NationStates

Valdiviola wrote:I would like to take this opportunity to suggest that the community has a discussion about how we 'scorinate' future world cups...

...three of our four semi-finalists failed to so much as post a roster before the world cup, or post any RP in the thread as far as I can tell, and yet have managed to knock out fully fleshed out teams with histories and back stories abound! Two of those teams have now ceased to exist.

Almost half the teams to make the knockout stages failed to post rosters/RPs whilst a number of teams failed to progress who even had a story arc going across multiple competitions with recurring characters!

While not catching the CTE'd teams until earlier is regrettable, and disqualifying those teams in accordance with NSS guidelines would have assisted in this manner...

The rest of what happened is simply the name of the game. Each tournament host, for any sport, is charged with determining the balance between the "three R's" - rank, RP bonus, and randomness - and every tournament the desired effect of these factors may be different. While future hosts can look at the results of this tournament and try to set up the technical details so that results are less random, I would also caution against any future hosts overreacting to this batch of results.

Whilst I enjoy the randomness of the sport, we surely need to do more to reward the efforts of the community that get involved going forward - I have no idea how this would be done, I should add.

The efforts of players who got involved were rewarded - with a greater chance of winning. No one is guaranteed, nor entitled to, a better result simply because they RPed. As I mentioned, future hosts - including players who have been around much longer and/or more consistently, and therefore do have an idea of how this would be done - may choose to adjust the technical details of scorination, but the degree of randomness will always remain.

And randomness is a good thing - it allows for the element of surprise, for active newer nations to get a shot at entering the top of their respective sports, for back-and-forth rivalries to develop. In the long run, the teams who participate more frequently and with higher quality achieve will achieve the better results.

The one thing I would suggest for future tournaments of any sport with four-team groups where there isn't an extensive qualifying campaign is to have them be double-round robins.

Kelssek mentioned regretting only having a four-match single round Robin for the World Cup of Hockey because some teams whose players roleplayed extensively were eliminated after four matches.

I might have done a bit more if I weren't already eliminated after two days, but that doesn't mean I should be entitled to advance just because I was the defending champion. I recognize that shit happens.

I would like to address a few things.

#1 Sarz, I do prefer double round robin tournaments for most things as yes, it allows for more RP etc. The fact of the matter is we only have 32 sides here, and Quidditch is mostly based on soccer (in nature, not practice) and it seemed against the nature of the sport to do anything but a traditional format.

#2 Valdiviola I had many annoyances on my end as the further the tournament lost I lost more and more of my consistent rpers. Let me tell you as a host that takes a lot of the fun of it. I would have traded having more consistent rp left over and people who actually enjoyed the tournament, and wanted to rp in later rounds. That would have been better for everyone. As one of the main proponents of Quidditch here I would love to create an environment where Rping is very big in this sport and we have something, maybe not as big as the other sports as they are real and have real fanbases outside of the sect that read a certain series. I love the idea of the world we can create within our worlds.

#3 Me and Del have been talking about a more structured format for Quidditch. As it's basically been one a year or so for the last bit. There has been 10 total of these in like 10 years, that is not great. If we have more structure we can get it done more, create a better environment and maybe use ranks or something that create a better place for those who do rp, or are involved. ETC. If we have more consistent and more involved people and formats this can be a fun thing for everyone.

#4 Krigiersien in the RP thread. It's a bit rough to have a sort of lucky loser tournament for 3rd place considering people were knocked out at different levels by teams that don't exist.

#5 I understand that Abahnfleft didn't rp and that really sucks but teams have been qualifying for World Cups that way for ages. Back when I started we literally had the Tynelia effect because of it. Basically have a good rank and coast. That really shouldn't be a thing in a RP, non-ranked tournament like this but it happens. Especially on lower length tournaments like this.

That was really what I was trying to do in running this but a lot of it fell flat I can tell and see.

Well, I feared that something like that could happen, as it does often because of the randomness of the dice, that in the end inactive nations could be on the Top. You can't change that if you are not blasting the bonus for RP against Non-RP into silly proportions.

It is, like it is, but I always like to see the opportunities to RP.

A countertournament to protest against the evil ways of Salkin Rock's and liverpudian, anyone? A 'faithful magicians' World Cup? To challenge the finalists again? No? Well, I would be in, if anyone would organize that.

Kriegiersien wrote:A countertournament to protest against the evil ways of Salkin Rock's and liverpudian, anyone? A 'faithful magicians' World Cup? To challenge the finalists again? No? Well, I would be in, if anyone would organize that.

Perhaps a better way - if there's interest - is to jump the gun and just go again soon with QWC11. Not immediately, but certainly well before the signups for WC86 start. It'd be good timing for some more active RP from the participants, and get the ball rolling on a more frequent QWC schedule, which Taeshan and I have discussed and which he mentioned up above.

This tournament attracts a somewhat niche group anyway, so there's no need to wait for the "best time" for everyone. With all the different sports that go on around here, the best we can do is commit to a regular schedule and allow participants to prioritise it as they see fit.

Delaclava wrote:

Kriegiersien wrote:A countertournament to protest against the evil ways of Salkin Rock's and liverpudian, anyone? A 'faithful magicians' World Cup? To challenge the finalists again? No? Well, I would be in, if anyone would organize that.

Perhaps a better way - if there's interest - is to jump the gun and just go again soon with QWC11. Not immediately, but certainly well before the signups for WC86 start. It'd be good timing for some more active RP from the participants, and get the ball rolling on a more frequent QWC schedule, which Taeshan and I have discussed and which he mentioned up above.

This tournament attracts a somewhat niche group anyway, so there's no need to wait for the "best time" for everyone. With all the different sports that go on around here, the best we can do is commit to a regular schedule and allow participants to prioritise it as they see fit.

That sounds real good

Delaclava wrote:

Kriegiersien wrote:A countertournament to protest against the evil ways of Salkin Rock's and liverpudian, anyone? A 'faithful magicians' World Cup? To challenge the finalists again? No? Well, I would be in, if anyone would organize that.

Perhaps a better way - if there's interest - is to jump the gun and just go again soon with QWC11. Not immediately, but certainly well before the signups for WC86 start. It'd be good timing for some more active RP from the participants, and get the ball rolling on a more frequent QWC schedule, which Taeshan and I have discussed and which he mentioned up above.

This tournament attracts a somewhat niche group anyway, so there's no need to wait for the "best time" for everyone. With all the different sports that go on around here, the best we can do is commit to a regular schedule and allow participants to prioritise it as they see fit.

We are definitely in for more Quidditch. Perhaps, due to the strange turn of events at QWC10, the Quidditch authorities decided to host QWC10.5!

Edit: What if we had a post-World Cup party where all the participating nations who wanted to could gather and roleplay? And discuss different Quidditch things.

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
We are definitely in for more Quidditch. Perhaps, due to the strange turn of events at QWC10, the Quidditch authorities decided to host QWC10.5!

While this is just getting hung up on the name, I think it's best to avoid any sort of naming that indicates that either this edition of this tournament, or its successor, is somehow "less than". The results generated from this tournament, while unexpected, are still legitimate, and either you or Abanhfleft is a rightful winner. Similarly, I believe the next tournament winner should also be afforded the privilege to be considered full-fledged Quidditch World Cup champions, not merely the winners of an intermediary tournament.

At any rate, I have rankings ready to go once this tournament is completed - they are based on the IBC (basketball) formula and accounting for results achieved in the past three QWC editions (8, 9, and 10).

Delaclava wrote:

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
We are definitely in for more Quidditch. Perhaps, due to the strange turn of events at QWC10, the Quidditch authorities decided to host QWC10.5!

While this is just getting hung up on the name, I think it's best to avoid any sort of naming that indicates that either this edition of this tournament, or its successor, is somehow "less than". The results generated from this tournament, while unexpected, are still legitimate, and either you or Abanhfleft is a rightful winner. Similarly, I believe the next tournament winner should also be afforded the privilege to be considered full-fledged Quidditch World Cup champions, not merely the winners of an intermediary tournament.

At any rate, I have rankings ready to go once this tournament is completed - they are based on the IBC (basketball) formula and accounting for results achieved in the past three QWC editions (8, 9, and 10).

I am not complaining; the tournament is legit. I understand your point.

Data from the past three Cups? Sweet!

First, congrats to Western Fardelshufflestein (that name is getting easier to type with time...) on a well-deserved QWC title! In a tournament where less active nations were more successful than usual, it is a more optimistic that a constant RPer like you managed to win it all. I personally hope we see you back for more!

Additionally, I have created a set of rankings based on performances in the past three editions, and am open to any feedback on the formula, which is based on the IBC (basketball) formula:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

With that said, thus securing the #1 ranking!

EDIT: Two notes about the rankings - one specific, one general:

1) While Liverpudlian Revolution of Ireland made the semifinals of QWC10, it was determined that they should have been removed from the tournament after completing the group stage. Thus, they were only given ranking points for their group stage wins. On the QWC10 tab, you will see the calculations for all four teams that CTE'd, as well as my explanation for why LRI was the only squad to have their point adjusted.

2) Although I understand some of the positions look a bit weird - the first-time champions jumping to #2, the defending champions at #14, the previous two-time finalists at #8 - I believe some of the oddities are due not only to the unexpected nature of the QWC10 results, but also the infrequency of the QWC, and subsequently the lack of a consistent set of participants. As we endeavor to hold this tournament more frequently, and maintain a sort of core group through each edition, the results and subsequent rankings will become more "regular", so to speak.

Delaclava wrote:First, congrats to Western Fardelshufflestein (that name is getting easier to type with time...) on a well-deserved QWC title! In a tournament where less active nations were more successful than usual, it is a more optimistic that a constant RPer like you managed to win it all. I personally hope we see you back for more!

Additionally, I have created a set of rankings based on performances in the past three editions, and am open to any feedback on the formula, which is based on the IBC (basketball) formula:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

With that said,

congrats to Abanhfleft for your run to the final,

thus securing the #1 ranking!

EDIT: Two notes about the rankings - one specific, one general:

1) While Liverpudlian Revolution of Ireland made the semifinals of QWC10, it was determined that they should have been removed from the tournament after completing the group stage. Thus, they were only given ranking points for their group stage wins. On the QWC10 tab, you will see the calculations for all four teams that CTE'd, as well as my explanation for why LRI was the only squad to have their point adjusted.

2) Although I understand some of the positions look a bit weird - the first-time champions jumping to #2, the defending champions at #14, the previous two-time finalists at #8 - I believe some of the oddities are due not only to the unexpected nature of the QWC10 results, but also the infrequency of the QWC, and subsequently the lack of a consistent set of participants. As we endeavor to hold this tournament more frequently, and maintain a sort of core group through each edition, the results and subsequent rankings will become more "regular", so to speak.

Thank you very much
I still need to do some RP for the last two matches...and then...
More roleplays!!!