NS Rugby Discussion Thread (v.2)

[Elejamie]

Congratulations, commiserations and well dones where appropriate. Now I'm hoping to tank harder than the NFC East just so we can finally get a different final for once. I'm also not going to comment on the whole drama that went on during the RWC for the sole reason that it's now over and everything seems to have been sorted out, so any further comments aren't really that necessary.

The rankings for union have been updated. Please let me know if you spot any errors.

With regards to the timing of the next World Cup, if Northwest Kalactin is still planning on hosting the Coffs International 7’s, now would be the time to do that, as the next World Cup will be the Sevens World Cup (unless there are any strong objections that League be next instead), which would follow pretty soon thereafter. If NK has changed his mind about hosting the sevens tourney, or decided to host it at a latter time, then I'm inclined to open the signups for the Sevens World Cup in the next two to three weeks with a targeted start date of early/mid-January for the Sevens World Cup.

I will of course confer with my colleagues on the Executive Council to make sure they agree with the plan and what not, but since I don't foresee much in the way of disagreement, assume this is the plan for now.

I'd probably recommend that someone TG them on here or DM them on Discord just to be sure. Besides, if they decline and there's no one else interested in getting a sevens tourney up (which, for the record, I'd like to say that we're always open for some even if there are no plans to make them an annual thing like the AVBF 7s) then I won't mind the R7WC being moved up a few months.

[Northwest Kalactin]

I’m here, I can get the signup thread running tonight if needed.

[Darmen]

I’m here, I can get the signup thread running tonight if needed.

You don't necessarily have to post it tonight, I don't want to rush you if you have other things you need to take care of first. I more so just wanted to get an idea of what sort of timeline you had in mind so that I could have an idea of a possible timeline for the Sevens WC.

[Hebitaka]

Hey about the RUCT 35, my nation trigramme will be 'HTK' (not 'HBK'). I forgot to mention it. Pls change it(I know it is not mandatory, but my eyes would catch it faster.)

[Elejamie]

Just to make sure everyone's aware of it, here's the link to the Coffs 7s tournament that Northwest Kalactin is hosting: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=494914

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

BTW, Sevens Rankings are updated with the results of last AVBF Sevens. Link is here and also in the OP. As usual, if you notice some inconsistency, please get in touch.

—Lis

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

*flicks switch*

*coughs because of all the dust*

Wow, it's been quiet for the past few months. I honestly thought there would be some people up for hosting some more rugby, so I do apologise if this counts as a warn-worthy gravedig. On the upside, sign-ups for the sixth Rugby Sevens World Cup are now open, so there's an actual reason for this thread to be resurrected : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=502051

- EJM

[Kelssek]

We're approaching 5 months since the last rugby union World Cup, can the president comment on how often they believe Rugby World Cups should be held? It is impossible to sustain interest in a tournament if there are 12 months between editions.

[Quintessence of Dust]

^ Agreed.

Thanks for running the RUCT, Darmen. I'm sorry my submissions weren't better RPed, but I aim to do better next time.

If anyone wants to send players or anything lemme know blah blah.

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

Please see this post about the new deadline for host bids for the Rugby Sevens World Cup.

Additionally, there are two more things to note: the signups for the next Rugby Union World Cup will be opened either on the day of, or the day after the final of the Rugby Sevens World Cup; and we're nearing the end of Lisander's year long term as NSRB President. Also, the position of Union VP has been vacant for some time now and also needs to be filled. Therefore, anyone who is interested in running for the position of President or Union VP should consider putting their names forwards as candidates. We plan on running the President/VP election concurrently with the Union WC host vote. (Mine and Elejamie's terms as League and Sevens VPs do not expire until the next League WC and Sevens WC respectively.)

-Darmen

[The Grearish Union]

With the 6th Rugby Sevens World Cup coming to a close in Forsho, I would like to thank all of you for placing the faith in me to host this tournament. It has been a fun experience at an otherwise challenging time for me, and I'm grateful. Congratulations and commiserations wherever due, and here's to looking forward to more. Cheers!

[Commonwealth of Baker Park]

With the 6th Rugby Sevens World Cup coming to a close in Forsho, I would like to thank all of you for placing the faith in me to host this tournament. It has been a fun experience at an otherwise challenging time for me, and I'm grateful. Congratulations and commiserations wherever due, and here's to looking forward to more. Cheers!

I want to express my thanks for all of work you put in, this was my first time in the WC and it was great fun.
Good luck to all the finalists!

[Darmen]

Signups for RUWC 30 are now open!

Additionally, nominations for NSRB President and for the Union VP are now being accepted. Candidates for President must receive three nominations in total and at least one nomination from each NSRB section. Candidates for Union VP need only to nominate themselves. The deadline for nominations will be the same as the deadline for host bids to the RUWC, June 2nd at 11:59 US Central Time.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

Signups for RUWC 30 are now open!

Additionally, nominations for NSRB President and for the Union VP are now being accepted. Candidates for President must receive three nominations in total and at least one nomination from each NSRB section. Candidates for Union VP need only to nominate themselves. The deadline for nominations will be the same as the deadline for host bids to the RUWC, June 2nd at 11:59 US Central Time.

One question - would a candidate for any VP position available would require an active NSRB membership at this point in time? I have signed up in last RUWC (as well as current one) and R7WC, but was unable to submit roster at the time and would not be eligible for either.

If the self-nomination is not valid due to reasons I've stated above, however, then consider this more or less as a bump, to keep the ball rolling with the nominations process. BUT, if the eligibility part is cleared, I nominate myself for the Union VP position in order to further propel with the process. Given the unusual circumstance, my nomination will be withdrawn should a more experienced candidate expresses their nomination as well.

[The Grearish Union]

In order to further propel with the process, I nominate myself for the Union VP position. My nomination will be withdrawn should a more experienced candidate expresses their nomination as well.

Seconding Quebec's nomination considering the eligibility conditions are cleared.

[Iparanaia]

A lite bit of a…quixotic question but has there ever been a canonical explanation for there being a union/league split as in RLstates? I assume no, but if there were one I’d have reason to RP it further.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Not that I can recall, no. Individuals may have done RPs about it in their own nation but there's never been any community canon.

[Iparanaia]

Not that I can recall, no. Individuals may have done RPs about it in their own nation but there's never been any community canon.

Thank you! I hadn't thought so, but I figured it was worth a shot.

[Ko-oren]

Also, the position of Union VP has been vacant for some time now and also needs to be filled. Therefore, anyone who is interested in running for the position of President or Union VP should consider putting their names forwards as candidates. We plan on running the President/VP election concurrently with the Union WC host vote.

I've given it some thought, and I'd like to be a candidate as well, for a few reasons:
- RUWC/RLWC are not run regularly, causing the ranks to include results from 2019. I fear it's turning people away from NSS Rugby in general. In accordance with my posts on discord*, I'd like to establish a platform for both tournaments to be hosted at the same time.
- There have been discussions on scorination, especially about the standard xkoranate formulas returning very low scores that can't be called realistic at this point. I'd also like to tackle that discussion, and maybe we can all come to a new standard. Sure, scorinator formula discussions are a part of every sport on here, but rarely for the same reason as Union/League.
- I'm especially invested in Union/League. I have no intention on touching Sevens (unless needed): I don't participate in it, I don't fully understand the scheduling, but from the outside, it seems to work fine.
- Having three leadership positions, each with varying authority, for a somewhat 'niche' sport on NSS is perhaps a little outdated, and I'd like to further the discussion on restructuring that - again, if needed. I'm aware of how touchy this subject can be and I'd love to work it out with the current Pres/VPs as well as the experienced members in the NSS Rugby community.

Primarily I'd want to reach the following:
- More RUWCs and RLWCs. I can see a solution in holding them at the same time.
- More events hopefully lead to more return entrants, which in turn causes larger tournaments, as well as a larger group of contenders in both tournaments.
- A discussion on (new) 'default' xkoranate xml files.

I do not intend to criticise the work done by the current Pres/VPs. For what it's worth, I've been part of how we came to the current situation as well. I'm far from perfect. And I should probably get the IRLCC going again.

[The Licentian Isles]

SNIP

Thank you for starting this discussion Ko, I think as others have said above it seems necessary (at least based on the short time I've been back) for a restructuring of how rugby is run on NSS, as I think there is a decent amount of interest that has perhaps been dampened by the gap between tournaments. I would support your restructuring, both of the NSRB and of the running of the union and league World Cups, as well as your candidacy for President.

I'm well aware that, as someone whose been gone for a while, me making proposals and putting myself forward for things might be a wee bit rich, but I hope that nobody takes this as me stepping on any toes, and that at the very least this starts a conversation.

I would like to propose, in parallel to what Ko has suggested, a reform of how Sevens is run on NSS.

My opinion, based on how it is run in real life, is that Sevens can be run very differently to the two other codes prominent in NSS rugby. While a World Cup works for those two, I'm personally of the opinion that 7s, a much shorter form sport, would benefit from a format that reflects the series that are run IRL, with multiple events occurring across a period of time with an eventual winner decided in a league format based on the results from each tournament. This is something that is at a very early stage as I'm pretty much putting ideas in a post that were only prompted by Ko's post, so I think discussion would be very useful here.

I can see this series being overseen by one member of the community, elected by the community, who administers the back end and selects events for the coming "cycle" of Sevens from applications, much in the style that motorsport tends to be run here. The difference, of course, would be that users who get an event would be scorinating it too, which I think would be a good way to encourage new hosts, and possibly also to encourage RP as regular competitors can focus on their nations travelling to a variety of locations. I envision signups being separate for each event, but I also think that signups could occur once at the beginning of a "cycle".

I'd be curious to get feedback from the community on this. Like I say, I've not been back long, but with the proposals regarding league and union from Ko, I think now would be the time to consider if there's a different way of running Sevens. Much like Ko said, this is no critique of hosts, VPs, or Presidents, this is just an idea on how we could move forward differently.

[Kelssek]

I am speaking as someone who only really cares about the 15-player code, so take that for what it's worth.

I've stated in the past that excessive formalization is unnecessary for most tournaments and sports. Here, I've proposed major changes to reduce the rigidity but that hasn't really done much to improve the situation.

I think it's time to dissolve the NSRB and have future world cups in rugby league and union run themselves. Anyone can start signups when they feel it's time, and the collective will decide when it actually happens. This is how all sports used to work. Sevens might need an elected coordinator to organize what people seem to want, but at the minimum the three need to be broken up.

[Quintessence of Dust]

I completely agree with Kelssek.

[Republique Mariannoise]

Re: the scoring, I'm not sure why it leads to both teams always having either "odd" or "even" scores, but my NRL file is more in line with modern rugby league scoring. There's also a version with 3/4 as many attacks which I was using for a method of letting xkoranate score most of the match and then I would transfer over to another method.

[Elejamie]

SNIP

My opinion, based on how it is run in real life, is that Sevens can be run very differently to the two other codes prominent in NSS rugby. While a World Cup works for those two, I'm personally of the opinion that 7s, a much shorter form sport, would benefit from a format that reflects the series that are run IRL, with multiple events occurring across a period of time with an eventual winner decided in a league format based on the results from each tournament. This is something that is at a very early stage as I'm pretty much putting ideas in a post that were only prompted by Ko's post, so I think discussion would be very useful here.

I can see this series being overseen by one member of the community, elected by the community, who administers the back end and selects events for the coming "cycle" of Sevens from applications, much in the style that motorsport tends to be run here. The difference, of course, would be that users who get an event would be scorinating it too, which I think would be a good way to encourage new hosts, and possibly also to encourage RP as regular competitors can focus on their nations travelling to a variety of locations. I envision signups being separate for each event, but I also think that signups could occur once at the beginning of a "cycle".

I'd be curious to get feedback from the community on this. Like I say, I've not been back long, but with the proposals regarding league and union from Ko, I think now would be the time to consider if there's a different way of running Sevens. Much like Ko said, this is no critique of hosts, VPs, or Presidents, this is just an idea on how we could move forward differently.

Being the current Sevens VP, I will say that we tried to get a Sevens series going a few years ago for that exact reason. People would bid to host a tournament in it, we arranged them in a certain way (with Neu Engollon's AVBF Sevens kicking us off) with the caveat that the top sixteen would go through to the Rugby Sevens World Cup, just so that there was a reason to actually bring the thing back. Unfortunately, it ended up being a massive bust. Despite a couple of solidly hosted tournaments, there were a number of delays, one tournament had to be cancelled because the host CTE'd and the Rugby Sevens World Cup host disappeared midway through the tournament so one of the other NSRB Council people (because I have a Chromebook meaning that I can't really get Xkoranate to run*) had to step in and rush an ending. The whole thing was such a disaster that I ended up abandoning plans for a second series and we just had every sevens tournament as normal with the Rugby Sevens World Cup just being a standard "anyone can join and bid" event.

Don't get me wrong, I'm most definitely in favour for a second shot at the whole series thing, maybe it could be what TV Tropes calls My Greatest Second Chance. But it requires EVERYONE to be as active as possible, have some backup plans in case something goes wrong and a schedule we can all agree to, with a couple of margins of error of course because real life can be tricky like that.

*Although I have a feeling this computer will end up dying at some point this year for a number of reasons I won't get into but whether or not I'd be able to afford a new one will remain a mystery, especially since money's a bit tight at the moment.

[The Licentian Isles]

My opinion, based on how it is run in real life, is that Sevens can be run very differently to the two other codes prominent in NSS rugby. While a World Cup works for those two, I'm personally of the opinion that 7s, a much shorter form sport, would benefit from a format that reflects the series that are run IRL, with multiple events occurring across a period of time with an eventual winner decided in a league format based on the results from each tournament. This is something that is at a very early stage as I'm pretty much putting ideas in a post that were only prompted by Ko's post, so I think discussion would be very useful here.

I can see this series being overseen by one member of the community, elected by the community, who administers the back end and selects events for the coming "cycle" of Sevens from applications, much in the style that motorsport tends to be run here. The difference, of course, would be that users who get an event would be scorinating it too, which I think would be a good way to encourage new hosts, and possibly also to encourage RP as regular competitors can focus on their nations travelling to a variety of locations. I envision signups being separate for each event, but I also think that signups could occur once at the beginning of a "cycle".

I'd be curious to get feedback from the community on this. Like I say, I've not been back long, but with the proposals regarding league and union from Ko, I think now would be the time to consider if there's a different way of running Sevens. Much like Ko said, this is no critique of hosts, VPs, or Presidents, this is just an idea on how we could move forward differently.

Being the current Sevens VP, I will say that we tried to get a Sevens series going a few years ago for that exact reason. People would bid to host a tournament in it, we arranged them in a certain way (with Neu Engollon's AVBF Sevens kicking us off) with the caveat that the top sixteen would go through to the Rugby Sevens World Cup, just so that there was a reason to actually bring the thing back. Unfortunately, it ended up being a massive bust. Despite a couple of solidly hosted tournaments, there were a number of delays, one tournament had to be cancelled because the host CTE'd and the Rugby Sevens World Cup host disappeared midway through the tournament so one of the other NSRB Council people (because I have a Chromebook meaning that I can't really get Xkoranate to run*) had to step in and rush an ending. The whole thing was such a disaster that I ended up abandoning plans for a second series and we just had every sevens tournament as normal with the Rugby Sevens World Cup just being a standard "anyone can join and bid" event.

Don't get me wrong, I'm most definitely in favour for a second shot at the whole series thing, maybe it could be what TV Tropes calls My Greatest Second Chance. But it requires EVERYONE to be as active as possible, have some backup plans in case something goes wrong and a schedule we can all agree to, with a couple of margins of error of course because real life can be tricky like that.

*Although I have a feeling this computer will end up dying at some point this year for a number of reasons I won't get into but whether or not I'd be able to afford a new one will remain a mystery, especially since money's a bit tight at the moment.

That is good to know, thank you, especially as I will have missed things like this if they've happened in the five plus years I've not been around on NSS! That's an interesting thing to hear, and I think it does indicate that for something like this to get off the ground, there would have to be some pretty solid organisation. My view is that it's doable, especially if you take a view similar to that which Liventia used to select teams for WGP2 Season 4 (previous experienced users, new promising users, and the ability to change things around should someone CTE or become inactive). If you'd be interested in looking to start this up again, I'd definitely be up for discussing this with you to get the full story on what happened with the last attempt to see if we could learn from it should we follow up this idea.