Rugby Union World Cup 29 - (Signups Closed/OOC Discussion)

[Hutanjia]

Scoring for the Quarterfinals will be delayed one day, until Thursday 19 Nov @ 2130 US ET ( - 5 UTC) due to a very full RL schedule for me. Thanks for your participation and patience.

[Quintessence of Dust]

I do not understand the QF draw. A standard bracket would be 1v8, 2v7, etc. Instead we have 1v2 3v7, 4v8, 5v6. If the intention is to continue to avoid group-stage repeats then re-seeding is not normally done in this way, this deep in the bracket.

...in fact I've only just realized this was true of the Round of 16 draw, with 1 being drawn to play 9 instead of 16, 2v10, etc, instead of 1v16, 2v15, etc.

Your bid doesn't specifically state anything on the subject of seeding but this isn't how a draw would normally be done. I have to admit I didn't notice until now as the garish font color makes it so hard to read.

As the Ro16 has already happened without complaint I guess it's too late now, but I am inclined to ask you to re-draw the QF according to a properly seeded bracket.

[Quintessence of Dust]

This isn't a reasonable way to handle this. I'm not sure why an affected party should be excluded from the explanation or why the need for any acrimony or drama here.

[Northwest Kalactin]

So, Hutanjia asked me to delete my post from earlier so QoDs post could be fixed. QoD told me that his post has now been fixed so I can do mine now.

I don’t really understand the seeding of the Group Stage. Teams were just drawn based on their position in the pot, without the list being randomized or anything like that. This caused for some of the unranked teams in Group 1 and 2 to have a loaded draw, because some of them had 2 top 10 teams in their group. Also, in the telegram Hutanjia told me that I was only saying this because I was disadvantaged by it, but I was in the weakest group, so I actually had the biggest advantage of all because of it.

[Hutanjia]

I laid out my case in Discord. There has not been KO seedings described in any host bid in the last few RUWCs, nor has there been consistency in at least the last 7 RUWCs before this one in regards to how KO stage fixtures were put together. RUWC 28 back to RUWC 25 had a different seeding system than the previous host. RUWC 24 had an additional Plate KO stage just for 3rd place groups finishers, while it was consistent with RUWC 25 in doing a 1 v 16, 2 v 15 for the top seeding for Round of 16. RUWC 22 and 23 had a Round of 24 before their Round of 16, so yes, this was consistent with each other.

To go after me for mine and not see a systemic issue overall in expectations of standardization is ridiculous. To not have shown outrage until now is also ridiculous, but maybe based on some past experiences, I should have expected this.






EDIT: I continued to edit because I continued to dig back to find discrepancies in KOs consistency until I hit RUWC 22 and 23 which had both followed the same format.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Your bid promised to use the format employed by Ko-oren in WC27. Your tournament has not used that format.

But the issue is no longer seeding. It is communication. If a player raises a concern about their draw, a reasonable expectation is a host address that concern rather than proceeding with the scorination while throwing up a wall of OTT belligerence.

An important part of hosting, much more important than any specific detail relating to scorination or seeding, is learning how to communicate with people in your tournament. Every host from the most experienced down has encountered a problem or made a mistake at some point, because we're human and this is just a game. But good hosts communicate with the players over those issues. The way you have handled this situation has not really sparkled with maturity, and I'd venture to suggest you have a good deal to learn about the expectations placed on hosts in this community. Normally the community would play a role in managing these expectations, but maybe we need a few more vice-presidents before we can think about such issues.

Either way, I asked you to redraw the bracket properly, and three days later I guess this is as close as I'll get to a response, so I suggest we draw a line under it and move on. I just hope we don't need wait another 13 months for another World Cup.

[Hutanjia]

We will have to put this to bed, whether there is closure for either of us or not, as the drama has already done enough damage to the NSRB.

We have gone over it exhaustively in TGs, Discord and now here, that I never had the intent that I meant to follow Ko-oren's host format. My credit to Ko-oren was thanking him for letting me borrow some wording and BB Code format from his RUWC 27 host bid post, not tournament format (aka how the tournament was hosted) You misinterpreted what I said, and you have given a little on this point but not conceded that I could have had a different intent. You feel I did not deliver on what I promised as a host, when I never promised what you insist that I did through your misinterpretation of my wording. Because you think that what is expected by you, would be expected by everyone. You further bolstered your argument that all RUWC hosts have clearly stated in their bids how they would run KO fixture seeding, when on further investigation, it has been proven that few if any hosts have ever talked about KO fixtures in their host bid posts, and some have then only elaborated on the topic in their OPs of RUWC Everything Threads. Further, it is obvious that there has never been consistency in RUWC hosting over the last few years or transparency in how they intend to formulate KO fixtures and seeding based on group stage performance - it seems to have always been accepted as host's prerogative, as no one else has been challenged as I have in their lack of transparency. You have stopped talking about those points, so I guess maybe that my point on expectation of consistency or the insinuation that a host will follow a certain hosting format rang true, but you won't concede any part of your escalation in this argument, so why that?

I apologize for my lack of communication. I could go into what was going on in my RL, but I don't want a pity river of tears. I should have been more prompt in my response and not reacted to your insistence, and that is entirely on me. My putting it off to focus on other things only made things more difficult to clear up down the line and escalated the situation. In the end, I will have to do better in communicating. Mea culpa. I did not communicate with you in the manner I should have or that is expected of a host.

You continued to obfuscate when approached to take down your post of a OSF screenshot that I did not give you permission to use, when there was not possibly any other post I could have been talking about. There was no other post where you used my content without permission, nor even a post where you quoted me, so that really boiled it down to the one post in question. I think you were intentionally being stubborn in that regard. There were mistakes on both sides of our debate, as others have pointed out, and your escalation in trying to goad and shame me did not contribute to fair and honest communication. Both of us were immature at different points. You were very immature in regards to that post and your refusal to edit or remove it until moderation (who I didn't approach until several clear TGs got me nowhere) had to ask you to do it.

I don't just jump to demands to redact a whole part of the tournament made by one dissatisfied participant. If I had been approached by the NSRB Executive Council about it, whether r not I had my reasoning for my KO fixtures at the time, I would have needed to bow to their request as they are the authoritative body for all rugby affairs on NS. As made clear on Discord, I was voted host without ever stating my KO fixture process, and that was by NSRB sanction. It's extremely arrogant of you to decide you have more authority than them or the appointed host.

Speaking of the NSRB Exec Council, only they have control over the frequency of world cups. Rugby union WCs rotate with league and sevens cups, so they are less frequent than other sports WCs because the cycle involves all 2 codes and one sub-code (sevens), not just union alone. That's been stated more than a few times, but facts can be irrelevant when they don't fit a narrative. As in RL these days, and so now in our argument. There are a lot of factors also at play on RUWC frequency, and I think the bigger one is that rugby will never be as popular or anticipated as other NS sports.

If it makes others reading this more confident to participate in rugby: Rest assured that I have no desire to ever host a World Cup or major tournament again in this or any other sport, nor to sit on the executive council of any major NS sport again. I will be resigning any such positions I may now currently hold, pending the hope that I can line up replacements. Leading a NS sport executive board is a big responsibility and intentionally leaving it leaderless would be irresponsible.

* The exception to this statement is the AVBF, which I have made a long term commitment to continue, is very integrated into the canon of my main nation, and which incidentally has a very transparent 'Cup, Plate, Bowl' format that has been consistent through all 6 editions and will continue to be transparent through future editions.