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[reDraft] Regulation of Cryptocurrencies

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:01 am

"I would remove the word "declares" from the 'The World Assembly hereby declares" line and change the clause below so it reads, "Creates the...""
Last edited by Kenmoria on Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 am

OOC: How exactly is this Social Justice?
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:13 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: How exactly is this Social Justice?

I guess it improves social welfare to speculate on fantastical assets. *shrug*

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: How exactly is this Social Justice?

Bananaistan said that if I was going for consumer protection, which I am, then to choose social justice rather than free trade.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:24 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: How exactly is this Social Justice?

Bananaistan said that if I was going for consumer protection, which I am, then to choose social justice rather than free trade.

OOC: Keyword: IF. I'm not seeing any consumer protection.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:29 pm

Arotania wrote:OOC:
Masurbia wrote:But cryptocurrencies are built on open source code, allowing transparency and the ability for others to build off of it.


Cryptocurrencies themselves are not code.
Just like databases. Or HTML. Or e-mail.
They are structured data that can be interacted with. They are not programs. The programs that interacts with the cryptocurrencies (miners, wallets..) can be built as open source. Everyone can write their own programs to interact with a public cryptocurrency.

But to make a cryptocurrency, you have to code it. Or code off of a different cryptocurrency with open source code.



Masurbia wrote:Again, would these in store cryptocurrencies be on the blockchain? Or would they have a separate trading system?


They would be on a private blockchain. Same as above. You display severe incomprehension of the topic you are trying to legislate.

You asking questions does not mean I don't know the topic.

Masurbia wrote:Is the supply determined by a central bank?


This again... A central bank could issue their own cryptocurrency, defining its algorithmical parameters, and thereby control its supply.

The blockchain eliminates the need for a central bank. So would a central bank even have to use the blockchain because the blockchain makes them lose money.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:31 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Bananaistan said that if I was going for consumer protection, which I am, then to choose social justice rather than free trade.

OOC: Keyword: IF. I'm not seeing any consumer protection.

The whole proposal is about regulating cryptocurrencies so scams don't pop out. If you don't think this is the case, should I change it back to free trade?
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Dirty Americans
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Postby Dirty Americans » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Masurbia wrote:Is the supply determined by a central bank?

Not for Cryptocurrencies. In fact there is no "central" bank. That's the purpose of the blockchain. It's the insanely distributed bank.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:10 pm

Dirty Americans wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Is the supply determined by a central bank?

Not for Cryptocurrencies. In fact there is no "central" bank. That's the purpose of the blockchain. It's the insanely distributed bank.

Yes, this is what I’ve been saying.
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Rovikstead
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Postby Rovikstead » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:26 pm

OOC: Masurbia, why do you believe that the regulation cryptocurrencies is WA issue? Why can't cryptocurrencies be managed by the individual nations themselves?
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:50 pm

Rovikstead wrote:OOC: Masurbia, why do you believe that the regulation cryptocurrencies is WA issue? Why can't cryptocurrencies be managed by the individual nations themselves?

Well as you said, there are hundreds of nations that just want to watch the world burn and bring down economically stable nations. They are permitted to make as much cryptocurrency as they want and scam individuals with it. This proposal would prevent that.
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Rovikstead
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Postby Rovikstead » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Rovikstead wrote:OOC: Masurbia, why do you believe that the regulation cryptocurrencies is WA issue? Why can't cryptocurrencies be managed by the individual nations themselves?

Well as you said, there are hundreds of nations that just want to watch the world burn and bring down economically stable nations. They are permitted to make as much cryptocurrency as they want and scam individuals with it. This proposal would prevent that.

1. Could you point to a specific clause(s) that would prevent this kind of corruption?
2. Yes, a nation can abuse a form of cryptocurrency, but if the regulation of cryptocurrency remains a national issue, then only nationally recognized cryptocurrencies would be susceptible to abuse and terrible inflation. But a nation abusing its own cryptocurency would only hurt the currency's value and the nation's economy. These consequences would act as a deterrent to abuse their nationally recognized cryptocurrency.
However, if a form of cryptocurrency were internationally recognized, it would have a universal value in all WA members. This would act as an incentive to scam other nations and illegally reproduce the cryptocurrency.
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He Qixin
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Postby He Qixin » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 pm

OOC: I agree that cryptocurrencies should be recognized by member nations, especially since some member nations don't quite treat cryptocurrencies as real currencies though they are part of them. But I don't believe all member nations use cryptocurrencies, so you might as well look into that.
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The First German Order
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Postby The First German Order » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:04 am

He Qixin wrote:OOC: I agree that cryptocurrencies should be recognized by member nations, especially since some member nations don't quite treat cryptocurrencies as real currencies though they are part of them. But I don't believe all member nations use cryptocurrencies, so you might as well look into that.

OOC: Most of what you just said makes no sense. Also, unless a cryptocurrency is the national currency the nation wouldn't use it for official stuff like trade. Even then some nations don't use any technology and in that case can't have cryptocurrencies at all, so making them recognize them would be awfully stupid since they wouldn't be able to use them for literally anything and of you want to force them to use them then that's tons of money spent on pointless integration. But then again, that's just my two cents.
EDIT: I just reread what I wrote and I've confused myself.
Last edited by The First German Order on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:30 am

"There should be an apostrophe after "nation" in clause 1a."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:05 am

The First German Order wrote:
He Qixin wrote:*snip*

OOC: Most of what you just said makes no sense.

OOC: Part of it is a language issue, they're not native English user, but I think that also affects their understanding of complex issues like this. I'm not native user either, and some of the stuff on this topic goes so far past my scientific knowledge comfort zone that I leave the arguing on those bits to those who seem to be doing a better job. :P
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The First German Order
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Postby The First German Order » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

Araraukar wrote:
The First German Order wrote:OOC: Most of what you just said makes no sense.

OOC: Part of it is a language issue, they're not native English user, but I think that also affects their understanding of complex issues like this. I'm not native user either, and some of the stuff on this topic goes so far past my scientific knowledge comfort zone that I leave the arguing on those bits to those who seem to be doing a better job. :P

OOC: I thought you were a native English user. You speak it too well! Anyways, you bring up a good point. Non-native English speakers may actually have more trouble understanding this sort of thing.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:59 pm

Rovikstead wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Well as you said, there are hundreds of nations that just want to watch the world burn and bring down economically stable nations. They are permitted to make as much cryptocurrency as they want and scam individuals with it. This proposal would prevent that.

1. Could you point to a specific clause(s) that would prevent this kind of corruption?

"c. A cryptocurrency shall live up to the standards of the defintion provided, as well as have an open source base, allowing transparency and the ability to improve
through eachother, and the founders of the cryptocurrency, in addition to their background, are required to be clearly known to the public."

And before you ask, most scam/fake cryptocurrencies are ones without the points shown above.
However, if a form of cryptocurrency were internationally recognized, it would have a universal value in all WA members. This would act as an incentive to scam other nations and illegally reproduce the cryptocurrency.

I assume that cryptocurrencies are still able to be traded between nations as long as each nation allows it.
OOC: Like I could buy and send bitcoin to someone in Europe.
2. Yes, a nation can abuse a form of cryptocurrency, but if the regulation of cryptocurrency remains a national issue, then only nationally recognized cryptocurrencies would be susceptible to abuse and terrible inflation. But a nation abusing its own cryptocurency would only hurt the currency's value and the nation's economy. These consequences would act as a deterrent to abuse their nationally recognized cryptocurrency.

Also, how would a nation abuse a cryptocurrrency? If anything this proposal could prevent this by making sure cryptocurrencies are good-standing.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm

OOC: So, can anyone explain to me, in simple terms, where the "money" of a cryptocurrency comes from? Actual money is issued by banks/nations. Where do the cryptocurrencies get theirs? Do you just add numbers to some database somewhere (and if yes, then what's stopping you from adding howevermuch you want)? Is there a limited amount and more cannot ever exist?

I get it that the idea is that users create the value (mostly because RuneScape uses this kind of a thing, where you buy bonds from the website and then sell them ingame to other players or use them to get certain things for yourself, and the actual value of a bond in the ingame money fluctuates, since it is literally only as valuable as someone will pay for it), but if there's a fixed amount, what's to stop someone from hoarding it and then, when the price has gone up, buying things/services all at once, flooding the market and thus crashing the value, in essence cheating the people who accepted it as money?

...actually, now that I think about it, they sound more like stocks than money...

Forcing nations to accept a scam-friendly way of trolling the market sounds like the opposite of Social Justice, so I hope I've misunderstood some part.

Oh and could someone else but Masurbia please provide the answers?
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Dirty Americans
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Postby Dirty Americans » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:52 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: So, can anyone explain to me, in simple terms, where the "money" of a cryptocurrency comes from?


OOC: In simple terms? The money supply of a cryptocurrency is created as more and more people dedicate their computer resources to host the blockchain a process which is oddly enough called "mining." So as more and more distributed servers come on line the supply of the currency increases.
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Rovikstead
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Postby Rovikstead » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:02 pm

Dirty Americans wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: So, can anyone explain to me, in simple terms, where the "money" of a cryptocurrency comes from?


OOC: In simple terms? The money supply of a cryptocurrency is created as more and more people dedicate their computer resources to host the blockchain a process which is oddly enough called "mining." So as more and more distributed servers come on line the supply of the currency increases.


OOC: So if millions of citizens from WA members that use ICC-recognized cryptocurrency host the blockchain, wouldn't that simply inflate the cryptocurrency and make it virtually worthless? Isn't the sudden influx of people interested in investing in bitcoin the reason why bitcoin became such an infamously worthless currency in the end?
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:27 pm

Dirty Americans wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: So, can anyone explain to me, in simple terms, where the "money" of a cryptocurrency comes from?

OOC: In simple terms? The money supply of a cryptocurrency is created as more and more people dedicate their computer resources to host the blockchain a process which is oddly enough called "mining." So as more and more distributed servers come on line the supply of the currency increases.

OOC: So you run a program on your computer and it gives you the "money"? Cause yeah, that's totally not at all something someone could abuse, especially if the thing has open source code.

And that also leads to some serious issues with the definitions (one of which lacks the word its supposed to define, btw), but I'll leave suggestions and detailed critique for until after I've slept a minimum of 8 hours in a row...
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:46 am

"Remove the ellipsis in the declaring line and replace it with a comma."
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Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:34 am

Rovikstead wrote:
Dirty Americans wrote:
OOC: In simple terms? The money supply of a cryptocurrency is created as more and more people dedicate their computer resources to host the blockchain a process which is oddly enough called "mining." So as more and more distributed servers come on line the supply of the currency increases.


OOC: So if millions of citizens from WA members that use ICC-recognized cryptocurrency host the blockchain, wouldn't that simply inflate the cryptocurrency and make it virtually worthless? Isn't the sudden influx of people interested in investing in bitcoin the reason why bitcoin became such an infamously worthless currency in the end?

OOC: Seems like it to me. The term 'pyramid scheme' springs to mind...
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 am

Bears Armed wrote:OOC: Seems like it to me. The term 'pyramid scheme' springs to mind...

OOC: And thus hardly Social Justice.
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