General Sports Roleplaying Questions (OOC)

[Recuecn]

Well, thanks for the advice, guys! It's nice to have a definite, solid opinion given, especially when two people give the same advice.

[The Archregimancy]

Right, so... a couple of important forum points were allowed to fall by the wayside at the beginning of November when RL meant I had to go into a period of inactivity, for which apologies.

So let's try and catch up quickly....

Point the first:

This isn't an RP question as such, but it does impact all of NS Sports, so this seemed to be the best thread in which to raise the point....

The moderation team are considering starting an "NS Sports Chat Thread" for informal OOC chat between NS Sports participants.

Pro: Would lessen the amount of slightly spammy chat posting that sometimes takes place in the larger event discussion threads (especially the WCDT)

Con: Might discourage some of the less spammy friendly banter that helps build a sense of community in event discussion threads

I thought I would open this up for comment by the entire NS Sports community before making a final decision - so have at it... Is this something you'd like to see?

After long discussion, and taking on board the responses in this thread, we've decided that we won't be starting a dedicated NSSports chat thread.


Point the second:

A fair question that I've often wondered about myself. I could pedantically point out that it's an announcement thread rather than a discussion thread, but that still doesn't get around the fact that we have an event-specific sticky.

The true answer is "I don't know".

That’s a fair answer.

I think it happened before I became a mod, and inertia means that I've never done anything about it.

Then I’ll ask that you do something about it.

The final decision here is as follows:

On further review, I will neither unsticky the WC announcements thread or sticky the Olympic announcements thread. There's a variety of reasons, some of them logical, some of them subjective, and some of them based on tradition. Either way, some people would be happy, and some people would be unhappy.

What I will consider, however, is the following:

If the elected presidents of the World Cup and Olympics organising bodies both ask me, after consulting with their constituencies, for a stickied joint announcements thread for the two largest tournaments in NS Sports, I'll be willing to grant that request.

But the request has to come from the presidents as the duly elected representatives of those bodies.

[Coreyo Sports]

Is there a specific place in the forum or a specific nation that can help me with sports jersey design? Please TG me, for I might forget to look in this thread.

[Southwest Eastnorth]

Would anyone have any interest in Sports Car Style Racing series?

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

The final decision here is as follows:

On further review, I will neither unsticky the WC announcements thread or sticky the Olympic announcements thread. There's a variety of reasons, some of them logical, some of them subjective, and some of them based on tradition. Either way, some people would be happy, and some people would be unhappy.

What I will consider, however, is the following:

If the elected presidents of the World Cup and Olympics organising bodies both ask me, after consulting with their constituencies, for a stickied joint announcements thread for the two largest tournaments in NS Sports, I'll be willing to grant that request.

But the request has to come from the presidents as the duly elected representatives of those bodies.

On behalf of the NSRB, I would like to suggest making that a NS Sports Announcements thread, which would be more inclusive of all the sports on NS Sports, not just the top two most 'popular' ones. At least those sports with backing executive or organizing committees and boards (ie Rugby) should be included. I will speak to Green Jello Salad about making that official request on our behalf, in advance of your anticipated fair and balanced consideration for all NS Sports players. Thank you for your consideration.

- Neu Engollon, NSRB Union VP

[Green Jello Salad]

On behalf of the NSRB, I would like to suggest making that a NS Sports Announcements thread, which would be more inclusive of all the sports on NS Sports, not just the top two most 'popular' ones. At least those sports with backing executive or organizing committees and boards (ie Rugby) should be included. I will speak to Green Jello Salad about making that official request on our behalf, in advance of your anticipated fair and balanced consideration for all NS Sports players. Thank you for your consideration.

- Neu Engollon, NSRB Union VP

As NSRB president, let me add to the comments of my Executive Council colleague.

First: If a single stickied NS Sports announcement thread were extended beyond the World Cup cycle and the Olympics, I would unreservedly support rugby's addition to that thread. The track record of the sport here is quite long. And I'm confident that the Executive Council would take all necessary steps to poll the rugby community.

Second: This option is not yet on the table officially, for one overriding reason in my view--where does the line get drawn? Trying to support twenty or more organised sports in one thread is a cure worse than the disease. And trying to set an equitable standard for inclusion of particular sports/series opens several cans of worms. How much track record, how many past events, how many participating nations, how much infrastructure is "enough?" Are association football and the NS Olympic movement simply of an order of magnitude beyond all other organised NS sports?

Food for thought.

[The Archregimancy]

It's a potentially useful discussion, and I will monitor any further comments accordingly - though without in any way implying support for or against a particular position.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

One thing to consider - do we allow non-top level tournaments to be in the announcement thread? As the organizer of the International Baseball Slam, which recently finished its eighth edition and is the second-biggest baseball tournament on the forum, that's something that concerns me. Also, the most recent IBS was more active RP wise than the last WBC, though that could be an anomaly on account of the bizarre format the latter used. So do we include that? Or does it have to be a top-level tournament? If it does, is the Cup of Harmony considered a top-level tournament? Is the Baptism of Fire? Is the Baptism of Iron? Those are all run by the same entity as the main tournament, unlike the IBS, so you could argue they're different. But then should we count the World Junior Hockey Championship and Royal Alexandre Hockey Invitational as well since those are run by the WCoHF? These are all questions we need to answer, and I don't claim to have the answers.

[Apox]

Basically, in terms of participation the World Cup (and by proxy the entire umbrella of WCC tournaments) and the Olympics are by far the biggest and most important events on this sub forum, with both tournaments having as many active RPers as the size of any other tournaments. This is shown by (at least since I've been on the forums), the WCC having a membership of around 65+ users (so that's just actively RPing people) and the Olympics having a larger membership than that (even if the criteria for being a Olympic member is a tad lower).

It's also well agreed that to host, the Olympics and the World Cup past surpass anything else in terms of organisation, effort and time that have to be put into them.

For that reason, I think it's probably fairly reasonable to have (should this be what ends up occurring) a joint stickied announcements thread for those two tournaments, and those two alone. As mentioned above, adding in extra tournaments will create a greater degree of confusion over what is and what isn't "big" enough to be warranted inclusion in the thread as well as creating a much more cluttered thread in general.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Eastfield Lodge]

I'll second what Apox says, but I think there should be a Non-Stickied Announcement thread that other sports can use.

[Free Republics]

My stance on it is that there should be a general NS Sports Announcements Thread for major events. I'd propose limiting the thread to non-regional events run by an organized committee. This restriction would allow such a thread to be utilized by all major events, but avoid cluttering it with regional tournaments, minor tournaments, personal tournaments and poorly organized events that purport to be the "World Cup" or the "Olympics." Yes, this would require those of us in the IBC to finally move forward on that Constitution that has been on hold for nearly a year if we want in the Announcement Thread, but that's something that probably needs to happen anyway.

As for the BoF, CoH and BoI, they are basically part of the World Cup and the World Bowl, respectively, so I see no reason why announcements related to those events couldn't go in a general announcements thread.

There's a case for limiting it to WCC and Olympic events, but there's also another logical cutoff point that should be considered.

[Neu Engollon]

Obviously, there would need to be some kind of guidelines to be included in such a sticky thread. Some level of organization to be included that a lot of sports in this forum lack. Should second tier or 'non-top level' tournaments be included? Well, that goes back to if they are run by the same organizing body for that particular sport, or a one-off by an individual. CoH and BoF are still under the WCC auspices, so yeah, they should probably get some mention.

If this is only about popularity, then yes, association football and Olympics are the most popular. Everything else will always take second fiddle to them, at least in this forum on this site. Going by a popular vote alone, nothing will change and most that are going to speak up are going to weigh in heavily for keeping the status quo, or including only the top two popular sports. Not everyone's favorite sport is association football, but that doesn't matter. Saying it is the most popular on this forum is fact. Saying that it is the 'biggest and most important' sport for any reason other than participation is not fact and is totally subjective to an individual's opinion. I just hope we get that clear, and don't mix those two lines of thought up.

I was coming from the perspective that I would like to see rugby have an equal opportunity to reach out to new players and expand at the rate that some of the top few sports have, by being able to be included in the discussion. Both as a huge fan, and seeing it as part of my duties as a member of the Executive Council of the NSRB, I wanted to see that happen, or at least see it part of the discussion.

By the same token, being part of a group trying to resurrect bobsledding(sleigh) and organize it, I wouldn't expect or particularly wish for it to be included in such a thread, no matter how organized we got, because that would get kind of ridiculous and there needs to be some boundaries for inclusiveness. I get that.

Ultimately, I realize that its just one stickied thread and not going to be an earthshaker if rugby (or hockey, baseball or gridiron) isn't considered worthy enough to be included, as we will just continue to do our thing and reach out and organize in other ways.

EDIT: I guess I was writing at the same time as Free Republics, so I also Ditto everything he said. Hence the redundancy.

[Eastfield Lodge]

My stance on it is that there should be a general NS Sports Announcements Thread for major events. I'd propose limiting the thread to non-regional events run by an organized committee. This restriction would allow such a thread to be utilized by all major events, but avoid cluttering it with regional tournaments, minor tournaments, personal tournaments and poorly organized events that purport to be the "World Cup" or the "Olympics." Yes, this would require those of us in the IBC to finally move forward on that Constitution that has been on hold for nearly a year if we want in the Announcement Thread, but that's something that probably needs to happen anyway.

One way you could combat the possibility of clutter is having the official nations (i.e. NSWC signups, NS Rugby Board Executive Council and so on) be the only eligible posters in such an announcements thread.

[San Jose Guayabal]

Well, Osarius and I prepared a somewhat detailed explanation on how hosting works that we posted on the World Fair III and could be posted if necessary, still, it's about posting, considering that there's a good amount of new nations willing to host with limited or zero previous experience, those guidelines that we made could help to those new users.

Here it is, the link

[Gregoryisgodistan]

My stance on it is that there should be a general NS Sports Announcements Thread for major events. I'd propose limiting the thread to non-regional events run by an organized committee. This restriction would allow such a thread to be utilized by all major events, but avoid cluttering it with regional tournaments, minor tournaments, personal tournaments and poorly organized events that purport to be the "World Cup" or the "Olympics." Yes, this would require those of us in the IBC to finally move forward on that Constitution that has been on hold for nearly a year if we want in the Announcement Thread, but that's something that probably needs to happen anyway.

As for the BoF, CoH and BoI, they are basically part of the World Cup and the World Bowl, respectively, so I see no reason why announcements related to those events couldn't go in a general announcements thread.

There's a case for limiting it to WCC and Olympic events, but there's also another logical cutoff point that should be considered.

This still raises questions though - how do you handle things like the Royal Alexandre Hockey Invitational and World Junior Hockey Championships, which, while relatively minor events, are run by the World Cup of Hockey Federation, which as its name implies also handles the World Cup of Hockey? To my knowledge hockey is the only sport where the same organizing committee that runs the major tournaments runs the minor tournaments as well, so it wouldn't impact the other sports.

[The Archregimancy]

If I'm not offering an opinion either way on the thread issue, it's because I'd prefer for this to be something that the NS Sports community resolves for itself - I'd merely be the facilitator on the technical aspects.

But you do need to make sure that you have full input from the duly elected representatives of both the WCC and the Olympics before deciding on any changes - always assuming that change is considered desirable, which you might decide isn't the case.

[Ceni]

This still raises questions though - how do you handle things like the Royal Alexandre Hockey Invitational and World Junior Hockey Championships, which, while relatively minor events, are run by the World Cup of Hockey Federation, which as its name implies also handles the World Cup of Hockey? To my knowledge hockey is the only sport where the same organizing committee that runs the major tournaments runs the minor tournaments as well, so it wouldn't impact the other sports.

The ATP runs both Grand Slam events (major events) and minor events in tennis, but a lot of people have no interest/idea in tennis.

[Neu Engollon]

Some questions to all the recent hosts of major tournaments on this sub-forum:

I'd like to get some insight on how you (hopefully) objectively grade RPs. I mean beyond the basic info you put in your host bids - What do you really look for? What certain things don't you like to see in rosters? How big a factor is it that someone RPs about the sport, or vice versa, something 'refreshingly different' about something outside of the sport? Does your knowledge of a fellow player in your region or a fellow sports focused region and their style factor into your decision? Also, how big a bonus do you really give to yourself as host when competing?

[Gregoryisgodistan]

I recently hosted International Baseball Slam VIII as well as the last two Baptisms of Iron....

Some questions to all the recent hosts of major tournaments on this sub-forum:

I'd like to get some insight on how you (hopefully) objectively grade RPs. I mean beyond the basic info you put in your host bids - What do you really look for?

I don't look for anything specific. Instead, I look for anything that makes an RP unique - humor, distinct style, or something like that rather than boringly reiterating the scorers and other basic information about what happened. I grade rosters more generously than normal RPs because of the importance of them - a mediocre roster will earn more bonus than a mediocre RP. I also look for RPs which interact with other users, myself included as host (even if, as with the Baptism of Iron, I am not participating in the tournament.) Although I grade generously, it is rare for me to give a max score for a single day - that would have to be truly remarkable and amazing, one of the best I've seen. You can come close though.

What certain things don't you like to see in rosters?

The roster should demonstrate some understanding of the sport, rather than just listing the players without any information. I would make an exception if a suitable IC reason is provided for this absence of information, such as if nobody in the country really plays the sport in an organized manner, so they recruited a recreational team with no assigned positions. Other background information, like stadium, uniforms, or other cool facts is a plus too.

How big a factor is it that someone RPs about the sport, or vice versa, something 'refreshingly different' about something outside of the sport?

None. I would evaluate it on other factors.

Does your knowledge of a fellow player in your region or a fellow sports focused region and their style factor into your decision?

None directly, though background knowledge of a player may influence how I handle questionable RPs that may have been posted in good faith. For instance, if a player who I know does not speak English as a first language says they "won" the other team, I would use that background knowledge to assume they meant "defeated" and that it was a grammatical error in good faith, not a gross RP permissions violation in which they are claiming ownership of the other team as a victory prize. They would not be penalized.

If, on the other hand, I knew the user was a native English speaker and they had a history of violating others' RP permissions, and there was nothing else in the RP to indicate this was simply a case of using the wrong verb, I might be less generous. That being said, this specific example has never happened and I don't expect it to. Every time I've seen it, they've simply used the wrong verb, though I could imagine a scenario where that isn't the case.

Similarly, if a nation has a history of RPing an unreliable press which makes ridiculous but false claims, I would be less likely to treat such claims as violating other users' RP permissions - rather, I would assume they were false IC-ly until I was given reason to believe otherwise. If an average user gave no OOC indication that their ridiculous IC claims were false, I would be less generous and penalize them. But some nations, and some characters in particular within those nations, are known for spewing false propaganda, and I would take that background information into account when deciding whether something crossed the line. Rule Theriault, for instance, has an established history of spewing propaganda, while Princess Cadence does not. Therefore, I would be more likely to assume something the latter said was supposed to be true IC-ly (and thus godmodding) than to do the same for Theriault, unless given reason to believe otherwise. (Note: I'm not accusing EQS of godmodding, this is just a hypothetical.)

Also, how big a bonus do you really give to yourself as host when competing?

Again, of the three recent tournaments I hosted, the only one I participated in was the International Baseball Slam. This was not a major tournament, and as such I didn't give myself any additional RP Bonus other than what I earned through my RPs and roster. However, I did include the IC information I provided as host as part of my Matchday 1 RP Bonus, which resulted in me receiving nearly the maximum score for that day, higher than anyone else, as it was quite extensive. Someone could have matched it by RPing something equally detailed about something else, but nobody did. As RP Bonus was cumulative, it carried forward to future days as well.

[Costa Aluria]

I think RP grading can easily become a slippery slope. What some people consider good, others might see as complete trash. Since it is so subjective, it really makes a difference in the scoring. One scorer might rate a particular RP highly, while another not so much. Which is why in the events I have hosted (South Seas Outrigger Jubilee, Yukon River Sled Dog Expedition), I have gone the complete opposite in my scoring. Essentially, I adopted a yes/no split. If a nation RPed at all (not counting a four-liner or less), then they got the RP bonus. Now, clearly, these two events were not major events, so part of my criteria was that I was merely looking for participation. But at the same time, I don't feel like it is my place to judge how an individual RPs, so long as they invest some real energy into doing so.

For those who are scoring and not adopting a yes/no split, I think perhaps it is helpful to delineate what criteria will render a higher scoring bonus than others, so that everybody is on the same page. If you are looking for humor, just say so. Something unique? Again, just say so. Still, these are subjective, but at least it gives an individual writer a place to start.

[Liventia]

For those who are scoring and not adopting a yes/no split, I think perhaps it is helpful to delineate what criteria will render a higher scoring bonus than others, so that everybody is on the same page. If you are looking for humor, just say so. Something unique? Again, just say so. Still, these are subjective, but at least it gives an individual writer a place to start.

That rather defeats the original point of RPing – for the fun of it, not for the bonus.

[Saintland]

I try to stay neutral regarding RP styles and whether somebody RPs about the event or about something else. The only styles of RP that I'm actively biased against are the ones that pretty much everybody agrees are bad (such as one liners, posting a list of scorers and statistics as an RP or "My team won!!!"). I use the entire bonus scale and don't give out the maximum bonus very often (actually, there's only a handful of times I've ever done that). Granted, everybody's going to like certain styles of RP and dislike others and you probably can't ever fully avoid some unconscious bias, but conscious bias is a bad thing.

For rosters, I go with a lower max bonus than for RPs since they're usually copied and pasted from one edition of a tournament to the next and since I want those who actually RP to end up with the lion's share of the bonus. Plus, large roster bonuses can increase the likelihood of fluke deep runs by very lowly ranked or unranked nations when certain scorinator settings are used (hence why I left roster bonus entirely out of my, unsuccessful, bids for WBCs 31 and 33). Sometimes, I've just assigned a flat bonus to anybody who posted an adequate roster (with a smaller bonus for inadequate rosters) and treated anything extra as an RP. Other times, I've used a scale for roster bonus.

Regarding host bonus, I try to avoid situations where I'd have to award it. Thus, I tend to bid solo for events when I'm not planning on RPing much in that event but with a co-host for events where I intend to RP. Its an awkward situation to be in and I probably err on the cautious side when awarding RP bonuses to myself. I consider IC information to be something that is expected out of a host and wouldn't count that toward my RP bonus. There are 2 times as a host where I've given myself a large bonus. The first was World Bowl XXII, where my teams had home advantage (because I didn't understand just how large of an effect SQIS home advantage had on results at the time) and the other was the Winter Olympics, where the host bonus was disclosed in my bid and where large host bonuses have been customary over the years. Otherwise, I don't really recall awarding myself large RP bonuses.

[Ko-oren]

I want to change my main nation from Ko-oren to a nation I just created; how do I communicate this to everyone so my new nation can use all my old rankings?

[Gregoryisgodistan]

I want to change my main nation from Ko-oren to a nation I just created; how do I communicate this to everyone so my new nation can use all my old rankings?

Is the nation the IC successor to Ko-oren? If so, just post it in the next signup thread for each tournament and note that. You'll need to confirm with both nations.

[Valanora]

Some questions to all the recent hosts of major tournaments on this sub-forum:

I'd like to get some insight on how you (hopefully) objectively grade RPs. I mean beyond the basic info you put in your host bids - What do you really look for? What certain things don't you like to see in rosters? How big a factor is it that someone RPs about the sport, or vice versa, something 'refreshingly different' about something outside of the sport? Does your knowledge of a fellow player in your region or a fellow sports focused region and their style factor into your decision? Also, how big a bonus do you really give to yourself as host when competing?

I personally look for creativity, humor, or well written text. Not everyone can craft elaborate storylines and they shouldn't be punished for that, nor if time or lack of muse reduces them to mere match reports. While I don't require that the sport be RPed, I do like if there is at least some sort of allude to it in the RP, if only brief. As for hosting bonus, I usually give myself and/or the cohost the equivalent of a single MD worth of RP bonus to simulate the host advantage, otherwise there isn't any.