IBC Discussion Thread (OOC, V2)

[Lisander]

Once I find suitable successors, I will be relinquishing my role as the organizer of the IUBC. I would like to thank Buyan and Falconfar for allowing me to carry on the legacy of the competition for the past several years. I thought I did a fairly mediocre job at the least especially allowing the competition to be dormant during the times I was away from NS (as The Royal Barangay/Sangti, Aji no Moto, and finally Filindostan). Also, I cannot do anything right now aside from posting text walls as my computer has been broken for a while. Despite that, I enjoyed my time and appreciated all the nations/users who sent their entries.

Please send a TG to my main nation as of writing (Filindostan) for anyone who are interested in being the curator of the IUBC from its 21st edition and maybe beyond. I would want to handover the running to the IUBC to at least two users to ensure continuity of the competition in case one or the other steps away from NS.

Thank you all for the support.

Addendum: I'll update the post-IUBC XX rankings once my PC has been fixed. I have difficulties doing it on mobile and I don't want to jeopardize my job accessing non-work related sites on my work laptop.

I'd like to offer myself. I have a lot of interest in basketball. Yet, being honest, I believe some people won't think I'm reliable enough. I still have moments when I lose track of things, mostly due to work and college. It happened more than once, but I honestly hope and keep working in order for this not happen again. So, based on this and considering what Filindo written right above, I'm searching a co-host to support me on this. Please TG me or send me a Discord DM if you're interested in partner with me for running IUBC.

[Cassadaigua]

Meant to sign up. Didn't.
But if those who did sign up will wonder what happened to us, this is the official story

[Northwest Kalactin]

Well, after a talk on the discord last morning over the current basketball scorinator XML code, and some research on the xkoranate program, I think it might be good to create an alternate formula that supports Home Court Advantage, Style Mods and NBA Scoring, which the current formula lacks. (Yes, there is a formula for NBA scoring that I created, although it lacks style mods and HCA, and had some results in my invitational that worried me a bit.)

This formula is in the NSFS Paradigm, which offers much more functionality compared to the xkoranate-H2H paradigm, which was originally made for the Olympics, so it never needed to HFA or Style Mods, because those have never been a part of the games (Bar the XIII Olympiad, although those Games did not use style mods for events outside in NSFS or SQIS paradigms.)

Basically, the way NSFS calculates a score is it gives each team a number of attacks based on skill and other user set parameters. It then finds the probability of a goal (pGoal for coding purposes), and then generates the score based off of that. After, it applies style mods based on how the user set them, but not so much that it can change the results of a W/D/L.

The formula for getting the amount of attacks is:

Code: Select all

attacks = ((baseAttacksSuperior + ((skill - oppSkill) * attackCoeffSuperior)) * attackMultiplier

This means that the amount of attacks between a 15 skill team and a 10 skill team in the Soccer formula is:

Code: Select all

attacks = ((10 + ((15 - 10) * 10)) * 1

This means that the amount of attacks will be equal to 60 for the team with 15 skill
Now to find the pGoal we use this formula:

Code: Select all

1 - (bast + rankDiffModifier * (pow(oppSkill * rankCoeff, rankScalar) - (pow(skill * rankCoeff, rankScalar))) / (baseAttackCoeff + homeAdvantage)

So the 15 skill team will use this formula

Code: Select all

1 - (580 + 12 * (pow(10 * 31.5, 0.5) - (pow(15 * 31.5, 0.5))) / (667.5 + 7.5)

Since a team in the EPL scores around 1.52 goals per game, this means they are scoring on 1.5 of their 60 attacks. This means that they are scoring on 2.5% of attacks, so the pGoal is likely around there.

I have not attempted to accurately calculate the pGoal, although this is just how the NSFS formula calculates the pGoal on any given attack.

But how do we apply this to basketball?

Well, considering that the home team will score 1.52 goals on average in the NSFS formula, and an NBA team scores around 110 points per game, we want to make 105 our base number to get to, because of HCA and the style mod distribution likely being higher for most teams than not. Since teams in the normal formula look to be scoring on 2.5% of attacks, we need to find how many attacks we need to get to 105.

Since 4200*0.025=105, we need approximately 4200 attacks to get to where we want to be, but how do we get there? Unlike other paradigms, there is no option where we can set an amount of attacks automatically per team, so we need to find the percentage increase in the score. There is a 6900% increase in the amount of points scored, so therefore, our baseattacks should be 6900% higher than we had before. In this case, we need to set the number of attacks per team to around 700 because we will have an increase of about 6900%.

Here is the code for it. I have not tested it yet, although will get around to it as soon as I can.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<sport version="0.3">
	<name>Basketball—NSFS formula</name>
	<discipline>Basketball</discipline>
	<event>NSFS formula</event>
	<scorinator /> <!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->
	
	<paradigm>nsfs</paradigm>
	<paradigmOptions>
		<double type="homeAdvantage">7.5</double>
		<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>
		<double type="etAttackCoeff">0.333333333333</double>
		<double type="goldenGoalProb">0.4</double>
                <double type="pointValues">1</double>
		<double type="attackCoeffs">1</double>
		<list type="tiebreakers">
			<string>extratime</string>
		</list>
		<list type="tiebreakerNames">
			<string>AET</string>
		</list>
		
		<!-- NSFS parameters -->
		<double type="baseAttackCoeff">667.5</double>
		<double type="rankDiffModifier">12</double>
		<double type="rankCoeff">31.5</double>
		<double type="rankScalar">0.5</double>
		<double type="baseAttackSuccessThreshold">580</double>
		<int type="baseAttacksSuperior">700</int>
		<int type="baseAttacksInferior">700</int>
		<double type="attackCoeffSuperior">10</double>
		<double type="attackCoeffInferior">0</double>
		<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffA">2.0991677816057</double>
		<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffB">1.2442581729602</double>
		<double type="NSFSStyleExponent">-0.42705203296846</double>
		<double type="NSFSStyleOffset">0.072435335725325</double>
		<string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">GF</string>
		<string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">GA</string>
		<string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">GD</string>
	</paradigmOptions>
	
	<!-- the style modifier distribution is a bit wonky because negative modifiers are less likely to take effect -->
	<dataPoints name="style">
		<dataPoint pos="0">-3</dataPoint>
		<dataPoint pos="0.4">-1</dataPoint>
		<dataPoint pos="0.5">0</dataPoint>
		<dataPoint pos="0.65">0</dataPoint>
		<dataPoint pos="1">3</dataPoint>
	</dataPoints>
</sport>

[Sarzonia]

I don't really understand why NBA scoring and NBA rules would be necessary for a tournament that is modeled after the FIBA World Cup, which uses international rules that we've been RPing under.

I agree with supporting home court advantage and style mods, but NBA scoring is not really a priority in my book.

That said, if the stats bear out that scoring in a IBC is noticeably lower across the board than it should be by all rights, then I'd be open to adopting it.

[Filindostan]

--snip--

I tried to have a go at the xml file and it gave me very unrealistic scores, with the final standings looking like this:

Point Five 140–33 Zero
One 173–15 Zero
One 187–32 Zero

  Test                   Pld     W    L     GF    GA    GD    Pts 
1 One                    400   389   11  49941 24416 +25525   1167
2 Point Seventy Five     400   303   97  45388 28840 +16548    909
3 Point Five             400   205  195  40039 34096 +5943    615
4 Point Twenty Five      400   103  297  33521 40993 −7472    309
5 Zero                   400     0  400  16940 57484 −40544      0

You can find the source here.

Also, the existing xkoranate sport file would have to be edited to allow both formulas into xkoranate:


Some constants like the threshold can be updated in the xml file, but the solution really is to create a new paradigm for the basketsim formula, which can only be done by recompiling the code. Though there have been some blockers on the ability to compile the code at the moment.

Alternative formulas would be welcome as it allows users to choose how scores are generated close to their liking.

[Rwekazaland]

My team went 1-9.
wow

[Drawkland]

My team went 1-9.
wow

It happens, man! Don't worry, if you come back next IBC you'll be better.

Listen, I only had 2 wins in my first IBC tournament, and by now I've won the whole thing twice

[Sarzonia]

Listen, I only had 2 wins in my first IBC tournament, and by now I've won the whole thing twice

I can't relate to that. I won the title my first time out!

[Drawkland]

Listen, I only had 2 wins in my first IBC tournament, and by now I've won the whole thing twice

I can't relate to that. I won the title my first time out!

Come on old timer, when you debuted there were only 8 ranked nations even participating!

[Kriegiersien]

Ah, the good old days when someone could win the World Cup title by knocking down an old woman on her rollator.

That was easy

[Sarzonia]

I can't relate to that. I won the title my first time out!

Come on old timer, when you debuted there were only 8 ranked nations even participating!

ok zoomer

[Drawkland]

Come on old timer, when you debuted there were only 8 ranked nations even participating!

ok zoomer

You got me there!

By the way, do you prefer your walker with or without the tennis balls on the bottom?

[Rwekazaland]

My team went 1-9.
wow

It happens, man! Don't worry, if you come back next IBC you'll be better.

Listen, I only had 2 wins in my first IBC tournament, and by now I've won the whole thing twice

Thanks for the advice..

[Sarzonia]

ok zoomer

You got me there!

By the way, do you prefer your walker with or without the tennis balls on the bottom?

Nah. I like spikes so I can impale whippersnappers troublemakers like you.

[Drawkland]

You got me there!

By the way, do you prefer your walker with or without the tennis balls on the bottom?

Nah. I like spikes so I can impale whippersnappers troublemakers like you.

Seems to have worked this time around!

[Graintfjall]

Thanks to everyone for participating. I was very pleased with the level of participation, 178 posts and about 2/3rds rostered up is a great whack. Congrats to

Banija

and I hope everyone had fun.

If you have 5 minutes, here is an anonymous feedback form with only 3 questions.

[Rwekazaland]

When is The next IBC?

[Omerica]

Thank you to Graint for a well-run Championship. Congratulations to the champions and the other Championship medallists.

Also, I apologise that Omerica’s return to the IBC did not feature any RPing. Margaret’s reasons for elevating the Basketball Gryphons to the knockouts will forever remain a mystery. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Drawkland]

When is The next IBC?

That's up to the IBC president, but that'll probably be in a couple months. There's no definite timeline, but we'll probably wait until the World Cup cycle is completed.

[Sarzonia]

Congrats to Banija on the unbeaten run to the title, and great job to the hosts!

Can't wait to see the new ranks!

[Drawkland]

Thanks to everyone for participating. I was very pleased with the level of participation, 178 posts and about 2/3rds rostered up is a great whack. Congrats to

Banija

and I hope everyone had fun.

If you have 5 minutes, here is an anonymous feedback form with only 3 questions.

Excellently hosted tournament! The little extra things were a great addition, in my opinion. I'd love if future IBCs had those as well, but obviously not having them won't be a dealbreaker.

Congrats to Banija on the unbeaten run to the title, and great job to the hosts!

Can't wait to see the new ranks!

Your wish is my command! The IBC ranks are now UPDATED! Now we have a solid top two, three close behind, then a little cliff to the rest of the top 10. After that it's the slow curve to the bottom.

I'll be interested to see how the next IBC turns out! I'm also interested in the possibility of an updated basketball scorination file, but it's not a massive priority in my mind. I can take it or leave it ... plus it'll take a lot of shuffling around to make stuff work.

[Newmanistan]

Banija, congratulations on your title! Excellent hosting job here as well.

The skills competition was a nice idea, just misplaced in the schedule, in my opinion. I would rather see it at the midway point of the group stage.

[Graintfjall]

The skills competition was a nice idea, just misplaced in the schedule, in my opinion. I would rather see it at the midway point of the group stage.

In hindsight I agree. My concern going in was the "hockey stick" nature of the rankings. I thought if I placed it too early, it would be too dominated by higher ranked nations, and that lower ranked would not have enough time to earn enough RP bonus to be competitive. For the overall tournament that's fair but for an individual contest, I wanted competitors from lower ranked nations to be competitive. As it happened the tournament featured much more RPing than I'd expected and plenty of low ranked nations had accrued some RP bonus by halfway. If I ran such a thing again, I'd definitely place it earlier.

[Newmanistan]

The skills competition was a nice idea, just misplaced in the schedule, in my opinion. I would rather see it at the midway point of the group stage.

In hindsight I agree. My concern going in was the "hockey stick" nature of the rankings. I thought if I placed it too early, it would be too dominated by higher ranked nations, and that lower ranked would not have enough time to earn enough RP bonus to be competitive. For the overall tournament that's fair but for an individual contest, I wanted competitors from lower ranked nations to be competitive. As it happened the tournament featured much more RPing than I'd expected and plenty of low ranked nations had accrued some RP bonus by halfway. If I ran such a thing again, I'd definitely place it earlier.

As a top ranked nation, it would not be a problem to me if the skills competition did not use initial ranks, and only the RP bonuses accumulated to that point.

[International Basketball Organization]

Hello, basketball fans! Your IBO President here with some news about the current IBO Committee. Here is the current IBO Committee after taking into account potential additions and removals.

Abanhfleft/Pridnestrovia
Banija
Cassadaigua
Delaclava
Drawkland
Equestrian States
Filindostan/Hispinas
Free Republics
Graintfjall
Kita-Hinode
Kriegiersien
Lisander/Artisan Republic
Newmanistan
Northwest Kalactin
Qasden
Royal Kingdom of Quebec
Sarzonia
Terre Septentrionale
Valanora

There are five new inductees into the IBO Committee, all five having earned their places in the Committee by posting both a roster and at least one RP in the previous edition. Welcome to our five new inductees!

Graintfjall
Kriegiersien
Northwest Kalactin
Sarzonia
Terre Septentrionale

The following nations will be admitted into the IBO Committee if they post a roster and RP in IBC 31:

Central Shaneville
Chromatika
Hebitaka
Indusse
Juvencus
Kohnhead
Nova Anglicana
Rwekazaland
Sannyamathland
Squidroidia
TJUN-ia
Trolleborg
Vykta

These nations will be removed from the IBO Committee if they do not post a roster in IBC 31:

Cassadaigua
Delaclava
Free Republics

No nations have been removed from IBO Committee for not having posted a roster in IBC 30.

Also, in an announcement that has been two IBCs in the making, by the power vested in me as IBO President, I am hereby appointing Filindostan as IBO Vice President.

---

SIGNUPS FOR IBC 31 ARE NOW OPEN.