under this resolution to abolish the consumption of concerned substances in conjunction with operating vehicles.

And why is that? They buy and own a flat, they have the right to restrict consumption. They buy and own a car, yet they have no control of what people can do inside it. Outright discrimination, if you ask me.

ENCOURAGING all complying nations to properly label all substances for sale with an accurate and complete description of chemicals/ingredients contained, possible adverse reactions, health conditions from which concurrent usage may produce health issues, and whatever else may be mandated by each nation-states food, health and/or pharmacuetical policies.


Encourages... Wonderful word.


What does that mean? So if I have different ages for these criteria, I have to get an average and set that as the minimum age? Micromanagement. Also, I can always use the age of retirement as the basis.

Overall, we think this is micromanagement and an issue for nations to decide for themselves. OPPOSED.
Angelo Gervoski
Minister of WA Affairs of
The United Islands of Morlago
Yë Morre Waidamün i Mórlago

DEFCON: 1 2 (Low) 3 4 5 6


Economic Left/Right: -1.75
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Graph
Center-left social moderate.
Left: 2.2, Libertarian: 0.75
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Culture: -6.31 (Cultural liberal)

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