NATION

PASSWORD

[PASSED] Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The New Nordic Union
Envoy
 
Posts: 311
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The New Nordic Union » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:11 am

WEPA wrote:Why are we trying to normalize this mental disorder instead of trying help those with it?


'If you read the proposed resolution, you can clearly see that its aim is to help transgender people, even though it is not a mental disorder.'
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20059
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:12 am

WEPA wrote:Why are we trying to normalize this mental disorder instead of trying help those with it?

Why are you trying to normalize hatred instead of trying to help those who suffer from that hatred?
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Dr Neela Rasgotra
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Mar 28, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Dr Neela Rasgotra » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:13 am

WEPA wrote:Why are we trying to normalize this mental disorder instead of trying help those with it?

It is not a mental disorder. Trust me, I'm a doctor!
Last edited by Dr Neela Rasgotra on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18402
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:15 am

Wallenburg wrote:OOC: That gender and sex are fundamentally different things is well established academic consensus. To claim otherwise is to argue against the body of experts that study these things for a living.
OOC
Consensuses change. Phlogiston, Luminiferous Ether, and 'Young Earth' Creationism, to name but three examples, were all held to be true by "well established academic consensus"... until they weren't.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Vlender Tusdeta
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Apr 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vlender Tusdeta » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:33 am

Vlender Tusdeta supports this issue in concept, and conveys in concept the support of Tusdeta, across which region Vlender believes that analogous legislation already found in all nations. The affordability mandate is however concerning, as is the potential for controversy sufficient to disunite the World Assembly. Does this issue constitute tyranny of the majority? Is it fair to vote in favor on the grounds of it being no imposition to Vlender, knowing it would be an imposition to other nations in the World Assembly?

Indeed, the presence of similar legislation ubiquitously in Tusdeta raises a question of itself. What kind of imposition would it be? That information is beyond Tusdeta's sociology; we acknowledge the reality of transgenderism as a matter of course, and have only minor uncertainty in the matter of funding. To what kind of society would this legislation be new? Can the World Assembly guarantee the safety of transgenderism in nations to which this legislation brings something new?

With some reservations, Vlender shall be voting in favor of this legislation; the assistance of the international community in ensuring that the rights of transgender individuals are respected is a service appreciated in Vlender itself, which determination is the foremost obligation of judgment of the government of Vlender.

Bears Armed wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:OOC: That gender and sex are fundamentally different things is well established academic consensus. To claim otherwise is to argue against the body of experts that study these things for a living.
OOC
Consensuses change. Phlogiston, Luminiferous Ether, and 'Young Earth' Creationism, to name but three examples, were all held to be true by "well established academic consensus"... until they weren't.

OOC: Sex and gender aren't going to be a collapsing consensus. What is the sex of an AI, and what is its gender? This question presently verges on nonsense; we have not any AI capable of having their own opinion on the matter, so it is akin to asking, "What is the sex of a boat, and what is its gender?" Still, research into the nature of cognition is ongoing, and it is likely that the question of AI gender will eventually achieve the total reality expressed in a self-questioning identity. When that happens, it should be readily apparent that an AI cannot have a sex, yet it can have a gender. In like manner, that which is beloved in humanity is not that humans have gametes, but that humans have intelligence, and so HI can have a gender in the same way that AI can have a gender.
This is the WA-delegate nation for the Tusdetan flight of nations. We're sci-fi themed and apply limited presumptions of what kind (or mix) of species is actually operating in each nation; we took our nation-lifting helicopters to the stars. The full Tusdeta alt list (presently as of 5/23/2019 equivalent to the Tusdeta nation list) can be found here among the dispatches of Mutaorat Tusdeta.

User avatar
Paleoconservative Citizens
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 130
Founded: Jun 22, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Paleoconservative Citizens » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:40 am

This Proposal violates Freedom of Religion, as it is forcing religious members of WA to accept what is against their beliefs. You can expect that I am very much Against this vote.
Last edited by Paleoconservative Citizens on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Presbyterian, Conservative, Writer.

User avatar
South World
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby South World » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:42 am

2. Their experiences are not the product of "mental illness," "confusion," "disease," or anything of the sort -- rather, their understanding of their relationship to the world in the lens of gender does not correspond with their biological sex.

4. Any distress arising from this real disconnect between sex and gender is referred to as gender dysphoria -- like any mental condition, it ought to be treated.

Well, which is it?
Gun control is not about guns, it’s about control.
Speedin

User avatar
Paleoconservative Citizens
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 130
Founded: Jun 22, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Paleoconservative Citizens » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:44 am

South World wrote:2. Their experiences are not the product of "mental illness," "confusion," "disease," or anything of the sort -- rather, their understanding of their relationship to the world in the lens of gender does not correspond with their biological sex.

4. Any distress arising from this real disconnect between sex and gender is referred to as gender dysphoria -- like any mental condition, it ought to be treated.

Well, which is it?

I guess it's mental illness when they need it to be.
Presbyterian, Conservative, Writer.

User avatar
Saciu
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Sep 28, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Saciu » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:46 am

Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, though debatably not an illness. GD is 100% required to be trans. The best way to treat GD is through physical and social transition.
C'est Saciu, The South Pacific's most influential tranny
Political compass: 5.25, -5.85
Pronoun: She. Saying "she/her" is not required, since the pronoun "she" implies the pronoun "her". Why not say "she/her/hers" or "her/hers"?

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:47 am

South World wrote:2. Their experiences are not the product of "mental illness," "confusion," "disease," or anything of the sort -- rather, their understanding of their relationship to the world in the lens of gender does not correspond with their biological sex.

4. Any distress arising from this real disconnect between sex and gender is referred to as gender dysphoria -- like any mental condition, it ought to be treated.

Well, which is it?

(OOC: Being transgender is not a mental illness. However, the resultant disconnect between gender and sex is a mental condition. To use an example, having a peanut allergy is not a physical conditions, but resultant rashes from being around peanuts might be. I recognise this is an awful analogy, but it’s the best of which I could think.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Kolm
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Kolm » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:00 am

Nobody's going to point out that no substantial evidence to support the extraordinary claim that transgender people are the gender to which they claim to be? Any difference in the brain to what it is supposed to be automatically must be classified as a mental DISORDER. We must treat it as such, and not as a real, perceivable thing that allows transgender people to believe they really are the gender to which they claim to be. I once had a conversation with another person that said "Genderfluid people exist because they say genderfluid exists," which is a terrible mindset and ideologues like that will lead to the inevitable disunity of the WA.
Shuguya Qúlmari Qehúgu
Nexi shiyuya, jú shu úmunu.
Se fú nexi shifasi, jú fú jeyi shiyelo de miyi quzu shú.
President and WA Delegate of The Straw Hat Pirates

User avatar
Ransium
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 5912
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:09 am

Kolm wrote:Any difference in the brain to what it is supposed to be automatically must be classified as a mental DISORDER.


Who gets to decide “what is supposed to be”?

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:11 am

Kolm wrote:Nobody's going to point out that no substantial evidence to support the extraordinary claim that transgender people are the gender to which they claim to be? Any difference in the brain to what it is supposed to be automatically must be classified as a mental DISORDER. We must treat it as such, and not as a real, perceivable thing that allows transgender people to believe they really are the gender to which they claim to be. I once had a conversation with another person that said "Genderfluid people exist because they say genderfluid exists," which is a terrible mindset and ideologues like that will lead to the inevitable disunity of the WA.

(OOC: There are numerous studies proving the existence of a gender identity distinct from biological sex. I also don’t feel how this will lead to disunity, as it must be passed by a majority due to the nature of the World Assembly.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14314
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:14 am

Paleoconservative Citizens wrote:This Proposal violates Freedom of Religion, as it is forcing religious members of WA to accept what is against their beliefs. You can expect that I am very much Against this vote.

"Your freedom of religion as a nation is not protected. Freedom of religion only applies to individuals under WA law, ambassador."

Kolm wrote:Nobody's going to point out that no substantial evidence to support the extraordinary claim that transgender people are the gender to which they claim to be? Any difference in the brain to what it is supposed to be automatically must be classified as a mental DISORDER. We must treat it as such, and not as a real, perceivable thing that allows transgender people to believe they really are the gender to which they claim to be. I once had a conversation with another person that said "Genderfluid people exist because they say genderfluid exists," which is a terrible mindset and ideologues like that will lead to the inevitable disunity of the WA.

"Since sex is biological and gender is sociological, and sociological constants...well, aren't constant, I'm not sure what evidence you need, ambassador. Just based on the conception of gender, we know that what defines a particular gender trait is inherently fluid. Even if you disagree, what possible harm is there in letting people express as they feel? It seems the epitome of selfishness to put your confusion or zealotry over their comfort when it costs you nothing to tolerate it."

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence and Chief Populist Elitist


User avatar
A Cornstar
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby A Cornstar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:14 am

Gender is the new fursona. I'll ignore it because it's a. not real, and b. totes gross. Given sex is not gender it can and should be regulated by different standards. I'd just as soon accept AIDS burgers for school lunches as I would "reassignment"(Bahometism)
Romano-Celtic Americans, Political Compass-Economic:2.5, Social:5.08
"I don't know everything, I just know better."
I use some NS stats, Uses the Royal We IC
"You see I recently came to realize that I too suffer from a disability. It's called G.W.S., Good Workers Syndrome. I get sick to my stomach unless every one around me is giving 110%. The symptoms include pride, responsibility , and a feverish enthusiasm. It used to be a common condition among Americans." -Hank Hill.

User avatar
Thorackistan
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 08, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Thorackistan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:26 am

IC: "The Supreme Dictator fails to see how people of this sort should be getting medication that is NOT for the treatment of psychosis. We do not tolerate these ideas in Thorackistan. We have a healthcare system that provides psychotherapies and medications for the treatment of such diseases. :ugeek: "

User avatar
Union of Sovereign States and Republics
Envoy
 
Posts: 221
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Union of Sovereign States and Republics » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:34 am

Kolm wrote:Nobody's going to point out that no substantial evidence to support the extraordinary claim that transgender people are the gender to which they claim to be? Any difference in the brain to what it is supposed to be automatically must be classified as a mental DISORDER. We must treat it as such, and not as a real, perceivable thing that allows transgender people to believe they really are the gender to which they claim to be. I once had a conversation with another person that said "Genderfluid people exist because they say genderfluid exists," which is a terrible mindset and ideologues like that will lead to the inevitable disunity of the WA.

My cousin in female to male transgender. He has a beard, no breasts, a mustache, chest hair; he's male in all sense except genitals (and even then, he is getting surgery to get male genitalia).
The Union of Sovereign States and Republics; USSR WE'RE NOT COMMUNISTS, DAMMIT!
In 1991, a plane carrying would-be conspirators of an armed coup crashed in the Crimean Peninsula. Without the coup, the Union of Sovereign States treaty was signed; and the USSR survived...
Current Ruling Party: Social Democratic Party of the Soviet Union (Alexander Lebedev)
News: Queen Elizabeth II Celebrates Golden Jubilee - Reorganization of Central Asian SR's

Current IC Year: 2001

\O> THIS PLAYER HAS AN RSI FROM DABBING TOO HARD (i actually have one tho) <O/

User avatar
Otaku Stratus
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 60
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Otaku Stratus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:34 am

I've never been more disappointed in you, NS.
Looking forward to the repeal.

User avatar
Savoir
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Jun 17, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Savoir » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:52 am

"I quote the proposal, 'Any distress arising from this real disconnect between sex and gender is referred to as gender dysphoria -- like any mental condition, it ought to be treated.' We agree with the proposal's authors that gender dysphoria is a mental condition that ought to be treated. However, the treatment mandated by the proposal is not the kind of treatment that we believe is appropriate. As such, we are against the proposal."

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:53 am

A Cornstar wrote:Gender is the new fursona. I'll ignore it because it's a. not real, and b. totes gross. Given sex is not gender it can and should be regulated by different standards. I'd just as soon accept AIDS burgers for school lunches as I would "reassignment"(Bahometism)

(OOC: Your entire argument revolves around gender not being real, which it demonstrably is as can be evidenced by merely observing human civilisation, and gender being gross, which isn’t an argument at all. Lots of surgery is ‘gross’, but very necessary. The General Assembly shouldn’t consider these arguments, and doesn’t appear to agree with you, based on the voting margins.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Morover
Envoy
 
Posts: 279
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Morover » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:03 pm

Savoir wrote:"I quote the proposal, 'Any distress arising from this real disconnect between sex and gender is referred to as gender dysphoria -- like any mental condition, it ought to be treated.' We agree with the proposal's authors that gender dysphoria is a mental condition that ought to be treated. However, the treatment mandated by the proposal is not the kind of treatment that we believe is appropriate. As such, we are against the proposal."

"The proposal doesn't mandate the use of hormone therapy, it simply requires the option to be out there for transgender individuals. I fail to see how one wishes to go about treating gender dysphoria should be up to their government - it should be made as a personal decision, no?"

Otaku Stratus wrote:I've never been more disappointed in you, NS.
Looking forward to the repeal.

OOC: We should probably wait until later on in the vote before talking about repeals (which I will not support if there is no replacement). It's still early enough for anything to happen.

User avatar
Scherzinger
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 132
Founded: Aug 17, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:07 pm

surely you dont think this is a good idea. Anywhom, there are only 2 genders, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been....removed.....already. I dont believe this will have any effect on our nation's daily routines, even if we are against this....proposal
"If You Ever Thought The World Abandoned You, It Never Wanted You Before"
"In The Absence Of Orders, Go Find Something & Kill It"
"The Winner Of A Gunfight Is The Soldier With One More Round In His Magazine"
"Sweat Saves Blood, & Blood Saves Lives"
---Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel - Various Quotes From WWII

User avatar
Fulford
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: May 03, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fulford » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:10 pm

We here at Fulford are very liberal and have already created this law within our own nation through our parliament, now it is time for the globe to follow!

- Adam Salt, President of Fulford
Fulford does not participate in NationStates stats and policies.

"We are United in diversity, Unity in Liberty!"
- Adam Salt, President of Fulford

User avatar
Morover
Envoy
 
Posts: 279
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Morover » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:12 pm

Scherzinger wrote:surely you dont think this is a good idea. Anywhom, there are only 2 genders, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been....removed.....already. I dont believe this will have any effect on our nation's daily routines, even if we are against this....proposal

"Ambassador, it would appear that you are already in violation of GAR#91, as well as several other resolutions. I suggest you reevaluate your national policies, in order to come better in compliance with World Assembly resolutions. We don't want any lengthy trials on our hands, now, do we?"

Fulford wrote:We here at Fulford are very liberal and have already created this law within our own nation through our parliament, now it is time for the globe to follow!

- Adam Salt, President of Fulford

"I appreciate your support, Mr. President."

User avatar
Savoir
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Jun 17, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Savoir » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:14 pm

Morover wrote:"The proposal doesn't mandate the use of hormone therapy, it simply requires the option to be out there for transgender individuals.

"I should instead have said that the proposal mandates that governments provide the option of hormone therapy for transgender individuals."
Morover wrote:"I fail to see how one wishes to go about treating gender dysphoria should be up to their government - it should be made as a personal decision, no?"

"We do not believe this. In our view, it is not good for a government to make available a treatment that we have reason to believe is potentially harmful."

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General Assembly

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rovikstead, Westraliane

Advertisement

Remove ads