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The Atlae Isles
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Postby The Atlae Isles » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:35 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Araraukar wrote:That's quite fine, I personally disagree that nations not involved in the drafting process should be allowed to vote on the proposals, but I know that's just me...

Barbera: It's not just you, you know.

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Barbera: (holding in laughter) St...stop it. This is embarr...embarrassing.


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The United Royal Islands of Euramathania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The United Royal Islands of Euramathania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:48 am

We have submitted this resolution at this time. We thank members for their contributions and support of this endeavor.
From the Office Ambassador of The United Royal Islands of Euramathania,
on behalf of the Eternal Monarch, the Theryiat, and the Most Serene Republic

"Many blessing of falling rain, and fair wind."
GA Ambassador: The Wise and Considered, A. Meridian, of the House of Solus Garden
Assistant Ambassador: The Distinguished, C.J. Wallows
Email: wa-office@uri-euramathania.com Yes, It's real.
Many thanks to Fmr Ambassador Everett, for establishing the GA Ambassador's Office.

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Bakhton
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Postby Bakhton » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:53 am

"We stand in solidarity with librarians across the nation in supporting this proposal."
Sorta IntFed.
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Araraukar
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13 am

OOC: How is this not a house of cards violation?

Since some authors have a habit of deleting their text if it's unsuccesful, preserving this one's here.

World Assembly Central Library Compact

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Cultural Heritage

The World Assembly,

Recognizing the work of the Universal Library Coalition (ULC), its Executive Committee (ULCEC), and their Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN), in promoting literacy;

Concerned, however, by a lack of protections for preserving physical written works, and thus, that the mission of digitizing and distributing literary works may be hindered by not having a central repository from which to conduct this import work;

Therefore, Hereby:

Establishes & builds a World Assembly Central Library Complex (WACLC), with the purpose of:
-Restoring & Replicating older written works, which may have become damaged with age,
-Collecting new & informative written works for archival purposes,
-Displaying rare, unique, or important works from nations,
-Providing scholastic access to such works, and maintaining the circulation of important written works among nations;

Mandates that WA Nations seek to preserve &, wherever possible, restore the historic & cultural written works of their nation, which may have become damaged through age;

Further, Requires all WA nations adopt standards governing the preservation, restoration, and security of historical, cultural, or important written works;

Encourages that all WA Nations unable to provide for the preservation and security of historic & cultural written works, seek wherever permissible to donate such works to the WACLC;

Mandates, that in order to achieve these goals, that the ULC be tasked with:
- Collecting & Preserving written texts as donated by entities to the WACLC, and when applicable returning original texts to their donor,
- Providing for the storage & security of written works;
- Creating replicated copies of works which may not be stable enough for public handling,
- Comparing digital copies of works to original written works to prevent tampering,
- Restoring & Repairing, at fair cost, written texts, at the request of donor entities;

Mandates that ULCEC oversee & consult with donors on:
- Ongoing funding efforts for WACLC operations,
- The importance, or literary value of a written work donated to the WACLC,
- The restoration or replication of written works provided, to ensure authenticity and validity,
- The security of written works donated to the WACLC,
- New standards of preservation, restoration, and protection of written works against loss or damage,
- Transfers of written works from donors to the WACLC;

Mandates that the Office of Building Management (OBM) locate suitable land(s) and/or a planet, in international territory on which to build the WACLC, which shall:
- Have adequate access to transportation to & from the WACLC & WA Nations,
- Be sufficiently large enough to include for future expansion(s) of the WACLC,
- Ensure necessary protection against fire, natural elements, or other natural phenomena;

Encourages all WA Nations seek wherever possible to donate new, informative written works to the WACLC and the ULEN for circulation amongst nations and/or archival purposes;

Affirms that all donors retain cultural ownership of all written works donated to the WACLC, and may elect to remove their work from circulation by providing written notice to the ULCEC;

Clarifies that nothing herein shall be read as to remove written works from member states, and that all contributions to the WACLC must be voluntary;

Affirms the rights of all WA Nations in promoting, as they see fit, the written works and literary traditions of their nation.

Still OOC: Also, were you at the word limit or something, because you use & instead of "and" a lot.
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Excidium Planetis
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Anarchy

Postby Excidium Planetis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: How is this not a house of cards violation?

None of the active clauses, as far as I can tell, require an existing resolution to be in force?
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Imperium Anglorum
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:16 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: How is this not a house of cards violation?

Because nothing in it requires a previous resolution, and committees are explicitly exempted.

It isn't a House of Cards violation because that isn't how the House of Cards rule has been previously enforced. The House of Cards rule is one of the clearest rules in the ruleset — explicit reference of a specific past resolution, in operative sections of new legislation, is not permitted. And there is also a test for when this is the case — whether or not the requirements would or would not make sense if the reference did not exist.

When Bakhton asks why this rule is this confusing, I can tell you we've found the source of the Nile.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thyerata
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:16 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: How is this not a house of cards violation?

Because nothing in it requires a previous resolution, and committees are explicitly exempted.

It isn't a House of Cards violation because that isn't how the House of Cards rule has been previously enforced. The House of Cards rule is one of the clearest rules in the ruleset — explicit reference of a specific past resolution, in operative sections of new legislation, is not permitted. And there is also a test for when this is the case — whether or not the requirements would or would not make sense if the reference did not exist.

When Bakhton asks why this rule is this confusing, I can tell you we've found the source of the Nile.


I agree with IA here - as far as I understand House of Cards from the Wa rulebook, it only really kicks in if the resolution says something like "RELYING on GARs #X, Y, A and B". This one doesn't - all it does is refer to a pre-existing committee, which is perfectly legal - the committee will continue to exist even if the Resolution that established it is blasted into oblivion.

That said, if you really wanted to argue the nuts and bolts of it, I could get GenSec involved through a full-blown legal challenge if you wanted...
Last edited by Thyerata on Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:43 pm

OOC: Ok, fine, not HoC but amendment. :P
"I am ambassador miss Janis Leveret, from Araraukar. We are not a WA nation, but that's never stopped me from partaking an argument."
Co-Author of GAR #376
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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The United Royal Islands of Euramathania
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Founded: Nov 21, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The United Royal Islands of Euramathania » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:55 pm

Araraukar wrote:Since some authors have a habit of deleting their text if it's unsuccesful, preserving this one's here.
Still OOC: Also, were you at the word limit or something, because you use & instead of "and" a lot.
OOC:
First I feel that I have been involved in the community of the GA long enough to understand that the full legislative history is important even if my resolution is unsuccessful.
Second point, is yes, it was nearer to 5000 at one point, which is all available in this thread for review.

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Ok, fine, not HoC but amendment. :P

How so? it is clearly providing a novel purpose for the WA. Most of the bulk of the bill is dedicated to building the library.
Last edited by The United Royal Islands of Euramathania on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the Office Ambassador of The United Royal Islands of Euramathania,
on behalf of the Eternal Monarch, the Theryiat, and the Most Serene Republic

"Many blessing of falling rain, and fair wind."
GA Ambassador: The Wise and Considered, A. Meridian, of the House of Solus Garden
Assistant Ambassador: The Distinguished, C.J. Wallows
Email: wa-office@uri-euramathania.com Yes, It's real.
Many thanks to Fmr Ambassador Everett, for establishing the GA Ambassador's Office.

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Thyerata
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:13 pm

*thumbs the "Legality Challenge" dossier threateningly*

Do you really want a full-on debate about this? I can ask GenSec if you're desperate...
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Imperium Anglorum
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:27 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Ok, fine, not HoC but amendment.

What? How does it amend prior legislation? Does it change that prior legislation? That's the bright line here.
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Thyerata
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:51 am

Honourable ambassador, you may need to start campaigning to get this thing to vote...it's languishing on 24 delegate approvals...
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:37 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:*snip*

OOC: C'mon, if you didn't have any arguments from me to jump on, you'd get bored. :P

And, more specifically, the preamble clauses are tripping on my HoC/Amendment tripwires, since "Universal Library Coalition" is the name of an existing resolution. Yes, I know it's also the committee's name, which makes one or the other badly named for the purpose. (Also, were it submitted these days, I'd file a challenge for committee only.)

To author: if you were attempting to break the record on how many committees are named/introduced in a single proposal, you totally should've added WASP to make it six... ;)
"I am ambassador miss Janis Leveret, from Araraukar. We are not a WA nation, but that's never stopped me from partaking an argument."
Co-Author of GAR #376
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:10 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:*snip*

OOC: C'mon, if you didn't have any arguments from me to jump on, you'd get bored. :P

And, more specifically, the preamble clauses are tripping on my HoC/Amendment tripwires, since "Universal Library Coalition" is the name of an existing resolution. Yes, I know it's also the committee's name, which makes one or the other badly named for the purpose. (Also, were it submitted these days, I'd file a challenge for committee only.)

To author: if you were attempting to break the record on how many committees are named/introduced in a single proposal, you totally should've added WASP to make it six... ;)


OOC: That's absurd. Even if the reference is ambiguous, it is reasonable to interpret it as referencing the committee, not the resolution, so it wouldn't be illegal. And committees can be mentioned in several resolutions. I don't see how this could possibly be an Amendment or HOC violation without taking a view that ignores a reasonable legal interpretation for the sole purpose of finding it illegal.
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Araraukar
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:24 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:*snip*

OOC: I said "the preamble clauses are tripping on my HoC/Amendment tripwires [because these reasons]", not "the preamble clauses are automatically illegal because I'm the supreme lord of the multiverse". I just explained why it gave me the false alert and you yell at me for making my point clearer?
Last edited by Araraukar on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am ambassador miss Janis Leveret, from Araraukar. We are not a WA nation, but that's never stopped me from partaking an argument."
Co-Author of GAR #376
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:43 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:*snip*

OOC: I said "the preamble clauses are tripping on my HoC/Amendment tripwires [because these reasons]", not "the preamble clauses are automatically illegal because I'm the supreme lord of the multiverse". I just explained why it gave me the false alert and you yell at me for making my point clearer?

OOC: That's not yelling, that's incredulous as to how they're tripping your senses. Yelling involves MOAR CAPS LOCK.
From the desk of: Ambassador Benjamin Bell, C.D.S.P.
Ideological Bulwark #274

Bell.Benjamin.CDSP@gmail.com
Office # 13, Floor 3 of the WAHQ, next to the Women's Restroom
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Thyerata
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: I said "the preamble clauses are tripping on my HoC/Amendment tripwires [because these reasons]", not "the preamble clauses are automatically illegal because I'm the supreme lord of the multiverse". I just explained why it gave me the false alert and you yell at me for making my point clearer?

OOC: That's not yelling, that's incredulous as to how they're tripping your senses. Yelling involves MOAR CAPS LOCK.


ahem

I think we're entering into a discussion that is better saved for a legality challenge. Rather weirdly, I agree with the author that this is legal, so if I were to lodge such a challenge, would I refer to it as a "Legality Ruling", since I'm not challenging anything?
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Imperium Anglorum
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 pm

Araraukar wrote:

Remind me never to nominate Ara to any GenSec position. Day 1, any proposal which talks about the World Assembly is illegal, because that's the name of 1 GA. Day 2, every single new proposal is illegal too, because it amends 1 GA by adding new functionality to the World Assembly.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Separatist Peoples
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:09 pm

Thyerata wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: That's not yelling, that's incredulous as to how they're tripping your senses. Yelling involves MOAR CAPS LOCK.


ahem

I think we're entering into a discussion that is better saved for a legality challenge. Rather weirdly, I agree with the author that this is legal, so if I were to lodge such a challenge, would I refer to it as a "Legality Ruling", since I'm not challenging anything?


OOC: Legality discussions sans a legality challenge are perfectly reasonable, and even on topic. In no way is this discussion inappropriate. If you want to bring a challenge, you should, but be aware that we take challenges seriously and don't want to hear unnecessary ones. If there isn't a genuine issue of law regarding the rules, please don't file one. This is pretty clear-cut in my eyes.
From the desk of: Ambassador Benjamin Bell, C.D.S.P.
Ideological Bulwark #274

Bell.Benjamin.CDSP@gmail.com
Office # 13, Floor 3 of the WAHQ, next to the Women's Restroom
The Email is real! Send me a message!


The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, cleverly delivered! Benjamin Bell, Attorney at Large.

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Thyerata
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Thyerata wrote:
ahem

I think we're entering into a discussion that is better saved for a legality challenge. Rather weirdly, I agree with the author that this is legal, so if I were to lodge such a challenge, would I refer to it as a "Legality Ruling", since I'm not challenging anything?


OOC: Legality discussions sans a legality challenge are perfectly reasonable, and even on topic. In no way is this discussion inappropriate. If you want to bring a challenge, you should, but be aware that we take challenges seriously and don't want to hear unnecessary ones. If there isn't a genuine issue of law regarding the rules, please don't file one. This is pretty clear-cut in my eyes.


OOC: I agree with you - it's clearly legal. It's Ararukar that's having trouble with it on (nonexistent) legality grounds...
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:18 pm

Thyerata wrote:OOC: I agree with you - it's clearly legal. It's Ararukar that's having trouble with it on (nonexistent) legality grounds...

:roll:
Thyerata wrote:*thumbs the "Legality Challenge" dossier threateningly*

Do you really want a full-on debate about this? I can ask GenSec if you're desperate...

OOC: Was not I that suggested making a legality challenge. I merely asked how it complied with the rules, this was answered, and I explained why I had thought it might not comply, and then it degenerated to this stuff due to, apparently, some mutual misunderstandings of meanings...

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Remind me never to nominate Ara to any GenSec position.

Trust me, that goes both ways, though in your case I think you might - unwillingly or not - cause trouble with your superdelegate status... But happily neither of us was chosen, so we can continue to posture and hiss at each other. :lol:
"I am ambassador miss Janis Leveret, from Araraukar. We are not a WA nation, but that's never stopped me from partaking an argument."
Co-Author of GAR #376
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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The United Royal Islands of Euramathania
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Founded: Nov 21, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The United Royal Islands of Euramathania » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:54 pm

Araraukar wrote:
To author: if you were attempting to break the record on how many committees are named/introduced in a single proposal, you totally should've added WASP to make it six... ;)

That was not our intention, it was originally to preserve books in the form of a library. The existing committees were merely a nice path by which to do so. I am not sure how WASP would have helped my cause, as I cannot force how they would be involved in preserving books. As for how many committed there are, with the exception of the library itself (WACLC), every committee already exists, we are just giving them more work.

Thyerata wrote:Honourable ambassador, you may need to start campaigning to get this thing to vote...it's languishing on 24 delegate approvals...

Yes that is a side effect of campagning in the slow hours, I imagine most delegates received their telegrams during the morning and day when they logged in. :)
Last edited by The United Royal Islands of Euramathania on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
From the Office Ambassador of The United Royal Islands of Euramathania,
on behalf of the Eternal Monarch, the Theryiat, and the Most Serene Republic

"Many blessing of falling rain, and fair wind."
GA Ambassador: The Wise and Considered, A. Meridian, of the House of Solus Garden
Assistant Ambassador: The Distinguished, C.J. Wallows
Email: wa-office@uri-euramathania.com Yes, It's real.
Many thanks to Fmr Ambassador Everett, for establishing the GA Ambassador's Office.

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Thyerata
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Posts: 42
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thyerata » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:38 am

This resolution has hit quorum with 112 approvals. Prepare for the big fight.
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather PhD (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay final year law student with mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Araraukar
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8620
Founded: May 14, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Araraukar » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:20 am

The United Royal Islands of Euramathania wrote:I am not sure how WASP would have helped my cause, as I cannot force how they would be involved in preserving books.

OOC: Force? And maybe scientific texts? ;)

As for how many committed there are, with the exception of the library itself (WACLC), every committee already exists, we are just giving them more work.

Oh I know, that's why I said "named/introduced", as one is introduced and the rest named. Still, five mentioned in total has to approach some kind of record...



Thyerata wrote:This resolution has hit quorum with 112 approvals. Prepare for the big fight.

IC: Why would there be a fight? The nations that dislike this will not vote for it, the ones that do, will, but it's not like it's a very controversial issue.
Last edited by Araraukar on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
"I am ambassador miss Janis Leveret, from Araraukar. We are not a WA nation, but that's never stopped me from partaking an argument."
Co-Author of GAR #376
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Wickedly evil people
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Founded: Jul 14, 2004
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Wickedly evil people » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:48 am

Affirms that all donors retain cultural ownership of all written works donated to the WACLC, and may elect to remove their work from circulation by providing written notice to the ULCEC;



What does that mean? Someone can remove something from circulation why?
Eli

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