World Baseball Classic 53 - Signups (Closed)

[South Newlandia]

I would like to ask some questions to the WBC bidders.

Banija,

1) I think the proposed rivalry games are an interesting idea, albeit unusual for the WBC. I was curious if you could explain your thinking behind them a little bit more in-depth; I think the fact that it might be fun is sufficient to try it out, but maybe you had some more in mind?

2) When applying tie-breakers; say, teams A, B, and C are tied, and one of the tiebreakers separates C, while A and B remain tied. Would the tie-breakers be re-applied from the top, or would they continue without being re-checked from the top? This is just a minor thing, but it famously came up during the WC Finals 87, and I think it would be better to have clarification on this before we need it.

StrayaRoos,

First of all, thank you for submitting a host bid; competition between bids is a good thing, I believe. However;

1) As outlined in the OP, the WBC is typically not a tournament frequently pursued by first-time hosts with no prior experience, especially not without an experienced co-host. Do you think you’re ready to host a WBC? Do you know what you’re getting into here? Why did you choose against bidding with a co-host?

2) Most host bids include some information about the nation the tournament would be held in. Yours does not. What is StryaRoos like? Is it a suitable place to host a WBC?

3) You have listed xkor as your scorinator of choice. Should we assume that you will use one of the two built-in formulas? If so, will you use the NSFS file or the xkoranate file?

4) You are planning to host the WBC in a double-round robin, which in some cases could mean just 6 group stage games instead of the usual 30. Why?

5) > they will play an modified McIntyre Final 8 System with 16 teams
what is this, and why did you choose to include it?

6) > 10 of 6 Top team progresses to the 2nd Group Round
Could you please explain this in further detail?

7) Will the knockouts be single games or series or games?

8) You mention the StrayaRoos Barrier Islands in your bid. Should this considered a joint bid between two nations? If so, you should include a confirmation that they are your puppet, especially considering they are not even signed up for the WBC.

9) Usually, bids contain some information about prior involvement by the prospective host(s). Yours does not have that. Have you done anything of this sort in the past, or anything else that might help us to trust you with one of the biggest tournaments of NS Sports?

10) You have listed tiebreakers. Should we assume those are applied from the top?

11) If so, having RP Bonus as the first tiebreaker is extremely unusual, because there is no proper in-character explanation for ties broken like this. (and for a ton of other reasons)

12) In general, why did you choose the tiebreakers you did, and why in that order?

13) The 5th inns Countback is not something usually seen in baseball host bids. Could you explain what that is and why you included it?

14) When applying tie-breakers; say, teams A, B, and C are tied, and one of the tiebreakers separates C, while A and B remain tied. Would the tie-breakers be re-applied from the top, or would they continue without being re-checked from the top? This is just a minor thing, but it famously came up during the WC Finals 87, and I think it would be better to have clarification on this before we need it.

15) Your listed cutoff times would leave us with windows considerably under 24 hours between some matchdays. Why did you choose to do it like that, considering this may heavily harm the chance to roleplay the event for some users?

[Liventia]

The rivalry games are a deal-breaker for me. I cannot support the Banija bid.

The StrayaRoos "bid" is, to put it mildly, a joke.

[Sarzonia]

The rivalry games are a deal-breaker for me. I cannot support the Banija bid.

Why are the rivalry games a deal-breaker for you?

[World Baseball Classic]

The bid of StrayaRoos, being technically legal, has been added to the OP. The host bidding deadline has now passed, and no new bids will be accepted; however, to give a little time for questions and answers, I have chosen to delay the opening of the host voting by about a day.

[Hapilopper]

The rivalry games are an interesting idea in concept, but one of the things that scares me out of running NSCF is manually scheduling the non-conference games. I don't want to do that. I don't want to manually schedule a series with someone in the middle of a competition. In a competition I'd assume the schedule was already set in stone. And if I don't opt into the system, am I penalized for it?

[Liventia]

The rivalry games are a deal-breaker for me. I cannot support the Banija bid.

Why are the rivalry games a deal-breaker for you?

They unbalance an inherently fair schedule and are game-able. If they do not count for the standings (i.e. act as exhibition games), I would have no problem. But not as currently presented.

[Chromatika]

I agree with Liventia. Rivalry games for the sake of RP after the group stage that don't count toward seeding makes sense; to have something that users decide count toward the standings and seedings (which are very important) be gameable is asking for trouble.

[Sarzonia]

Fair enough, for reasons Chromatika outlined above.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

For one, it's a tempting idea to be able to schedule an additional game against both Ko-oren and Banija. And the premise itself is quite intriguing for sure. So I'm not against it.

That said, I have a big question for you - What would be your ways to get around said 'unfairness' problem? This isn't something you can just ignore, more or less because the chances of no. 1 sweeping the UR isn't 99% guaranteed like on IBC or WCoH (formula dependent for latter). It is possible people would not be a fan of it because of how their qualification chances are affected thanks to a Qzvarkian-Qaz equivalent overperforming or casually sweeping what's a lot stronger team.

Of course, people both here and on Discord have mentioned the NSCF as a comparable. But the problem with comparing this bid to that is that it has the OSPI, which does help mitigate some of the problems for those who schedule tougher opponents. It also has home/away factor factored in as well. It is also used for playoff seedings. Do you plan to propose something like that when putting together playoff seedings?

Also, it may be a better idea for MD1 start to be pushed back by a bit, so that people can schedule their pair of rivalry games, under said situation. You need at least a week, preferably a week and a half, for the rush.

[StrayaRoos]

1) As outlined in the OP, the WBC is typically not a tournament frequently pursued by first-time hosts with no prior experience, especially not without an experienced co-host. Do you think you’re ready to host a WBC? Do you know what you’re getting into here? Why did you choose against bidding with a co-host? A:I Said no to co-hosting as i couldn't find some one who wanted to so i decided just to take an leap of faith

2) Most host bids include some information about the nation the tournament would be held in. Yours does not. What is StryaRoos like? Is it a suitable place to host a WBC? refer to my nation page and Policies

3) You have listed xkor as your scorinator of choice. Should we assume that you will use one of the two built-in formulas? If so, will you use the NSFS file or the xkoranate file? Xkoranate

4) You are planning to host the WBC in a double-round robin, which in some cases could mean just 6 group stage games instead of the usual 30. Why? because it will hopefully take shorter

5) > they will play an modified McIntyre Final 8 System with 16 teams
what is this, and why did you choose to include it? the format Used in Australian leagues such as the AFL & NRL,because it makes teams meet other teams closer to their skill level rather than having 1 play 16 and it makes lower seeds winning more probable

6) > 10 of 6 Top team progresses to the 2nd Group Round
Could you please explain this in further detail? So the top team in each group progresses into a group of 5 with other nations where they will play each other once and then the top 2 in each progress to the semis

7) Will the knockouts be single games or series or games? single

You mention the StrayaRoos Barrier Islands in your bid. Should this considered a joint bid between two nations? If so, you should include a confirmation that they are your puppet, especially considering they are not even signed up for the WBC. no and I did

9) Usually, bids contain some information about prior involvement by the prospective host(s). Yours does not have that. Have you done anything of this sort in the past, or anything else that might help us to trust you with one of the biggest tournaments of NS Sports? I've Done stuff On other things on Xkor and Can successfully run those so i think it might be fine and i've bid 2 times for the WorldVision Song Contest

10) You have listed tiebreakers. Should we assume those are applied from the top? yup

11) If so, having RP Bonus as the first tiebreaker is extremely unusual, because there is no proper in-character explanation for ties broken like this. (and for a ton of other reasons) IDK

12) In general, why did you choose the tiebreakers you did, and why in that order? It made sense to me at the start

13) The 5th inns Countback is not something usually seen in baseball host bids. Could you explain what that is and why you included it? yeah made an mistake

14) When applying tie-breakers; say, teams A, B, and C are tied, and one of the tiebreakers separates C, while A and B remain tied. Would the tie-breakers be re-applied from the top, or would they continue without being re-checked from the top? This is just a minor thing, but it famously came up during the WC Finals 87, and I think it would be better to have clarification on this before we need it. alphabetical order if it does not effect qualifications then I'll look at their Away Records

15) Your listed cutoff times would leave us with windows considerably under 24 hours between some matchdays. Why did you choose to do it like that, considering this may heavily harm the chance to roleplay the event for some users? no it will be like this Tuesday-Thursday-Sunday or similar

[The Sherpa Empire]

Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was going to be so lively. Those are some funky bids. Not sure how to feel about the rivalry games.

[Liventia]

StrayaRoos, to put it bluntly, please withdraw your bid and redirect your energies into actually RPing around the forum and learning stuff instead of diving headfirst into a doomed-to-failure bid to host a major tournament. You have literally almost never RPed any event you've entered and you want us to trust you with grading our RPs.

[Cassadaigua]

StrayaRoos, while I do agree with Liventia's post above, I want to point a couple responses of yours that would be deal-breakers even if you were an experienced host:

"You are planning to host the WBC in a double-round robin, which in some cases could mean just 6 group stage games instead of the usual 30. Why? because it will hopefully take shorter"

-- This community does not believe "shorter is better".

"the format Used in Australian leagues such as the AFL & NRL,because it makes teams meet other teams closer to their skill level rather than having 1 play 16 and it makes lower seeds winning more probable "

-- This is a horrible idea for the World Baseball Classic. Or any other tournament here. Never bid with this again if you ever want to win a host bid vote.

"If so, having RP Bonus as the first tiebreaker is extremely unusual, because there is no proper in-character explanation for ties broken like this. (and for a ton of other reasons) IDK "

-- You're bidding. You're supposed to know the ins and outs of your bid, entirely.

Additionally, Why did you choose against bidding with a co-host? A:I Said no to co-hosting as i couldn't find some one who wanted to so i decided just to take an leap of faith.

-- Experienced hosts will be very willing to help out potential first time hosts, but those potential first time hosts have typically roleplayed on the forum for a while, and showed themselves that they could be a good host if they got good guidance.

[Banija]

I would like to ask some questions to the WBC bidders.

Banija,

1) I think the proposed rivalry games are an interesting idea, albeit unusual for the WBC. I was curious if you could explain your thinking behind them a little bit more in-depth; I think the fact that it might be fun is sufficient to try it out, but maybe you had some more in mind?

2) When applying tie-breakers; say, teams A, B, and C are tied, and one of the tiebreakers separates C, while A and B remain tied. Would the tie-breakers be re-applied from the top, or would they continue without being re-checked from the top? This is just a minor thing, but it famously came up during the WC Finals 87, and I think it would be better to have clarification on this before we need it.

So since most of the criticism I have is from the rivalry game, but I'll talk about the second thing here first for sake of simplicity.

Tie-Breakers
As for Tiebreakers, I would apply them from the top, and see first if there is a tiebreaker that can eliminate all 3. If there are no tiebreakers that create a clear #1, then go down to a tiebreaker that eliminates 1, and then start again from the top and use the tiebreakers again, this time between the two remaining teams.

Rivalry Games
So to expand on my thinking, it is the same thinking that I had before when I trotted this out in previous bids (failed for the Copa Rushmori, successful for IBS XIII). I do think the similarity of group stages grows a little stale on NSS sometimes. Round-robin, sometimes against random opponents, and you can go a few tournaments getting matchups against the same nation, and then boom, you easily miss them for a few tourneys in a row.

And then, of course, you do not have necessarily the greatest opportunity to play the most interesting opponents for your nation that often, and can go a long time without playing them. Which is where I came up with the concept(which, yes, obviously big kudos to NSCF and college sports in general for introducing me to the idea). I do think that those games, especially at the end, would make sometimes bland group stages more interesting for people from a RP perspective. And (to address one criticism), I do think that stakes are what give these games meaning. Key component of any rivalry, of course, is the fact that there is something to play for- which is why I would not want to do it as an exhibition.

However, to address another criticism(brought by Quebec and others), I do think there are ways to mitigate the whole 'purposely scheduling a shitty team for your advantage' thing that we want to avoid. I think there can be two things that can be implemented that will soothe people's minds.

#1- The easiest idea to implement, of course, would be host restrictions of who people can schedule. For one, we could ban people from scheduling their own puppets, for reasons obvious(you don't throw in a No rank no RP puppet at the end of signups to just go rankless and rosterless to give me a pair of easy dubs). This would be in addition to Pot restrictions that could be implemented. We know we'll have 6 pots. We could require that teams only schedule other teams within certain pots (Pots 1 & 2 paired together, so teams from those 2 pots can only schedule teams from those two pots. Pots 3 & 4 paired together in a similar way, Pots 5 & 6 paired together in a similar way). That could help address strength of schedule concerns.

What are thoughts on this?

[Liventia]

Without casting any doubt on your ability to host, which I am aware of first-hand, I would withdraw from the WBC before participating in this format.

[Sarzonia]

Personally, I have no problem with the idea of rivalry games. It might give people an opportunity to face opponents they otherwise might not otherwise get an opportunity to in matches that count.

It certainly wouldn't rise to the level of being a deal-breaker for me, but I can respect that it is one for LE and perhaps others.

As far as StrayaRoos is concerned, I would have to agree with Cassadaigua about RPing first. If you're an active RPer, you get a chance to observe a few different hosts and their respective ways of operating a tournament. Each of us have different styles and ways of addressing the myriad of challenges that every host has faced. Someone with little to no experience of how NS Sports works is not likely going to be successful as a host even if they latch onto an experienced co-host who's seen it all.

After you've participated in a few tournaments, I'd also suggest starting small. Perhaps an invitational tournament with a small number of teams or a small tournament in [name your sport] so you can 1) learn how scorination works, 2) learn how organizing a tournament works, and 3) learn how to evaluate RPs and how to handle problems as they occur. Alternatively, you can help out an experienced host with a small tournament by scorinating a group or two and following their lead.

I can think of one or two people in particular who started out relatively small and built up the community's confidence by the prowess they showed. In both cases, they were active participants beforehand. Seeing how a community works with all its customs and mores is important if you want to be a successful part of it.

[Tikariot]

#1- The easiest idea to implement, of course, would be host restrictions of who people can schedule. For one, we could ban people from scheduling their own puppets, for reasons obvious(you don't throw in a No rank no RP puppet at the end of signups to just go rankless and rosterless to give me a pair of easy dubs). This would be in addition to Pot restrictions that could be implemented. We know we'll have 6 pots. We could require that teams only schedule other teams within certain pots (Pots 1 & 2 paired together, so teams from those 2 pots can only schedule teams from those two pots. Pots 3 & 4 paired together in a similar way, Pots 5 & 6 paired together in a similar way). That could help address strength of schedule concerns.

What are thoughts on this?

If this was to be implemented, then it would lead to a race to the bottom, with everybody trying to schedule games with the perceived weakest links in order to give a nation the highest probability of success. Given the far wider net spread by a competition such as the WBC compared to NSCF or IBS, I would still see this as a make-or-(more likely)break point for a bid.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Rivalry games are exciting. Precisely because they are semi-random. Getting drawn against your bogey team, realizing that the only way you can meet your rival is if you both get to the final, going five tournaments without meeting then finally coming up against each other in a crunch elimination game, these are the things that seeded draws create as an extra bit of excitement. Just auto-scheduling a rivalry match completely defeats that. It's like using Cheat Mode. And if there's an opponent you really are desperate to play every time, just schedule friendlies. We used to have a non-soccer friendly thread for all other sports, just use that. I offer a standing invitation to scorinate any rivalry series in any sport for anyone. Just not part of a ranked competition.

There's also a weird perverse incentive at play, in that the most desirable opponent would be someone you could be confident wouldn't RP much.

[Chromatika]

I concur with QoD above. Rivalry games may be a fun concept but I doubt there is a way to implement it fairly in a system where your record and sometimes even your Run Differential can determine so much in terms of seeding and matchups.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Not to pile on, but since IBS XIII was invoked as a tournament that did use rivalry games, let's look at that.

viewtopic.php?p=38346602#p38346602

2/3rds of participants didn't schedule their rivalry games! This enormously weights things towards the host's personal discretion in scheduling them. (FWIW I trust Banija entirely as host, it's the principle I object to.)

And the rivalry game series only produced about 5 total RPs (2 of them from one user). This tournament doesn't provide good evidence that the rivalry games will be a positive addition.

[Banija]

Ok amigos. I'm not going to bury my head in the sand.

Obviously I support the concept and stand by it. But it is exceedingly clear that, in its current form, it simply does not have the support of the community. Which means that it would need to be further worked to address some of these concerns in a more meaningful way, if it is to be brought back at all.

So, in response to the concerns raised by the community, I'm going to eliminate the rivalry series completely from my WBC 53 bid. I'm going to edit my post to do so. The bid otherwise remains, and everything else will stay the same in the bid (except obviously record against common opponents would no longer need to be a tiebreaker).

[StrayaRoos]

StrayaRoos, to put it bluntly, please withdraw your bid and redirect your energies into actually RPing around the forum and learning stuff instead of diving headfirst into a doomed-to-failure bid to host a major tournament. You have literally almost never RPed any event you've entered and you want us to trust you with grading our RPs.

Ok bid withdrawn

[Banija]

Banija WBC 53 Bid

The Olympic Committee of Banija, building on popularity built with our recent success in support, recent success of the WBBL, and the success that was IBS XIII, is officially submitting its bid to the international baseball community to host the 53rd World Baseball Classic.

Banijan National Information

The Kingdom of Banija is a country that classifies itself as a semi-constitutional monarchy. A nation that is proudly a member of Atlantian Oceania, it is led by the Kabaka(which translates to King), and the current monarch is Kabaka Mwanga. The Kabaka, alongside with the Waziri(translates to Foreign Minister), whom he picks and dismisses solely at his pleasure, is the Head of State and responsible for the country's foreign affairs. Upon reaching age 25, the Isebantu(Crown Prince), becomes the Waziri by constitutional right. The current Isebantu is Isebantu Mutungi. The full list of members of the Royal Family can be found here.

Kabaka Mwanga ascended into power after the assassination of his father, Kabaka Albert III during World Cup 82 Qualifying. This is, of course, a government with an elected element. The elected unicameral legislature is the Lukiiko(Parliament), and the Lukiiko is responsible for governance of domestic affairs. The Katikkiro(Prime Minister) is elected by the Lukiiko. Currently, there is an elected right-wing coalition that holds a majority in the Lukiiko and rules the country. The present Katikkiro Is Kobe Aziri.

Due to the massive influence of Puritan Mormonism in this nation, they are relatively socially conservative. Abortion in this country is outlawed unless the mother's life is in danger, and polygamy for males is legal. The church's Universal Call to Motherhood, which teaches that the destiny of each and every woman is to give birth to children and raise faithful Puritan Mormons, has heavily shaped the nation's view on the role of women in society, forming the basis for Banija's prior sports gender segregation laws in the first place. Consumption of alcohol and the recreational use of marijuana in Banija is legal. Due to Mormon tradition, however, the purchase/sale of coffee products is illegal within Banija- however, the consumption is not. Fans and teams an ddelegations are allowed to bring in their own coffee products as long as they are declared at customs, where it is then taxed per pound. Any attempt or effort to sell the product, however, can and will result in arrest.

Most people in the country speak both Olusanke, the local dialect, and English. There is a smattering of Korean spoken within the country, thanks to Banija's Quebecois roots. Banija's currency is the shilling. The exchange rate to the NationStates Dollar is 200 shillings to 1 NSD. Conversion kiosks will be available at all hotels and at airports to exchange your money, as well as any banks. However, using the NSDs directly to purchase items is only guaranteed at stadiums and hotels- vendors outside of stadiums or hotels are not required to accept NationStates Dollars. Fans are also advised that street vendors will only take cash, according to Banijan law- as an issue of security to prevent against credit card theft.

Of course, Banija is on its way to developed country status. This is thanks to a recent discovery of large oil deposits in Hangaza, there is movement within the country on building better infrastructure. There has been heavy investment in Istria's public transportation system by the Regional Transit Corporation in the leadup to the games, with better roads and systems being built. One of Banija's unique public transit systems within cities is via the boda boda. The climate of Banija has a lot of natural rainforest and jungle, which means that there is no winter, only wet season and dry season. Temperatures generally range at their coldest around 60 degrees Fahrenheit, and at their hottest around 110 degrees Fahrenheit. For the duration of the Games, average high temperatures will range from 60 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit.

Banijans have a tendency of being relaxed about time. While, of course, things like flights and matches will run on time, this is something that is observed generally, especially at restaurants. It is considered standard to arrive about 15-20 minutes late for a restaurant reservation, which is something Banijan authorities would like to make note of for travelling fans and visitors to the country for this tournament. This is very true for hangouts with Banijans, dates, weddings, etc... Within the country.

In terms of food, Banijans are very heavy meat eaters, and you'll find plenty of chicken, goat meat, beef, pork, and turkey options on your localized menus. In terms of non-meats, popular staple foods are jollof, matoke, Chapati, a rolex, and samosas. Strictly vegan restaurants within the country, outside of Istria and Busukuma, are almost non-existent, though of course you'll find non-meat options everywhere

Bid-Specific Information

The Olympic Committee is aiming to bring baseball's biggest tournament to the country for the first time. While there is history of baseball tournaments being successfully hosted here, including the men's baseball and women's softball competitions of the XIV Summer Olympiad, as well as IBS XIII, the World Baseball Classic has yet to come to Banija's shores. The Olympic Committee views this as their greatest opportunity to bring great baseball competition to the country.

Format

There will be X groups of six, per tradition for this tournament. There will be a 30 game group stage. The format is relatively straightforward.

The 30 games, of course, will be against the teams in your group. You will play each team in your group in two sets of three game series. So Matchdays 1-3 will be against the same opponent at the same venue, then switch opponents for another 3 game series on Matchdays 4-6, and so on. Look at the group stage formats during WBCs 51 and 52 if you have questions. These series, of course, are played home & away.

42 teams: 7 groups of 6. Top 2 in each group, plus top 2 3rd place teams to the Round of 16.

48 teams: 8 groups of 6. Top 2 in each group to the Round of 16.

54 teams: 9 groups of 6. Top 3 in each group, plus top 5 fourth place teams, to the Round of 32.

60 teams: 10 groups of six. Top 3 in each group, plus top 2 fourth place teams, to the Round of 32.

The knockout stages shall be in best of 5 series format, while the championship series will be in a Best of 7 series format. For the pre-Final KO stage rounds, 2 games shall be scorinated on each day, with Game 5s(if necessary), scorinated by themselves. All knockout stage matches shall be held in Banija.

For the Championship series, Games 1 and 2 shall be scorinated together, games 3 and 4 shall be scorinated together, while Games 5, 6, and 7(all if necessary) shall be scorinated on their own days.

Tiebreakers
1) H-2-H Wins
2) H-2-H Run Differential
3) Overall Run Differential
4) Overall Runs For
5) Coin Toss

(Since there are no style mods in xkor for baseball, I have no problem using runs for as a tiebreaker since it wouldn't advantage anyone with a specific style mod)

Hosting Experience

World Bowl XXXIV
World Bowl XXXVII
25th International Basketball Championships(co-hosted w/ Filindostan)
28th World Lacrosse Championships
29th World Lacrosse Championships(co-hosted with Razenthuria)
67th Baptism of Fire(co-hosted w/ Qasden)
76th Cup of Harmony(co-hosted w/ Xanneria)
Conferences in multiple seasons of both the NSCAA and the NSCF
Multiple seasons of the IDLO
World Cup 83(co-hosted with Equestria)
World Cup 81(co-hosted w/ the Federation of Free Republics)
AOCAF LVIII(co-hosted with Baker Park)
XIV Summer Olympiad(co-hosted with Liventia)
AOCAF LXII

Scorinating Method

I will be using version 0.3.3.of xkoranate, with the Adjusted NSFS3 formula. A roster shall be eligible for one full day's RP bonus. RP bonus shall be cumulative across the duration of the tournament.

Other OOC Information

Should be North American morning cutoffs, but I reserve the right to switch the schedule to night, with plenty of advance notice, if my schedule demands do not allow me to score in the mornings.

I'm ready for any and all questions.

[Banija]

In the interest of transparency, the original bid is still back there, but what is posted immediately above is my updated bid, and is the bid that should be voted on.

[World Baseball Classic]

Greetings, World Baseball Classic Council! It's time to vote.

There is one bid to become World Baseball Classic 53 hosts, from Banija.

Members of the Council (linked in signature) can vote to either:

ACCEPT the bid
to RE-OPEN bids
or to formally ABSTAIN.

Please send your vote to this nation, World Baseball Classic. Host voting will be open until 8 pm UTC, 29th of November.