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[DRAFT] Weaponised Aid Ban

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Magecastle Embassy Building A5
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[DRAFT] Weaponised Aid Ban

Postby Magecastle Embassy Building A5 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:45 pm

The World Assembly enacts as follows, subject to relevant past World Assembly resolutions still in force _

  1. No member nation or entity therein may provide humanitarian aid concealing any weaponry intended to physically harm a recipient of said aid.

  2. Each member nation must, to the best of its ability, inform the recipient of any aid provided by that nation or any entity therein in contravention of Section 1 that said aid violates Section 1.


"Discuss."
Last edited by Magecastle Embassy Building A5 on Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:14 pm, edited 25 times in total.

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Postby Magecastle Embassy Building A5 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:13 pm

Reserved

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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:16 pm

Category and area of effect? The last resolution that tried to ban humanitarian aid designed to kill people was discarded at vote for this reason
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Magecastle Embassy Building A5
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Postby Magecastle Embassy Building A5 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:17 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Category and area of effect? The last resolution that tried to ban humanitarian aid designed to kill people was discarded at vote for this reason

GD -> Mild

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Postby Minskiev » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:51 pm

...what? Why? What's the point? What does this accomplish?
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:56 pm

Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:
The World Assembly enacts as follows, subject to relevant past World Assembly resolutions still in force _

  1. No member nation or entity therein may provide humanitarian aid containing any component intended to physically harm a recipient.

  2. Each member nation must, to the best of its ability, inform the recipient of any aid provided by that nation or any entity therein in contravention of Section 1 that said aid violates Section 1.


"Discuss."

"Arguably bans most surgical equipment. Opposed."

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Postby Hulldom » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:00 pm

Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Category and area of effect? The last resolution that tried to ban humanitarian aid designed to kill people was discarded at vote for this reason

GD -> Mild

I'm not sure there's a good category for this, but if there is, it's certainly not GD, even if mild.
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Magecastle Embassy Building A5
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Postby Magecastle Embassy Building A5 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:04 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:
The World Assembly enacts as follows, subject to relevant past World Assembly resolutions still in force _

  1. No member nation or entity therein may provide humanitarian aid containing any component intended to physically harm a recipient.

  2. Each member nation must, to the best of its ability, inform the recipient of any aid provided by that nation or any entity therein in contravention of Section 1 that said aid violates Section 1.


"Discuss."

"Arguably bans most surgical equipment. Opposed."

"Does the updated draft, limited to concealed weaponry, address this concern?"

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Hulldom wrote:
Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:GD -> Mild

I'm not sure there's a good category for this, but if there is, it's certainly not GD, even if mild.

Ooc: Would Health -> International Aid be preferrible instead?
Last edited by Magecastle Embassy Building A5 on Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Heidgaudr
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Postby Heidgaudr » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:18 pm

Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:
Hulldom wrote:I'm not sure there's a good category for this, but if there is, it's certainly not GD, even if mild.

Ooc: Would Health -> International Aid be preferrible instead?

Probably?
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Postby Heavens Reach » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:07 pm

Can you motivate this ambassador? What is the problem we're trying to fix here? We get that planting a bomb or somesuch in international aid would be bad, but is there really any incentive for a nation to do this in the first place? We can't imagine it provides any militaristic advantage and would surely draw the ire and distrust of the international community, if not open up a whole can of worms (e.g. embargo, retaliation, occupation, etc.) for the offending nation
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Postby West Barack and East Obama » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:36 am

Dr Justin Obama, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs: Given the vast web of legislation on protected status and humanitarian aid, is mailing an IED alongside sacks of rice as part of "humanitarian aid" even legally possible?
Last edited by West Barack and East Obama on Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:40 am

No support.
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Postby Fachumonn » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:58 am

The Orwell Society wrote:No support.

Surely only because it's a "short resolution", not because of the quality?
It's not the greatest proposal by any stretch of the imagination but I could see this getting a lot better.
Last edited by Fachumonn on Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:03 am

Fachumonn wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:No support.

Surely only because it's a "short resolution", not because of the quality?
It's not the greatest proposal by any stretch of the imagination but I could see this getting a lot better.

No, but like others, I really don't think it's neccessary.
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Postby Fachumonn » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:07 am

The Orwell Society wrote:
Fachumonn wrote:Surely only because it's a "short resolution", not because of the quality?
It's not the greatest proposal by any stretch of the imagination but I could see this getting a lot better.

No, but like others, I really don't think it's neccessary.

Well, I can't agree, but ok.
Last edited by Fachumonn on Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Comfed » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:18 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Magecastle Embassy Building A5 wrote:
The World Assembly enacts as follows, subject to relevant past World Assembly resolutions still in force _

  1. No member nation or entity therein may provide humanitarian aid containing any component intended to physically harm a recipient.

  2. Each member nation must, to the best of its ability, inform the recipient of any aid provided by that nation or any entity therein in contravention of Section 1 that said aid violates Section 1.


"Discuss."

"Arguably bans most surgical equipment. Opposed."

Surgical equipment is intended to physically harm its recipient?
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:27 am

Comfed wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Arguably bans most surgical equipment. Opposed."

Surgical equipment is intended to physically harm its recipient?

It can
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Postby Juansonia » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:22 am

The Orwell Society wrote:
Comfed wrote:Surgical equipment is intended to physically harm its recipient?

It can

"However, is surgical equipment intended to harm those who receive it?" - Maria-Fernanda Novo, WA Ambassador for the Armed Republic of Juansonia
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Postby Wayneactia » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:17 pm

Juansonia wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:It can

"However, is surgical equipment intended to harm those who receive it?" - Maria-Fernanda Novo, WA Ambassador for the Armed Republic of Juansonia

"Intent" is in the eye of the beholder....
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Postby Barfleur » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:48 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Juansonia wrote:"However, is surgical equipment intended to harm those who receive it?" - Maria-Fernanda Novo, WA Ambassador for the Armed Republic of Juansonia

"Intent" is in the eye of the beholder....

OOC: How about "harm"? I would think excising a tumor or performing a surgery would be the opposite of harm. It would be harmful to not perform the operation, thus allowing the problem to get worse and eventually kill the patient.
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Postby Wayneactia » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:15 pm

Barfleur wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:"Intent" is in the eye of the beholder....

OOC: How about "harm"? I would think excising a tumor or performing a surgery would be the opposite of harm. It would be harmful to not perform the operation, thus allowing the problem to get worse and eventually kill the patient.

The question was about "intent", not harm. Mens Reas and all of those fancy words and such....
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RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

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Postby Barfleur » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:39 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Barfleur wrote:OOC: How about "harm"? I would think excising a tumor or performing a surgery would be the opposite of harm. It would be harmful to not perform the operation, thus allowing the problem to get worse and eventually kill the patient.

The question was about "intent", not harm. Mens Reas and all of those fancy words and such....

OOC: If the surgeon intends to use the tools to perform a legitimate operation with the consent of the patient (or upon a patient unable to give consent, if immediate action is needed), then I cannot see how that translates to "intent to harm."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:55 pm

Comfed wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Arguably bans most surgical equipment. Opposed."

Surgical equipment is intended to physically harm its recipient?

"What do you think a bone saw does, ambassador?"

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Postby Barfleur » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:49 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Comfed wrote:Surgical equipment is intended to physically harm its recipient?

"What do you think a bone saw does, ambassador?"

"It certainly can be used to mutilate a person, which is a gruesome form of harm. But it can also be used to save a person, which can hardly be considered harmful. That being said, I do support a qualifier that the proposal, if passed, would not ban genuine medical products."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 am

Barfleur wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"What do you think a bone saw does, ambassador?"

"It certainly can be used to mutilate a person, which is a gruesome form of harm. But it can also be used to save a person, which can hardly be considered harmful. That being said, I do support a qualifier that the proposal, if passed, would not ban genuine medical products."

"By slicing flesh. It operates on innately destructive tendencies. Which is one reason why we anesthetize patients undergoing surgery. That's not a claim that surgery is immoral but a recognition of the nature of medical technology at this stage. Similarly to how we believe using violence to prevent worse harm is broadly acceptable, we accept limited destruction of the body to make more significant long term gains. It's hard to imagine any way surgical equipment is inapplicable under the portion of the draft as it existed when I made that comment."

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