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Scorinators (OOC Discussion)

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]

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Banija
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Postby Banija » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:52 pm

OK.

I've had this problem happen to me multiple times in xkoronate, and it's easily something that honestly just ticks me off to no end and seriously angers me, because of everything that I lose and then all the extra tie that I need to spend rebuilding files that I once had(fetching old results to throw them into the table generator, digging up RP scores and re-entering entire large files into the system, etc...)

I tried to open a document in xkoronate today, and it gave me the following error-

"The document ended unexpectedly
The error occured at line 1 column 2"

This appears when I try to open a document within xkornate. And since that appears when I try to open it, I can't open anything in the file. WLC stuff, domestic league stuff, etc... All disappeared. And this happened to me twice. It happened in December, because I remember specifically being halfway through my league season and that happening, and having to spend hours not only re-inputting teams, but re-inputting the results of my season through Matchday 24, and having to spend the extra time reinputtig future results, as well as having to use old scores to figure out the schedule so I could schedule correctly for the rest of that league season... And I'm not looking at doing that again. A lot of time spent doing work that is 100% unnecessary because of this, and time not doing what I'm here to do- RP and enjoy reading the good RP from others.

And now, today, it has happened again. Fortunately the WLCs were easier to recover (as I alwasy save my RP grades in excel and I only lost four matchdays worth of results) but still, lots of extra time spent backtracking and fixing this.

Has anyone else ever had this problem before? How was it approached? Or if nobdoy else has seen anything else, any advice on what I could be doing wrong, or ways for me to change the way I do things, so I can prevent it from happening again?

Also, side note- the actual program of xkoronate works for me. It's just opening specific files is where this tends to happen. And I've never, outside of xkoronate, seen this happen anywhere on my computer, from any kind of file, including XML docs.
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:48 am

Have you actually opened the xml file in question in a text editor to find out what the problem is at line 1, column 2 that could be causing the issue?
Last edited by Liventia on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Povolzhye Khaganate
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Postby Povolzhye Khaganate » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:51 pm

Hello.

So, I'm hoping to do a Eurovision-style contest for my region to participate in, and I was wondering if there was not only a scorinator that was compatible with that sort of contest, but also (preferably) works in the browser and thus, does not require downloading. If there isn't a browser scorinator, I can certainly download a good and easy-to-use scorinator.

Thank you. :)
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Free Republics
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Postby Free Republics » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:23 pm

Povolzhye Khaganate wrote:
Hello.

So, I'm hoping to do a Eurovision-style contest for my region to participate in, and I was wondering if there was not only a scorinator that was compatible with that sort of contest, but also (preferably) works in the browser and thus, does not require downloading. If there isn't a browser scorinator, I can certainly download a good and easy-to-use scorinator.

Thank you. :)


I'm not aware of any scorinator for song contests and, unless things can changed since I last entered, WorldVision (a long-running event over in the NationStates subforum that afaik is based on the RL Eurovision) uses a voting system where you're not allowed to vote for your own song.

If you're looking to do something where everybody will be expected to write out a song and performance, I'd recommend a voting system like WorldVision uses over a scorinator. If you're not actually writing out the songs and just need some point scores, you could probably scorinate it as figure skating or gymnastics or some other Olympic sport that uses judges.
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Nekoni
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Postby Nekoni » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:50 pm

Yeah, the current contest is in its sign-up phase.

A few nations do their own national finals, but considering that the contest scoring is based off of song and RP quality, it might not be the thing your looking for? I don’t think this kind of contest can get away with scorination.
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Jebslund
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Postby Jebslund » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:45 am

Jebslund wrote:Question: Do any of Xkoranate's sports work for something like the robot battles in the Custom Robo series?

This wasn't a joke. Would someone like to answer please?
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Drawkland
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Postby Drawkland » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:42 am

Jebslund wrote:
Jebslund wrote:Question: Do any of Xkoranate's sports work for something like the robot battles in the Custom Robo series?

This wasn't a joke. Would someone like to answer please?

Well, it depends. If you wanted to have some extra stats, like remaining HP, damage done, weapons used, then no. You can't really do something like that in xkoranate.

However, if you just want a simple "Player A defeats Player B," then the Judo scorinator on xkoranate will work like a charm for you. It takes in two players for a match and then just determines a straight winner. No scores, no tiebreakers, just a simple "A def. B".
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Jebslund
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Postby Jebslund » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:52 am

Drawkland wrote:
Jebslund wrote:This wasn't a joke. Would someone like to answer please?

Well, it depends. If you wanted to have some extra stats, like remaining HP, damage done, weapons used, then no. You can't really do something like that in xkoranate.

However, if you just want a simple "Player A defeats Player B," then the Judo scorinator on xkoranate will work like a charm for you. It takes in two players for a match and then just determines a straight winner. No scores, no tiebreakers, just a simple "A def. B".

Okay. Does it have a way to simulate which one is more "skilled" or do RP bonuses?
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Equestrian States
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Postby Equestrian States » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:25 pm

Jebslund wrote:
Drawkland wrote:Well, it depends. If you wanted to have some extra stats, like remaining HP, damage done, weapons used, then no. You can't really do something like that in xkoranate.

However, if you just want a simple "Player A defeats Player B," then the Judo scorinator on xkoranate will work like a charm for you. It takes in two players for a match and then just determines a straight winner. No scores, no tiebreakers, just a simple "A def. B".

Okay. Does it have a way to simulate which one is more "skilled" or do RP bonuses?

Sure. Just set a number in the "maximum skill" field and assign the individual entrants numbers based on whatever scale you use in the corresponding "skill" column.
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Drawkland
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Postby Drawkland » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:26 pm

Jebslund wrote:
Drawkland wrote:Well, it depends. If you wanted to have some extra stats, like remaining HP, damage done, weapons used, then no. You can't really do something like that in xkoranate.

However, if you just want a simple "Player A defeats Player B," then the Judo scorinator on xkoranate will work like a charm for you. It takes in two players for a match and then just determines a straight winner. No scores, no tiebreakers, just a simple "A def. B".

Okay. Does it have a way to simulate which one is more "skilled" or do RP bonuses?

Just like any xkoranate function, you can enter one's skill/RP bonus on the "Skill" column in the "Participants" entry screen.

For reference, you should never use the "Bonuses" tab above "Events" on the left-hand column. That's only used for multi-sport events like the Olympics. Any skill/rank/RP bonus/other factors determining a participant's skill should just be entered as one total number in the aforementioned Skill column.

EDIT: ninja'd, what EQS just said is also correct.
Last edited by Drawkland on Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Povolzhye Khaganate
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Postby Povolzhye Khaganate » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:23 pm

Free Republics wrote:
Povolzhye Khaganate wrote:
Hello.

So, I'm hoping to do a Eurovision-style contest for my region to participate in, and I was wondering if there was not only a scorinator that was compatible with that sort of contest, but also (preferably) works in the browser and thus, does not require downloading. If there isn't a browser scorinator, I can certainly download a good and easy-to-use scorinator.

Thank you. :)


I'm not aware of any scorinator for song contests and, unless things can changed since I last entered, WorldVision (a long-running event over in the NationStates subforum that afaik is based on the RL Eurovision) uses a voting system where you're not allowed to vote for your own song.

If you're looking to do something where everybody will be expected to write out a song and performance, I'd recommend a voting system like WorldVision uses over a scorinator. If you're not actually writing out the songs and just need some point scores, you could probably scorinate it as figure skating or gymnastics or some other Olympic sport that uses judges.

Thanks for the response! I apologise, I've been out of it lately, so I only just saw this.

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to write songs—as this is only within one region, rather than across the entire community, so participation isn't expected to be high—and I'm only looking to scorinate; factoring in roleplaying as well, of course. And, what scorinator would you recommend that is used for Olympic sports that use judges?
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Qusmo
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Postby Qusmo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Hey, all. I'm thinking of creating a puppet where intranational travel would be much more difficult, which would lend itself to greater home field advantage (as visitors' supporters would be less likely to turn out & the visitors themselves would be more tired from their trips). In xkoranate, there's a way to turn home field advantage on or off, but there's no way (as far as I know to alter the level of home field advantage applied - whether to make it higher or lower, whether to make it league-wide (as I described) or specific to individual teams (such as one team having a particularly strong home field advantage) or specific to certain matchups (such as adjusting the advantage for derbies). Is there any way to do any of that, whether on xkoranate or another platform?
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Darmen
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Postby Darmen » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Qusmo wrote:Hey, all. I'm thinking of creating a puppet where intranational travel would be much more difficult, which would lend itself to greater home field advantage (as visitors' supporters would be less likely to turn out & the visitors themselves would be more tired from their trips). In xkoranate, there's a way to turn home field advantage on or off, but there's no way (as far as I know to alter the level of home field advantage applied - whether to make it higher or lower, whether to make it league-wide (as I described) or specific to individual teams (such as one team having a particularly strong home field advantage) or specific to certain matchups (such as adjusting the advantage for derbies). Is there any way to do any of that, whether on xkoranate or another platform?

You would need to edit the XML file itself. The two lines to edit would be (assuming you're talking about football-SQIS shown):
<double type="homeAdvantage">1.333333333333</double>
<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

This would apply a higher home advantage league wide. I'm fairly certain there's no way to do it for individual teams unless you scorinate each match individually.
Last edited by Darmen on Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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95X
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Postby 95X » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:17 pm

Qusmo wrote:Hey, all. I'm thinking of creating a puppet where intranational travel would be much more difficult, which would lend itself to greater home field advantage (as visitors' supporters would be less likely to turn out & the visitors themselves would be more tired from their trips). In xkoranate, there's a way to turn home field advantage on or off, but there's no way (as far as I know to alter the level of home field advantage applied - whether to make it higher or lower, whether to make it league-wide (as I described) or specific to individual teams (such as one team having a particularly strong home field advantage) or specific to certain matchups (such as adjusting the advantage for derbies). Is there any way to do any of that, whether on xkoranate or another platform?
I've got to point out that several years ago, the author of xkoranate (Commerce Heights) found a serious bug in the home advantage code:
Commerce Heights wrote:…Now that I look at it, there’s actually a serious bug in xkoranate’s NSFS paradigm code: the variable homeAdvantage is a bool. The value “homeAdvantage” from the sport file is never used.
At one point, I think there was a clarification as to whether or not this affected every paradigm formula. But most of us have since just stopped using the home advantage option.

In my opinion, if traveling throughout the nation is difficult, why not have the teams play in one city at a time, and/or all the athletes for a given sport travel to a particular city for the season? (It's also an idea I've thought of for nations with wide TV distribution for niche sports; the teams play in a certain city and the games are distributed nationally/internationally as a means to encourage tourism to said city. Whoops, this is the scorinator discussion thread. :) )
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Qusmo
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Postby Qusmo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm

Darmen wrote:
Qusmo wrote:Query

You would need to edit the XML file itself. The two lines to edit would be (assuming you're talking about football-SQIS shown):
<double type="homeAdvantage">1.333333333333</double>
<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

This would apply a higher home advantage league wide. I'm fairly certain there's no way to do it for individual teams unless you scorinate each match individually.

95X wrote:
Qusmo wrote:Query
I've got to point out that several years ago, the author of xkoranate (Commerce Heights) found a serious bug in the home advantage code:
Commerce Heights wrote:…Now that I look at it, there’s actually a serious bug in xkoranate’s NSFS paradigm code: the variable homeAdvantage is a bool. The value “homeAdvantage” from the sport file is never used.
At one point, I think there was a clarification as to whether or not this affected every paradigm formula. But most of us have since just stopped using the home advantage option.

In my opinion, if traveling throughout the nation is difficult, why not have the teams play in one city at a time, and/or all the athletes for a given sport travel to a particular city for the season? (It's also an idea I've thought of for nations with wide TV distribution for niche sports; the teams play in a certain city and the games are distributed nationally/internationally as a means to encourage tourism to said city. Whoops, this is the scorinator discussion thread. :) )

Thank you both! I really appreciate it. With that said, do I understand correctly that there's absolutely no difference between, say, Darmen v. 95X in Darmen with the xkoranate home advantage on, Darmen v. 95X in 95X with the home advantage on, & Darmen v. 95X staged anywhere with the home advantage off?

Also, I must say: That does seem like an intriguing idea. I think it could definitely work for some sports & formats - sports like curling (which typically is hosted in arenas capable of staging multiple games at a time), skiing (which needs to have the same conditions to be fair), or tennis (which traditionally operates on a tournament-by-tournament basis) come to mind immediately; what connects them all, I think, is the fact that there is little to no connection between a competitor or team to a geographic location, like a city, to each of these sports. (Then again, this may be simply because these sports are all fairly niche.) You add some additional IC justifications on top of those which I'm really intrigued by, too.

That said, what I'm angling for is a different sort of enterprise: a highly fractionalized, regionalized football league structure, such that a hundred or more teams might have a (mathematical) shot at winning the league each season. I'm thinking about a PT tech basis & demanding terrain for travel between cities, which results in worse quality for travel, & thus stronger home advantages for teams. But if realistic results to boot can't be achieved in the scorinator, I might revert to MT or at least forget about the terrain impacting travel conditions.
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Free Republics
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Postby Free Republics » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:28 pm

95X wrote:
Qusmo wrote:Hey, all. I'm thinking of creating a puppet where intranational travel would be much more difficult, which would lend itself to greater home field advantage (as visitors' supporters would be less likely to turn out & the visitors themselves would be more tired from their trips). In xkoranate, there's a way to turn home field advantage on or off, but there's no way (as far as I know to alter the level of home field advantage applied - whether to make it higher or lower, whether to make it league-wide (as I described) or specific to individual teams (such as one team having a particularly strong home field advantage) or specific to certain matchups (such as adjusting the advantage for derbies). Is there any way to do any of that, whether on xkoranate or another platform?
I've got to point out that several years ago, the author of xkoranate (Commerce Heights) found a serious bug in the home advantage code:
Commerce Heights wrote:…Now that I look at it, there’s actually a serious bug in xkoranate’s NSFS paradigm code: the variable homeAdvantage is a bool. The value “homeAdvantage” from the sport file is never used.
At one point, I think there was a clarification as to whether or not this affected every paradigm formula. But most of us have since just stopped using the home advantage option.

In my opinion, if traveling throughout the nation is difficult, why not have the teams play in one city at a time, and/or all the athletes for a given sport travel to a particular city for the season? (It's also an idea I've thought of for nations with wide TV distribution for niche sports; the teams play in a certain city and the games are distributed nationally/internationally as a means to encourage tourism to said city. Whoops, this is the scorinator discussion thread. :) )


I don't see how that would be a reason to stop using home advantage since all that means is that home advantage would be smaller than it is supposed to be under NSFS. Upon reviewing the xkoranate source code, it appears that the bug only applies to the NSFS paradigm and does not apply to SQIS (which has a double called homeAdvValue that should control the amount of the home advantage). The line of xkoranate's SQIS code that uses the homeAdvantage value from the sport files is below:

Code: Select all
double homeAdvValue = (homeAdvantage ? opt.value("homeAdvantage").toDouble() : 1);


opt.value is called in other places in the paradigm code with the names of values from the sport files so this indicates that home advantage is used in SQIS. The 1 value is used if the homeAdvantage variable is false. In the SQIS code, pGoal is multiplied by homeAdvValue. In the NSFS code, the homeAdvantage value (which is 0 if homeAdvantage is off or 1 if it is on and the code that calls the generateScore function, which I have not looked at, correctly passes true as the value of homeAdvantage) is added to the denominator of pGoal.

Effectively, this means that NSFS home advantage is smaller than it is supposed to be and SQIS home advantage is exactly what it is supposed to be.

I decided to run tests to determine whether home advantage being on has an effect on the likelihood of upsets and surprisingly I discovered over 2 different runs that the main difference between having home advantage on or off under SQIS (the unmodified soccer SQIS) over the course of 3000 matches between a team at max points and a team at 0 is approximately 100 more wins for the stronger team and 100 fewer draws when home advantage is off. In other words, having home advantage on, under SQIS, is slightly favorable to higher-ranked teams which is the opposite of what I had thought. This means that you can't blame SQIS's 33.3% home advantage for upsets during NSWC qualifying. I also tested this with the WC68 formula and saw a slightly smaller net benefit to higher-ranked teams from turning home advantage on (around 30 wins).
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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:56 am

Is there a way for xkoranate to write all scores in a season (or even a matchday) to a file, instead of manually copying all scores for each matchday?
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Postby Free Republics » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:14 am

Ko-oren wrote:Is there a way for xkoranate to write all scores in a season (or even a matchday) to a file, instead of manually copying all scores for each matchday?


I tested the file button next to the dice one you use to scorinate. It writes a single matchday to a file (with Unix-style line breaks, so it looks like everything's on 1 line in Windows Notepad). If you try to write to the same file multiple times, it overwrites the previous file instead of just adding the new matchday to the end of the file so you'd need to save each matchday in a separate file. You can then merge the files into a single file.
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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:17 am

Free Republics wrote:
Ko-oren wrote:Is there a way for xkoranate to write all scores in a season (or even a matchday) to a file, instead of manually copying all scores for each matchday?


I tested the file button next to the dice one you use to scorinate. It writes a single matchday to a file (with Unix-style line breaks, so it looks like everything's on 1 line in Windows Notepad). If you try to write to the same file multiple times, it overwrites the previous file instead of just adding the new matchday to the end of the file so you'd need to save each matchday in a separate file. You can then merge the files into a single file.


Thanks! That'll do probably, I'll most likely throw some Powershell at it, so it should still be good.
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Postby Osarius » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 am

Ko-oren wrote:Is there a way for xkoranate to write all scores in a season (or even a matchday) to a file, instead of manually copying all scores for each matchday?

If you save the league after scorinating, the scores are all in the league xml file, with matchday indicators, iirc
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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:20 am

Osarius wrote:
Ko-oren wrote:Is there a way for xkoranate to write all scores in a season (or even a matchday) to a file, instead of manually copying all scores for each matchday?

If you save the league after scorinating, the scores are all in the league xml file, with matchday indicators, iirc

Ooh, that's even more promising. Thanks!
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Re: Results in xkoranate .xml files

Postby 95X » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:22 pm

Ko-oren wrote:
Osarius wrote:If you save the league after scorinating, the scores are all in the league xml file, with matchday indicators, iirc

Ooh, that's even more promising. Thanks!
I do this. Just note the first matchday is listed as "0", so on and so forth. I personally extract the results to a spreadsheet and add one to the MDs there, then post them to the newswire thread.
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Postby Koana Islands » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:19 pm

I've been searching for days but have finally given up and decided to ask for help. Can anybody send me the link to the website that allows you to scorinate soccer/football results? It looks like this:

Image

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Joshenia
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Postby Joshenia » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:27 pm

Koana Islands wrote:I've been searching for days but have finally given up and decided to ask for help. Can anybody send me the link to the website that allows you to scorinate soccer/football results? It looks like this:

(Image)

is it this 1https://www.leaguesimulator.eu/football/create

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Koana Islands
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Postby Koana Islands » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Magic! Thank you.

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