Handball World Cup 22 (Signup Thread)

[Libonesia]

LIBONESIA!!!

[Northwest Kalactin]

snip

Due to the apparent concerns about the use of NSFS, I have decided to use a free trial on the Paralells program to run xkoranate on my MacOS, which will last for enough time to finish the tournament.

An announcement about a decision on the problems of the current rank system highlighted in This post will be made shortly.

[Sylestone]

I did calculate the rankings, but I just used the formula laid out by Free Republics (which is very similar to the one used in other competitions). Seeing as everyone has mentioned using these rankings, I want to mention two problems I have with them. First, given the last HWC was so long ago many nations in the top 20 have CTEd. This means the top two have a huge rankings gulf over everyone else. Second, the formula means the 3rd placed team gained more rankings points than the runner-up, and the same number as the overall champion of HWC21. Either reducing the points for the 3PPO game or adding a bonus for finalists might be needed (although in this case, I believe the 3rd placed team has now CTEd). Obviously it's up to bidders whether they make such changes, or consider these problems at all.

I don’t know how other users do it, but I have two suggestions to overcome the rankings problem with the third-place game.

1. Use a bonus for the nations in the finals.
2. Do not count the third-place playoff in rankings (my preferred option)

As for the unfair rankings problem, no real solution comes to mind. I think we should just use them how they are OR decrease the rankings of those too high to something more fair. (Of course, the nations in question must agree to this.)

These are my views.

[Sarzonia]

I thought the general consensus was that the last tournament was so long ago that using the rankings based on it was pointless.

If you feel there have to be rankings, you might try to modify them so they have less impact than they would if this were running regularly.

I don't see the need to use ranks for this edition.

[Sylestone]

I thought the general consensus was that the last tournament was so long ago that using the rankings based on it was pointless.

If you feel there have to be rankings, you might try to modify them so they have less impact than they would if this were running regularly.

I don't see the need to use ranks for this edition.

Yeah, after the first round of bidding, most people votes to reopen the bidding. The only real reason most of us could find was because people wanted ranks.
I personally didn’t see the point if ranks and didn’t really care whether we used them or not but if the community wants them, then we’ll use them

[Delaclava]

First of all, I think it's worthwhile to at least maintain the rankings, both for recording purposes as well as IC continuity. For the formula itself, I don't see the issue of the third-place team having equal points to the champion as inherently a problem. This is entirely possible in the KPB rankings and there is no correction for this situation. In contrast, the World Bowl rankings do automatically assign max points to the champion. I personally believe the champion should never have fewer points than anyone else, but I don't think there is a wrong answer to that question - just what we as a handball community prefer.

Once the rankings are in place, it's always up to the bidding hosts to determine how much or how little they want to weight ranks vs. RP (vs. randomness). I'd certainly encourage a low emphasis on rankings and high emphasis on RP, given the issues presented with timing and inactive nations. It's one of the factors we can consider when the impending voting window opens.

Yeah, after the first round of bidding, most people votes to reopen the bidding. The only real reason most of us could find was because people wanted ranks.
I personally didn’t see the point if ranks, but if the community wants them, then we’ll use them.

This is not the reason I voted to re-open bidding. If it feels right for you to not use rankings, I encourage you to bid accordingly.

[Sylestone]

First of all, I think it's worthwhile to at least maintain the rankings, both for recording purposes as well as IC continuity. For the formula itself, I don't see the issue of the third-place team having equal points to the champion as inherently a problem. This is entirely possible in the KPB rankings and there is no correction for this situation. In contrast, the World Bowl rankings do automatically assign max points to the champion. I personally believe the champion should never have fewer points than anyone else, but I don't think there is a wrong answer to that question - just what we as a handball community prefer.

Once the rankings are in place, it's always up to the bidding hosts to determine how much or how little they want to weight ranks vs. RP (vs. randomness). I'd certainly encourage a low emphasis on rankings and high emphasis on RP, given the issues presented with timing and inactive nations. It's one of the factors we can consider when the impending voting window opens.

Yeah, after the first round of bidding, most people votes to reopen the bidding. The only real reason most of us could find was because people wanted ranks.
I personally didn’t see the point if ranks, but if the community wants them, then we’ll use them.

This is not the reason I voted to re-open bidding. If it feels right for you to not use rankings, I encourage you to bid accordingly.

Sorry, didn’t word my message correctly. What I meant was I didn’t care whether rankings were used, but Ethane and I decided not to use to them, just because we thought the community would prefer it.
I think we’ll still go ahead with our current bid, though.

[Ethane]

And with that, I currently make there to be 31 signups. Signups will remain open during the host voting.

There are 3 bids to choose from, plus the options of re-opening bids or abstention.

Ethane and Sylestone's Handball World Cup 22 Host Bid
Maccian and Northwest Kalactin's Host Bid for the Handball World Cup 22
Welcome to the North - Savojarna HWC 22 Host Bid
Re-open Bidding.
Abstain.

You may only vote for one option. Please send your votes to Independent Athletes of Quebec by Thursday 6th August at 1100 UTC.

[Sarzonia]

Independent Athletes of Quebec got deleted

[Independent Athletes from Quebec]

Independent Athletes of Quebec got deleted

Try here!

[Free Republic of Hong Kong]

Why not,FRHK team will join

[Dryicor]

Seems fun. Dryicor will enter.

[Ethane]

Alright, I mistyped. Independent Athletes from Quebec, and I'll extend host voting by a day, so please vote by midnight on the 7th August.

[Equestrian States]

What the hell, why not? Equestria is in.

[Independent Athletes from Quebec]

And here are the host vote results. For the sake of fairness, all votes placed by any bidding party were rejected as invalid.

Ethane and Sylestone - 0
Maccian and Northwest Kalactin - 0
Savojarna - 3
Re-open Bidding - 1

Congratulations to Savojarna, and consolations to the other voting parties. Savo, the tournament's now yours to handle.

[Savojarna]

Thank you to the community for the trust put into Savojarna! It seems that currently, 34 nations are signed up, which is a bit of an awkward number - I'd plan to keep signups open until we have 36 nations. In line with my bid's rationale of a long group stage to allow people to make up RP bonus, there would be a group stage of four groups of nine, with daily scorination until the knockout games and scores every other day from there onwards. Expect an Everything thread at some point later this weekend as well!

[The Overseas Territories of Sylestone]

Signing up as a numbers puppet. Remove if required.
Clearly a puppet of Sylestone.

[Sylestone]

Signing up as a numbers puppet. Remove if required.
Clearly a puppet of Sylestone.

Confirming these frustrating lesser states of mine.

[Squidroidia]

Eh, why not. 36 sounds fun in my eyes. Play ball!

[Ethane]

Congratulations to Savojarna. Well done on winning the host vote; I'm sure you'll do a great job at running the HWC and revitalising this competition.

[Savojarna]

And, if I counted right, this makes it 36 and we'll close signups! Everything Thread will go up tonight - expect the group draw in maximum 24 hours. The first matchday, as of now, I'd aim to start Wednesday morning UTC, which would amount to roughly 60 hours from now.

[Savojarna]

Here's an Everything Thread!