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Independents Cup 10 Sign-Up Thread

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]

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Fujai
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Posts: 85
Founded: Mar 31, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fujai » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:27 pm

Free Republics wrote:Why can't hosts just increase the RP bonus scale so that RPing unranked nations have a chance of beating a rank coasting top ranked nation?

I think hosts should still focus on high RP bonuses to do just that. The difference is instead of doing patch jobs for non-WC nations every competition, we use our own rankings that favor the IAC over the WC. Imo high ranked teams shouldn't be able to coast by in the first place, minus randomness.

We can always implement something, test it out, and get rid of it later if it turns out we don't like it.
Last edited by Fujai on Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Squornshelan Remnant States
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Posts: 227
Founded: Jun 25, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Squornshelan Remnant States » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:17 am

Of the various proposals currently on offer, I think I favor KitKat/Omerica's formalized replacement bonus. It has the advantages of being easy to understand and implement, while giving appropriate rank both to teams that should perform well based on their high KPB, and teams that should perform well due to good recent performances at the IAC.

Adding a KPB-based bonus to an IAC ranking as in the CR-styled proposal would still disadvantage teams who do not participate in the World Cup, just less so than we have before.

Continuing to use raw KPB but increasing RP bonus scale would help active first timers. I don't think it gives adequate consideration to teams like Silver Beach and Space, though, which deserve to have some degree of starting rank based on their past participation in the IAC.

I'm not sure I like including RP bonus in the actual ranking formula. Presumably, on average, teams with higher RP bonus will also have better performance in that tournament. I expect giving them credit for both in the actual ranking would lead to opening a larger gap between a small number of realistic contenders, and a large pool of cannon fodder.

I have to confess, I'm not sure I fully understand the weighting of Fujai's Pool Stage-Based Ranking system. If I'm reading it right, this would give a little extra boost to teams that do well in their group, but fail to advance?
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New Lusitania and the Algarves
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Founded: Nov 02, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Lusitania and the Algarves » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:33 pm

A return has to be in order. In.
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Gekkeom
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Posts: 11
Founded: Feb 15, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gekkeom » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:36 am

I want to join

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Recuecn
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Posts: 781
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Recuecn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:51 pm

I guess I might as well weigh in, since when have I ever kept my opinion to myself... I think KitKat's proposal is an elegant, simple solution that is consistent with what we've done before. I'd pair that with the idea that we should continue to use sizable RP bonuses (which I think has also been tradition - I like our little IAC traditions of roster penalty, rp emphasis, etc). KitKat's proposal (and Fujai's) are both pretty unique, which as others have said, I think is nice for the Independents, since we're a pretty unique group. (That's also why I think it's made sense to just use the KPB's - they ignore region as well. But of course participation should be rewarded. On the other hand I wonder if that's just a way for nations in the big three to send puppets more easily - and how I'd feel about that. Is that something we want to encourage? But then each nation that doesn't do the world cup probably has their own reason for not doing it, so encouraging that sort of independence is good too.)

Sorry, I'm kind of rambling, but basically I don't think we want an overly complicated or radical solution, so KitKat's looks good to me, if we're going to change things. (Even if we don't institute "Independent rankings", I probably would've done something that closely resembled that were I to win the bid.)

I'd also be really interested to hear others opinions though - Schottia and Bonesea, since they're both around now, as well as others like Zwangzug, or especially other nations who don't join the WCC competitions, like Space, what they think of all this.

(Final note I forgot to mention: I do think it's important that the KPBs are reflected in our ranks - it's unrealistic for FFR to win the world cup and not be at the top or near the top of the ranks. Breaks the immersion.)
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Tequilo
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Posts: 138
Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tequilo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:28 am

Bonesea here posting as Tequilo; I like the work done on these and especially the sensitivity in discussion toward keeping RP front and central. It is also nice to see innovation being given due consideration.

Recuecn wrote:[...] I don't think we want an overly complicated or radical solution, so KitKat's looks good to me, if we're going to change things [...]

I do think it's important that the KPBs are reflected in our ranks - it's unrealistic for FFR to win the world cup and not be at the top or near the top of the ranks. Breaks the immersion


I would echo these opinions as reflecting my own.

On a separate note, should we think about getting under way soon? We have two good bids to consider, we have the sign-ups, and [IC] we've let the Big Three get started... is it time to show them how it's done?! [/IC]
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Zwangzug
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Posts: 4432
Founded: Oct 19, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Zwangzug » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:13 pm

Free Republics wrote:Why can't hosts just increase the RP bonus scale so that RPing unranked nations have a chance of beating a rank coasting top ranked nation?
I guess I agree with this when it comes to the two Silver Beach formulas, is one literally just the other divided by two? I feel like hosts should be able to scale whatever RP system they want to the ranks as is appropriate for an individual tournament. (Although I may be overly optimistic about people's abilities to scale because I instituted the WBC ranks that no one likes :p )

I'm probably not going to participate this time around, but both ICly and OOCly I like the idea of a Casaran system especially for the reason mentioned by Fujai:
Apart from scheduling fun, Casaran may alleviate group tunnel vision and instead focus everyone on the larger community, something I think us Indies would be interested in.


I share the concern about
On the other hand I wonder if that's just a way for nations in the big three to send puppets more easily - and how I'd feel about that. Is that something we want to encourage?
With all due respect to the existing "big three," I feel like a lot of their existing cross-pollination borders on the incestuous and kind of defeats the purpose. I don't know what the solution is to reward dedicated non-WC users, but I don't think encouraging other nations to throw in their puppets for the heck of it is a desirable goal.

I appreciate Trolleborg sharing their opinion on wanting a sizable RP bonus, I think it's important to hear those perspectives from newer members because some of us can become kind of set in our ways.

I also thought I saw something about goal difference that didn't seem correct but now on second read, I can't find it. (TL;DR: with additive modifiers used in xkoranate, there will be very little impact on teams' goal difference no matter what style they choose, so it's appropriate to use goal difference as a tiebreaker because you won't be excessively incentivizing people to choose positive/negative based on their rank.)
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United States of Devonta
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Posts: 6010
Founded: Sep 20, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby United States of Devonta » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:15 pm

In. If space allows.
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IAC Organising Committee
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Posts: 40
Founded: Nov 23, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby IAC Organising Committee » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:39 pm

Hey everyone, sorry I've not been totally on top of signups and the discussion. This is Drawk here. I like the ranking ideas we're looking at right now - honestly, I have no preference in what, if anything, becomes the new norm. For this cycle, considering we've fallen a bit behind the other regionals, I say that we should let the host (whichever that ends up being) decide what ranking system, if any, to use.

I think that an official, catch-all IAC OOC thread is in order, and I'll probably get to crafting that once this particular Cup concludes.

In other news, we're currently sitting at 36 signups (this is confirming the withdrawal of Graintfjall). Boney/Tequilo is right here, we ought to get things rolling along. I'll give everyone one more day to ask questions to the potential bidders or air any other concerns, and my tomorrow night (so 24 hours from this post, give or take) I will open a quick host vote.

In the interest of keeping the cycle rolling, and since most people vote within a couple days, the host vote will run for probably 3-4 days. More information will be forthcoming tomorrow. I'll likely restrict the voting to any users who have previously participated in any IAC, and are currently signed up for this one.

Let me know if y'all have any other concerns!
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Nacrad
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Posts: 928
Founded: Jan 16, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nacrad » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:16 am

Signing up here
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Free Republics
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Founded: May 03, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Free Republics » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:26 am

I withdraw.
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Fleuronordicia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Fleuronordicia » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:03 am

Nous sommes de retour!
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Megistian Charon
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Posts: 2
Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Megistian Charon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:07 am

I sign up as a puppet of Megistos

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Megistos
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Posts: 522
Founded: May 01, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Megistos » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:08 am

Megistian Charon wrote:I sign up as a puppet of Megistos

confirming this
Zedeshia wrote:Megistos is now ball
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--------------------- Megistos
--------------------- Football
--------------------- Association

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IAC Organising Committee
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Posts: 40
Founded: Nov 23, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby IAC Organising Committee » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:51 pm

Megistos wrote:
Megistian Charon wrote:I sign up as a puppet of Megistos

confirming this

Sorry, since this is Megistos's first cycle in the IAC, you aren't eligible to enter a puppet. Next cycle, you'll be fine to enter them!

IAC Organising Committee wrote:In other news, we're currently sitting at 36 signups

After two valid signups and another withdrawal, we're now sitting at 37 signups.

IAC Organising Committee wrote:we ought to get things rolling along.

With this post, voting for the host of IAC-10 is now underway!

Your options for host are:
Omerica - bid
Reçueçn - bid
Re-Open Bidding

Any user who has participated in a previous IAC (that is, if you've participated in the IAC before, even if with a different nation) and is currently signed up for this IAC is eligible to vote. Please sent your votes by telegram to THIS NATION. I will close voting approximately 72 hours from now, which is midnight Tuesday night (Eastern Time). Please get votes in before then!

Thanks everyone, and good luck in this edition of the tournament, no matter who ends up hosting it.
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Megistos
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Posts: 522
Founded: May 01, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Megistos » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:43 am

IAC Organising Committee wrote:
Megistos wrote:


sry, forgot
Zedeshia wrote:Megistos is now ball
Military Size of 290 million, including battle robots

--------------------- Megistos
--------------------- Football
--------------------- Association

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Hwiccemark
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Jul 13, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hwiccemark » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:50 pm

Yes please! (If I'm eligible? I think I am)

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Natanya
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Posts: 370
Founded: Nov 15, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Natanya » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:03 am

I will sign up for the first time if I can! :)
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IAC Organising Committee
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Founded: Nov 23, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby IAC Organising Committee » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:25 pm

Natanya wrote:I will sign up for the first time if I can! :)
Hwiccemark wrote:Yes please! (If I'm eligible? I think I am)

You are both eligible, of course! We're now sitting at 39 signups.

IAC Organising Committee wrote:I will close voting approximately 72 hours from now, which is midnight Tuesday night (Eastern Time). Please get votes in before then!

Well I got surprisingly busy last night and this fell through. Luckily though, nobody voted after my tentative deadline of approximately 24 hours ago.

9 ballots were received. The voting breakdown:

OMERICA - 5
REÇUEÇN - 3
Abstain - 1

For transparency, the abstention was one of the bidding parties. The other didn't vote. With this clear majority of valid host votes, Omerica shall be the duly elected host for IAC-10. Sorry Recu, I guess it's not #TimeForCasaran yet!

All things relating to signups, timing, etc. are now in Omerica's control. Good luck to everyone!
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Omerica
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Posts: 277
Founded: Nov 18, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Omerica » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am

Thank you to everyone who voted and commiserations to Reçu on losing a fairly close vote.

On procedural matters, signups will be held open for one more team, which means that we will have eight groups of five. The everything thread will open later today (EDT) is officially open, with a tentative start date of Friday, 7 August—one week from tomorrow.

Good luck to everyone! Get your rubber chicken sacrifices ready. :p
Last edited by Omerica on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tequilo
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Posts: 138
Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tequilo » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:00 am

Congrats to Omerica on the successful bid, I'm looking forward to this! A side note; I really do hope that after our special Xth anniversary edition we go back to Arabic numerals...
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The Heraion
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Posts: 7
Founded: Dec 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Heraion » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:27 pm

The Community requires an additional member. We are cognizant of our responsibilities to the Community, & as such, we are prepared to sacrifice for its sake.

We're basically a numbers puppet, so feel free to boot us if another nation arrives.
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PotatoFarmers
Envoy
 
Posts: 304
Founded: Jun 07, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby PotatoFarmers » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:06 am

A question at this point -> Since it was decided for the host to decide this, what would be the rankings we will be using for the tournament? Will it be a pure KPB rankings, or whichever formula that was proposed?
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Drawkland
Minister
 
Posts: 3478
Founded: Aug 27, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drawkland » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:13 pm

Tequilo wrote:Congrats to Omerica on the successful bid, I'm looking forward to this! A side note; I really do hope that after our special Xth anniversary edition we go back to Arabic numerals...

I have zero interest in continuing with a roman numeral system. Notice that the thread OP exclusively stylizes this edition as "10" ... it was the bidders who decided to call it IAC-X instead. :p
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Juvencus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 478
Founded: Nov 29, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Juvencus » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:37 pm

I don't know if there's any spots open left, but if there are spots open then I'd like to sign up

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