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Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

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The Macabees
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Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:10 am

Baptism of Fire 35
Golden Throne—Uiri


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“Promoting fair and healthy competition…”


Both Uiri and the Second Empire of the Golden Throne enjoy a long history of association football. We would like to share our football culture with the world by bidding to host the Thirty-Fifth Baptism of Fire. Our aim is to offer national football teams just coming up onto the world stage a great beginning to the wonderful experience that is participating in the World Cup. Our principle goal, other than the general objective of hosting the tournament, is to foster fair play and competition. From there comes our motto—we believe that this is the key to a successful tournament. Also, it will—in some sense—indoctrinate upcoming national football teams towards a type of play which is cleaner and more entertaining to watch. In other words, our plan is to set a standard for world stage football competition of fair play. This type of example is imperative to culture successful world teams from the “Baptism of Fire and up”.

Geography: One of the main advantages to the Second Empire’s and Uiri’s bid is that the two candidate co-hosts are relatively proximate to each other geographically. Indeed, at their closest point the two are less than one thousand kilometers away from each other (Uiri and the Golden Throne are geographic neighbors). Although half of the teams will find themselves hosted at either country, it will make it easier for these teams to interact with each other, and when the time comes to host the final then the team previously playing in the opposite country will find it easy to transfer themselves to the location of the final game. Furthermore, it is relatively easy for fans to travel back and forth, given cheap airfare and seaway rates. There are near constant aerial and naval tourist assets commuting back and forth throughout the day, and fare prices tend to be incredibly low.

Football for the masses: We believe that, as a sport, football games should be viewable to the masses. Sponsor companies (the bid is completely privatized) will offer cheap ticket prices to fans, making sure that the stadiums are filled and those willing and able can watch their favorite team play during the Baptism of Fire. Furthermore, game sponsors have begun to team up with hotels and nearby motels to provide fans affordable living accommodations while they stay at either Uiri or the Golden Throne. Companies are preparing for the event by setting up a process which will lead to widespread “vertical stacking”, which effectively means that sponsors will partner up with other related industries to cut costs so that the consumer can enjoy the good (in this particular case, football and housing) at an affordable price.

Proposed Official Song of BoF35: Dreaming

Experience: The Second Empire of the Golden Throne has been the home of many tournaments, including two futsal (futbol sala) tournaments and the first Díenstad Cup. Uiri has previously hosted the Quidditch World Cup and is set to host the Second Díenstad Cup. Both nations have also hosted their own private football leagues and have the stadiums to hold the expected amount of people which will visit the tournament. For example, the Fedala Imperials’ Stadium, in the city of Fedala, is designed to hold an estimated 300,000 spectators (a total city population of roughly 150 million; there are four major football stadiums in the city, for four “major” teams—three of these are second and third division teams. All other stadiums that are earmarked for the Baptism of Fire 35 are of similar dimensions, in both the Second Empire and Uiri.

Scoring: The latest version of NSFS will be used. Scores will be provided at around 12 to 1 PM Pacific Time. Roleplay bonuses will be given. These bonuses will reflect quality over quantity. Given that no team is ranked, roleplay bonuses will have a big impact on scores. Teams that put time and effort into the tournament will be rewarded justly.

Questions? Our public relations office will be happy to answer them for you!
Last edited by The Macabees on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Liventia
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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Liventia » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:52 pm

No offence, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to trust Uiri yet until he hangs around a bit more. He was around for WC37 then disappeared until now; WC47 will be his second tournament. Also, I'm concerned by this post.

Uiri wrote:OOC: I suppose we could give you the Grass Grand Slam if you post-pone your tournament. If the Lurikastan Open shall not be part of the NIFT Masters then I request you do not use my scorinator or accept NIFT-sponsorship. TBH, I didn't think it would matter so much to you although I do understand that Delaclava did make a rather rude comment directed at you.

ICly, Uiri's player withdraws from the Lurikastan Open unless it re-enters the NIFT Masters.


Emphasis mine.

Also, concerns over both of your familiarity with NSFS. The BoF has traditionally been one new host + one established host to guide the newbie along, having two new hosts do the BoF (especially when both are still having trouble with NSFS) would be a bit sticky for me.
Last edited by Liventia on Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Macabees
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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:15 pm

In regards to my familiarity with NSFS, I used it for the first Díenstad Cup hosted on these forums, and also used it for the abortive original Díenstad Cup around a year ago (the resume file wasn't created and instead of continuing we decided to postpone the tournament). I used it to score one of my league seasons during the War of Golden Succession, and then used it for a little while to score the new season (although I postponed that until I worked out all my teams, which I plan to do during WC47). That said, I feel fairly comfortable with NSFS. I, of course, would not feel comfortable hosting the World Cup, because that takes into consideration rankings, but I've thought out the difficulties of the Baptism of Fire and I do not believe that they would pose a serious obstacle to my capability of hosting the tournament smoothly. To be honest, it's not a serious program to master (in terms of using it with the set formula) and we have no intentions of changing the formula for scoring. In any case, I am only "new" in the sense that I haven't before hosted a WCC tournament, although I would not consider myself green in regards to hosting tournaments, in general.

Now, about Uiri's comment, I don't see how that is relevant to this tournament or how that handicaps our capabilities to host the tournament. In fact, I kind of understand Uiri's position, although whether or not he has a right to disallow someone from using his scorinator is a philosophical question (I guess dealing directly with intellectual property rights). He was obviously not pleased with the fact that Lurikastan did not want to partake in the NIFT series of Masters and so "punished" Lurikastan's decision by requesting Lurikastan not to use his scorinator. I'm not sure what that has to do with football or the Baptism of Fire, or how it will effect Uiri's abilities to host. There is nothing in that scenario which could possibly pertain to the Baptism of Fire (I mean, unless we were running a non-WCC Baptism of Fire, which we are not).

About Uiri's disappearance between WC37 and WC47, I have also missed a large number of tournaments on and off, both due to personal reasons (OSUT, my stay in Spain, et cetera) but also due to the loss of interest in roleplaying. I know for a fact that this is going to effect our ability to host, because the reasons for leaving are not related to what we will do while hosting (scorinate). Besides, I feel that I could be held as a responsible host and I feel that Uiri is the same. It's true that he has not had the chance to prove himself, to date, but I feel that this would be the "proof" necessary. However, I would understand if these facts would preclude you for voting for us.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Liventia » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:23 pm

The Macabees wrote:Now, about Uiri's comment, I don't see how that is relevant to this tournament or how that handicaps our capabilities to host the tournament.

It may not be relevant to the BoF but it's a sign of how Uiri would handle conflict and not a particularly good one.

In fact, I kind of understand Uiri's position, although whether or not he has a right to disallow someone from using his scorinator is a philosophical question (I guess dealing directly with intellectual property rights).

If you've put it out into the public domain, you don't really have any more control over who uses it.

He was obviously not pleased with the fact that Lurikastan did not want to partake in the NIFT series of Masters and so "punished" Lurikastan's decision by requesting Lurikastan not to use his scorinator. I'm not sure what that has to do with football or the Baptism of Fire, or how it will effect Uiri's abilities to host.

Again, personalities. Matter of trust. I'd want WCC tournament hosts to be able to handle issues without going "omg I take this away from you".

About Uiri's disappearance between WC37 and WC47, I have also missed a large number of tournaments on and off, both due to personal reasons (OSUT, my stay in Spain, et cetera) but also due to the loss of interest in roleplaying. I know for a fact that this is going to effect our ability to host, because the reasons for leaving are not related to what we will do while hosting (scorinate).

And how are we to know that he won't disappear from the NS Sport arena again?

It's true that he has not had the chance to prove himself, to date, but I feel that this would be the "proof" necessary.

And, no offence, I would feel rather much more at ease if he proved himself with a proven host, and likewise for you, because as I said, I'm not comfortable with two people who are effectively hosting newbies doing this tournament (or the CoH), and would prefer a combination of proven host+new host.
Last edited by Liventia on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Taeshan » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:31 pm

Uiri may not have been in any of the World Cups that were in between those two, but he is around and was able to see them happen. It may merely be that he after the first one since has not been at all interested in joining up until i convinced him a few weeks ago. also the fact that he was actively involved in the dienstad cup shows that he is at least around to see what is going on. Yes, he may be inexpirienced as a re most, but he is able to do it. There is no question as to wether he can.
Champions - Copa Rushmori 22, Di Bradini Cup 19, World Baseball Classic 13, Cup of Harmony 35, World Lacrosse Championship 2, Gridiron World Championships (World Bowl 0), World Bowl 34

World Cup Qualifications-41, 44, 46, 59, 61(RoS), 62(Quarterfinals), 63 (RoS), 64 (Quarterfinals)

Hosts-Cup of Harmony 55, Copa Rushmori 14

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Liventia wrote:It may not be relevant to the BoF but it's a sign of how Uiri would handle conflict and not a particularly good one.


Emphasis mine. I don't want to push the topic, or seem hostile, but I think that any argument against the bid should be pertinent to what the bid is relevant to. Besides, any conflicts would be resolved by both Uiri and I together, as co-hosts.

If you've put it out into the public domain, you don't really have any more control over who uses it.


I'm not sure he put it out in public domain. Everything on the forum is considered copyright, unless explicitly said by the author, which is why players have been banned for copy and pasting from other players' weapon designs and other assorted posts, et cetera.

Again, personalities. Matter of trust. I'd want WCC tournament hosts to be able to handle issues without going "omg I take this away from you".


That's true, but I don't see that being an issue for any reason, especially since he is not the only host.

And how are we to know that he won't disappear from the NS Sport arena again?


Well, like I said, you don't, which is why I would understand a vote against the bid in that regard. There is probably nothing I can say to assuage your fears of this happening, although he might have a more appeasing response.

And, no offence, I would feel rather much more at ease if he proved himself with a proven host, and likewise for you, because as I said, I'm not comfortable with two people who are effectively hosting newbies doing this tournament (or the CoH), and would prefer a combination of proven host+new host.


I'd like to repeat that I am not a hosting "newbie". There is nothing different from hosting the Baptism of Fire than hosting the Díenstad Cup, except the nations playing the tournament. The method of scoring is exactly the same. I feel that you are not fairly assessing our capabilities to host, and instead basing your opinion on a preset bias towards what you consider "experience".

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Liventia » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:36 pm

Taeshan wrote:
Uiri may not have been in any of the World Cups that were in between those two, but he is around and was able to see them happen. It may merely be that he after the first one since has not been at all interested in joining up until i convinced him a few weeks ago. also the fact that he was actively involved in the dienstad cup shows that he is at least around to see what is going on. Yes, he may be inexpirienced as a re most, but he is able to do it. There is no question as to wether he can.


I've got my own judgements, and I don't need to be told how to think, thank you very much. I don't mind having a civil discussion with Mac over this but I really don't need you telling me whether or not there is a question, because in my mind there is.

If he hasn't been "at all interested in joining up" then I don't see why he should host a WCC-related tournament, really. Far as I'm concerned, I'd like to hear from him about it and not be told by you, Taeshan. I'll believe what he says.

The Macabees wrote:Emphasis mine. I don't want to push the topic, or seem hostile, but I think that any argument against the bid should be pertinent to what the bid is relevant to.

It's not about the tournament, it's about the person running it. Can I trust him to run it without acting up?

The Macabees wrote:I'd like to repeat that I am not a hosting "newbie". There is nothing different from hosting the Baptism of Fire than hosting the Díenstad Cup, except the nations playing the tournament. The method of scoring is exactly the same. I feel that you are not fairly assessing our capabilities to host, and instead basing your opinion on a preset bias towards what you consider "experience".

I'm not taking anything away from hosting the Díenstad Cup but a world championship which affects world ranks would rank higher than a regional cup, in my mind. By "experience" I'd like to see you host more than just your regional cup, because we'd never let a new nation who's hosted their small regional cup host a BoF.
Last edited by Liventia on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:46 pm

Liventia wrote:It's not about the tournament, it's about the person running it. Can I trust him to run it without acting up?


Whether you believe me or not is another question, and I would understand either way, but in my opinion yes. Not only because I have gotten to know him recently and I know that his is not hard headed nor is has he ever been hostile to me (and vice versa), but also because there is a second "check & balance" and that's the fact that I am co-host.

Ultimately though, everything that deals with him will prob. require a response from him, since he is the only one that can speak for himself.

I'm not taking anything away from hosting the Díenstad Cup but a world championship which affects world ranks would rank higher than a regional cup, in my mind. By "experience" I'd like to see you host more than just your regional cup, because we'd never let a new nation who's hosted their small regional cup host a BoF.


That's true, the Díenstad Cup doesn't effect world rankings. But, I don't think that's the question. I think what should be looked at is reliability and knowledge of use of the program. My point is that if there is a history behind the user of the program, and the history is positive then there is little reason for concern that there will be problems during the Baptism of Fire. In questions of reliability, what should be checked is the reliability itself, not what the scorer was reliable with.

For example, if one wants to get a job at a bank, the bank is not only going to be interested in reliability with other banks, but reliability with work in general. And, I believe that the situation is similar in this case.

And, there were ~40 nations which took part in the Díenstad Cup (admittedly, only a handful actually RPd, but that is 40 nations that were included in the program). There were 38 nations in this last edition of the BoF. The big difference is that there are more RPs to consider, but I don't think that is a serious issue (serious in the sense that it would make hosting considerably more difficult).
Last edited by The Macabees on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Liventia » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:48 pm

That's fine, I understand your position, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from as well. Good luck in your bid, but until I get some concrete responses from Uiri over my concerns regarding him it's going to be very hard for me to vote for this bid.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Uiri » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:33 am

Liventia wrote:No offence, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to trust Uiri yet until he hangs around a bit more. He was around for WC37 then disappeared until now; WC47 will be his second tournament. Also, I'm concerned by this post.

Uiri wrote:OOC: I suppose we could give you the Grass Grand Slam if you post-pone your tournament. If the Lurikastan Open shall not be part of the NIFT Masters then I request you do not use my scorinator or accept NIFT-sponsorship. TBH, I didn't think it would matter so much to you although I do understand that Delaclava did make a rather rude comment directed at you.

ICly, Uiri's player withdraws from the Lurikastan Open unless it re-enters the NIFT Masters.


Emphasis mine.

Also, concerns over both of your familiarity with NSFS. The BoF has traditionally been one new host + one established host to guide the newbie along, having two new hosts do the BoF (especially when both are still having trouble with NSFS) would be a bit sticky for me.


I did participate in WC40.

As for the issue with NIFT and Lurikatsan, it is my scorinator, I designed it and I don't know how much influence my comment will have. He may stop using the scorinator, he may not, if I can actually prevent him completely from using the scorinator, I don't know. It was a request not a command and anyone could potentially click the link in my sig, export the file to their comp, and using the instructions in the post linked to beside, scorinate any number of tennis matches.

I am quite familiar with NSFS, having scorinated a whole season of 15 teams and 32 games played per team and a cup to go with it. I have no doubt in Mac's ability to use NSFS.
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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Quintessence of Dust » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:01 am

Given BoF 34 has barely been completed, and there's not even been a bid, let alone a vote, for the Cup of Harmony, perhaps this bid is a little early, and people might be in a better position to judge it in a few weeks' time? There doesn't seem much point discussing activity now, given it could be a month before the BoF is actually held.
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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:09 am

Quintessence of Dust wrote:Given BoF 34 has barely been completed, and there's not even been a bid, let alone a vote, for the Cup of Harmony, perhaps this bid is a little early, and people might be in a better position to judge it in a few weeks' time? There doesn't seem much point discussing activity now, given it could be a month before the BoF is actually held.


Well, given the issues that have already arisen, perhaps it's a good thing that we presented the bid early. In any case, for those that think the bid is early, the bid can effectively be ignored and then addressed later.

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby The Macabees » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:51 am

I'd like to add that I'd probably do a pretty Wiki article like this one, too. :p

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Re: Baptism of Fire 35: Macabee & Uiric Joint-Bid

Postby Starblaydia » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:24 pm

The Macabees wrote:I'd like to add that I'd probably do a pretty Wiki article like this one, too. :p


Surely this slightly-less-pretty article is more indicative of what would come about?
Six-Time World Cup Committee President (WCs 25-33, 46-51 & 82*)
Co-host of World Cups 20, 40 & 80 • Di Bradini Cup Organiser
World Cups 30 & 63 Runner-Up • World Cup 27 Third Place • 25th Baptism of Fire Runner-Up
Six-Time AOCAF Cup Champions • Two-time U21, One-Time U18 WC Champions • Men's Football Olympic Champions, Ashford Games
Five-Time Cherry Cup Champions • 1st Quidditch World Cup Champions • WGPC8 Drivers' Champion
The Protectorate of Starblaydia
Commended by WA Security Council Resolution #40
Five-Time NS World Cup Champions (WCs 25, 28, 41, 44 & 47)

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