General Sports Roleplaying Questions (OOC)

[Barunia]

Civil Citizenry ran a couple editions of an aquatic sports event a few years back. It was called the Water World Championships or something like that. It was actually moderately successful iirc, so you could conceivably try something similar, perhaps with water polo as the centerpiece.

I was considering holding some sort of Rowing event at some point over the summer (probably July) - perhaps they could be combined some how?

If you chuck canoeing in as well, we're in.

[Wray]

I was considering holding some sort of Rowing event at some point over the summer (probably July) - perhaps they could be combined some how?

If you chuck canoeing in as well, we're in.

I was originally just going to have a Rowing Regatta, but if it could come under the proviso of some wider event (including other aquatic events), then canoeing could definitely feature.

Although I'm not really willing to host an event larger than a regatta, so it'd have to be up to someone else.

[Buyan]

Something I possibly proposed once before - but for some reasons it never got started. So far it's a rather vague idea but would there be any interest in a thread where you can IC-banter as a fan of your nation? And would such a thread be possible in NS Sports?
A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

I would like to press on it that this should NOT be a chat-thread but a low-profile, continuous RP - with attention to the fact that this would mean it is IC. IC-sports fan discuss IC-sports.

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

[Bears Armed]

A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

An existing venue that fits those criteria would be Hrrick's Café Ursien...

[Neu Engollon]

Something I possibly proposed once before - but for some reasons it never got started. So far it's a rather vague idea but would there be any interest in a thread where you can IC-banter as a fan of your nation? And would such a thread be possible in NS Sports?
A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

I would like to press on it that this should NOT be a chat-thread but a low-profile, continuous RP - with attention to the fact that this would mean it is IC. IC-sports fan discuss IC-sports.

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

It's normally more of a NationStates forum concept, but I'm all for cross-over threads. Maybe this exists in some form somewhere, but what about expanding it to a unifying thread where everyone could post their own pubs and sports bars with characters, of course, being welcoming to anyone else's characters patronizing their establishment. Perhaps we apply to have our sports bar/pub added to a master list in the OP by filling out details of the place, set up and popular sports to be found broadcast in the joint; popular staff working on any given night; surrounding area, etc.

[The Archregimancy]

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

Apologies - I meant to reply to this yesterday, but lost my internet connection while on a train.

I see nothing wrong with the concept of an IC sports banter thread from a Moderation perspective.

[Farfadillis]

Something I possibly proposed once before - but for some reasons it never got started. So far it's a rather vague idea but would there be any interest in a thread where you can IC-banter as a fan of your nation? And would such a thread be possible in NS Sports?
A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

I would like to press on it that this should NOT be a chat-thread but a low-profile, continuous RP - with attention to the fact that this would mean it is IC. IC-sports fan discuss IC-sports.

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

That's a fantastic idea, count me in!

[The Sword Bloke]

Something I possibly proposed once before - but for some reasons it never got started. So far it's a rather vague idea but would there be any interest in a thread where you can IC-banter as a fan of your nation? And would such a thread be possible in NS Sports?
A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

I would like to press on it that this should NOT be a chat-thread but a low-profile, continuous RP - with attention to the fact that this would mean it is IC. IC-sports fan discuss IC-sports.

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

I can be counted in!

[The Jeckish Union]

Something I possibly proposed once before - but for some reasons it never got started. So far it's a rather vague idea but would there be any interest in a thread where you can IC-banter as a fan of your nation? And would such a thread be possible in NS Sports?
A set-up I had in mind: bar in a multicultural city with 'live sports' and possibly some gambling (with IC money, of course) on the side.

I would like to press on it that this should NOT be a chat-thread but a low-profile, continuous RP - with attention to the fact that this would mean it is IC. IC-sports fan discuss IC-sports.

Although all opinions on this are welcome, I'ld most particularly look to the feedback of Arch as our resident mod.

I definitely like it, it'd fit in quite will with my occasional Disgruntled Jecklander RPs.

[Costa Aluria]

It's normally more of a NationStates forum concept, but I'm all for cross-over threads. Maybe this exists in some form somewhere, but what about expanding it to a unifying thread where everyone could post their own pubs and sports bars with characters, of course, being welcoming to anyone else's characters patronizing their establishment. Perhaps we apply to have our sports bar/pub added to a master list in the OP by filling out details of the place, set up and popular sports to be found broadcast in the joint; popular staff working on any given night; surrounding area, etc.

This is a pretty good idea, and it has my support.

[The Sword Bloke]

By any chance is there any active Australian Football tournaments? If not, I may consider doing one.

[The Jeckish Union]

By any chance is there any active Australian Football tournaments? If not, I may consider doing one.

There was a club one, but it died out.

[The Sword Bloke]

By any chance is there any active Australian Football tournaments? If not, I may consider doing one.

There was a club one, but it died out.

Ah OK. I was thinking of doing an Aussie Rules World Cup.

[The Archregimancy]

There was a club one, but it died out.

Ah OK. I was thinking of doing an Aussie Rules World Cup.

There has been at least one, run by one of this forum's most respected participants back in 2011: viewtopic.php?p=5566057#p5566057

There have also been several attempts at international club competitions, and Australian Rules Football also appeared as an exhibition sport in the VI NS Summer Olympics.

I don't think there's currently an active Australian Rules World Cup, and it's been four years since the first attempt; nonetheless, it might be polite to send Commerce Heights a telegramme to ask if he has any objections to you trying to restart the concept as he was the first person to try, and is still active in this forum.

[Koana Islands]

Does anyone have any experience with using a coefficients system for domestic competitions? I'm using a setup by Jeckland who only goes off the last three years like so:

Points/Games is the base formula, then I multiply by two things:
4x for most recent season, 2x for one before that, 1x for one before that.

My biggest concern is how much movement there will be by teams to keep things organic. Most coefficient systems IRL tend to keep the status quo rather than rewarding those who perform well.

My question is does anyone reward or punish teams (by RP or pure entertainment) to keep from the teams finishing in more or less the same position season after season?

[Polar Islandstates]

I use a coefficient system going back five years for my ranks, and I do get a reasonable amount of chopping and changing. I've seen one club in particular rise from obscurity and fade back into the ether, and many clubs have become ones known for bouncing between the divisions.

I also do things like manually manipulate the ranks based on things like a good signing, loss of a beloved manager, etc. This is done post calculation and just made up as I put them into the scorinator. Worth considering for storyline purposes.

[Barunia]

Does anyone have any experience with using a coefficients system for domestic competitions? I'm using a setup by Jeckland who only goes off the last three years like so:

Points/Games is the base formula, then I multiply by two things:
4x for most recent season, 2x for one before that, 1x for one before that.

My biggest concern is how much movement there will be by teams to keep things organic. Most coefficient systems IRL tend to keep the status quo rather than rewarding those who perform well.

My question is does anyone reward or punish teams (by RP or pure entertainment) to keep from the teams finishing in more or less the same position season after season?

I've got a spreadsheet I built with (almost) full customisation that can do up to five seasons, and can add bonuses based on tier as well as performance. I have been working on getting it ready for use by other on NS. I suppose it is ready, just need to load it up to google docs or something. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll keep you posted.

[Koana Islands]

I'd love to have a look at if you don't mind.

[Recuecn]

I developed a system for my league using the points from the points from the standings to rank the teams, and then the average of the last five years. (Although I haven't actually done 5 seasons yet, lol. I just give the original rankings more weight to balance it until I will have.) However, I'm thinking that my system is perhaps a little too much in favor of the status quo. We'll see.

I would definitely be interested in seeing what Barunia's been working on. I believe I expressed interest in it before, as well.

[Koana Islands]

The other issue is ranking leagues between puppet states. I want to run a Champions League of sorts and need to know of a way to rank teams in such a way so that some leagues are stronger than others.

[Nova Anglicana]

The other issue is ranking leagues between puppet states. I want to run a Champions League of sorts and need to know of a way to rank teams in such a way so that some leagues are stronger than others.

I just took the coefficients from the best association and kept them as they were, then subtracted a certain number from the other associations' teams coefficients based on how good they were.

Example

4 associations, max score of 10

Association A sends two teams with coefficients of 8 and 9 in their association. Association A is the best one, so they keep their 8 and 9.

Association B sends two teams, coefficients 9 and 6. Subtract 1 for being the second-best association, and you get 8 and 5.

Association C sends two teams, coefficients 8.5 and 7. Subtract 2 for being the third-best association, and you get 6.5 and 5.

Association D sends two teams, coefficients 9.5 and 4. Subtract 3 for being the fourth-best association, and you get 6.5 and 1.

You can choose to do it another way, or modify how much you're going to add or subtract or whatever.

[Koana Islands]

I'm not sure if that'll work with my setup. I have four nations who accrue coefficient points depending on how many points each team from their respective association scores in the previous Champions League group stage.

Seasons		
Nation		Points		14-15	13-14	12-13
Ianoia		20.750		10.667	6.000	4.083
Koana Islands	16.958		9.167	5.833	1.958
Gunsovolk	12.875		7.500	3.417	1.958
Le Grout	0.000		0.000	0.000	0.000

Yet domestically, all the leagues use the same formula which rewards points per game which is heavily weighted to the most recent season like so:

Ianoia

Team Name		Points		14-15	13-14	12-13
Knitsley City		22.265		8.118	6.882	7.265
Mynyddslwyn Green	21.588		12.235	7.471	1.882
Souldrop		19.824		14.118	3.882	1.824
Wickmere		19.765		4.824	7.000	7.941
Cuckney			19.294		4.824	8.588	5.882
Cogshall		18.471		14.118	3.471	0.882
Caunton			16.824		12.000	3.235	1.588
Badlesmere		13.265		4.353	3.176	5.735
Ulcombe United		12.294		7.529	3.000	1.765
The Dockyards		9.634		5.765	2.941	0.929
Oldstead City		9.235		5.412	2.412	1.412
Bromsberrow		7.794		3.647	2.412	1.735
Byfleet City		7.794		4.588	2.353	0.853
Hardenhuish		7.794		4.118	2.706	0.971
Holdingham		7.720		4.190	2.059	1.471
Newcastle City		6.850		4.238	1.588	1.024

Koana Islands

Team Name		Points		14-15	13-14	12-13
Snoflinga Stad		21.513		12.075	7.750	1.688
Grenada Atletisk	17.325		7.800	3.754	5.771
Paradis Sjö IF		16.892		3.600	7.267	6.025
Ny Aucklanda Skog	15.740		3.733	6.067	5.940
Erana Kullar IF		15.725		10.942	3.450	1.333
IFK Splimopia		15.267		10.600	3.600	1.067
AIK Dunnhamn		14.946		5.600	3.046	6.300
Vizhune IF		14.333		9.933	3.167	1.233
Vattenvadställe		14.100		4.000	8.267	1.833
Udde Fruktträdgård FK	12.367		8.500	2.667	1.200
Udde Korall Vänskap	10.979		6.092	3.258	1.629
AIK Aigburth		10.500		6.900	2.600	1.000
Sandford Stad IK	10.208		6.375	2.600	1.233
Shettleston FK		9.923		5.867	2.533	1.523
Ängelar Förenta		9.700		5.733	2.533	1.433
Jonestan Raseri		9.408		6.375	2.000	1.033

Gunsovolk

Team Name		Points		14-15	13-14	12-13
FC Sorgenfrei		29.263		13.579	9.421	6.263
Ruigoord FC		24.000		9.368	8.526	6.105
Lokomotive Barentsz	23.816		7.789	9.053	6.974
Eintracht Ruysch	16.816		7.158	7.684	1.974
BSG Geldstadt		14.421		5.684	2.947	5.789
Kekerdom		14.026		8.316	4.105	1.605
VfR Shoof		12.500		7.368	3.684	1.447
Berümt 1908		10.474		5.895	3.211	1.368
Lockstedt Kickers	10.263		6.105	2.842	1.316
Toerk SC		9.553		5.474	2.632	1.447
1. FC Hammerum		9.368		6.000	2.316	1.053
Halvö GSC		9.263		4.632	3.211	1.421
Taagerup		7.947		4.105	2.526	1.316
Heijen Gebirge		7.612		4.421	2.214	0.976
Eintracht Verstegen	7.289		4.737	1.579	0.974
Schuever-Oranje		7.136		3.789	2.263	1.083

Considering FC Sorgenfrei ran away with the title in their respective league (which means they have a higher coefficient score), yet are part of a worse league (according to coefficients) I don't know how to weight each league so FC Sorgenfrei isn't the most easily dominant team in the Champions League.

[Buyan]

Maybe it's too simple a solution, but maybe give adding them (association score + domestic score) to one another a try?

[Osarius]

I don't know how to weight each league so FC Sorgenfrei isn't the most easily dominant team in the Champions League.

There are a lot of ways to do this, and really it's just a case of trial and error until you get the desired effect. It looks to me like the main concern you have is that you need to weight the strength of the association higher than the club's individual coefficient...

You could mimic UEFA's system, which takes the sum of the club coefficients over 5 seasons and adds 20% of the league/association coefficient. But that might not make enough of a change based on league strength for what you appear to need.

You could try using a ratio system. Set the highest ranked league as 1.0 and calculate the ratio of the others related to that. Use that as a multiplier. For example, league coefficients are 20, 15, 8, 6. Apply multipliers of (20/20), (15/20), (8/20) and (6/20) to the league coefficients, respectively and apply those to the club coefficients. This should sufficiently nerf the teams from weaker leagues (though if they have zero points as a league, you're kind of shafted; perhaps apply this to the league coefficient and add it instead... not sure, don't really have time to experiment right now)

Problem there is that this might create too large a gap between champions from each league. So perhaps scale the values compared to the mean instead. Using the same example values, the mean is 12.25. Calculate the difference from the mean for each value, and then apply those values as the modifiers to the club coefficients, so you get +7.75, +2.75, -4.25, -6.25 respectively. This is just a fancier method of what Nova Anglicana suggested, though.

I can make suggestions all day, but I really can't give you an "answer" to the problem because it will vary based on your desired outcome, really. What kind of chances do you want the weaker leagues to have, for example? Would you expect the weakest champions to beat the strongest champions once every ten attempts? Twenty? Almost never? This is why I say it's best to experiment until you have the desired effect. There are no right or wrong ways, just ways that suit your intent better.

[Barunia]

For those of you interested, the spreadsheet can be downloaded here.

Koana Islands, to shake things up a bit and avoid the same team winning, try the bonus system (right hand side of the skill generator tab). If you play around with the tier modifier you should be able to reduce or increase a team's individual bonus while still maintaining the points they've earned over six seasons (and it is 6, not 5 seasons. I built it bigger than I thought )

EDIT: Having had a closer look at your problem, Koana, I had the same issue with my lower tier teams having a better skill than the winner of the top tier. That's why I built the tier system into the bonus system. That will reduce the amount of bonus a team gets the further down the tier system they go.