Scorinators (OOC Discussion)

[Blitzkeig]

Can the maker of Xkorinate please attempt to make it screen reader accessible?

[Tinhampton]

Can the maker of Xkorinate please attempt to make it screen reader accessible?

You'll be looking to get in touch with Commerce Heights there.

[NS Sports History]

To make it easier to find where to download scorinators and other hosting-related programs, I'm going to be creating a list of scorinators on the NS Sports History nation soon. I know where to find all of the scorinators I've created and the big 2 (xkoranate and NSFS). If there are other scorinators that you want to see on that list, please post links here or TG them to NS Sports History.

I've now created that list of scorinators. Anybody who has access to this account (currently myself, Equestrian States, Apox and Electrum) should be able to update/add to that list as needed.

[Somecoldwetislands]

Considering the variety of scorinators for association football that are currently available and that I don't quite have the ability to hammer this into a workable package and the fact that it doesn't really work with the way things are run this may seem slightly pointless. HOWEVER, I got a bit excited/bored whilst revising stats and I had an idea. I've tooled it about a bit and I've come up with a really basic concept for a scorinator that uses poisson distribution. I've worked it so that instead of rank points you input the average number of goals a team would expect to score/concede against an average opponent. One teams expected number of goals scored is then averaged with the other teams number of goals conceded, then using poisson distribution it comes up with the cumulative probability that a team will score whatever number of goals, a random number if then generated and that determines the score. So for example, suppose a team has a probability of 14% for scoring 0 goals, 41% for one goal or fewer, 70% for two goals or fewer and 92% for three goals or fewer (not in line with a distribution, but for arguments sake). Now if the number generated is 0.32 the team would score one goal, if it was 0.9 it would be 2, you get the picture.

I think this has the advantage for domestic leagues of making it quite easy to rank sides, you can see how they would all perform in an average game straight off! It also might do well for balancing the three rs, it's quite easy to see what probabilities you get in terms of score lines and whether they are acceptable or not.

On the downside, excel is a bit of a bugger to design anything user friendly in, it completely deviates from how ranks are calculated and it would make it more difficult to work RP bonuses, at least initially. Plus, as I said before I can't see a hell of a lot of demand for this.

Either way, might develop it for a domestic league I suppose. Any thoughts or opinions?

EDIT: YES WAIT! On the advantages side, through the threshold method you're essentially limited in terms of goals per game, there's almost a cap, this way there wouldn't be, if the difference between sides is great enough it could end up 25 nil or whatever, I mean, I just feel the fact that that could technically happen makes it more realistic.

EDIT2: Oh yeah, and it has the advantage of being a model that is generally deemed good enough to generate probabilities for actual football matches so that's a plus. It's kind of like a really dumb version of 538's model.

EDIT3: Never mind this would turn out results that are incredibly similar to SQIS.

[Tomure]

Dumb question but how does one see the results after hitting the scornation simulator button

[Mattijana]

Dumb question but how does one see the results after hitting the scornation simulator button

Absolutely no stupid questions here

They should come up right away if you’re doing it on Xkorinate. Be careful because the ‘randomise group’ and ‘scorinate results’ buttons have the same icon, but are on different pages, so if you’ve been pressing the groups one, you’ll just end up with different groups and no actual results.

I’m less familiar with other scorinators, but there aren’t many and I imagine they’d give the results after you’ve told the system to give you them as well.

[Koana Islands]

Does anyone have the formula on how to work out scoring chances in NSFS based on ratings, style modifiers and hone advantage and the like? I believe I found it but the search function on here is horrible.

If anyone could point me in the right direction that'd be great. Thanks.

[The thor]

I'm having a problem with The Racing Scorinator when downloading it as an excel file. Excel won't let me open it. It is saying that it found a problem with the content and needs to repair it after repairing it most of the formulas are gone any help on the problem would be great??

[Eastfield Lodge]

I'm having a problem with The Racing Scorinator when downloading it as an excel file. Excel won't let me open it. It is saying that it found a problem with the content and needs to repair it after repairing it most of the formulas are gone any help on the problem would be great??

Google Spreadsheets have a lot of formulas that Excel doesn't have, so you can't port them across. What you can do is get Google Drive for your computer, which allows you to download and use Google files, like the scorinator, offline.

[Audioslavia]

Hi The thor! Cheers for the message and the TG.

I've had a look at it and, every time I download it to an excel file, it stops working properly when I load it in excel.

EFL's advice might be the best for now. Either get Google Drive for your computer or click 'make a copy' so you can use it on your own google account and make changes without anyone else being able to see/have access.

If anyone else can get it working with excel, please let me know! I haven't actually used it with MS Excel, only Libreoffice Calc, but from what I can gather the same things go wrong with it.

[Alta Italia]

I've wanted to try putting together a domestic association football pyramid for a while now, and I just started to try to scorinate a league where teams are rated 0 to 100 with xkorinate. I read through Northern Sunrise Islands's guide to xkorinate, but I am still having troubles. I've done a test run with my top division, where teams' ratings range from 85 to 100. However, it seems like results are more based on luck than skill. Is there a way to increase or decrease how much or little random chance plays into results? Also, unrelated, but while I was reading that xkorinate guide, I saw that Northern Sunrise Islands gave a lecture called Red Devils No More about naming teams. It isn't as important to me as getting my league off the ground, so I wouldn't want to cause anyone any unnecessary troubles, but does happen to know where I might find that?

You can adjust the constants in the sport file for whichever formula you're using but generally you'd be better off using the full 0 to 100 scale for each division of your league. When you do a cup competition or a promotion/relegation playoff, you can rank the lowest division from 0 to 100, the second lowest from 101 to 200 and so on.

Hi, there. You probably have no recollection of this at all (seeing as it was nearly a full year ago now), but I wanted to thank you for helping me out here. Initially, I wasn't able to take this advice to heart (I haven't a clue as to why; it seems pretty straightforward now), but now I've found renewed interest in founding a league, I've read over my past posts in NS Sport (which aren't many), and I found this piece of advice to be incredibly helpful. So, thank you! As is, I still likely won't make a league for a while (due to OOC reasons) and even so likely not with this nation (due to IC reasons), but I want to thank you nonetheless - I am confident I will eventually make a league, and my ability to do that is attributable to you.

I think that would have been a great end point for this post; unfortunately, it's not. I still do have a few more questions. In the xkoranate file, under Association football, I see three different formulas to use: Footba11er, NSFS, & SQIS. What's the difference? All I see is that Footba11er doesn't support style modifiers. Speaking of, what's the difference between the additive (xkoranate) & multiplicative (NSFS3) modifiers? If all else fails, I was able to have great success with a limited test run with the NSFS formula paired with the NSFS3 modifiers, so I'd likely default to that otherwise. Thank you!

[Osarius]

Speaking of, what's the difference between the additive (xkoranate) & multiplicative (NSFS3) modifiers?

It's to do with how style modifiers are applied to the match result -- hinted at in the descriptive names -- but long story short, the latter option tends to result in higher-scoring matches and larger win margins.

[Eastfield Lodge]

You can adjust the constants in the sport file for whichever formula you're using but generally you'd be better off using the full 0 to 100 scale for each division of your league. When you do a cup competition or a promotion/relegation playoff, you can rank the lowest division from 0 to 100, the second lowest from 101 to 200 and so on.

I think that would have been a great end point for this post; unfortunately, it's not. I still do have a few more questions. In the xkoranate file, under Association football, I see three different formulas to use: Footba11er, NSFS, & SQIS. What's the difference? All I see is that Footba11er doesn't support style modifiers. Speaking of, what's the difference between the additive (xkoranate) & multiplicative (NSFS3) modifiers? If all else fails, I was able to have great success with a limited test run with the NSFS formula paired with the NSFS3 modifiers, so I'd likely default to that otherwise. Thank you!

I can't remember what the difference between NSFS and SQIS is off the top of my head, but nobody uses Footba11er for two reasons - no style modifiers, and it's way too random (too many upsets for people's liking).
In terms of modifiers, additive means that the modifiers don't change the goal difference in a match - if the formula comes out as a 2-1 win between two -5 style teams (i.e. ultra defensive), it might change it to 1-0, or maybe 3-2/4-3 (or higher) for ultra attacking (+5) teams. Multiplicative means that the modifiers can change the goal difference - i.e. change a 2-1 victory into 3-1 and so on. AFAIK, neither type of modifier changes the base result (although I'm probably wrong).

[Alta Italia]

Thanks, all. Can I ask which combos y'all use for your own domestic leagues, so that I can kind of get a sense of if there's a consensus one way or the other, or if it's just basically personal preference?

[Audioslavia]

For the World Cup, usually SQIS formula or NSFS formula is selected, along with xkoranate-style (additive) modifiers. I do my league the same way. 'Apply home advantage' should be checked unless the matches are being played at a neutral ground.

[Starblaydia]

Thanks, all. Can I ask which combos y'all use for your own domestic leagues, so that I can kind of get a sense of if there's a consensus one way or the other, or if it's just basically personal preference?

SQIS/NSFS Is totally down to personal preference.

I always find SQIS screws someone over comoletely or outlandishly overperforms the occasional low ranked team (For instance, Leicester City winning the English Premier League would have been a good example of my view of SQIS's potential upsets in action) and am an NSFS user.

Because, you know, internet, we can polarize our scorinator formula choices out of proportion, though, but they're both reasonable choices deep down.

[Equestrian States]

Thanks, all. Can I ask which combos y'all use for your own domestic leagues, so that I can kind of get a sense of if there's a consensus one way or the other, or if it's just basically personal preference?

Personally, I use the SQIS formula and NSFS (multiplicative) style mods for my domestic leagues, as in my experience that leads to more unpredictability and more variable scores, which makes for a much more interesting league to write about. Though, as Audio and Star have already said, it really comes down to personal preference, and for international tournaments like the World Cup, my preference is for the NSFS formula with xkoranate style mods.

[Bonesea]

Thanks, all. Can I ask which combos y'all use for your own domestic leagues, so that I can kind of get a sense of if there's a consensus one way or the other, or if it's just basically personal preference?

There is a bit of all sorts out there for domestic RP, depending on how you like your results served up - I use NSFS formula & multiplicative style mods with every team on +5 style for the Bonesligg; I get some mad scores (there's usually at least one 20-goal match in a season) but it suits my IC descriptions of a slightly different approach to tactics and rules at the local level.

[Alta Italia]

So, as I understand it, NSFS is to stability in the league standings as SQIS is to unpredictable tables, and NSFS3/multiplicative modifiers are to potential blowouts as xkoranate/additive modifiers are to tight matches (as a general rule of thumb, though certainly with exceptions, of course). Thus, my first impression is that less professionalized & more inconsistent lower leagues (and cups) might be a more natural fit for a SQIS formula, whereas higher leagues with traditional powerhouses & somewhat clearly delineated "tiers" of quality might be a more natural fit for a NSFS formula. I may end up doing that with my pyramid, if I can indeed get it to grow to a true pyramid system. Thank you all for the help!

[Alta Italia]

I've been playing around with xkoranate recently, but almost always on a very small scale. Thus, I've only just realized how tedious it might be to input each team's name & skill rating in a large league system, especially if there are multiple competitions for the same group of teams involved (e.g., various leagues, an association cup, & a league cup). Is there any way to copy teams' names & skill ratings from one competition and paste them in a different competition, perchance? Is there any way for me to copy data from outside xkoranate (such as a Google Sheet, for instance) and paste it into xkoranate? Thanks in advance!

[Drawkland]

I've been playing around with xkoranate recently, but almost always on a very small scale. Thus, I've only just realized how tedious it might be to input each team's name & skill rating in a large league system, especially if there are multiple competitions for the same group of teams involved (e.g., various leagues, an association cup, & a league cup). Is there any way to copy teams' names & skill ratings from one competition and paste them in a different competition, perchance? Is there any way for me to copy data from outside xkoranate (such as a Google Sheet, for instance) and paste it into xkoranate? Thanks in advance!

There is, in fact! All you need is a program like Notepad (or Word or something, saved in .txt format). It's really simple, all you need to do is enter text as such on a .txt file:

Participant;Team;Skill

Where word corresponds to which column that information will go to in xkoranate. Here's an example for 4 teams.

Sample AC;Nation A;0.75
Example Club;Nation B;0.5
I.E.;Nation C;0.25
Show And Tell;Nation D;0

If you don't use a column, like the Team column, when you usually enter teams, then you can just leave it empty, as long as you keep the semicolons consistent, like this.

Sample AC;;0.75
Example Club;;0.5
I.E.;;0.25
Show And Tell;;0

Once you have your file, save it, and then when you go to xkoranate on the Enter Participants screen, click the faint gray button that says "Import" that's next to the plus and minus symbols, then select the file. The only shortfall of this method is that it does not support style modifiers, i.e. if you're using an Association Football function with style modifiers, there is no way to add a fourth section on the line so that it enters style modifiers from the file. You'd have to do that by hand, unfortunately.

If this was confusing or you need further help just ask!

[Eastfield Lodge]

I've been playing around with xkoranate recently, but almost always on a very small scale. Thus, I've only just realized how tedious it might be to input each team's name & skill rating in a large league system, especially if there are multiple competitions for the same group of teams involved (e.g., various leagues, an association cup, & a league cup). Is there any way to copy teams' names & skill ratings from one competition and paste them in a different competition, perchance? Is there any way for me to copy data from outside xkoranate (such as a Google Sheet, for instance) and paste it into xkoranate? Thanks in advance!

There is, in fact! All you need is a program like Notepad (or Word or something, saved in .txt format). It's really simple, all you need to do is enter text as such on a .txt file:

Participant;Team;Skill

Where word corresponds to which column that information will go to in xkoranate. Here's an example for 4 teams.

Sample AC;Nation A;0.75
Example Club;Nation B;0.5
I.E.;Nation C;0.25
Show And Tell;Nation D;0

If you don't use a column, like the Team column, when you usually enter teams, then you can just leave it empty, as long as you keep the semicolons consistent, like this.

Sample AC;;0.75
Example Club;;0.5
I.E.;;0.25
Show And Tell;;0

Once you have your file, save it, and then when you go to xkoranate on the Enter Participants screen, click the faint gray button that says "Import" that's next to the plus and minus symbols, then select the file. The only shortfall of this method is that it does not support style modifiers, i.e. if you're using an Association Football function with style modifiers, there is no way to add a fourth section on the line so that it enters style modifiers from the file. You'd have to do that by hand, unfortunately.

If this was confusing or you need further help just ask!

One trick for style mods is to put them into middle Team column (if you're not using them), and then copying them across by hand into the style mods column once you've uploaded the file. Still tedious, but saves you switching back and forth between pages.

[Alta Italia]

That's fantastic! I think I've gotten things to work now (until I run into my inevitable next issue )! Thank you both so much!

[Amuaplye]

Every time I try to scorinate a triple jump (Men's and Women's) event on xkoranate, it crashes. Everything goes well, and the once I click the dice button to scorinate, it crashes.

[North Prarie]

How do I use xkoronate 0.3.3 on baseball? No problems, just don't know HOW.