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Independent Associations Championship Discussion Thread

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]

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Terre Septentrionale
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Founded: May 31, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Terre Septentrionale » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:30 pm

Drawkland wrote:
Terre Septentrionale wrote:Thanks for answering. I really really don't like how it went. First, Havynwild have an history of messing things up and is not a reliable host. I was glad when Tequilo stepped up, and I thought he was going to host. Then, without warning us, Havinwild is back and the group draw is already done. There's a good chance that if I had time to do it before the draw, I would have withdrawn from the tournament either, considering I don't trust Havynwild and what happened in hockey.

Yeah, I understand the situation was handled poorly, but that was 100% on me for not being more clear about the situation. Again though, Tequilo made it quite clear in his bid that he was only going to host if Havynwilde was not able to. It was an emergency bid, after all.

Also, what happened in hockey has pretty much nothing to do with the IAC, so I don't feel like that should be a factor in your decision-making. Still though, I have the utmost trust in Havynwilde to deliver a solid tournament, which is why I had no problems with confirming him as the host.

Good luck to everyone in the upcoming tournament!


Because of what happened in hockey, I've decided to temporary stop participating in any tournaments and that would've include this one.
Nation name: République de Terre Septentrionale | Trigramme: RTS | Capital: Ville Jacques-Cartier | Maps
Ranks: Hockey: 20th | American Football: 7th | Baseball: 17th | Association Football: 23rd | Rugby Union: 21st
Champions:
Runner Up: Cup of Harmony 76, International Baseball Slam XI
3rd Place: World Volleyball Expo X, International Baseball Slam XII, World Lacrosse Championship XXXV
4th Place: Arena Bowl VI
World Cup participations: WC 85 (3rd place in group), WC 86 (3rd place in group)

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Havynwilde
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Founded: Dec 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Havynwilde » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:53 pm

Havynwilde wrote:Following precedent in our unique circumstances I've consulted with Drawk as to a decision and I will not be removing Omerica from the draw on the following conditions
    (a) Nation(s) have already roleplayed, notably Squidroidia, effectively hampering the idea of a redraw
    (b) Omerica has had upwards of two weeks to make their withdrawal known and compromising the current draw for the sake of one person wouldn't be in the best interest of current rper and rosters
    (c) Omerica's withdrawal will largely not effect the current draw or seedings

Following the Musterfield Rule, Omerica's spot should they advance to the knockout round will be vacated the the next-placed team in their group, similarly their points will be set to their base (initial) level to reflect their non-participatory nature.

Finally in regards to me hosting, I've said multiple times I haven't had power over the past three weeks and concerns of my hosting that have been brought up are unwarranted given my good track record over the past 1 1/2 years in hosting int'l. and domestic sports, which were outlined in my bid. If there was genuine concerns with my bad it should've been addressed with an alternate bid that planned to compete with mine rather than be seen as a back-up plan.

The State of Havynwilde repeats itself.
Last edited by Havynwilde on Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Havynwilde, home of the perennial Melayu Archipelago underachievers

Currently a homeless college student, follow my journey here

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Havynwilde
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Founded: Dec 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Havynwilde » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:06 pm

cutoff tonight my be anywhere from 30-45min after 00:00 est, work ran late tonight
Havynwilde, home of the perennial Melayu Archipelago underachievers

Currently a homeless college student, follow my journey here

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Quintessence of Dust
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Founded: Nov 21, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quintessence of Dust » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:00 am

Would you be able to put the links to rosters back in the OP, please?
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Trolleborg
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Founded: Oct 11, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Trolleborg » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:08 am

Well, fiery proponents of the rank system, are you happy with what you got? Do you like a blatant rank coasting in the last two tournaments? Is this what you have in mind when begin your endeavour about ranks? How desirable you find rank coasted (even though unintentionally) nation won against hard-working team?

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Squidroidia
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Founded: Jun 04, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Squidroidia » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:01 pm

To be fair Poaf had no choice but to rank-coast due to IRL issues, same could be said for Vkyta and maybe Tequilo. I was a hard working RPer this tournament, and same could be said for you Trolleborg, and the fact that I was having a shock loss to Megistos (Who barely even RPed before beating me in the Quarters, although I like how he RPed the match) might be enough to start a rank-coasting discussion for IAC 12.

Nonetheless, congrats to Poaf even though RL issues didn't let you RP other than a handful of times towards the end. Heh, perhaps we could do the All-Star game stuff.

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Juvencus
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Founded: Nov 29, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Juvencus » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:08 pm

Although rank-coasting could be an issue I don't know what else to say rather than it happens, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
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Megistos
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Megistos » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:20 pm

Was it rank-coasting on purpose? Not in a million years. Poaf had IRL issues, so it's more of the problem that a top nation in the IAC has IRL problems and can barely RP, so everyone else thinks "Oh my gosh they just won this tournament because of rankcoasting", when in fact, it's just a coincidence. I honestly think this would only be a problem say Poaf just added themself to the signups, knew that they could rankcoast and watched it all happen. Did it happen? No. It's not a big problem.
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Trolleborg
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Founded: Oct 11, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Trolleborg » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:44 pm

Megistos wrote:Was it rank-coasting on purpose? Not in a million years. Poaf had IRL issues, so it's more of the problem that a top nation in the IAC has IRL problems and can barely RP, so everyone else thinks "Oh my gosh they just won this tournament because of rankcoasting", when in fact, it's just a coincidence. I honestly think this would only be a problem say Poaf just added themself to the signups, knew that they could rankcoast and watched it all happen. Did it happen? No. It's not a big problem.


Did you bother just read precisely what I am write?

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Omerica
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Posts: 437
Founded: Nov 18, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Omerica » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:05 pm

This reminds me of when Main Nation Ministry won the Cup of Harmony, having upset reigning indie champions Omerica in the semis before beating one of the co-hosts in the final.

It’s not as if the IAC never used ranks before its Xth edition, as IAC hosts used the KPB rankings for seeding and rank bonus. That severely disadvantaged teams that don’t take part in the World Cup, hence why there’s been a push to introduce an Indie ranking system. As the creator of the system that was used for the last two Championships, I can say that the interim system we have is flawed and should be replaced, but I also emphasise that roleplay is only one of three R’s—the others being rank and randomness—that determine tournament results.


So now that that’s over…

In regards to the entire farce that kicked off the Championship, what happened after the draw is my fault and my fault alone, for which I owe apology to Squid, Plough, Murph, Vykta and the rest of the Championship field. The nature of Omerica’s exit from the Championship was inappropriate and I deeply regret that. Whatever the consequences for that regrettable decision are, I fully accept them.

inb4 curse of kilkenny ii: bridget strikes back
Last edited by Omerica on Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TLA: OME, HUClavia
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Demonym: Rubbish Omerican
Every Omerica football match
This nation does not necessarily reflect my actual political views
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Muralos
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Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Muralos » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:23 pm

Trolleborg wrote:
Megistos wrote:Was it rank-coasting on purpose? Not in a million years. Poaf had IRL issues, so it's more of the problem that a top nation in the IAC has IRL problems and can barely RP, so everyone else thinks "Oh my gosh they just won this tournament because of rankcoasting", when in fact, it's just a coincidence. I honestly think this would only be a problem say Poaf just added themself to the signups, knew that they could rankcoast and watched it all happen. Did it happen? No. It's not a big problem.


Did you bother just read precisely what I am write?

Perhaps Megistos didn't do so carefully enough, but they are not to blame for that; it was easy to miss the parenthetical you added about Poafmersia's rank-coasting being unintentional. (But that's not an indictment of you either.)

The question, then, is whether this rank-coasting should be accepted, even if it was unintentional.

Like most people have voiced, I don't think it's unreasonable to incorporate rank into the IAC's scorination; this is a significant tournament and it makes sense for tournament experience to play a role in how a team does! And like many people have said, I don't think the ranking formula is necessarily a problem; Poafmersia's success may be a fluke. Perhaps, you could let rank bonus confer a considerably smaller advantage (while still being >zero)... but would you wnat that?

(edit for the millionth time: I realize that I'm a newbie and I haven't put as much thought into the ranking system as most people here)
Last edited by Muralos on Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Muralos (inspired by Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands; flag is that of Okha, Sakhalin Oblast)
Founder of the Asian Archipelago
82nd Cup of Harmony - Round of 32
12th Independent Associations Championship - Round of 16, co-hosts with Almuzahara
74th Baptism of Fire Tournament - Round of 16
11th Independent Associations Championship - Eighth-finalists (round of 16)
2nd International Football Cup - Champions
Asian Archipelago Embassy Cup - Quarterfinalists
Asian Archipelago Soccer Cup - Champions

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Muralos
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Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Muralos » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:27 pm

Squidroidia wrote:Heh, perhaps we could do the All-Star game stuff.

All-Star games... those sound fun.
Muralos (inspired by Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands; flag is that of Okha, Sakhalin Oblast)
Founder of the Asian Archipelago
82nd Cup of Harmony - Round of 32
12th Independent Associations Championship - Round of 16, co-hosts with Almuzahara
74th Baptism of Fire Tournament - Round of 16
11th Independent Associations Championship - Eighth-finalists (round of 16)
2nd International Football Cup - Champions
Asian Archipelago Embassy Cup - Quarterfinalists
Asian Archipelago Soccer Cup - Champions

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Megistos
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Megistos » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:46 pm

Trolleborg wrote:
Megistos wrote:Was it rank-coasting on purpose? Not in a million years. Poaf had IRL issues, so it's more of the problem that a top nation in the IAC has IRL problems and can barely RP, so everyone else thinks "Oh my gosh they just won this tournament because of rankcoasting", when in fact, it's just a coincidence. I honestly think this would only be a problem say Poaf just added themself to the signups, knew that they could rankcoast and watched it all happen. Did it happen? No. It's not a big problem.


Did you bother just read precisely what I am write?

I'm a human, and I make mistakes. If you yourself are saying that [unintentional] then why the hell would you yabber for something that isn't anyone's problem?
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Muralos
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Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Muralos » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:50 pm

Megistos wrote:
Trolleborg wrote:
Did you bother just read precisely what I am write?

I'm a human, and I make mistakes. If you yourself are saying that [unintentional] then why the hell would you yabber for something that isn't anyone's problem?

Maybe because, while it's not Poaf's problem, it might be a problem with the existing ranking system. I'm not sure I agree, but I think that's what Trolleborg is saying.
Muralos (inspired by Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands; flag is that of Okha, Sakhalin Oblast)
Founder of the Asian Archipelago
82nd Cup of Harmony - Round of 32
12th Independent Associations Championship - Round of 16, co-hosts with Almuzahara
74th Baptism of Fire Tournament - Round of 16
11th Independent Associations Championship - Eighth-finalists (round of 16)
2nd International Football Cup - Champions
Asian Archipelago Embassy Cup - Quarterfinalists
Asian Archipelago Soccer Cup - Champions

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PotatoFarmers
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Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby PotatoFarmers » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:09 pm

While I don't think that keeping the tournament an unranked tournament is fair to people who have RPed real hard over the past few tournaments, there may be ways we can tweak the ranking/RP bonus system to give others who have RPed their best a higher chance. I would argue that with my effort this time, I didn't expect to complete the tournament in this manner. OOCly I think I was extremely lucky to have pulled the correct combination of luck to get past opponents who surely have put in more effort than me; though I would definitely not reflect that sentiment ICly because OOC is not IC. Also, as what Ome point out, there are 3Rs, not just 1R.
Rather than dwell on this tournament, if there is a general opinion that something needs to be done, I would be happy to support and give feedback to anyone who wants to come up with something new. Maybe bidding guidelines or what not. But whatever the case, I hope the discussion can be more constructive in order to make future tournaments more fun for all of us.
IC Name: The People's Republic of Poafmersia (Trigram: PFA)
IC Flag: Refer to my flag with my IC nation Poafmersia, though that nation's RP will be done with this account.

David Jossiah Beckingham, Chairman of Poafmersia's World Assembly Board (and officially the main representative to the WA)

Citizen of The North Pacific
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Speaker, The North Pacific

Sportswire. Achievements: BoF 71 Bronze; IAC X and IAC XI Champions
WCC Football (Post-WC90) - 31st, with 22.89, Style: +3.14159
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Havynwilde
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Posts: 218
Founded: Dec 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Havynwilde » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:14 am

sorry for causing confusion a few tomes n allat hope dis tournament was fun fo yall n we fin make da necessary changes to make allat better da next time round
Havynwilde, home of the perennial Melayu Archipelago underachievers

Currently a homeless college student, follow my journey here

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Trolleborg
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Founded: Oct 11, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Trolleborg » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:13 am

Try to put my argument in detail.

Not a single team in the world can count on winning major tournament without any efforts. Not even Germany or Brazil. So what happening with ranks is just ridiculous. In my opinion some sort of ranks is needed, but it must not allow streak of wins just because you put some efforts or just be lucky somewhere in the past. Two, maybe three days worth RP, and that's all. This give a RPing newbie fair chance of upsetting not-playing majors and provide incentive not just to sit on the ass.

And RP bonus must be really worth doing something. It's your actual creativity\hard work and so on must raise team chance of winning, not something you did in the distant past, already covered by dust. Yes, it's possible that RL take you from the game for a days or weeks by iron hand. But real life players can be distracted, tired from the long season, lost motivation, disheartened by every possible set of circumstances, just lost momentum, or coach can make errors in the middle of divorce process.

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Havynwilde
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Founded: Dec 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Havynwilde » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:45 pm

im sorry results caused so many issues but i gave hella points n shit n rp bonuses n included been had da rp challenges so i been did my part iont know elwht exactly i coulda done mo
Havynwilde, home of the perennial Melayu Archipelago underachievers

Currently a homeless college student, follow my journey here

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Strike
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Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Strike » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:52 pm

Trolleborg wrote:Try to put my argument in detail.

Not a single team in the world can count on winning major tournament without any efforts. Not even Germany or Brazil. So what happening with ranks is just ridiculous. In my opinion some sort of ranks is needed, but it must not allow streak of wins just because you put some efforts or just be lucky somewhere in the past. Two, maybe three days worth RP, and that's all. This give a RPing newbie fair chance of upsetting not-playing majors and provide incentive not just to sit on the ass.

And RP bonus must be really worth doing something. It's your actual creativity\hard work and so on must raise team chance of winning, not something you did in the distant past, already covered by dust. Yes, it's possible that RL take you from the game for a days or weeks by iron hand. But real life players can be distracted, tired from the long season, lost motivation, disheartened by every possible set of circumstances, just lost momentum, or coach can make errors in the middle of divorce process.


What exactly is it that is "happening"? You earn a ranking by your results and you earn results by RPing. Yes, some get lucky and get better results for less RP and you can always find an isolated incident like Starblaydia making the World Cup Final against Audioslavia (which is both a good and bad example, since the World Cup was won by the lower ranked higher RP team even if the higher ranked, low RP team made the final).

These regional tournaments are short. There isn't a lot of time to earn upsets, the gaps in ranking from team to team is much greater because there are fewer teams spread out among a larger number of groups. If you want to RP sports where the only thing that matters is what you write down before/after a match, why not just move to whatever section of the forum that handles with actual stories and make one up. Start an entirely IC Sports Thread where you can just write the results as you want them to be. Thats what creativity driving results means.

This is not a writing factory. Folks are not getting paid by the line or the article. This is supposed to be people having fun, enjoying themselves writing ABOUT the made up scores delivered by the scorinator - not people competing to pump out the most words and whoever puts the most (number, creative, inciteful, clever etc) words by the deadline gets the result. Thats not what this is. The second thats what this becomes is when a lot of the participants go away. Ranking is the glue that holds everything together. Its ugly and sticky and sometimes it stinks but without it - it really doesn't matter what beautiful picture you are trying to hang on the wall there won't be anyone to see it.

You are writing because you want to. Writing will help you get better results in the short term so you can improve your ranking and get better results in the long term. If you don't like it, then only enter the DBC and be done with it

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Cascadia Empire
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Founded: Dec 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cascadia Empire » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:59 pm

Trolleborg wrote:
And RP bonus must be really worth doing something. It's your actual creativity\hard work and so on must raise team chance of winning, not something you did in the distant past, already covered by dust.
Yes, it's possible that RL take you from the game for a days or weeks by iron hand. But real life players can be distracted, tired from the long season, lost motivation, disheartened by every possible set of circumstances, just lost momentum, or coach can make errors in the middle of divorce process.

I would like to point out that it is doing something. The nations at the top of the ranks in almost every competition (bar a few random occasions) are the ones that are building their way up to those spots, and holding them through strong RP. One day, if you keep your RP level up, you will become one of those top nations, and better RPing and not getting frustrated will just help.

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Lorrana
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Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lorrana » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:31 pm

Does anyone have estimates as to when the next IAC will be held? I'm new to NS Sports so idk how often these events are

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PotatoFarmers
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Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby PotatoFarmers » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:21 pm

Lorrana wrote:Does anyone have estimates as to when the next IAC will be held? I'm new to NS Sports so idk how often these events are

Regionals, like the IAC, the AOCAF, CR and CE, all happen during the lull period after the World Cup and the CoH
IC Name: The People's Republic of Poafmersia (Trigram: PFA)
IC Flag: Refer to my flag with my IC nation Poafmersia, though that nation's RP will be done with this account.

David Jossiah Beckingham, Chairman of Poafmersia's World Assembly Board (and officially the main representative to the WA)

Citizen of The North Pacific
Ambassador to Europe.
Speaker, The North Pacific

Sportswire. Achievements: BoF 71 Bronze; IAC X and IAC XI Champions
WCC Football (Post-WC90) - 31st, with 22.89, Style: +3.14159
Get the latest from WCQ91 here: https://bit.ly/NSSWCQ91

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Tequilo
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Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Tequilo » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:25 pm

PotatoFarmers wrote:
Lorrana wrote:Does anyone have estimates as to when the next IAC will be held? I'm new to NS Sports so idk how often these events are

Regionals, like the IAC, the AOCAF, CR and CE, all happen during the lull period after the World Cup and the CoH

...likely around mid- to late March once the World Cup cycle is complete and hosting arrangements are set.
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Lorrana
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Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lorrana » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:28 pm

Tequilo wrote:
PotatoFarmers wrote:Regionals, like the IAC, the AOCAF, CR and CE, all happen during the lull period after the World Cup and the CoH

...likely around mid- to late March once the World Cup cycle is complete and hosting arrangements are set.


Thanks! That's helpful to know
NS Stats are sometimes right, but sometimes wrong. TG me if you have questions, but the most important thing to know is that Lorrana is capitalist, even though the stats show otherwise
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IAC Organising Committee
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Founded: Nov 23, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby IAC Organising Committee » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:05 pm

Signups for IAC-12 are now open!
This account is currently administered by Drawkland.
Please consult our discussion thread with questions or concerns.

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