[DISCARDED] Freedom to Seek Care

[Tinfect]

"The Imperium has not seen that our concerns have been addressed, indeed they appear to apply entirely to the submitted form." Starts Seretis, "On the grounds that the legislation prevents the Imperium from ensuring the health of our citizens and the safety of foreign populations, through prohibiting the Imperium from handling cases of criminal or lethal negligence and criminal or lethal malpractice, as well as preventing the Imperium from ensuring that certain illnesses contained within the Imperium and within the ability of the Imperium to treat are not transmitted to foreign nations lacking the capability, the Imperium will oppose this legislation should it come to vote, and we strongly recommend a similar position be taken by other delegations.

As an aside, to the delegation of Aclion, the Imperium will note that regardless of the current legal arrangement between the Imperium and the World Assembly, the Imperium is in compliance with applicable World Assembly law, and maintains offices within it. The statements of the Imperium are as legitimate as your own, if not more, given the Imperial history within this assembly. In the future, do not presume that your Government is exempt from simple research."

[Araraukar]

OOC: The most current draft needs to be in the first post of this thread, as that's where people will look for it.

[New Waldensia]

OOC: The most current draft needs to be in the first post of this thread, as that's where people will look for it.

Duly noted, and fixed.

[Aclion]

As an aside, to the delegation of Aclion, the Imperium will note that regardless of the current legal arrangement between the Imperium and the World Assembly, the Imperium is in compliance with applicable World Assembly law, and maintains offices within it. The statements of the Imperium are as legitimate as your own, if not more, given the Imperial history within this assembly. In the future, do not presume that your Government is exempt from simple research."

If the Imperium wants its position to have any weight they can join the assembly properly, instead of fraudulently acting through a client state. Authorship of unrelated legislation means nothing.

[Separatist Peoples]

As an aside, to the delegation of Aclion, the Imperium will note that regardless of the current legal arrangement between the Imperium and the World Assembly, the Imperium is in compliance with applicable World Assembly law, and maintains offices within it. The statements of the Imperium are as legitimate as your own, if not more, given the Imperial history within this assembly. In the future, do not presume that your Government is exempt from simple research."

If the Imperium wants its position to have any weight they can join the assembly properly, instead of fraudulently acting through a client state. Authorship of unrelated legislation means nothing.

"The C.D.S.P. is perfectly willing to speak on behalf of the Imperium on this measure, so as to prevent unreasonable attacks against a nation who's contributions to this Assembly well exceed those of their detractors."

[Aclion]

If the Imperium wants its position to have any weight they can join the assembly properly, instead of fraudulently acting through a client state. Authorship of unrelated legislation means nothing.

"The C.D.S.P. is perfectly willing to speak on behalf of the Imperium on this measure, so as to prevent unreasonable attacks against a nation who's contributions to this Assembly well exceed those of their detractors."

"Unreasonable attacks? The Imperium left this assembly in a huff, but set up a client state so as to continue to cast votes while a nonmember. They're frauds."

[Deropia]

"The C.D.S.P. is perfectly willing to speak on behalf of the Imperium on this measure, so as to prevent unreasonable attacks against a nation who's contributions to this Assembly well exceed those of their detractors."

"Unreasonable attacks? The Imperium left this assembly in a huff, but set up a client state so as to continue to cast votes while a nonmember. They're frauds."

"Plenty of nations do that. Ceding part of their territory to create a WA mission is more commonplace than you'd think. Nothing fraudulent there."

[Separatist Peoples]

"The C.D.S.P. is perfectly willing to speak on behalf of the Imperium on this measure, so as to prevent unreasonable attacks against a nation who's contributions to this Assembly well exceed those of their detractors."

"Unreasonable attacks? The Imperium left this assembly in a huff, but set up a client state so as to continue to cast votes while a nonmember. They're frauds."

"'Frauds' who nonetheless are in compliance, which indicates that their status is not to avoid compliance, and who have managed to contribute much. Two resolutions and the respect of it's peers is more than certain nations manage. It's neither here nor there. If you're unwilling to listen to them, pretend that the objection came from me. I'll be the go-between if your unusual distaste is shared by the author."

[Aclion]

"Unreasonable attacks? The Imperium left this assembly in a huff, but set up a client state so as to continue to cast votes while a nonmember. They're frauds."

"Plenty of nations do that. Ceding part of their territory to create a WA mission is more commonplace than you'd think. Nothing fraudulent there."

"I'm surprised you would be so blasé about this"

(I understand the OOC reasoning behind this, given the way much of the game is structured around WA membership. But to do it IC is a dick move, its godmodding)

"Frauds' who nonetheless are in compliance"

"Well they're not members, so none of the mandates apply to them. In a creative sense they are complaint regardless of their policies. Regardless the Imperium is under no obligation, so has no more grounds to object then a member that refuses its obligations."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Well they're not members, so none of the mandates apply to them. In a creative sense they are complaint regardless of their policies. Regardless the Imperium is under no obligation, so has no more grounds to object then a member that refuses its obligations."

"Which is why the Confederate Dominion, a member in good standing, is echoing the complaints. To put yours to bed. Unless you take issue with the quality of our obligation satisfaction?"

[Tinfect]

(I understand the OOC reasoning behind this, given the way much of the game is structured around WA membership. But to do it IC is a dick move, its godmodding)

OOC:
Why don't you tell that to Bears Armed, which acts through Bears Armed Mission. Or Araraukar, which, as mentioned in the signature, is not actually part of the WA, but remains rather active in it, and has been for some time.

[Aclion]

(I understand the OOC reasoning behind this, given the way much of the game is structured around WA membership. But to do it IC is a dick move, its godmodding)

OOC:
Why don't you tell that to [nation=]Bears Armed[/nation], which acts through [nation=]Bears Armed Mission[/nation]. Or [url]Araraukar[/url], which, as mentioned in the signature, is not actually part of the WA, but remains rather active in it, and has been for some time.

OOC: because I don't see them RPing a say in legislation while ICly nonmembers. I've no problem with observer nations giving their opinion ICly or otherwise. Hell both of them are only OOCly commenting on legality. Not comparable.

[Tinfect]

OOC: because I don't see them RPing a say in legislation while ICly nonmembers. I've no problem with observer nations giving their opinion ICly or otherwise. Hell both of them are only OOCly commenting on legality. Not comparable.

OOC:
Bears Armed posts in an IC manner rather often, as does Araraukar. That they've not done much of it on this particular draft is irrelevant.

[Aclion]

OOC: because I don't see them RPing a say in legislation while ICly nonmembers. I've no problem with observer nations giving their opinion ICly or otherwise. Hell both of them are only OOCly commenting on legality. Not comparable.

OOC:
Bears Armed posts in an IC manner rather often, as does Araraukar. That they've not done much of it on this particular draft is irrelevant.

'I've no problem with observer nations giving their opinion ICly or otherwise."

[New Waldensia]

"Esteemed Delegates, guests, and observers, I rise to speak in favor of the proposal currently at vote, Freedom to Seek Care. I believe this is an important measure that would advance human rights, encourage economic development and medical research, and lead to better health outcomes," said Ambassador Josiah Garrett of New Waldensia.

"This bill gives freedom of healthcare choice to the individual, while avoiding any added expense to national governments, who may be financially strapped to begin with and unable to appropriate further monies to healthcare spending. No individual who demonstrates the ability to pay for their personal medical treatments, whether through personal funds or from funds raised on their behalf, can be prohibited from traveling to another nation to seek medical care."

"Under this measure, individuals who travel for their medical care cannot be prosecuted for seeking and obtaining medical procedures or treatments that are not allowed in their home nation. For instance, if an individual needs an experimental treatment, but their nation has not approved and legalized said treatment, they can travel to a neighboring nation and obtain the necessary treatment, and return home without any legal repercussions based on their medical treatment.‎"

"This measure once again reinforces that that the government of the patient's nation of origin is not obligated or financially responsible in any way for transport or medical treatment sought abroad.‎ Any objections regarding cost to the patient's home country can be put to rest. Furthermore, no nation is required to accept foreign medical patients under this measure. If you desire to restrict incoming visitors, you can continue to do so."

"However, if you accept traveling medical patients, your country will absolutely receive an economic benefit, as these medical dollars will now flow into your medical industry, rather than other nations. This will encourage further investment and research into the medical field, as better medical facilities and treatment will simply encourage more individuals to visit your nation for their medical needs, bringing in more tourism spending, lodging income, etcetera. This can be a win-win-win for your country."

"I encourage you to vote in favor."

[Borovan4]

This bill is a bad deal for my nation. If this passes, what will happen to the healthcare industry? Declining profits.The only ones who will get helped are those rich enough to afford traveling to Maxtopia to get a cheaper heart transplant or knee surgery. Meanwhile the poor are stuck here unless they are close to the borders of Blackacre.

[Vitami]

The biggest issue is letting patients being able to take trips that they are medically not able to, instead of trying to be helpful it creates a loophole that would do more harm than good

[Kyoki Chudoku]

A figure enters the room, followed by four Gomon Hito bodyguards just in case. This is Aozora Chiyumi, Supreme Overlady of All Reality. Surveying the room and making sure nobody is aiming a sniper rifle at her, she sits. Only then do her two associates dare follow.

The first of them is Kiku, the generally respectful sociopath in charge of Kyoki Chudoku's diplomatic affairs. The second is adorned in a nurse's attire. This is Naosu, the perfectionistic head of medical affairs.

"I vote against this." says Aozora, scythe in hand just in case of an attack.

Kiku elaborates. "We are of the strong opinion that this proposal will only result in problems. Consider, for example, the possibility of contamination. If somebody has a highly infectious disease and is allowed to enter another nation, they will be able to spread that disease. This resolution, should it succeed and become such, will make us vulnerable not just to natural plagues, but biologically engineered ones as well. Furthermore, what if a citizen simply claims they have a medical reason, then refuses to return? What are we to do in such a case?"

It was now Naosu's turn to speak. "The classification of what each nation considers a medical treatment is often variable between nations. Allowing patients to enter other nations is a major risk. We cannot promise to avoid legal prejudice. What if a patient enters a foreign nation, undergoes a medical treatment which results in massive alteration to their physiology or psychology, then returns. They cannot be judged as though they are the same. In addition, this will not allow people to get the best treatment. It will simply allow them to seek the cheapest available treatment for their ailment, which in some cases can be perilous or even deadly. For these reasons, we must oppose this proposal."

Aozora didn't reveal her actual motivation- keeping her nation as isolated and oppressive as she could- though any present who knew her were aware she likely had no intention of actually complying with the regulations anyway. She also didn't mention her lack of awareness of past legislation, that may make her points irrelevant.

[Araraukar]

OOC: because I don't see them RPing a say in legislation while ICly nonmembers.

OOC: I do that all the time, although I don't even pretend there to be a puppet nation of Araraukar, as I RP Ara and PPU to be allies instead.

There's also States of Glory, who does exactly what Bears and Tinfect do, and who writes proposals in IC and certainly is reacted to in IC.

Hell both of them are only OOCly commenting on legality. Not comparable.

You really don't read any of my posts, do you? Search the words "Proposal Scalpel" and you'll find plenty of IC shreddings of proposals, where their legality is very much called into question.

OOC: Bears Armed posts in an IC manner rather often, as does Araraukar. That they've not done much of it on this particular draft is irrelevant.

'I've no problem with observer nations giving their opinion ICly or otherwise."

OOC still: Yet you reply to OOC posts in IC?

---

IC: Janis leaned back in her chair, lifting her feet onto her desk, and started to peel an orange. "Like the Vitamine said, the proposal bans nations from not letting people to travel if they're too unwell to survive said travel. That puts unfair pressure on whatever commercial transport they may be using, and also seems to contradict the resolution about quarantining sick people during an epidemic. Actually, that might make this whole thing illegal..."

---

OOC: I have submitted a legality challenge for the contradictions I noticed. You can find that here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=424154

[Neo Humanity]

"
The Holy Emperor had expressed His concern over such a outrageous resolution seems to be accept so much supports from the nations whom are clearly not realize the implication of accepting it. This resolution will make it harder to fight global espionage and terrorism as well as undermining national security, it consists of lots of loopholes and ambiguity that The Emperor felt concern the members of WA might get exploited unknowingly but unable to stop it.

Our Emperor urges members of the WA to seriously reconsider their support for this resolution, and remain vigilant in fighting against resolutions that are blatantly questioning and undermining nation's independence and identity.
"

- spokesperson of Holy Palace

[Yohannes]

---

It is my pleasure to stand in support of the principles behind the drafting of this Bill. Hereby in representation of the Christian Democratic Executive Council shall I present, that Parliament and the Electoral College have voted FOR the General Assembly Resolution At Vote: Freedom to Seek Care.

Her Excellency Elisa Rue Wake, Emperor’s Counsel
World Assembly Ambassador of Yohannes

[Little Tralfamadore]

How would this effect laws that are designed to protect our citizens - even/especially from their parents?

Should a child have a easily curable disease but the parents believe that only prayer will cure their child. Normally laws would allow the government to step in and treat the child. Does this proposal allow a parent to effectively murder their child by avoiding the requirement to properly treat their child?

If a child or and adult that someone else has medical control over chooses tan experimental method that no competent medical professional believes will work and will cause tremendous agony and harm to the person do we allow it by claiming it may cure the problem?

It is one thing to allow people to choose their own medical care but do we allow others to force their beliefs on their wards?

[Wallenburg]

How would this effect laws that are designed to protect our citizens - even/especially from their parents?

Should a child have a easily curable disease but the parents believe that only prayer will cure their child. Normally laws would allow the government to step in and treat the child. Does this proposal allow a parent to effectively murder their child by avoiding the requirement to properly treat their child?

If a child or and adult that someone else has medical control over chooses tan experimental method that no competent medical professional believes will work and will cause tremendous agony and harm to the person do we allow it by claiming it may cure the problem?

It is one thing to allow people to choose their own medical care but do we allow others to force their beliefs on their wards?

The text says nothing about whether parents or guardians may make the decision to travel abroad for medical treatment. That matter is of little relevance to this resolution.

[Imperial Polk County]

Janis leaned back in her chair, lifting her feet onto her desk, and started to peel an orange. "Like the Vitamine said, the proposal bans nations from not letting people to travel if they're too unwell to survive said travel. That puts unfair pressure on whatever commercial transport they may be using, and also seems to contradict the resolution about quarantining sick people during an epidemic. Actually, that might make this whole thing illegal..."

Ambassador Drane strokes his chin for a moment. "You may have a legitimate gripe there. The last thing we want to do is allow a highly infected person who should be under quarantine on board a boat or plane. Imperial Polk County reluctantly must cast its vote against this proposal."

[Montenbourg]

"It is time about ending the disgrace of tens of millions of people dying every year from preventable deaths because they either lack health insurance, have high deductibles or cannot afford the outrageously high cost of the prescription drugs they need. Today we will mark a precedence voting against any bill that discourage the basic human right of life and living a healthy life, we as nations must join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee health care to all people as a right and not a privilege. When we talk about a health care program and the need to make sure all of our people have quality health care, it means that we need tens of thousands of new doctors, nurses, dentists, psychologists and other medical personnel who are prepared to practice in areas where people today lack access to that care. This vote is about moving the our world toward an universal health care and reducing the number of people who are uninsured or under-insured.- His Majesty Ambassador Lady Clarisse of Grimaldi"