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World Grand Prix Organization: OOC Discussion Thread

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]

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The Plough Islands
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Founded: Dec 02, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Plough Islands » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 pm

Liventia wrote:ENGINES: Engine signups will be accepted to be named the spec engine supplier for smaller teams. Larger teams with a previous WGPC history will be allowed to use their own engines, fixed at the same ratings as the spec engine.

TYRES: Tyre manufacturers may sign up to be named the spec tyre supplier for smaller teams. Larger teams with a previous WGPC history will be allowed to choose their tyre manufacturer, fixed at the same ratings at the spec tyres.

The sections highlighted in red read to me like first-time team entrants would be forced to use the spec engine and tyres, which I have a couple of issues with;

1: it restricts a lot of RP avenues for potential new entrants - using alternative fuels or electric power, or entering an entirely indigenously built car, or doing anything exciting and futuristic like Nexus Racing (or, in the other direction, USS Monitor's entry last WGP2);

2: if all the tyres and all the engines are going to be entered into the scorinator as the same value, there doesn't seem to be any reason to restrict it further other than to force people to roleplay their team a certain way? I appreciate I might not be looking at this in the same way that people who've been doing this for a while might be looking at this - I've always been more of a fan of things that ended up on F1 Rejects than the sharp end of the grid - but a large part of the fun in NS Sports is the freedom to do things unconstrained by real life regulations, and the last WGP2 season explicitly endorsed this view;

Former Citizens of the Nimbus System wrote:Where the WGP2 and the WGPC differ from their real life equivalents of Formula 1 and Formula 2 is in their regulations. F1 and F2 cars are, as the names suggest, designed to a given set of rules specifying how the cars are to be constructed and outlawing things like active suspension, electronic driver aids and sticking a giant fan on the back to improve downforce. Moreover, racing drivers in the real world tend to be human. The WGP2 does not concern itself with such limitations; beyond a cap on power, so long as you can build it, it’s vaguely safe, it looks a bit like a proper racing car and you can find someone or something to drive it, it can race. This, then, is the realm of the PsyKinetic Boost, of Imagithermal Tyre Heating, of the flock of flightless birds that were taught to race. Or, you know, of unreliable internal combustion engines. Those are cool too.

Is there any possibility this could be, if not discarded, at least loosened a little for well-realised first-time entries with something different to offer?
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:10 pm

The Plough Islands wrote:1: it restricts a lot of RP avenues for potential new entrants - using alternative fuels or electric power, or entering an entirely indigenously built car, or doing anything exciting and futuristic like Nexus Racing (or, in the other direction, USS Monitor's entry last WGP2);

2: if all the tyres and all the engines are going to be entered into the scorinator as the same value, there doesn't seem to be any reason to restrict it further other than to force people to roleplay their team a certain way? I appreciate I might not be looking at this in the same way that people who've been doing this for a while might be looking at this - I've always been more of a fan of things that ended up on F1 Rejects than the sharp end of the grid - but a large part of the fun in NS Sports is the freedom to do things unconstrained by real life regulations

And from the other point of view, instead of it restricting RP avenues, it allows new entrants not to have to think about these factors and really focus on the team/driving aspect. And having restrictions on new entries is certainly not limited to the WGP series of events.

Also, having to work with a spec engine or tyres could open up new RP avenues about how teams have to adjust their plans, or have a rivalry with the manufacturer, or whatever. There's no reason why it couldn't be used as RP fodder.

The Plough Islands wrote:the last WGP2 season explicitly endorsed this view

Which is not relevant; different hosts have different ideas as to how the series should be run.

The Plough Islands wrote:Is there any possibility this could be, if not discarded, at least loosened a little for well-realised first-time entries with something different to offer?

Yes, the possibility is there for leeway if there's, in your words, something "well-realised". If it's just a random newcomer who wants their own brand of tyre or engine maker but isn't really going to RP about it, then there's no reason for them not to just have the spec and not RP about it anyway. But if a new team entry can produce a well-thought-out RP behind their own engines and tyres, I would be happy to loosen the restrictions.
Last edited by Liventia on Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:17 pm

With a WGP2 bid arriving at the WGPO's doorstep, we'll set a deadline of Midday [UTC] on Monday February 22nd for any competing bids.


A quick reminder about the WGP2 voting process:

Unlike the WGPC, WGP2's hosting is decided on by vote, with any and all entrants to the most recent WGPC season eligible to vote. Last year Nimbus ran unopposed and were awarded hosting rights with a simple 6-0 majority.

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Voting time!

If you posted at least an RP in WGPC18 you may now vote on the host of WGP2. If you did not participate in WGPC18 then you do not get a vote.

Your options are:


Send your vote to Audioslavia via telegram. Your vote may say either 'Liventia' or 'Restart'.

Deadline for voting is Midday UTC on Saturday 27th February.

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Lisander
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Postby Lisander » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:30 pm

Liventia wrote:This is a WGP2 Season 4 bid

ENGINES: Engine signups will be accepted to be named the spec engine supplier for smaller teams. Larger teams with a previous WGPC history will be allowed to use their own engines, fixed at the same ratings as the spec engine. Teams signing up with an established back-story to use non-spec engines may be permitted to do so, again fixed at the same ratings as the spec engine.

Questions welcome.


I've already voted, but since I'm planning my RP for the season, I need to ask. Provided this is a spec-series, will you publish some sort of IC guidelines about car regulations?
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:23 am

Lisander wrote:
Liventia wrote:This is a WGP2 Season 4 bid

ENGINES: Engine signups will be accepted to be named the spec engine supplier for smaller teams. Larger teams with a previous WGPC history will be allowed to use their own engines, fixed at the same ratings as the spec engine. Teams signing up with an established back-story to use non-spec engines may be permitted to do so, again fixed at the same ratings as the spec engine.

Questions welcome.


I've already voted, but since I'm planning my RP for the season, I need to ask. Provided this is a spec-series, will you publish some sort of IC guidelines about car regulations?

Basically, do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, its capabilities – at least in terms of scorination – won't exceed the spec engine.

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Lisander
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Postby Lisander » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:44 pm

Liventia wrote:Basically, do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, its capabilities – at least in terms of scorination – won't exceed the spec engine.


I feel this is a bit vague, to be honest. Especially if we're talking about a spec-series, where all the cars are supposed to be on the same level. I understand the idea of "freedom to choose" though.

For information purposes: In my mind, for example, the Nexus cars are like, and sound a lot like Formula E. For my part, I like the real thing. For my part, I like the realism of modern-day Formulae, with their hybrid engines, turbos, the construction of the cars and everything else.

So my approach is more realistic (which I believe is similar for much of the class), and at each start of the season, my first post is always a team guide, where I list my posts in case I need to return to them to read some information. In addition, I post information about the team itself and the car.

It may not do any good in the end, but to serve perhaps as a guide for those who, like me, don't have much patience to think in detail about futuristic specifics, I'm posting here the most recent RL Formula 2 specs. I will use them for my car (with applicable brand replacements, of course, if my team is accepted) and if anyone is interested in the idea or even roleplaying as a "customer team", they can use the same specs.

Your insight into the F2 2020 car specifications

Dimensions
Overall length: 5224 mm
Overall width: 1900 mm
Overall height: 1097 mm (including FOM roll hoop camera)
Wheelbase: 3135 mm
Overall weight: 755 kg (driver on-board)

Engine
V6 - 3.4 litre single turbo charged Mecachrome engine.
Rated to 620 HP @ 8750 rpm.
Fly by wire accelerator system.
Rebuild after 8000 km.
Maximum Torque 570 Nm @ 6000 rpm.

Performance
Acceleration: 0 - 100 km/h, 2.90 sec
Acceleration: 0 - 200 km/h, 6.60 sec
Maximum speed: 335 km/h (Monza aero configuration + DRS)
Max. braking deceleration -3.5 G
Max. lateral acceleration +/- 3.9 G

Safety standards
Full FIA F1 2017 safety standards.
Titanium Halo F1 specification.

Monocoque and Bodywork
Survival cell - Sandwich Carbon/aluminium honeycomb structure/Zylon anti-intrusion panels made by Dallara.
Front and rear wing - Carbon structures made by Dallara.
Bodywork - Carbon - Kevlar honeycomb structures made by Dallara.

DRS
Same functionality of DRS used in Formula One.
Hydraulic activation.

Gearbox
6-speed longitudinal Hewland sequential gearbox.
Electro-hydraulic command via paddle shift from steering wheel.
ZF SACHS Carbon clutch.
No on-board starter.
Non hydraulic ramp differential.

Fuel cell
FIA Standard.
Premier FT5 125 litres.

Electronic features
Magneti Marelli Marvel SRG 480 ECU/GCU including data logging system.
Magneti Marelli PDU 12-42 power supply management unit.
CAN data acquisition pre-equipment.
Beacon receiver.
F1 type VSC & Marshalling system.

Suspension
Double steel wishbones, pushrod operated, twin dampers and torsion bars suspension (F) and spring suspension (R).
Adjustable ride height, camber and toe.
Two way (F) / Four way (R) adjustable Koni dampers.
Adjustable anti-roll bar (Front/Rear).

Brakes
6 pistons monobloc Brembo callipers.
Carbone Industry carbon-carbon brake discs and pads.

Wheels and tyres
New 18 inches rims introduced in 2020.
O.Z. Racing magnesium rims.
18” x 12” front wheel dimension.
18” x 13.7” rear wheel dimension.
F2 specific Pirelli slick / wet tyres.
TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System).

Steering system
Non-assisted rack and pinion steering system.
XAP steering wheel with dashboard, gear change, clutch and DRS paddles, marshalling & VSC display.

Camera equipment
Roll hoop, nose cone and face shot camera pre-equipment.
Last edited by Lisander on Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:13 am

Lisander wrote:
Liventia wrote:Basically, do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, its capabilities – at least in terms of scorination – won't exceed the spec engine.


I feel this is a bit vague, to be honest. Especially if we're talking about a spec-series, where all the cars are supposed to be on the same level. I understand the idea of "freedom to choose" though.

I'm never going to be able to please everyone, ultimately. The original plan was for a full-spec series, but at least three users – both new to WGPC and existing – said they did not want their RP freedom to be constrained, despite this ostensibly being a series for new users where the fewer choice they have, the easier it is for them to get involved.

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Togonistan
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Postby Togonistan » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:55 am

In the past seasons, it has been generally agreed on that WGP2 cars have about 85-90% of the power of a WGPC car. As much as I would also like to have WGP2 engine specifications set in stone IC-ly and have the season be more realistic in that matter, we also have to understand that this is NS after all. With that in mind, it might be best to just take that vague 85-90% rule as a guideline when writing out IC information about our engines, to keep all the but I want my car to be powered by a hamster wheel type of users happy as well.

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Lisander
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Postby Lisander » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:57 am

Liventia wrote:I'm never going to be able to please everyone, ultimately. The original plan was for a full-spec series, but at least three users – both new to WGPC and existing – said they did not want their RP freedom to be constrained, despite this ostensibly being a series for new users where the fewer choice they have, the easier it is for them to get involved.


Sorry for the rudeness, but I think whoever is doing this, no matter who it is, is being disrespectful to the host. As long as you are taking your time and patience to run this series, we should comply with your rules, not the opposite. If I don't like what you decided, I don't join. Why it couldn't be this simple?

Togonistan wrote:In the past seasons, it has been generally agreed on that WGP2 cars have about 85-90% of the power of a WGPC car. As much as I would also like to have WGP2 engine specifications set in stone IC-ly and have the season be more realistic in that matter, we also have to understand that this is NS after all. With that in mind, it might be best to just take that vague 85-90% rule as a guideline when writing out IC information about our engines, to keep all the but I want my car to be powered by a hamster wheel type of users happy as well.


It just pushes the problem to a different dimension: So a WGP2 car have 90% of a WGPC car. So how much power has a WGPC car? I seriously agree that our engine specifications should be enforced.
Last edited by Lisander on Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Principality of Lisander
a sports loving, very highly developed nation.

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:03 am

A little late, the results are as follows:

Liventia: 6
Restart: 1

Liventia is therefore granted the rights to host the upcoming WGP2 season!

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Triren
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Founded: Aug 26, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

WGP2 Question

Postby Triren » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:58 pm

Hello,

I am new to the WGPC series. I am wondering that in order to compete in WGP2 the driver had to competed in WGP3 at some point or can I just have a driver compete in like a local series within their home nation or something similar?

Thank you,
Triren

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Liventia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Liventia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:00 pm

Triren wrote:Hello,

I am new to the WGPC series. I am wondering that in order to compete in WGP2 the driver had to competed in WGP3 at some point or can I just have a driver compete in like a local series within their home nation or something similar?

Thank you,
Triren

WGP3 refers to local or national series anyway. There is no requirement that a driver have any prior experience in WGP events.

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The Sherpa Empire
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:52 pm

Lisander wrote:
Liventia wrote:I'm never going to be able to please everyone, ultimately. The original plan was for a full-spec series, but at least three users – both new to WGPC and existing – said they did not want their RP freedom to be constrained, despite this ostensibly being a series for new users where the fewer choice they have, the easier it is for them to get involved.


Sorry for the rudeness, but I think whoever is doing this, no matter who it is, is being disrespectful to the host. As long as you are taking your time and patience to run this series, we should comply with your rules, not the opposite. If I don't like what you decided, I don't join. Why it couldn't be this simple?


There is nothing inappropriate about discussing the merits and downsides of a bid, especially as this happened before host voting took place, which is the appropriate time to bring up such concerns.

It's one thing to say the host has final say over how the series works once it is underway, or once a bid has been approved. It's something else to say that a host bid which hasn't been approved yet is the final word, and that people should not question a prospective host during the bidding process. Even if someone has hosted before, a bid that hasn't been voted on yet is still just a bid.
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Lisander
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Postby Lisander » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:30 pm

The Sherpa Empire wrote:There is nothing inappropriate about discussing the merits and downsides of a bid, especially as this happened before host voting took place, which is the appropriate time to bring up such concerns.

It's one thing to say the host has final say over how the series works once it is underway, or once a bid has been approved. It's something else to say that a host bid which hasn't been approved yet is the final word, and that people should not question a prospective host during the bidding process. Even if someone has hosted before, a bid that hasn't been voted on yet is still just a bid.


Yet it was the only bid that appeared and was already submitted to the appreciation of the voters, having been approved by a landslide. I haven't said that people should not question a prospective host. I said that's disrespectful to the logic envisioned by the host, and I keep the belief that the host shouldn't change its plans if the "alternative" is a messy and unrealistic solution like the one that Liventia had to resort.
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Twicetagram and JYPe
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Twicetagram and JYPe » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:56 am

Are there any rules regarding(or banning) the ability to participate in WGPC/WGP2 with a main nation and a puppet? Asking for clarification

Screw it found my answer
Last edited by Twicetagram and JYPe on Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Caleonia
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Postby Caleonia » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:16 pm

Maybe I’ll use this as a launching pad to use this site more... Seems interesting, just gotta not go too crazy.
Caleon Sports-Daily: J.D. Hamlin may have dominated the day, but Ryan once again charges late to become the first 2-time winner of the 2034 season.

The NationStates country of motorsports, with a dash of Hatsune Miku to back it up. Can’t just use one selling point, you know? Also the IC flag is just pink instead of a driver. Also, Happy 3rd Birthday to Caleon!
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TJUN-ia
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Postby TJUN-ia » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:18 pm

Caleonia wrote:Maybe I’ll use this as a launching pad to use this site more... Seems interesting, just gotta not go too crazy.


Welcome back to the site, hope you enjoy your stay!
4th: WBC50, IBC31
Quarterfinals: IAC9, ARWC1, RLWC19, IBC30, ARWC2, WB41, IAC12
Ro16: BoF71, CoH77, WBC49, IACX, IAC11, DBC49, WCoH42, DBC50
Ro32: CoH78, CoH79
Other: Bowl Winners (AVBF6)
NSSCRA - Jaguar Racing: #07 Michael Stefan (2 Wins)/#64 Alfonso Mercado/#03 Maddison Riley-Jones (S10 T2 Champion/3 T2 Wins)
WGPC: #11 Lane Carter
NSTT: 3 Singles Titles (2 Runners-up)/1 Doubles Title (1 Runner-up)

UN - You all know what this is (U1)
TJUN (Ta-Jun) - An organ of the UN that focuses on "international role-play" (i.e. USA = Fang the Sniper) (U2)
TJUN-ia (Ta-Jun-ee-a) - The testing grounds of TJUN members, but operates as an independent nation. (U3)

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Caleonia
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Postby Caleonia » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:35 pm

I’ve been using it for a while, just not for role play.
Caleon Sports-Daily: J.D. Hamlin may have dominated the day, but Ryan once again charges late to become the first 2-time winner of the 2034 season.

The NationStates country of motorsports, with a dash of Hatsune Miku to back it up. Can’t just use one selling point, you know? Also the IC flag is just pink instead of a driver. Also, Happy 3rd Birthday to Caleon!
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
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Laka Strolistandiler
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Laka Strolistandiler » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:13 pm

Questions: can my car be a six-wheeler? Can it have a BT46 type of vacuum for additional downforce? Can I cover the wheels to increase the aerodynamics? Can I use mass demphers, active suspension and aerodynamics that will turn my car’s slipstream into a turbulent airflow? (And some other stuff banned by the retards in the FIA IRL).
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:55 am

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:Questions: can my car be a six-wheeler?

Yes.

Can it have a BT46 type of vacuum for additional downforce? Can I cover the wheels to increase the aerodynamics? Can I use mass demphers, active suspension and aerodynamics that will turn my car’s slipstream into a turbulent airflow? (And some other stuff banned by the retards in the FIA IRL).

There are only two general rules to follow here:
(1) Whatever you RP needs to be conducive for everyone in the series (as ultimately decided on by me as the host) – WGPC/WGP2 is an extremely collaborative RP;
(2) Regardless of how you RP your cars, none of it will directly affect the results being scorinated except through RP bonus (or penalties or lack thereof). You might RP your car as having rockets and still come last.
Last edited by Liventia on Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Former Citizens of the Nimbus System
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Former Citizens of the Nimbus System » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:32 am

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:Questions: can my car be a six-wheeler? Can it have a BT46 type of vacuum for additional downforce? Can I cover the wheels to increase the aerodynamics? Can I use mass demphers, active suspension and aerodynamics that will turn my car’s slipstream into a turbulent airflow?.

I think I'm in a good place to add context to Liventia's answers; this is my car from the last WGPC season!

Image

Go absolutely wild.
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Lord Business: Exactly: a bunch of weird, dorky stuff that ruined my perfectly good stuff!
Emmet: Okay. What I see are people, inspired by each other and by you - people taking what you made and making something new out of it.

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Caleonia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Caleonia » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 am

Oh yeah I have to come up with a model for this bad boy don’t I
Caleon Sports-Daily: J.D. Hamlin may have dominated the day, but Ryan once again charges late to become the first 2-time winner of the 2034 season.

The NationStates country of motorsports, with a dash of Hatsune Miku to back it up. Can’t just use one selling point, you know? Also the IC flag is just pink instead of a driver. Also, Happy 3rd Birthday to Caleon!
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Aboveland
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Postby Aboveland » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:19 am

As a word of advice, however, hold off of investing time in designing your cars until Liventia reveals who's getting the team slots.
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Former Citizens of the Nimbus System
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Postby Former Citizens of the Nimbus System » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:10 am

Caleonia wrote:Oh yeah I have to come up with a model for this bad boy don’t I

Aboveland wrote:As a word of advice, however, hold off of investing time in designing your cars until Liventia reveals who's getting the team slots.

Alternatively, don't worry about it at all! Designing and creating your own car and livery is, at least for me, a fulfilling process - but it might not be your cup of tea, which is fine too! It's certainly not a necessity; just writing an imaginative description will do much of the same, if you prefer that type of work/expression!
Last edited by Former Citizens of the Nimbus System on Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
We are the Nexus Wardship of Former Citizens of the Nimbus System, not just a collection of people; please shorten to the pre-title or use the full name!

Emmet: You might see a mess -
Lord Business: Exactly: a bunch of weird, dorky stuff that ruined my perfectly good stuff!
Emmet: Okay. What I see are people, inspired by each other and by you - people taking what you made and making something new out of it.

The central Nimban cultural ideal summed up in an exchange from The Lego Movie.

Supporter of the campaign to add Economic Freedom to the home page!

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