[TWI-ONLY] [OOC] : IFAF Western Isles Cup 2018

[Athara Magarat]

That was my fault that we have so high rated teams in MSFC. But I can't now force anyone to lower themselves.

One idea is that these ratings would be MSFC-only ratings; not IFAF ratings. I know, the ratings are one of the sore points but still, we can't enforce "lower your rating" now to anyone.

[Polar Svalbard]

I dunno, the problem is that I'd like to create a good story and it feels that the only way I can do that is to make an above average team. While I'm not out to win I don't want it to just be a foregone conclusion that I'll only be able to tell the story of one game in case I have to play against Norstham or Domanania or another team that are in the 8 and 9s.

[Corindia]

For me its not so much that I want to win, but that I want to have the reasonable potential to, because that allows for drama in the waiting. Now, as things stand, maybe the RNG gives me an underdog victory once or twice, but there's no drama in knowing that, statistically, the chances of even reaching the quarterfinals is infinitesimal. Drama in sports comes from the potential that anyone can win. It's why the Marlies don't play in the NHL and why the British leagues use consolidation.

I did look back into my own League Simulation, and 53% of the finals (31 of 58) have consisted of at least one "average" (either or both skills below 7) team and 9 games where such a team actually won the title, 15.5%. So I wouldn't say the chance of breaking out into the quarterfinals is infinitesimally small, but it is evident that the odds are pretty far from your favor. Even then, at the very least in the TWI Cup, low-skill teams will have a pretty high chance of breaking out of the group stage due to their design.

I don't think we'd see those kinds of results given how top-heavy the league's skill distribution is

[Menna Shuli]

That was my fault that we have so high rated teams in MSFC. But I can't now force anyone to lower themselves.

One idea is that these ratings would be MSFC-only ratings; not IFAF ratings. I know, the ratings are one of the sore points but still, we can't enforce "lower your rating" now to anyone.

Ah yes, here we go with AM claiming something is his fault for no reason.

It's not your fault. This was an inevitability. Without standards being set and with free reign people will always set their stats to the highest possible end of things. It's how our stats in RP always work.

You don't have to constantly act the martyr, you know. If something is your fault, you can expect people (read as: me) to call you on it.

[Menna Shuli]

I did look back into my own League Simulation, and 53% of the finals (31 of 58) have consisted of at least one "average" (either or both skills below 7) team and 9 games where such a team actually won the title, 15.5%. So I wouldn't say the chance of breaking out into the quarterfinals is infinitesimally small, but it is evident that the odds are pretty far from your favor. Even then, at the very least in the TWI Cup, low-skill teams will have a pretty high chance of breaking out of the group stage due to their design.

I don't think we'd see those kinds of results given how top-heavy the league's skill distribution is

This is very true. That sort of League simualtion result will happen if there are multiple low-tier teams. It's far less likely wth a low-tier team being an outlier, just mathematically speaking.

[Dormill and Stiura]

I dunno, the problem is that I'd like to create a good story and it feels that the only way I can do that is to make an above average team. While I'm not out to win I don't want it to just be a foregone conclusion that I'll only be able to tell the story of one game in case I have to play against Norstham or Domanania or another team that are in the 8 and 9s.

I think I came up with an answer, one that I recall you mentioning elsewhere. I’ll have to consult Orsandia to get full support, however I think it’s fair to make this a conditional requirement.

When submitting a team to qualifications, be aware that you have 15 total points to allocate between offensive and defensive skill. As of now, there will be no exceptions so treat this as a hard cap unless addressed by Verdon.

[Menna Shuli]

I dunno, the problem is that I'd like to create a good story and it feels that the only way I can do that is to make an above average team. While I'm not out to win I don't want it to just be a foregone conclusion that I'll only be able to tell the story of one game in case I have to play against Norstham or Domanania or another team that are in the 8 and 9s.

I think I came up with an answer, one that I recall you mentioning elsewhere. I’ll have to consult Orsandia to get full support, however I think it’s fair to make this a conditional requirement.

When submitting a team to qualifications, be aware that you have 15 total points to allocate between offensive and defensive skill. As of now, there will be no exceptions so treat this as a hard cap unless addressed by Verdon.

A1 solution. I am so for this. However, I would reduce the cap as low as 13 or 14. That way it is more of a trade-off to go really big in one stat: a 9 in offense means a max of 4 or 5 in defense.

[Polar Svalbard]

I am very much with Menna. Would suit my style of RP quite well and teams can still hit a good medium.

Furthermore for people who have nations that aren't much into soccer but will still send one they don't have to use all their points.

[Verdon]

I think I came up with an answer, one that I recall you mentioning elsewhere. I’ll have to consult Orsandia to get full support, however I think it’s fair to make this a conditional requirement.

When submitting a team to qualifications, be aware that you have 15 total points to allocate between offensive and defensive skill. As of now, there will be no exceptions so treat this as a hard cap unless addressed by Verdon.

I think this is one-half of the solution, and the best option right now. Let's set the cap at 14; that'll make a 7:7 the top balanced score.

The other half I'm trying to work on, and we can try it with the next tournament we do after this. I'm looking in to how leaguesimulator is actually functioning. It looks like the system works on the idea of advancing the ball up the field past defenders (duh). A team's offensive score is rolled against their opponents defense and the ball is either advanced +1, or turned over to the other team. From where the ball starts at kickoff and after goals, a team needs +4 to score (additionally, a team's goalie is at the -2 spot). Each attempt at moving the ball forward advances the clock 2 minutes.

This works, but it's not very interesting or dynamic. It seemed like there was diminishing returns when the gap between the skills of two teams got larger, however, so we don't need to be too afraid of low numbers. But it's very sterile. It understands how to score, but now how football is played. I'm gonna start working on a new engine (It's also gonna be a project for my resume, pretty much) that takes into account attacking, midfield, and defensive play in a way that's closer to how modern football is approached.

[Dormill and Stiura]

I'm gonna start working on a new engine (It's also gonna be a project for my resume, pretty much) that takes into account attacking, midfield, and defensive play in a way that's closer to how modern football is approached.

Keep us posted on this. Although I will mention the existence of xkornate, which is the general standard for nearly all NS Sports, if that might be something you wish to aim for, use, or emulate. The only reason why I haven't advocated for its use here is that it is very far from being user-friendly and the only existing tutorial I found for it doesn't cover team sports.

[Athara Magarat]

Alright, so time for me to tell MSFC nations to edit the ratings?

[Dormill and Stiura]

Alright, so time for me to tell MSFC nations to edit the ratings?

Yes

[Starblaydia]

I'm gonna start working on a new engine (It's also gonna be a project for my resume, pretty much) that takes into account attacking, midfield, and defensive play in a way that's closer to how modern football is approached.

Keep us posted on this. Although I will mention the existence of xkornate, which is the general standard for nearly all NS Sports, if that might be something you wish to aim for, use, or emulate. The only reason why I haven't advocated for its use here is that it is very far from being user-friendly and the only existing tutorial I found for it doesn't cover team sports.

Apologies for butting into your TWI thread, but Zwangzug posted a step-by-step that I found very useful when getting to grips with xkoranate for football. We also have a Scorinator Discussion Thread if you have more specific questions on how to use them. The NS Sports community is (mostly) here to help with making our little niche successful, if you'd like it.

[Agadar]

Tagging. I've had a taste of football, and want more. Will read through this thread when I have the time.

[Dormill and Stiura]

Tagging. I've had a taste of football, and want more. Will read through this thread when I have the time.

Welcome to the Isles Cup, the GFA Nationals Tournament (which will be our qualifiers) will be set up within the next week.

[Orsandia]

Evening friends,
I have been gone for a few days. Mostly because of moving back from the dorms to home, unpacking, spending time with family, etc.

On the topic of ratings of teams in the IFAF - While it may seem exciting or enticing to just give your national squad a 8/9, 9/9 , etc. team, an excessive amount of nations having elite teams just does not seem realistic. Taking that into account, I wholly endorse the efforts discussed by [nation]Dormill & Stiura[/nation] and others throughout the week of allocating a certain number of skill points per team to even out the playing field between (as Dorm mentioned) nations who are gunning for a win at all costs, and those who wish to use the tournament to tell a story, which also seems like a cool idea. 14 skill points is a reasonable cap, with 7/7 offensive/defensive coming off as the standard balanced team example. I am also throwing my weight behind this proposition. big thank you and shout out to Dorm for picking up the weight in my absence.

Host Bids - Get them in soon. We will be going over bids and posting a vote poll (Verdon, mind giving us a hand with this ?) to allow the host of the cup to be chosen. THE DEADLINE TO SUBMIT BIDS IS 6/21/18, 12:00 AM PST

Scorekeeping - since this rendition of the cup this year is much larger, and compared to last year, much more complicated, I am throwing out a call for volunteer scorekeepers to help us manage spreadsheets, scorekeeping, and related material as this tourney gets going.

Verdon - Nice to see you back in the tourney this year. I appreciate you offering feedback and assistance with the tourney. If it is okay with you, we do still need a hand gauging interest and getting the word out to all map-occupying nations in the Isles. Would you be okay with using your powers as the SoRP to getting the word out to the best of your ability within the month ?


Now that I am home for the summer (finally), I can get back to helping build something great for the Isles. Cheers Everyone !

[Verdon]

I can work on advertising with the SoRP account.
You'll have to ask someone else for the poll, as I'm the only officer who doesn't have that power.
Alternatively, a Google Form could just be set up for it and the link shared here.

[Corindia]

hey guys, I made a quick banner ad for some IFAF themed clothes to go in news posts
I used the logo from the Corindi bid but that can be pretty easily changed after the results of the vote on the bids

[Verdon]

Can we just have Corindia host because dope graphics?

[Agadar]

Just read the OP, but didn't see a template or anything. How are we doing this?

[Polar Svalbard]

D&S still hasn't set up the Gael Conference yet, once he does you can put your stuff there. If you look at the Mesder one set up by AM you'll see how it'll likely go in Gael too. Although I do believe that we'll likely be switching to a 14 point max pool.

[Corindia]

Can we just have Corindia host because dope graphics?

I mean I'll make graphics for a competing bid if asked

[Negarakita]

Me and Samu are planning a joint bid I've just been yo busy to make a logo yet

[Athara Magarat]

Frankly, I don't think there's anyone in Mesder, aside from Covonant, who has the places, budget or initiative to host the 2018 IFAF Western Isles Cup. And I don't think MSFC nations will step forward for this (prove me wrong, me fellas...)

I like Neg's joint proposal with Samu idea. Sad that DS's bid was a test not a true one.

I am all for Corindia based on dope graphics as well

[Weinam]

Weinam has the budget, initiative and places to host but will not due to ongoing political complications.