International Hockey Discussion Thread (OOC, version II)

[Graintfjall]

Congrats to the champions and thanks to Taeshan for hosting.

Can we please never do double-elimination again?

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

Can we please never do double-elimination again?

^This.

[Valanora]

As the rank keeper, I can honestly tell you right now that I have no feasible way to update the ranks thanks to the format that was chosen.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

As the rank keeper, I can honestly tell you right now that I have no feasible way to update the ranks thanks to the format that was chosen.

Would it be possible to just do it along conventional stage (9-16/5-8/3-4/2/1) by any chance? I am thinking along the lines of IBC's ranks more or less.

[Valanora]

No, because the formula is based upon all teams being able to play a fixed number of games that needs to be a constant, not a variable. Currently those in the group stage, loser's bracket, and winner's bracket all get screwed over if I try to simple smooth it over.

[Strike]

Just "Double" the number of knockout rounds and give teams that win in Round 1 a bye through Round 2 to Round 3 with the Bye awarding points as if they had won.
Then at the end of it all reduce the total points earned in the knockout rounds by 50%

(Or you could conversely do 2 points for a win in the winners bracket, and 1 point for a win in the losers bracket for a similar effect.)

[Graintfjall]

I was going to suggest something similar to Strike. Give teams a point for earning a bye (thus making it fairer on teams in the winners' bracket) and then divide all the playoff stage points by 2 (thus making it fairer on teams that didn't get out of the group stage). A team that made the final would end up with about the same points as had it been a single elimination bracket.

[Siovanija and Teusland]

Just wanted to say thank you to Taeshan for hosting, and offer my commiserations to Ko-oren, who had an excellent run in the tournament - I'm sure they'll be back soon. Nothing better in hockey than an overtime win in the playoffs! Very much looking forward to the next edition! And while I'm certainly not an expert on how the rankings are calculated, I'd say that Strike's suggestion would probably work well for this format.

[Ko-oren]

Thanks and congratulations! I could be salty about the loss but making the finals is by far the best I've done so far. Can't say I feel it was entirely deserved and I hope to be more active in the next one.

As for the rankings, iirc the World Bowl has had formats like this, maybe that ranking formula can be copied?

[Ontorisa]

I have a couple of proposals for tournaments, if we have the capacity for them. Would be willing to host both if people are interested.

The U18 Nations Invitational Cup

Similar to that of the IRL Hlinka Gretzky Cup, it would be a smaller tournament that would be eligible to be hosted by nations for their U18 players/prospects. It would not be as demanding as the WJHC (which is U20) but would allow us to flesh out our WJHC rosters even further by being able to incorporate younger players and additional storylines.

The Xaludrossen Memorial Cup

Similar to that of the IRL Spengler Cup, this tournament would consist of more fringe players who would not be able to be showcased on the WCoH stage. It would be open to both clubs and nations, and would be "hosted" consistently in Ontorisa (does not matter who the scorinators are though, anyone can host the thread). Additionally, this gives leeway to showcase the abundance of talent available to nations and allow for the development of additional players to be transferred to other leagues.

Let me know what you guys think. I know I just gave the barebones descriptions, but would be willing to discuss these ideas more. If we are at capacity for tournaments though, I totally understand.

EDIT: I would like to mention that these would have to be sanctioned by the WCoH Federation. So we could take these to a vote if we are to ratify them.

[Graintfjall]

The last WCoH wasn't that intensively RPed. Is there really demand for four (or six, if you include the upcoming Winter Olympics) ice hockey tournaments?

[Sarzonia]

I don't think WCoH sanction is necessarily a requirement for those prospective tournaments. If you operate them and they generate enough interest, they might stand well enough on their own merits.

[Elejamie]

I have a couple of proposals for tournaments, if we have the capacity for them. Would be willing to host both if people are interested.

The U18 Nations Invitational Cup

Similar to that of the IRL Hlinka Gretzky Cup, it would be a smaller tournament that would be eligible to be hosted by nations for their U18 players/prospects. It would not be as demanding as the WJHC (which is U20) but would allow us to flesh out our WJHC rosters even further by being able to incorporate younger players and additional storylines.

The Xaludrossen Memorial Cup

Similar to that of the IRL Spengler Cup, this tournament would consist of more fringe players who would not be able to be showcased on the WCoH stage. It would be open to both clubs and nations, and would be "hosted" consistently in Ontorisa (does not matter who the scorinators are though, anyone can host the thread). Additionally, this gives leeway to showcase the abundance of talent available to nations and allow for the development of additional players to be transferred to other leagues.

Let me know what you guys think. I know I just gave the barebones descriptions, but would be willing to discuss these ideas more. If we are at capacity for tournaments though, I totally understand.

EDIT: I would like to mention that these would have to be sanctioned by the WCoH Federation. So we could take these to a vote if we are to ratify them.

I won't say they're bad ideas but I feel the same way as Graintfjall in that I don't think there would be enough demand for more tournaments. It would've been better a couple of years ago when ice hockey was pretty much completely dead but, as it seems to get a bit more lively, I don't think any more tournaments would be necessary. Maybe as a one-off or something but probably not regular competitions.

[Ontorisa]

Can someone peer-review this for me before I post it and lemme know what it's missing/what needs to be changed?

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ABOUT

The Xaludrossen Memorial Cup (XMC) is an open Ice Hockey championship game where both clubs and nations can compete in. Hosted in Ontorisa, the XMC is inspired the in-real life Spengler Cup, but plays by International (WCoH Federation) rules. Typically played between the national teams of the Isles, the tournament has now been opened up for international competition. Due to the placement of the tournament, which is usually in the midst of the OJL and other hockey league seasons, national teams typically consist of "fringe" players (i.e. players playing in more minor league roles - [IRL Example: SM-Liiga & SHL players playing for Team Canada]). While junior (U18)/younger players are not uncommon in this tournament, due to the nature of the tournament, it is not a juniors tournament.

Named after the late Ontorisan hockey legend, Heja Xaludrossen, the XMC provides additional international competition for nations and clubs alike. Additionally, the XMC has a fairly sizeable prize pool to entice competition between competing clubs and nations for the cup. The purpose of this tournament is RPing and the fleshing out of the NS Ice Hockey universe.

IC-wise, this year's Xaludrossen Memorial Cup will be hosted in Port Oklisy.

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TIMELINE
Host Bid Cut-Off Date: ??
Host Vote Cutoff Date: ??
Sign-Up Cutoff Date: ??

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GENERAL RULES

• To sign up, simply post in this thread your to participate.
• Participants are limited to either a national team or a club team. No exceptions.
  
  Please indicate whether if you will be participating with a club or national team.
• A maximum of ONE puppet will be permitted per participant.
  
  To do this, simply post with your puppet along with your main account's name beside it to indicate to the "host" nation who controls your puppet.
• Hosting is open to anyone. To submit a host request, please post your proposal in this thread.
  
  • OOC-wise, the tournament can be hosted by anyone. IC-wise, the tournament takes place in Ontorisa. Critical IC information will be communicated to the "host".
  • In case of multiple host bids, all participants (excluding puppets) will be permitted to cast their votes as a tie-breaker.

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SIGN-UPS (???/???)

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HOST BIDS (???/???)

[Ontorisa]

The U18 Nations Invitational Tournament is now up!

[World Cup of Hockey Federation]

So everyone knows, the World Juniors signups are up!

And, of course, we have not forgotten the WCoH. Not sure exactly when we'll get signups up, but definitely sooner rather than later. Want to avoid the tournament concurrently running with the Juniors, so probably sometime around that tournament being well underway.

[Fluvannia]

I was going to suggest something similar to Strike. Give teams a point for earning a bye (thus making it fairer on teams in the winners' bracket) and then divide all the playoff stage points by 2 (thus making it fairer on teams that didn't get out of the group stage). A team that made the final would end up with about the same points as had it been a single elimination bracket.

To your question in the WJHC thread, at least for WJHC 15 the method I used after developing a Juniors ranking was to use a "weighted rank" : 70% WJHC rank (developed from WJHC 14, uses same exact system as WCOH) and 30% WCOH rank. I took those and then ranked teams based on that value. Of course, since S&T occupied the top spot in both they had a weighted rank of 1, which is the lowest possible

I've already updated those same rankings to reflect the results of WJHC 15, and I'm following your method (or maybe it's closer to Strike's?) to try and make sense of WCOH 41. Basically: count each Winner's bracket win as two wins (a bye through a round), then divide all the playoffs stuff for everyone involved by two. Obviously nothing official, just sort of feeling out methodology to see if it produces something that looks or feels right. Also because we will need a ranking for WCOH post-41 anyway lol

[Graintfjall]

Here's one I made trying my method for post-41 ranks. As you say nothing official but wanted to see if it passed an "eyeball test" as making sense.

[Fluvannia]

Here's one I made trying my method for post-41 ranks. As you say nothing official but wanted to see if it passed an "eyeball test" as making sense.

I'm still working on mine -- currently on MD 3 haha -- but I think I'm going to compare the two when I'm done, they should be fairly close but the differences may be telling.

[Valanora]

There are official ranks ready to be made to the public, but I've been in contact with Banija to try and make sure they are correct and if any adjustments need be made due to the highly unusual format. It is being worked on in the background and once Banija and I are satisfied that they are correct, they will be publicized.

[World Cup of Hockey Federation]

WCoH XLII Signups are live!

[Grey County]

Can we find a way to incorporate WJHC results into ranks?

[Sarzonia]

Combined ranks between regular- and junior-level competitions isn't something that's a standard practice for NS Sport.

Not saying the idea does or doesn't have merit, but it would be a break from precedent.

[Grey County]

Combined ranks between regular- and junior-level competitions isn't something that's a standard practice for NS Sport.

Not saying the idea does or doesn't have merit, but it would be a break from precedent.

I could try and make a forumula and we could see what it looks like?

[Valanora]

Can we find a way to incorporate WJHC results into ranks?

I'm inclined to say no for a myriad of reasons. Youth sport is notorious for not being indicative of senior level talent as well as not everyone who participates in the juniors that do in the senior level tournament, are just two of those reasons for not incorporating them into the rankings.