NSCAA Discussion thread

[Drawkland]

A bonus reset is definitely in order, but keeping the bonus at 0 for everyone basically punishes people who've RP'd often earlier in the tournament, and basically opens the floor for all sorts of illogical upsets (16 seeds beating 1 seeds, all double-digit seed Final Four, etc).

And yes, while they can still RP in the first round, it only puts a one-day RP gap between nations who've RP'd every day and those who haven't even posted IC posts on the RP thread. And it still allows for upsets in the first round (which can really destroy any logical bracket) which could potentially eliminate high-profile RPers in one fell swoop.

However, a standardized grading, ranking, and organizational system is still a great idea to have on the table, but I don't want the nations who've poured lots of RP effort in the conference stage get screwed over in the early bracket stages.

Not to mention how impossible it'll be to submit sensical bracket predictions when the outcome of every first game is decided by the unhindered will of Margaret.

[Vangaziland]

I do not think resetting the bonus is a good deal at all. There will be different RP bonuses for teams, so be it. Many of the teams that won conferences should have somewhat high RP bonuses. Honestly, there was a long stretch where most people did not RP. Using this thing where we select teams and now resetting everyone's bonus is not going to do anything but randomize things. And honestly, if anybody is worried about their RP score, they should have RP'd more. If they couldn't RP, then that's just a reality of things. Nobody says anyone has to win or that there needs to be some boost to everyone's chances. Why? I just ask why exactly?

And regardless of who wins, everyone knows who has put in effort, RPing and/or hosting, so just having some random team win is going to make the whole thing hollow and pointless. There is a competition building between the host schools and myself and maybe some of the other teams will be lucky. But we don't have to just zero things out of some spirit of goodwill and compassion.

is that not fair?

I agree with Drawkland that maybe some sort of grading and ranking system would be good. At least skill points based on the rank from the initial sign up list. I don't think so many of my schools should have made it, just because I wrote a lot. I was expecting just the top 2 or 3 to advance.

But the NSCAA looks good, it has potential, just be careful not to randomize this even more. It's already complicated and we don't want it to become suddenly pointless.

[Chromatika]

The concern, Vangazi, is this:

Let's say I scored RPs on a score from 0 to 1 per day. Let's say Ceni scored them on a score from 0 to 0.5 per day. Then, a user that RPed 3 times for me could have more ranking points than someone who RPed 5 times for Ceni. Get my point here?

If RP bonus is to carry over, we will need to scale them so that is all the same scale. Otherwise it will be a fiasco.

[Vangaziland]

If that happens, then that's what happens from having so many hosts. So we either standardize the bonuses or use less hosts. But no, it will not be okay to use that as an excuse to suddenly bring all teams down to an equal level. I completely disagree.

[Chromatika]

Oh, I am not saying reset RP bonuses. In fact I brought it up to Ceni a few days ago iirc. I was just commenting on how we may need to work it, that's all.

[Chromatika]

Sorry for the double post, but I had an idea. What if all conference hosts sent a TG to Ceni listing all the nations that were in the conferences the hosted, the ranking points at the end of the conference tournament, and the Max points that the scorinator was set at? Then Ceni can average, add, or whatever to get a true score set on equal footing for every user.

I also think teams ranked #1 in a region should have some ranking points over those ranked #16. Nothing too drastic, but some. How to incorporate this part, though, I am less sure.

[Vangaziland]

That sounds really smart actually. I feel guilty that you guys are doing so much work. But I have to say, I'm trying to learn from what you are doing and it's a lot. Very creative, intelligent people running this. So I hope the next NSCAA gets even more attention and competition. Ceni could probably and might have already planned something like that because he said he had a formula for the selected teams.

I trust that he knows what he's doing, and everything will work out.

[Drawkland]

Sorry for the double post, but I had an idea. What if all conference hosts sent a TG to Ceni listing all the nations that were in the conferences the hosted, the ranking points at the end of the conference tournament, and the Max points that the scorinator was set at? Then Ceni can average, add, or whatever to get a true score set on equal footing for every user.

I also think teams ranked #1 in a region should have some ranking points over those ranked #16. Nothing too drastic, but some. How to incorporate this part, though, I am less sure.

This is what I was going to suggest after mulling over this last night. It's kinda like standardizing a normal curve in Statistics: Just move it down into a standard range.

So yes, just the top RP bonus and the bonuses of all the playoff schools from the conference. I think that should work.
Then Ceni would redistribute the standardized point values to each host and instruct them on the standard scale to use for the tournament. In future, the standardized scale should be used during conference play as well.

[Electrum]

Or we could just continue to use our own RP scales during the NSCAA finals... there isn't need for standardisation, just knowing which team advances. Say I was in control of an eighth of a conference, and the teams that advanced were Nation A's team and Nation C's team. The next person along the line doing say the quarterfinals would just take those teams, and apply their own previous roleplay bonus to them, and they wouldn't need to consult with me... Just a thought.

[Drawkland]

Or we could just continue to use our own RP scales during the NSCAA finals... there isn't need for standardisation, just knowing which team advances. Say I was in control of an eighth of a conference, and the teams that advanced were Nation A's team and Nation C's team. The next person along the line doing say the quarterfinals would just take those teams, and apply their own previous roleplay bonus to them, and they wouldn't need to consult with me... Just a thought.

So the hosts would still keep track of each nation's RP bonus on their own, even if they're not currently scorinating that nation's team(s)?
I do think that's a good idea.

[Electrum]

Or we could just continue to use our own RP scales during the NSCAA finals... there isn't need for standardisation, just knowing which team advances. Say I was in control of an eighth of a conference, and the teams that advanced were Nation A's team and Nation C's team. The next person along the line doing say the quarterfinals would just take those teams, and apply their own previous roleplay bonus to them, and they wouldn't need to consult with me... Just a thought.

So the hosts would still keep track of each nation's RP bonus on their own, even if they're not currently scorinating that nation's team(s)?
I do think that's a good idea.

Haven't we all been doing that?

[Drawkland]

So the hosts would still keep track of each nation's RP bonus on their own, even if they're not currently scorinating that nation's team(s)?
I do think that's a good idea.

Haven't we all been doing that?

I can't speak for everyone.

EDIT: Also, are we open to submit At Large listings now?

[Chromatika]

Here are the twenty-four automatic berths:

University of Ceni (CEN)
Nova Ascea College (CEN)
University of Ceni-Santiago (CEN)
University of New Oxford (CEN)
Depri Lanar University (CMT)
Depri Sanar University (CMT)
Pur State University (CMT)
Chromatik State University (CMT)
Corinth City University (DRK)
Drawk Corps University (DRK)
Sadeg State University (DRK)
Cemmedy Tech (DRK)
University of Somer (ETM)
Hamilton Institute of Technology (ETM)
Arten Eastern University (FND)
University of Bloodbenderopolis-Invierno (FND)
University of the Wetlands (SAN)
Raynor University (VAL)
University of Hondo (VAL)
Technical College of Vangaziland (VNG)
University of Auster (VNG)
Overglade University (VNG)
College of the Air Force (VNG)
Emperor State University (VNG)

[Banija]

So the hosts would still keep track of each nation's RP bonus on their own, even if they're not currently scorinating that nation's team(s)?
I do think that's a good idea.

Haven't we all been doing that?

I only speak for myself, but considering there was no real reason for me to track the RP bonuses of nations whose schools I was not scorinating, I didn't bother doing so.

[Chromatika]

Haven't we all been doing that?

I only speak for myself, but considering there was no real reason for me to track the RP bonuses of nations whose schools I was not scorinating, I didn't bother doing so.

Same.

[Ceni]

A quick reminder that at large ballots are due at around this time tomorrow.

[United Vietussia]

A quick reminder that at large ballots are due at around this time tomorrow.

I can now begin to gnaw off my fingernails until they never grow back.

[United Vietussia]

Is the NSCAA dead for this season? I haven't heard anything...

[Chromatika]

Is the NSCAA dead for this season? I haven't heard anything...

The At-Large bids have been sent to Ceni, who is working on seeding. It's not dead, I assure you.

[United Vietussia]

Is the NSCAA dead for this season? I haven't heard anything...

The At-Large bids have been sent to Ceni, who is working on seeding. It's not dead, I assure you.

Okay. Phew.

[NSCAA]

We have a bracket! http://challonge.com/nscaa7

I'm going to assign the following matches to be scored by the following countries... although a third party scorinator is requested in all cases where the host has their own school. I'm always available if you guys want me to do it, just TG me. And please contact me if you will be unable to score for some reason, I'd be more than happy to take it or reassign the host.

Matches 1-8: Banija
Matches 9-16: Drawkland
Matches 17-24: Frenline Delpha
Matches 25-32: San Llera

Matches 33-36: Nuevo Caracas
Matches 37-40: Valanora
Matches 41-44: Electrum
Matches 45-48: Chromatika

Matches 49-50: Nuevo Caracas
Matches 51-52: Valanora
Matches 53-54: Electrum
Matches 55-56: Chromatika

Match 57: Nuevo Caracas
Match 58: Valanora
Match 59: Electrum
Match 60: Chromatika

Matches 61-63: Ceni

Our hopeful schedule:
Friday, May 13: Round of 64
Sunday, May 15: Round of 32
Tuesday, May 17: Sweet Sixteen
Thursday, May 19: Elite Eight
Saturday, May 21: Final Four
Monday, May 23: Championship Game

Again, if the schedule doesn't work out for you, just TG me and we'll try to work something out.

[NSCAA]

Oh, and Chrom asked me to make a statement on the RP bonus issue.

Let's set the bonus degrade to 60% of the previous values (i.e. if School X had a score of 10 in the conference, they'll now have a score of 6).

I do have ranking values for each of the 64 schools (which is how I determined seeding), which I'll take a log of and send to the individual hosts. RP bonus should count for 50% of the scorination value now.

As for whose RP bonus to use, I will say this: if you have a RP bonus value for a nation, then just continue on using it from before. If you don't have a value... then you should check to see if they even RPed, since some non-RPing users' schools managed to sneak into the final tournament anyhow. If, after that, you still don't have a value, TG me separately, and I'll give you my RP bonus value, and if I don't have a value, then I'll ask Electrum for his value, and failing that, I'll ask Valanora for her value, and by then, we should have a value for every team.

[Chromatika]

San Llera's results will be taken over by me in the next round (as per the schedule by Ceni). Scoring to be done around 6 PM PDT.

[Valanora]

Well that was fun

[Drawkland]

Well that was fun

Same