International Marching Arts Association [Official Thread]

[Drawkland]

We have several ties today:

• The Wind of Change and the Sadeg Spartans are tied for Best Percussion, since The Wind of Change has a higher overall score, the record goes to them. The Spartans' score will be listed in ORANGE as well to denote the tie.
• The Sadeg Spartans and the Diamond Delta tied for 2nd place. The corps with the higher General Effect score is listed as the tie breaker. The General Effect score is Music GE+Visual GE, as would be expected.

This reminds me, another thing the "Beta Committee" for the IMAA will have to discuss is how to work out tiebreakers in Overall Scores, Record Scores, and Competition Caption Scores.

So here's what the Committee is slated to work on once it gets going:

1. Election of Officers
2. Committee Membership Qualifications
3. Roles of Officers
4. Organization of IMAA circuits
5. How to Qualify competitions
6. How to deal with Ties and other scoring issues
7. Anything else we think to include

I'd expect all this to be in the Constitution/Conventional Document for the IMAA. It's listed in number order because that's the order I'd hope to go in as far as discussion and decision-making goes. Of course, we could deviate, and ideally it won't matter the order because it'll all get done, but this is for ease of organization and preparedness' sake.

[International Marching Arts Association]

Here is the Baptism of Rhythm IC thread. It's now over, congrats to Xhay for the win and commiserations to everyone else.

SO, I will go through and update all the listings again (records, history, corps scores, rankings, and links to corps information tbf tomorrow afternoon). Afterwards, there will be a 2-3 week break between now and the signups for the IMAA Championships opening up. My actual nation (Drawkland) is about to start a minor tournament so I don't want to have to operate 2 at once.

Unless someone wants to submit a bid for the World Finals, but I don't find that terribly likely.

So, until then.

[International Marching Arts Association]

As it seems we've had an ample break, and that there's not several major tournaments going on at once right now, I figure it's time for signups for the First IMAA Championships to begin.

I will write up a signup thread by the end of the week. Comments appreciated.

[Drawkland]

Signups for the IMAA World Championships!

I figure it wouldn't matter if I posted it a few days earlier than I expected. More time to garner signups, really.

[International Marching Arts Association]

As of now, we have 8 confirmed corps, and 1 pending on fixing skill level. For this to be an effective finals, I'd like at least another 2 users to join the competition, more if possible. Right now there's only 6 people, and I'd prefer there to be more. Considering there's been over a dozen different nations who've participated in any competitions, there's potential for a lot more corps to participate!

Again, I wanted to shoot for 20+ corps but as it stands now I'm highly doubting we'll achieve this number. Either way, we need more, and that's what's important right now.

Posting this here, as I'm sure there's a few interested nations in this thread who would be interested.

Remember, participating in this competition (it is the Season Finale/Championships) if you've participated in another before is grounds for being on the Beta Committee. So if you're interested in that you can't miss out on this.

[Drawkland]

IC Thread for the First IMAA Championships, if anyone who missed out still wants to check it.

[Drawkland]

Here you can view the awards for the First IMAA Championships! Congrats to the winning corps on being the first in (hopefully) a long, prestigious line of corps.

So, this all means the First Circuit of the IMAA has concluded. And that means we have to talk about where this organization is going. And by we, I mean me talking to myself and a bunch of people lurking, apparently.

First off, here's the people eligible to be in the Beta Committee, as promised:

Eligible Nations:

• Drawkland
• Xhayparia
• Kaboomlandia
• Zlevecky
• Alphatheta
• Arcantova

In order of when they qualified, if that matters.

So here's the deal with the IMAA, and just drum corps on NS Sports in general. This will be the main talking points of the Beta Committee, if it ever happens.

There's not a whole lot of RP. If this amount of RP happened in a major NS Sport competition, they'd likely lynch the host for sucking or the president for picking a bad time to start. Fortunately for me, I appear to be in both of these positions. However, the average amount of RP happens to be floating around 25% participation, which is actually pretty decent proportionally, but that's because we're only drawing like 10 corps per competition.

Now, that's not a bad thing. I quite like having a number around 10, because this is both easy to deal with as far as scorination and recordkeeping goes (each corps adds about 5-10 minutes in total workload each, which is a lot), and also a number good for both IC-type scoring and RL competitions. I would like to have more, though. Like, having a class system, or something, based on either nation's experience or specified corps size. But honestly, as long as it stays around 10 per, I'm satisfied.

At the same time, it presents a few questions. One, why is there not much interest? Well, that's pretty easy to answer, but the problem is finding which one is more right.
1) Nation doesn't want to join because it's another potential RP obligation and ain't nobody got time fo dat. I get that. The World Cup/Olympics/Whatever is probably has more priority than this drum corps thing, I get that. People know you're cool if you qualify for the World Cup. People go "what" when you say you won a drum corps competition. I'm fine with that, and there's not much we can do the prevent that, besides making the IMAA a bigger-name organization, but that sorta falls under the "have experience before you can get experience" umbrella.
2) Nation doesn't know much at all about drum corps, and/or maybe doesn't expect to have much fun with the experience. I've tried to remedy this by explaining it in signup OPs, but maybe that isn't clear enough. Perhaps links to really cool drum corps shows would also be good, but I assume it'll eventually fall under "nation doesn't care that much about it." So it really just becomes whether or not somebody is willing to learn up, another thing I - and we - can't really control.
3) Nation is confused/put off by signup process. This can't really be remedied. I've already simplified it as much as I could. I guess the extra level of effort above just typing "in" is enough to curb a lot of people. Maybe not. But I feel like this is an issue, but it can't ever be fixed because this is sorta essential to scorination. So a moot point, I suppose.
4) Nation thinks drum corps/marching band is boring/stupid. Another thing that can't really be fixed because it's a matter of perspective. Eye of the beholder, I guess.

I'm assuming the lack of activity is a combination of the above. I don't really know what to do about this. Again, though, I'm fine with the amount of members we currently draw in. It's just the problems of very little RP that is the issue, and this can be directly linked to not having many participants.

And so there's the other thing about RP. There's only 3, really 2 (since not many RP after the finals), opportunities to RP in a normal competition. The World Champs were different, with 3 chances, for that very reason. And I suppose that's the problem - it's too short to be really active or fun or involving. That's why I want to use Arcantova's idea for a multiple-venue/tour competition for next circuit (see below). With anywhere from 3-8 competitions, this leaves potentially 6-16 chances to RP. The more time you have to RP, the more likely you are to say "ah, screw it, I might as well post something on there. Or not. There's never 100% RPing in ANY event. But personally I think it'll help us, at least.

But that brings the question of next circuit. I'm certainly interested, but here's the thing. We need more participants, more chances to RP, and preferably, more hosts. I'm willing to host things, but I hosted 4/5 competitions this circuit (even if one of them was a regional one). I'm not all for another circuit if I'm gonna have to host the vast majority of competitions. I'll give anyone who can show a basic understanding of math/scorination/BBCode/spreadsheet skill a chance to host something, but this still implies that somebody will actually be willing to do it. I'm not gonna lie, it's a pretty daunting task to have to host, as I said before. The total scorination/input/tabulation/posting process for ONE ROUND takes around an hour, give or take based on speed and amount of corps. It was worse for the first round of DotD, but that's because that was my first time actually doing anything for it, so I was obvious not the most efficient. I'll teach anyone the most efficient way to do it, as I did for the IMAA World Champs. But someone has to step up and do it.

TL;DR: I'll ring up the Beta Committee for the IMAA and draft a constitution, after some consideration over whether we want to continue with a second circuit or not.
Whether or not we have a second circuit is dependent on two things: if we can garner more interest/preferably more RP, and if we can find some people other than me willing to host.

I'm also considering sending out, like, a survey or something to nations who signed up for past competitions, to see what the general word on the street is about these competitions in generally. Maybe, just maybe (if anyone responds) it can shed some light on how we can improve this, to make it just better.

please somebody respond to me so i don't go insane

[Arcantova]

I am definitely willing to participate in the Beta committee. The first circuit did lack some participation, but this is a new concept on the NS Sports forums. It will take time and dedication by several nations to grow and foster the IMAA. I am determined to see this succeed, as I too had wanted to launch an international drum corps organization in the past.

I do continue to suggest that the next circuit be host ENTIRELY under one thread, much like the World Cup. A series of competitions hosted by one (or two) people, culminating in the World Championships. I believe people would be more willing to participate if they didn't have to sign up, and repost their information between every...single...competition. It would help keep things organized and less cluttered as well. That being said, I'm not sure if you have put out your modified xkorinatore file for drum corps to the public, but if you have I may try to look at it and get an understanding of it because I would certainly be willing to try to host the next circuit. I already have some ideas to make it an interesting series.

I would also consider instead of jumping from your normal scorinator to your 'world championship' scorinator that you have three scorinators so that scores increase from low, medium, and then high throughout the circuit next time around.

All in all, despite the slight like of full on dedication throughout the first circuit from the competitions members, I do believe there is still hope for the IMAA's success. This little break to organize the IMAA and to hopefully build up some more support will work in our favor, and the second circuit will hopefully go smoothly.

[Cosumar]

And so there's the other thing about RP. There's only 3, really 2 (since not many RP after the finals), opportunities to RP in a normal competition. And I suppose that's the problem - it's too short to be really active or fun or involving.

Besides the simple fact that most people don't know much about drum corps, I think that this^ is the biggest obstacle to getting more participation.

[Drawkland]

And so there's the other thing about RP. There's only 3, really 2 (since not many RP after the finals), opportunities to RP in a normal competition. And I suppose that's the problem - it's too short to be really active or fun or involving.

Besides the simple fact that most people don't know much about drum corps, I think that this^ is the biggest obstacle to getting more participation.

Which is what we'll discuss here in a moment.

I do continue to suggest that the next circuit be host ENTIRELY under one thread, much like the World Cup. A series of competitions hosted by one (or two) people, culminating in the World Championships. I believe people would be more willing to participate if they didn't have to sign up, and repost their information between every...single...competition. It would help keep things organized and less cluttered as well.

You do have a good point. Perhaps one circuit "megathread" of sorts. As I brought up earlier in the thread, that does sort of take out the individuality of each host, but that could easily be ignored and hosts could post on the thread themselves. It's not a big deal and I think your idea is very good in this case.

That being said, I'm not sure if you have put out your modified xkorinatore file for drum corps to the public, but if you have I may try to look at it and get an understanding of it because I would certainly be willing to try to host the next circuit. I already have some ideas to make it an interesting series.

I would also consider instead of jumping from your normal scorinator to your 'world championship' scorinator that you have three scorinators so that scores increase from low, medium, and then high throughout the circuit next time around.

I need to edit the scorinators. You're right, there needs to be a mid-ground one for better measure. And I need to edit the world finals one because it often would produce perfect scores in captions, which is much too high for my liking. So once I tune up the levels and make it more gradual change, I'll release them on an open file. Here are the current files, but I'm not sure if you can download them from the link, you probably can. Again, I'll be changing them soon, so no need to do that now.

All in all, despite the slight like of full on dedication throughout the first circuit from the competitions members, I do believe there is still hope for the IMAA's success. This little break to organize the IMAA and to hopefully build up some more support will work in our favor, and the second circuit will hopefully go smoothly.

Thanks for the support. It's good to know there's some confidence.

Okay, so here's what I think could happen for the IMAA in the future:

• Instead of individual competitions, there will be one "tour" or "circuit" megathread-type thread. This could work a lot like the WGPC season thread does.
• Each circuit could contain 6-7 individual competitions within them. With each competition containing 2 rounds and the World Finals 3, That can be around 14-16 times to RP, which is more than an average tournament here on NSS.
• There would be a general signup thread where corps could sign up, and nations could bid to hold competitions, which obviously would be held on the main IC circuit thread. Amount of competitions in a circuit depends on willing hosts, but there should be at least 5.
• The first 2 competitions would use the lower-score scorinator, the next 2 the medium-score scorinator, and any past that the large-score scorinator.

What do you guys think? Suggestions? Discussion?

[Astrolinium]

Hey, I'd be happy to help out/join you all with this. I could use a way to flex my roleplay muscle and soothe my inner band geek. If I may be so bold as to venture this, I seem to remember one of the problems had with getting something like this off the ground in the past has been a general unsureness of how to roleplay a drum corps show effectively; don't know if that's still a problem this time, but if it is, it's one that's worth looking at.

[Drawkland]

Hey, I'd be happy to help out/join you all with this. I could use a way to flex my roleplay muscle and soothe my inner band geek. If I may be so bold as to venture this, I seem to remember one of the problems had with getting something like this off the ground in the past has been a general unsureness of how to roleplay a drum corps show effectively; don't know if that's still a problem this time, but if it is, it's one that's worth looking at.

There hadn't been much RP earlier in the circuit but there were several decent examples in the recent World Championship.

I suppose that's what shuts off any NSS denizen from joining an unfamiliar sport competition, is just not necessarily knowing how to RP that certain event.

[Astrolinium]

Hey, I'd be happy to help out/join you all with this. I could use a way to flex my roleplay muscle and soothe my inner band geek. If I may be so bold as to venture this, I seem to remember one of the problems had with getting something like this off the ground in the past has been a general unsureness of how to roleplay a drum corps show effectively; don't know if that's still a problem this time, but if it is, it's one that's worth looking at.

There hadn't been much RP earlier in the circuit but there were several decent examples in the recent World Championship.

I suppose that's what shuts off any NSS denizen from joining an unfamiliar sport competition, is just not necessarily knowing how to RP that certain event.

I think if the people involved were to get together and prepare a tutorial (I'd be happy to help if I can but I myself don't have too much experience on that front), that might go a long way.

[Drawkland]

There hadn't been much RP earlier in the circuit but there were several decent examples in the recent World Championship.

I suppose that's what shuts off any NSS denizen from joining an unfamiliar sport competition, is just not necessarily knowing how to RP that certain event.

I think if the people involved were to get together and prepare a tutorial (I'd be happy to help if I can but I myself don't have too much experience on that front), that might go a long way.

In future signups, I'm considering having a spoiler full of drum corps performances and good example RP's for people to follow, along with the generic description of what a drum corps is. I'll likely write a dispatch for it too, in all detail.

[Alphatheta]

I think if the people involved were to get together and prepare a tutorial (I'd be happy to help if I can but I myself don't have too much experience on that front), that might go a long way.

In future signups, I'm considering having a spoiler full of drum corps performances and good example RP's for people to follow, along with the generic description of what a drum corps is. I'll likely write a dispatch for it too, in all detail.

This would be super helpful! I think at least a link to a dispatch in signups to would increase participation, even to the shorter competition route (although I definitely like the multiple-in-one-tour/circuit idea).

[Xhayparia]

I am also here, lmao, I co-founded the I.M.A.A. and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

[Arcantova]

I think if the people involved were to get together and prepare a tutorial (I'd be happy to help if I can but I myself don't have too much experience on that front), that might go a long way.

In future signups, I'm considering having a spoiler full of drum corps performances and good example RP's for people to follow, along with the generic description of what a drum corps is. I'll likely write a dispatch for it too, in all detail.

I most certainly suggest RP ideas, sample RPs, descriptions of drum corps, and maybe a few videos in the first post next time. But we are far from that, as the governing document and such come first. I'm not sure when we'll get started on that, but just tell me when and I'll be here to give my two cents, because as stated before, I would love to see this succeed.

[Drawkland]

In future signups, I'm considering having a spoiler full of drum corps performances and good example RP's for people to follow, along with the generic description of what a drum corps is. I'll likely write a dispatch for it too, in all detail.

I most certainly suggest RP ideas, sample RPs, descriptions of drum corps, and maybe a few videos in the first post next time. But we are far from that, as the governing document and such come first. I'm not sure when we'll get started on that, but just tell me when and I'll be here to give my two cents, because as stated before, I would love to see this succeed.

We have 4/6 people who confirmed to be on the committe, I think that's enough, so I'll have to get that together soon.

I still need to find an appropriate venue, however. This thread is my first choice, although I don't want to clutter it. Multi-person TG is an option but I feel that that would be prevented by inbox limits. Commenting and collabing via Google Docs is a good option too. Last resort would be a text group chat, but I don't want to do that.

Thoughts?

[Arcantova]

I most certainly suggest RP ideas, sample RPs, descriptions of drum corps, and maybe a few videos in the first post next time. But we are far from that, as the governing document and such come first. I'm not sure when we'll get started on that, but just tell me when and I'll be here to give my two cents, because as stated before, I would love to see this succeed.

We have 4/6 people who confirmed to be on the committe, I think that's enough, so I'll have to get that together soon.

I still need to find an appropriate venue, however. This thread is my first choice, although I don't want to clutter it. Multi-person TG is an option but I feel that that would be prevented by inbox limits. Commenting and collabing via Google Docs is a good option too. Last resort would be a text group chat, but I don't want to do that.

Thoughts?

I think it would be best just to do it in this thread. It is the most efficient way. It would clutter up this thread, but wouldn't overfill anyone's inbox.

[Sjovenia]

Is this marching competition strictly for highschoolers and college students or could this be a place for nation's military drill teams and marching skills as well? i.e. Armed Drill, Marching Formations, "March Offs" etc etc?

[Drawkland]

Is this marching competition strictly for highschoolers and college students or could this be a place for nation's military drill teams and marching skills as well? i.e. Armed Drill, Marching Formations, "March Offs" etc etc?

We've never established an age limit, so there's technically no problem with having a military corps. As long as they're comprised of brass, percussion, and guard, it's fine.
It appears we've had a military-type corps at every competition so far, based on the name. So that's possible.

[Sjovenia]

Sounds good!

[Drawkland]

So, as Arcantova suggested, we'll hold talks over the governing document and future of the IMAA right here in this thread. I doubt it'll be much trouble.

So, again, here's what we need to do (in tentative order of importance:

1. Organization of IMAA circuits
2. Election/Roles of Officer(s)
3. Committee Membership qualifications
4. How to deal with Ties and other scoring issues
5. Anything else we think to include

Together we'll draft a ruling document that will contain all this information, but that will be better defined once we confirm the course of action on these points.

So, the first point is where we'll start. I summed up my suggestion a few weeks ago with this:

• Instead of individual competitions, there will be one "tour" or "circuit" megathread-type thread. This could work a lot like the WGPC season thread does.
• Each circuit could contain 6-7 individual competitions within them. With each competition containing 2 rounds and the World Finals 3, That can be around 14-16 times to RP, which is more than an average tournament here on NSS.
• There would be a general signup thread where corps could sign up, and nations could bid to hold competitions, which obviously would be held on the main IC circuit thread. Amount of competitions in a circuit depends on willing hosts, but there should be at least 5.
• The first 2 competitions would use the lower-score scorinator, the next 2 the medium-score scorinator, and any past that the large-score scorinator.

I think a good way to handle the bidding would be for anyone in the signup thread to say "I want to host a competition, named X", and then they could be added to the shortlist for the tour. Once a list of about 4-5 competitions from players is made, the bids will be voted on by the committee (just as a simple way to weed out ones we feel uneasy about, whatever). Also at this time people could bid to host the Baptism of Rhythm and IMAA World Champs, which would be voted on (but in this case it's choosing who would do it rather than whether we'd do it at all).
Then, once the tour schedule is finalized, we could align the competitions to a week each, and 2 rounds each, just going in order.

Recently I've become involved in the World Grand Prix Championships (WGPC), and I've realized that their scoring paradigm could actually be very virtuous to us. Basically how it works is that every weekend, a different grand prix is held, and it has several rounds: one practice on Friday, qualifying rounds on Saturday, and the race on Sunday. The place that a racer gets gives them a certain amount of points, which add up over the total of the season.

This could be translated to us very similarly: every weekend, we could have a Prelims round on Friday or Thursday, and then have Finals on Sunday. This gives plenty of time to RP, and has a constant season-like feel to it, without being intrusive (remember, we're not exactly the most important sport to most NSS'ers, if we intersect with other competitions too much, we'll be neglected in favor of more important competitions).
A corps, when placing in a certain spot, would get a certain amount of points, and this would add up. Now, rather than contradicting World Finals and declaring a winner based on points, I believe the points should be used to the effect of ranking points: being added to a corps' bonus cumulatively, therefore reducing randomness and making sure that "good" corps are consistently "good" throughout the season.
The cumulative bonus from a corps would be moved back a decimal place or two, and if the corps comes back for the next circuit, it could be used as a marginal bonus to start off the next circuit.

Now, the WGPC only has one guy running it (Liventia I think does it all), but we could circumvent this by having individual nations do their specified weekends. Alternatively we could bid, vote, and assign a single nation to scorinate the whole circuit, but I feel that's unnecessary.

Also, the ranking spreadsheet I made earlier this season would be tossed in favor of this circuit system, if it were put into place. That sheet didn't work like I really intended it to, unfortunately.

I have more on this subject but I will wait on the rest of the Beta Committee's input before talking more.

[Arcantova]

I would first like to apologize for waiting so long to reply. Studying for finals took up a lot of time.

Now, time to take a look at the above suggestions on circuit organization.

Being the first to suggest a megathread for one circuit, I completely agree with that plan. Using one megathread will keep the IMAA from cluttering the NS Sports boards and will, maybe, get people more interested because they wouldn't have to re-register for every single competition.

Now, on to determining who would run the megathread. I suggest that the main circuit thread be run by the president of the IMAA, with the individual competition results being posted by the individual hosts. I also suggest 6-7 competitions throughout the circuit. The two rounds per competition may be a bit of an overkill, but I see that you are trying to get a lot of RP opportunities, so though I am against the idea, I understand why you want to put it in place. I also agree that doing one competition per weekend would be beneficial because it would put it at a more relaxed pace.

Now for bidding. I agree that bidding for a competition should be done while signing up for the circuit. However, more detail than just "I would like to host a competition, named X" should be posted. I'm not saying it should be like an entire host bid for the world cup or anything, but the person bidding should AT LEAST assure the group that they do know how the scorination works. One problem with the IMAA being so young is that we don't know who we could trust well enough. That being said, in the event that a host does not post the results, the president would have to do it. I suggest a 24 hour period. So if prelims are supposed to be posted on Friday, but Saturday night at the same time, if the host has not posted results or given an excuse for why results haven't been posted, the president would need to do it.

The points system would be a marvelous idea, making sure that the better corps have a better chance of remaining the best throughout the competition. I am 100% on board with this whole idea.

[Drawkland]

Now for bidding. I agree that bidding for a competition should be done while signing up for the circuit. However, more detail than just "I would like to host a competition, named X" should be posted. I'm not saying it should be like an entire host bid for the world cup or anything, but the person bidding should AT LEAST assure the group that they do know how the scorination works. One problem with the IMAA being so young is that we don't know who we could trust well enough. That being said, in the event that a host does not post the results, the president would have to do it. I suggest a 24 hour period. So if prelims are supposed to be posted on Friday, but Saturday night at the same time, if the host has not posted results or given an excuse for why results haven't been posted, the president would need to do it.

This is a good idea, to have as a backup. Perhaps any potential host with little scoring experience could be given a crash course before the season starts, maybe with help from the president. Hopefully we have some other input on other subjects, but here's some more stuff:

We've already discussed what the president should do during the circuit, but I'll outline it again here.

There should be one officer, and then the IMAA council. To be on the council, a nation should have posted corps information and made at least 2 RP posts over the course of a circuit. They'll be automatically added if they meet the requirements. If they don't post at all in 2 subsequent circuits afterwards, they'll be automatically removed. The council will do host voting, president voting, and constitutional amendment voting.
The president can be nominated by anyone on the council, but the president must be a council member already. 2-circuit terms, but they can serve up to 2 terms in a row, before having to let someone else serve. They will operate circuit signups, start the circuit threads, keep track of RP bonus and ranks throughout the circuit, and organize records and such for scores.