Scorinators (OOC Discussion)

ISideWith UK · by **Eastfield Lodge** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:27 am

Kernansquillec wrote:Hello everyone I've got a little question/remarque about NSFS 3. When I got to create a cup I do the normal thing (enter the teams, ranks, etc.). Since I had an odd number of teams I entered some directly into round 2. Being as stupid as I am I scorinate and then I realise I had forgotten to modify the latter rounds of the tournament by putting them to one game only since I didn't want two legged ties. However once I'd modified that and I scorinated again NSFS went wild and repeatly repeated teams so from 26 odd teams when ever I scorinated I ended up with 26*10=260 odd teams and scores in the region of 22-3 every time.

it only happens when I scorinate then modify something then rescorinate without exiting the whole application. I managed to do it in the end by being extremly careful but I don't believe the problems accures in league mode. Is this normal or is it a bug? Thanks, Kernansquillec.

It's a bug. You'll just to do it all over again and check thoroughly that everything you want to happen is entered correctly before scorinating (and that scorination is only a proper one once, you can't not like the scores, press "Done" then resim, as that wrecks the thing up).

by **Kernansquillec** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:03 am

Eastfield Lodge wrote:
Kernansquillec wrote:*snip*

It's a bug. You'll just to do it all over again and check thoroughly that everything you want to happen is entered correctly before scorinating (and that scorination is only a proper one once, you can't not like the scores, press "Done" then resim, as that wrecks the thing up).

Thanks.

by **Vilita** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:56 pm

Qazox wrote:
Vilita wrote:I still have my own scorinator, worked fine in the past

NSsports could always use another scorinator, besides Xkoranate, NSFS, TBI's scorinator and the other one.

VSS Free is an incredibly simple and easy scorinator for one-off friendly matches or small competitions that don't require a big machine to scorinate them.

http://vilita.3wide.com/vssfree

Note it works based of KPB Points, not ranking number (So rank of 50 is better than rank of 1)

by **Shellopolise** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:24 pm

OK, so how does the scorinator work? What are the instructions? I know if I were you I would be annoyed by my ignorance as well but my knowledge about this is well...around 0%...so just help...please?

by **Miley World** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:50 pm

Shellopolise wrote:OK, so how does the scorinator work? What are the instructions? I know if I were you I would be annoyed by my ignorance as well but my knowledge about this is well...around 0%...so just help...please?

Well I haven't tried Vilita's scorinator. The one I use is xKoranate and you can dowloand it here: http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/xkoranate/ (use the 0.3.2 version) then you unzip it and install it.

If you use xKoranate you use the bonuses thing only if you scorinate events involving other people who are roleplaying and to be honest I dunno how that works. For your own domestic leagues or events involving only teams or athletes from your country you don't need to use the bonuses thing. You just select event and you click on the green + to add an event then you choose your sport from the list. For example if your sport is association football you select it and you can decide if you want an home team advantage or not and other things, then once you click on continue you add your teams under "participant" and you add nothing under "team", then you add their skill. A team wiff a high skill is pretty good and a team wiff a low skill isn't that good. And you also add their style (between -5 and +5) -5 this team focus on defense and +5 they focus on attacking. If you choose a sport like gymnastic for example, then it doesn't asks for a style, it's only for team sports. Then once you continue it asks you a few other things, then if you continue again it asks you you to form groups. The teams or athletes only competes against teams or athletes placed in the same group, so for association football you can make 1,2,3,4 ect groups but for individual sport its better to make only one group and to add a participant to the group you made, you click on the + at the bottom. I hope I explained well enough.

by **New West Guiana** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:01 am

I would love to use xKoranate, but it crashes on my computer all the time for reasons unknown to me.

by **Vilita** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:11 am

VSSFree won't crash a thing

by **Chrinthanium** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Okay, there's a lot to read through here, so I am just going to ask (and forgive me for being repetitive if I am), I am looking for a scorinator for American Football that DOESN'T try to force it into Association Football organization. In the NFL, the divisions are important, but there's a whole system for deciding who plays who outside of division games. NSFS3 forced you to do all your division games first, xkorinate I don't even understand. You only have round robin within a group or individual games. There's no way to scorinate a whole season that way unless they're all in the same group.

Is there any scorinator that allows you to organize the schedule the way you want it? Or at least organize it so that its more like the NFL, rather than Association Football?

by **Darmen** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:48 pm

Chrinthanium wrote:Okay, there's a lot to read through here, so I am just going to ask (and forgive me for being repetitive if I am), I am looking for a scorinator for American Football that DOESN'T try to force it into Association Football organization. In the NFL, the divisions are important, but there's a whole system for deciding who plays who outside of division games. NSFS3 forced you to do all your division games first, xkorinate I don't even understand. You only have round robin within a group or individual games. There's no way to scorinate a whole season that way unless they're all in the same group.

Is there any scorinator that allows you to organize the schedule the way you want it? Or at least organize it so that its more like the NFL, rather than Association Football?

There's none that I know of that'll do that.

by **Mytannion** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:53 pm

Chrinthanium wrote:Is there any scorinator that allows you to organize the schedule the way you want it? Or at least organize it so that its more like the NFL, rather than Association Football?

Well, there are many fixture generators out there - find one of them that match what you want and then scorinate individual fixtures following that schedule and then input the results in the xkoranate table generator to generate the tables for you.

by **Vilita** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:58 pm

Chrinthanium wrote:Okay, there's a lot to read through here, so I am just going to ask (and forgive me for being repetitive if I am), I am looking for a scorinator for American Football that DOESN'T try to force it into Association Football organization. In the NFL, the divisions are important, but there's a whole system for deciding who plays who outside of division games. NSFS3 forced you to do all your division games first, xkorinate I don't even understand. You only have round robin within a group or individual games. There's no way to scorinate a whole season that way unless they're all in the same group.

Is there any scorinator that allows you to organize the schedule the way you want it? Or at least organize it so that its more like the NFL, rather than Association Football?

Yes, just make a schedule in excel and simulate as such. Its not difficult if you are talking about a competition of Nations.

If you are talking about mass simulation of domestic leagues, that is a different story

by **Chrinthanium** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:20 am

Darmen wrote:There's none that I know of that'll do that.

That's a shame. Because American Football cannot work the way it is supposed to in the parameters set for Association Football.

Mytannion wrote:
Chrinthanium wrote:Is there any scorinator that allows you to organize the schedule the way you want it? Or at least organize it so that its more like the NFL, rather than Association Football?

Well, there are many fixture generators out there - find one of them that match what you want and then scorinate individual fixtures following that schedule and then input the results in the xkoranate table generator to generate the tables for you.

I shall try that. Footba11er is okay. NSFS 3 is almost perfect except it forces division games to be played first, then the rest, whereas I'd rather have it scattered throughout the season. xkoranate is confusing for American Football, but rocks for every other sport. I can imagine the domestic leagues I can do with that!

Vilita wrote:
Yes, just make a schedule in excel and simulate as such. Its not difficult if you are talking about a competition of Nations.

If you are talking about mass simulation of domestic leagues, that is a different story

Yes, mass simulation of domestic leagues is what I am working on here. Gosh, if I knew all this scripting stuff, I'd create an "NFL" scorinator. Meh, that scripting stuff seems daunting to say the least.

This is actually hilarious, when I think about it some more. Last night while partying, I met up with three really cool Aussies who were passing through North Carolina. They had never seen an NFL game before and, to my surprise, were actually impressed with some of what they saw. Then they asked me how it works, and I tried to explain how the NFL schedules games, and they looked at me like I was nuts.

A computer at the NFL randomizes, to a point, when each team plays, but they set up which teams play against which teams as follows:

Each team plays there division rivals 6 times(3 at home and 3 away)=6 games. One division will play a whole other division with a combination of home and away(it could be all away or all home or 2 away or 2 home or 1 home and 3 away or 3 home and 1 away)=4 games. Each division willl play one team from the remaining 2 divisions based upon where each team finished the previous season=2 games. Each NFC division will play an entire AFC division and vice versa in any combination of away or home games as was deemed when the schedule was put together = 4games. Total:16 regular season games per team. Each team plays 8 home and 8 away games each season. I would assume this would be difficult to script in a scorinator, but if someone is willing to help me, I think we could get it to work.

by **95X** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:36 am

I see scorinators as a simple tool, kinda like a hammer to a carpenter—the carpenter still has to select the nail and do the work.

When it comes to domestic leagues, I think something along the lines of "anyone outside of 95X care what happened during the 5th game of the regular NVL season 5 years ago?" So I just go with what whatever scorinator I'm using generates for the schedule and let it be.

Chrinthanium wrote:A computer at the NFL randomizes, to a point, when each team plays, but they set up which teams play against which teams as follows:

Each team plays there division rivals 6 times(3 at home and 3 away)=6 games. One division will play a whole other division with a combination of home and away(it could be all away or all home or 2 away or 2 home or 1 home and 3 away or 3 home and 1 away)=4 games. Each division willl play one team from the remaining 2 divisions based upon where each team finished the previous season=2 games. Each NFC division will play an entire AFC division and vice versa in any combination of away or home games as was deemed when the schedule was put together = 4games. Total:16 regular season games per team. Each team plays 8 home and 8 away games each season.

Sounds like you understand how it works. AFAIK, source code is available for the major scorinators and there's always opportunities to expand on them.

by **Chrinthanium** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:07 am

95X wrote:I see scorinators as a simple tool, kinda like a hammer to a carpenter—the carpenter still has to select the nail and do the work.

When it comes to domestic leagues, I think something along the lines of "anyone outside of 95X care what happened during the 5th game of the regular NVL season 5 years ago?" So I just go with what whatever scorinator I'm using generates for the schedule and let it be.
Chrinthanium wrote:A computer at the NFL randomizes, to a point, when each team plays, but they set up which teams play against which teams as follows:

Each team plays there division rivals 6 times(3 at home and 3 away)=6 games. One division will play a whole other division with a combination of home and away(it could be all away or all home or 2 away or 2 home or 1 home and 3 away or 3 home and 1 away)=4 games. Each division willl play one team from the remaining 2 divisions based upon where each team finished the previous season=2 games. Each NFC division will play an entire AFC division and vice versa in any combination of away or home games as was deemed when the schedule was put together = 4games. Total:16 regular season games per team. Each team plays 8 home and 8 away games each season.
Sounds like you understand how it works. AFAIK, source code is available for the major scorinators and there's always opportunities to expand on them.

Well, I understand it very well. I live for the NFL. Hehe. So, I know it inside and out. It's also why I am trying to see how all these scorinators work, and see if I can't figure out how to get one that works just like the NFL. Granted, scheduling is more complex than it needs to be, but it is what it is. Basically, a randomizing option for the schedule (as for as when each teams plays their opponents), but also one that does all the division vs division stuff. That's the basic idea.

by **Miley World** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:03 pm

I just scorinated a domestic season of american football and I kinda wanted to have a schedule like that, so I had to scorinate some games week by week. Here's my topic:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139410 (scroll down untill you see "smiler football league preview" and "smiler football league" (for the results). So when I choose my teams I decided to have 14 teams, but at this time I didn't know how much games they're going to play, and if I have divisions or not, ect.

Then later I was wondering if I should have divisions or not and how many, how many games my teams should play? How many whitin their divisions and how many against the other division(s)? Well I preffered to have two divisions (that I called conferences) cuz it's more realistic, I have the NFC and SFC (S for Smiler instead of American) with 7 teams in each conferences. Then I finally decided they would play a 2 round robin whitin divisions plus 4 games against the other divisions but there's 7 teams in the other division so how I do that? I've decided to do like in the NFL when they play some games against another division based on how they finish last season. So in my divisions I have 7 teams, I came up with that:

And because it was my first season I couldn't use last season's standings, so I made up some rankings before I started scorinating. When I created my teams in xKoranate I picked a skill number for them, so the team wiff the highest skill was ranked first.

My team rankings:

So according to these rankings, New Orleans plays against Dortmund, Rome, Green Monkeys and Nashville. And I made a schedule myself, luckily I didn't had any problem and it worked fine. My teams plays these 4 games according to the system I made and they have each two games at home and two on the road.

Heres the schedule I came up with:

So I scorinated a 2 round robin whitin divisions (or conference) plus these 4 games week by week making 7 groups of two and changing the teams in each group every week. And I didn't thought about using the tables in xKoranate, so I calculated the standings for these 4 games myself and added them to the 2 round robin whitin division standings, it worked pretty well and I didn't had any problems, but it was a little more work than if I didn't decided to play some games against the other division (or conference). If someone could make an NFL football scorinator that allows a certain number of games against other divisions or conference it would be cool, and it would be less work for me. And if you're planning to do an NFL football scorinator maybe you could include hockey too cuz next I'm planning to scorinate my hockey league and I'm planning to have 2 divisions of 6 teams with teams playing 8 times whitin division for 40 games and 6 times against the other division for 36 more games. For a total of 76 games.

by **Chrinthanium** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:39 pm

Well, that's a lot of football! Hehehe. I love it!

Now, for me, I have decided to do a simple 2 conference set up. This works well with all the scorinators, and I can do whatever from there. But, I am working on learning enough scripting to come up with something more akin to how American Football is done.

by **Michael VII** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:52 pm

xkoranate runs off of a scheduling algorithm which is usually the same, or at least I found that. So get all your teams together and then figure out the algorithm it runs off of and then label the teams accordingly.

So for example, I scorinate the Mineral Conference of NSCF4 and American College Football tournament. I made my schedule before I made the scorination functions, so all I did to get the schedule I wanted was scorinate the entire competition first to figure out how it works. (1v3, 2v5, 4v7, 6v8)

If you need team listed 1 to play team listed 2, 3 to play 4, 5 to play 6 and 7 to play 8, then just simply put A-H in the front of the teams so it lists alphabetically. This way if you label the second listed team with a C, and the third listed team with a B and the first listed team with an A (all at the front of course), then it will work out the way you want it. Okay, this is incredibly confusing I know, but I'm not a great explainer of things. If you find a way to write the NFL scheduling algorithm into a scorinator, please give me the scripting and I'll try alter it for my own evil purposes!

Who was it that found xkoranate confusing for American Football? I used to find it confusing but it isn't anymore, so why do you find it confusing? (I only use it now because NSCF made us! haha)

by **Michael VII** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:53 pm

Oh and people who know how to use speadsheet scorinators, can you please tell me how to do so? It never works for me!

haha

by **Chrinthanium** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:07 pm

I find it confusing for American Football. Simply because it forces division-only play. At least NSFS3 can get around that with a simple option. So, I've decided to use NSFS3 for American Football, and xkoranate for all the other sports I want to do because it'll work well for them.

As far as writing algorithms, once I learn how to do it, then I can figure out how to make the program do what I want it to do.

by **The Kytler Peninsulae** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:29 pm

Following the discussion over scorination on IRC and the WCDT, I thought this was a good thread to get going again.

Warning, this goes on a bit.

The unpredictability of NSFS has been talked about, and the trend towards high RP bonuses has been identified as a possible cause, because it requires the maximum ranking point total to be increased significantly. Because "cumulative" RP bonuses are presently in favour, the distortions are particularly undesirable early in a long WC qualifying stage; the RP bonus has not had time to kick in with full effect, but because NSFS 3.01 does not allow a matchday-by-matchday revision in maxpoints (unlike at least some of the NSFS 2 strand), the maxpoints are set with up to 18 matchdays of bonus. That, in turn, means RP bonus becomes even less significant, rank also becomes less significant, and the whims of Margaret become dominant.

Let's demonstrate with some numbers. As of right now, Sorthern Northland top the KPB standings with 56.38 points. I don't have any specific details of RP bonus numbers for WC57, but the WC58 host bid states that [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=150089]bonuses shall be sufficient enough that an unranked nation who posts an RP every day shall be able to be on even footing by the end of qualification with any top 10 nation who chooses not to RP at all. 10th place currently belongs to The Archregimancy, with 33.89 points, so we will make what is a modest assumption of the RP bonus (as that description goes) and assume a maximum of 2pts per MD in bonus, and an 18-MD campaign.

What does that mean? The maxpoints total is now (56.38+(2*18))=92.38. And even if Sorth posts a perfect RP and then plays an unranked, non-RPing n00b, his rank is only about 63% of the maxpoints - and his ranking effectively devalued to 10th, in terms of his chances of winning this game. Think that's no big deal? Consider the actual 10th-placed team, The Archregimancy, also RPing perfectly for MD1 and then playing a 0-KPB nation. Instead of a ranking of around 63% of the maxpoints, he's now under 40%, and he's performing like 31st-ranked Valladares.

(And how ineffectual is this RP bonus? Well, if Arch hadn't RPed at all pre-WC for whatever reason, instead of playing like 31st-ranked Valladares, he's playing like 33rd-ranked Virabia. And this is what we now call "the biggest RP bonuses ever". And we wonder why non-RPers can qualify by the luck of Margaret while regular RPers struggle horribly (with various levels of stoicism in response).)

Way back in WC44, when I RPed as Kura-Pelland and qualifying involved just ten eight-team groups, I co-hosted the tournament with C&M, using a spreadsheet which I still possess. Unfortunately, it was the last Jolt WC, and hence the records are lost to the sands of time (although NSWiki has the finals tallied), but that tournament seemed to work well. The best thing about devising the formula myself is that I was able to construct, from scratch, precise calculations of the probability of any given score. For instance, I've plugged in Sorth v n00b (Sorth at home) into that, and before RP bonus and style modifiers are considered, Sorth has a 94.47% chance of winning, a 0.07% chance of losing, and a 5.5% chance of being held to a draw (almost certainly 0-0). Arch would have an 83% chance of beating that same n00b, a 13.33% chance of a draw, and a 3.67% chance of having to write a hilarious RP about humility. Now, for my liking that's a bit too random in retrospect, but in tweaking the formulae, I can exactly gauge the effect of my adjustments.

(I've done the same process - albeit with a completely different formula - for a new lacrosse scorinator which is being used at the World Lacrosse Championships. This was inspired by similar comments in that RP community regarding the wildly unpredictable results being scorinated at the previous WLC.)

I sense that this needs to be open to community involvement, and given the undoubted benefits of the software we use for scorination now (particularly auto-tabulation), it's an ambition of mine that eventually we create a formula that winds up in a future release of xkoranate (the NSFS development path has ended for the forseeable future, with Veph's departure). In the meantime, the floor is open to all interested.

by **Aguazul** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:49 pm

The Kytler Peninsulae wrote:The unpredictability of NSFS has been talked about, and the trend towards high RP bonuses has been identified as a possible cause, because it requires the maximum ranking point total to be increased significantly. Because "cumulative" RP bonuses are presently in favour, the distortions are particularly undesirable early in a long WC qualifying stage; the RP bonus has not had time to kick in with full effect, but because NSFS 3.01 does not allow a matchday-by-matchday revision in maxpoints (unlike at least some of the NSFS 2 strand), the maxpoints are set with up to 18 matchdays of bonus. That, in turn, means RP bonus becomes even less significant, rank also becomes less significant, and the whims of Margaret become dominant.

(numbers)

I sense that this needs to be open to community involvement, and given the undoubted benefits of the software we use for scorination now (particularly auto-tabulation), it's an ambition of mine that eventually we create a formula that winds up in a future release of xkoranate (the NSFS development path has ended for the forseeable future, with Veph's departure). In the meantime, the floor is open to all interested.

Okay, thanks.

First off, a lot of sports RP stuff has in fact been saved from Jolt and reuploaded; it's a little tedious to zip/unzip everything, but I've gone ahead and uploaded the World Cup 44 scores separately in case people are interested.

I'm not going to get into the math of designing scorinators (right away,

) but wanted to make a few notes about xkoranate and NSFS3 in general. The most recent release of xkoranate is, in my opinion, just about as easy to use for round-robin tournaments as NSFS3 is; in addition, it features adjustable max-rank values. (NSFS3 uses only one input for ranks, so if you award RP bonus, about the only thing you can do there is add it on top of any preexisting ranks. xkoranate has separate [RP?] "bonus" addition as well as ranks, so I haven't looked very far into how these interact. But presumably one could eschew the "bonus" functionality and manually add in ranks as one went, adjusting the max points as one went, and this does not appear particularly demanding.) The automatic table generation is, I repeat, really just as easy to use as with NSFS3; in both cases, knockout competitions are a bit touchier, at least for me to get my head around.

So what I'll just note for now is that simply because cumulative bonuses, and the use of NSFS3 rather than xkoranate, are in favo(u

)r for some tournaments, this may have less to do with actual pressure from the crowds and more to do with a lack of originality on the hosts' part. (I point to myself as an example; I probably could have run World Cup 55 with xkoranate and some other bonus system than was eventually in use.) So for example, I'm guessing there isn't any real stigma against systems such as a RP bonus rewarding recent activity, rather than accumulation (which reduces maxpoints randomness) as has been successfully used in past tournaments. Perhaps people are afraid to try it because it's different, but some of those fears may be unwarranted. Certainly I'd be more than up for doing something different if I hosted other tournaments in the future and I'd encourage other hosts to do the same.

There are probably other schemes that could be used with NSFS3 (scaling a cumulative maximum in inverse proportion to preexisting rank? manually re-scaling "rank+bonus relative to maximum" every matchday? (laborious, but could be done)).

If people are still struggling with the xkoranate learning curve, let me know, I can try and help over telegrams (or maybe over here?)

by **Saugeais** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Getting away from the hubbub above, I'd like to ask a question that pertains to how I'll be scoring my domestics. I'm following the Scottish League system in matches, which, for those that don't know or follow, consists of 38 matches for the Premier League and 36 for the lower three leagues. Those lower three are easy, and I'm not going to mention them, as my problem lies with the Premier League. The first 33 are standard home-away-home style that can easily be submitted through any number of scorinators, but the final 5 match are tricky. The way the SPL has it is that the 12 teams are broken down into the groups of 6, and the final 5 matches are played within those groups. Now, I don't know if there is a scorinator out there that can accurately convey that format, but if there is one that could allow you to change formats during a season while retaining records and such, could you please let me know. Thank you.

by **Kagdazka and Pazhujebu** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:39 pm

I'm not presenting anything factually new to the discussion by re-linking my scorinator study, but I'll do so anyway.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=112024

The commonness of the cumulative, non-degrading RP bonus is something that I used in this study to compare different scorinators. The SQIS formula available in xkoranate is, in my opinion, proven to be an exponentially more effective scorinator in all contexts, and could easily be the solution to the "TOO MUCH RANDOMNESS" hullabaloo that everyone is pooping their pants about over in the WCDT, and would not require a substantial revision in the way we tabulate RP bonuses.

Aguazul wrote:I'm not going to get into the math of designing scorinators (right away, ) but wanted to make a few notes about xkoranate and NSFS3 in general. The most recent release of xkoranate is, in my opinion, just about as easy to use for round-robin tournaments as NSFS3 is; in addition, it features adjustable max-rank values. (NSFS3 uses only one input for ranks, so if you award RP bonus, about the only thing you can do there is add it on top of any preexisting ranks. xkoranate has separate [RP?] "bonus" addition as well as ranks, so I haven't looked very far into how these interact. But presumably one could eschew the "bonus" functionality and manually add in ranks as one went, adjusting the max points as one went, and this does not appear particularly demanding.)

It is not particularly demanding. That is precisely what ASMV and I did for the BoF, and it worked excellently.

Aguazul wrote:So what I'll just note for now is that simply because cumulative bonuses, and the use of NSFS3 rather than xkoranate, are in favo(u )r for some tournaments, this may have less to do with actual pressure from the crowds and more to do with a lack of originality on the hosts' part. (I point to myself as an example; I probably could have run World Cup 55 with xkoranate and some other bonus system than was eventually in use.) So for example, I'm guessing there isn't any real stigma against systems such as a RP bonus rewarding recent activity, rather than accumulation (which reduces maxpoints randomness) as has been successfully used in past tournaments. Perhaps people are afraid to try it because it's different, but some of those fears may be unwarranted. Certainly I'd be more than up for doing something different if I hosted other tournaments in the future and I'd encourage other hosts to do the same.

There's been an annoying trend lately whereby everybody and their grandma scrutinizes the living fuck out of every bid they can find. This, in my opinion, has led to potential hosts being timid in the development of their bids, particularly in scorinator selection.

NSFS 3 has become a de facto 'safe choice,' when in practice it is actually less safe when used incorrectly. The conspiracy theorist in me would like to assume that some nations have sentimental attachments to the scorinator since, in a certain way, it's all we have left of Vephrall, a treasured NS veteran. However, it's more likely that NSFS' sheer ease of use made it wildly popular before anyone noticed it could be really, REALLY, OUTRAGEOUSLY random when used incorrectly.

I find it heartening, however, that in BoFs 43 and 44, and in CoH 48, the SQIS formula of xkoranate was used, and to my knowledge absolutely nobody has aired complaints about the results the scorinator produces. I would love to see a World Cup hosting bid offer to use it, as I think it would be very effective.

by **Vilita** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:46 pm

Like KP have a completely proprietary (not publicly released) scorinator that only myself and one of my previous world cup co-hosts have seen in the flesh. Its pretty much bad ass all things considered, coded entirely in a 15 megabyte excel file and automatically outputs everything from match results to RP ratings tables in pre-formatted lists that make the task of scorinating virtually negligible to any host.

Thats the thing I hate the most about the pre-fab scorinators, is that it doesn't seem like there is anyone willing to propose using anything different., or even willing to try to make anything different to try. I'm almost tempted to put a bid in with it, but I have no intention of Scorinating 480 friendly matches so i guess I shouldn't bother trying :-)

by **Kagdazka and Pazhujebu** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:55 pm

Vilita wrote:I have a completely proprietary (not publicly released) scorinator that only myself and one of my previous world cup co-hosts have seen in the flesh. Its pretty much bad ass, coded entirely in a 15 megabyte excel file and automatically outputs everything from match results to RP ratings tables in pre-formatted lists that make the task of scorinating virtually negligible to any host.

Thats the thing I hate the most about the pre-fab scorinators, is that it doesn't seem like there is anyone willing to propose using anything different.

I wasn't around during the days when a host could simply write a new scorinator, say "I'm gonna use this," and then do it; but I wish I had been. I wrote my own scorinator as well, and while it's written in BASIC and a little data-entry heavy, it is infinitely more versatile than pre-fab scorinators are (I like that term); for instance, it can accomodate custom fixtures while still tracking tables (which, incidentally, would exactly solve the unrelated problem Saugeais has two posts up).

But as I say, if anyone ever suggests using a homemade scorinator to host a WCC tournament, they'll be drawn and quartered. People want brand dependability, apparently.

Scorinators (OOC Discussion)

Domestic League Scorination

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