International Hockey Discussion Thread (OOC, version II)

[Elejamie]

I am actually VERY curious about those reasons. But I get people not wanting to go into these kinds of things, I just tend to enjoy it.

Count me down as likewise interested, though if you would prefer to discuss them privately I also understand.

Note: This post, which I wrote a week or two ago in Google Docs, is both an answer to Fluvannia and Savojarna and a post explaining why I retired from NS ice hockey in the first place, which is probably why it feels so janky to read.

---

Normally I would've stayed away from this whole thing. I would've stayed happily retired from ice hockey and the only time I would've touched the sport on this site with a hundred-foot pole is in the megathread over in NSG. I didn't even want to retire in the first place but I just felt like I've had enough of everything going on with the IC version of this sport. But Quebec and I have been talking off and on for the past few months over on Discord and he's been telling me that things are changing and reminding me how I used to be a driver for this sport; I'm not sure how right that is but as a few people have used my idea of separate left and right defencemen (something I'm perfectly alright as I think someone else did it before me and even if they didn't feel free to use it anyway) I guess there's an element of truth to it. After mulling it over, and seeing that the 40th edition of the World Cup of Hockey actually went well, I've decided to try and get back into it. But not before explaining WHY I left this whole thing in the first place, along with my general dissatisfaction I was having at the time:

• Complete apathy from the community. When I tried to get a World Cup of Hockey going back in August 2018, I was rudely ignored (but more on that later) and sign-ups for the 38th edition opened in November, about nine or ten months after the last one. When Neu Engollon won that, only one or two people congratulated the host; I was apparently the only one to congratulate Ngol himself and and it was through a Discord DM in the middle of a conversation we were having. The HCL and WJHC had also been neglected for the longest time, with someone having to start their own tournament in the meantime just so there could be club ice hockey again. I was willing to accept someone apparently badly done rankings just so we could have updated rankings. What happened? Why did we all just give up on this? Ice hockey's one of the biggest sports on the planet, especially in North America where I assume the majority of us WCoH regulars and former regulars are from, so I don't get why we just left it to rot unceremoniously.
• Questionable hosting. I understand that iffy tournaments are part and parcel of NS Sports. I once won a cricket tournament by only posting a roster (which may seem like an achievement but I felt it was unfair, especially on Mattijana and Liventia who produced quality RPs and would've been more worthy winners), Neu Engollon and I think a couple of other people had to scramble to finish the 4th R7WC because the host left without warning mid-tournament and, IIRC, a Rugby World Cup had to be abandoned partway through because of how iffy the results got. But, for whatever reason, the WCoH saw a LOT of this in the 30s. We had ranked teams with rosters and RPs drawing or even losing to unranked teams who provide neither. We had hosts going AWOL mid-tournament without any backup plans. We had results that were less "Margaret" and more "shenanigans". And, while I still respect him a lot ICly and OOCly and felt like a proud dad when his side deservedly finally beat mine for the first time, we had Anthor accidentally proving why away@home outside of baseball and related sports is absolute donkeyshit and needs to die; I honestly apologise if this feels like I'm picking on you or anything mate as this is the only time I'm naming names but, if you end up hosting again, PLEASE leave the results as is.
  
  And, while I'm not sure when exactly these happened so any of them may be before WCoH 30, I'm not forgetting about the last two WJHCs I was in. One saw the aforementioned problem of teams with no rosters or RPs quite easily beating those who had posted both, to the point where Quebec had to get up an RP about one of his refs engaging in match-fixing just to explain it. And the other one, sometime after that, saw the host give little to no indication that the IC thread was up until around MD1, leaving a number of people (myself included) no real time or mood to post anything. Again I'm not sure WHEN these were and, since they were years ago, they might've actually happened differently to how I remembered it. But they were still worth sharing.
• Lack of elections for four real life years. This could easily go with the "apathy" point I made earlier but I feel like this is worth a special mention. Valanora and I were elected WCoH President and VP respectively in April 2016. We had another election in December that year and we retained our roles. After that, hardly anything until we had to force elections before WCoH40. We tried to get elections running a few years ago but the results weren't posted, presumably because hardly anyone voted or nominated people and, even if they did, it was probably to keep things the same. I tried to get elections underway at one point because Valanora decided to step down and I didn't want the top job but the post was deleted and things stayed the same; apparently she decided to stay on if I didn't want the presidential job but I didn't know that at the time because I wasn't told. I didn't even want the VP job in the first place because I had no real plans for the tournament and I wouldn't know what to do but went along with it because it could be fun. Oh God, how wrong I was.
  
  With all that elections biz out of the way, I am going to apologise to Valanora for how sucky of a VP I was. While I feel like we could've communicated better, especially since I've been on Discord for a few years now, that does not excuse me for not pulling my own weight. I could've and should've done more than update sign-ups and I feel bad about leaving you with the heavy stuff. You don't have to accept my apology even if you wanted to and we don't have to be friends, as we never were in the first place. I just want any beef between us to remain IC if possible.
• Being rudely ignored. This is an incredibly minor point, which is why I saved it for last. But this was the straw that broke he camel's back, the moment where I decided to give up on this whole sport. Before WCoH38 I wanted to get some friendlies done so my players could be warmed up and ready to compete. But, since at the time the friendlies thread had been quiet for months, I asked TWICE if I should resurrect it or start a new one. Both times I didn't get an answer, even though it was just a simple yes or no question that didn't need a multi-paragraph answer. The only thing that came close to an answer was an unranked nation misreading the question and offering a match. Eventually, I got an answer from Neu Engollon… after the tournament was over and thus there was no point in answering, though I still genuinely thank him for it. I also suspect for one reason or another that this point in general is why I sucked that tournament as, despite being ranked in the top ten and producing both roster and a pre-tourney RP (however copy and paste it might be because me), I got blown out of the water by S&T, lost in a shootout to someone ranked MUCH lower than me and only got wins against unranked opponents.

And before anyone asks: No, I'm not on the NS Sports Discord server. Even though it's not as bad as people have made it out to be, I'm still not going there even if you had the world's most attractive men and women offering me a lifetime supply of tuna footlongs, bottomless bags of yoghurt-coated Skittles and baskets of kittens and cats to cuddle up to.

In all seriousness, I don't want us to start tabula rasa with a new international ice hockey competition. I want the World Cup of Hockey to be the great competition it was years ago. I want the World Junior Hockey Championships and Hockey Champions League to be fun little side-tournaments. I have faith that Banija will be the man to do all of that and more, as I heard good things about him. But we all have to get back on the ball and keep it rolling. And, most importantly, we should all try and get ourselves out of this dark age.

I'm not also trying to be all "people trying to be the king but the ace is back" with this post either. Simply because a) there are some excellent people who are still taking part in this, some of whom are better than me and b) if there's anyone worthy of that plagiarised and sanitised Dr. Dre lyric, it'd be Havl, who I also want to apologise to. In hindsight, it was incredibly dickish of my guys to celebrate beating yours in group stage matches, simply because the power of retcon showed that my guys have been a decent force for decades. Even if they weren't that's still not a cool thing to do. Even if you're not bothered by it and it's not why you also haven't participated in a long time, I'm still going to apologise because I want to get it off my chest.

Right, unnecessarily long post over. If I suck at the upcoming WJHC but it's because I didn't do a roster or RP, then I might still mull over a WCoH41 sign-up.

Hope to see y'all on the ice soon,
- EJM

[-Anthor-]

For what it's worth, I'm not offended by your callout, there is a reason that was my first time bidding to host a major event, and the last time I'll ever do it, or attempt by bidding. I knew my mistakes had caused people some aggravation and annoyance, which bothered me because like yourself I'm a passionate hockey fan in real life, stuck in an area where I'm a loner in that regard and I've always looked to NSS to provide a medium for my enjoyment.

Furthermore, I understand your frustration at the ignorance and the apathy - it was part of the reason I left NSS for 160 days, WCOH is really my main care on this genre of the site and I felt the same way, so I just saw little reason to continue but much like yourself Quebec and I have been talking, about how things are starting to change and more people are starting to contribute and care, so I returned because I want to be a part of that, and I hope eventually you will be to. Sorry if I ever felt like I was more of the problem then a help, I have missed you since you stepped away

[Valanora]

I can attest to the apathy, as voter turnout was low or non existent if I didn't pressure people to vote and engagement with the HCL got to a point where I didn't feel like running it when only 8 users were signing up.

[Ontorisa]

If it isn't already, I'd probably also recommend the transfer spreadsheet thing being put in a place where everyone can see it, whether it be in someone's signature, on the OP or anywhere else. That way we might see a lot more traffic.

I have advocated for this before, but I will second it again. Please WCoH Executives, put the link to the transfer/trade sheet into the OP of this thread. There is literally no reason not to.

Christ please, it'd be so much help.

[Elejamie]

For what it's worth, I'm not offended by your callout, there is a reason that was my first time bidding to host a major event, and the last time I'll ever do it, or attempt by bidding. I knew my mistakes had caused people some aggravation and annoyance, which bothered me because like yourself I'm a passionate hockey fan in real life, stuck in an area where I'm a loner in that regard and I've always looked to NSS to provide a medium for my enjoyment.

Furthermore, I understand your frustration at the ignorance and the apathy - it was part of the reason I left NSS for 160 days, WCOH is really my main care on this genre of the site and I felt the same way, so I just saw little reason to continue but much like yourself Quebec and I have been talking, about how things are starting to change and more people are starting to contribute and care, so I returned because I want to be a part of that, and I hope eventually you will be to. Sorry if I ever felt like I was more of the problem then a help, I have missed you since you stepped away

In all honesty, please don't beat yourself up about it. While I can't speak from experience because Chromebook (though I'm hoping to get a proper computer next year or whenever I get a job that means I can save up for one), I could imagine that hosting a tournament can get a bit stressful. After all, you're having to scorinate a whole bunch of matches and, while that number starts to whittle down after a certain point, there's still the possibility of a suss result getting out and people getting angry at you even though it wasn't your fault. I won't say "never host again" but I will say "host some minor tournaments, such as regional tourneys or even the WJHC (which doesn't bother with rankings), just so you can build your confidence up again". It's another reason why I felt guilty about bringing you up in my post, simply because I think you went in too quick instead of trying to build up a portfolio and getting to grips with it first.

Tell you what, when WCoH 41 starts back up again how about my team does a pre-competition tour of your nation? It'll basically be just friendlies against some local teams before a big match against your national team at the end, nothing too massive really. I won't care what the scores or results are, I just want to resurrect the Icy/Ice Elephants* - Ducks rivalry and just have fun with this sport again. One condition, though: Please post the scores as "home vs away".

P.S. If you wish, I can link to the ice hockey megathread on NSG, just in case you wish to talk about the IRL aspect of the sport so you don't have to worry about waiting however long for the IC stuff. As it's the NHL Draft, I imagine there might be some activity over the next day or so. Don't worry, it's actually quite non-toxic.

* I'm planning on changing it to "Ice Elephants", not through a retcon but by some other means I haven't figured out yet. Ice-a-phants is another possibility.

I can attest to the apathy, as voter turnout was low or non existent if I didn't pressure people to vote and engagement with the HCL got to a point where I didn't feel like running it when only 8 users were signing up.

A genuine thank you for bringing that up. It certainly explains why the HCL has/had been dormant for so long (to the point where I seriously question why it hasn't been officially ended yet) and the lack of elections. Now it's just figuring out why we've been so apathetic but, most importantly, how to keep a steady level of interest.

[Havl]

Count me down as likewise interested, though if you would prefer to discuss them privately I also understand.

Note: This post, which I wrote a week or two ago in Google Docs, is both an answer to Fluvannia and Savojarna and a post explaining why I retired from NS ice hockey in the first place, which is probably why it feels so janky to read.

---

Normally I would've stayed away from this whole thing. I would've stayed happily retired from ice hockey and the only time I would've touched the sport on this site with a hundred-foot pole is in the megathread over in NSG. I didn't even want to retire in the first place but I just felt like I've had enough of everything going on with the IC version of this sport. But Quebec and I have been talking off and on for the past few months over on Discord and he's been telling me that things are changing and reminding me how I used to be a driver for this sport; I'm not sure how right that is but as a few people have used my idea of separate left and right defencemen (something I'm perfectly alright as I think someone else did it before me and even if they didn't feel free to use it anyway) I guess there's an element of truth to it. After mulling it over, and seeing that the 40th edition of the World Cup of Hockey actually went well, I've decided to try and get back into it. But not before explaining WHY I left this whole thing in the first place, along with my general dissatisfaction I was having at the time:

• Complete apathy from the community. When I tried to get a World Cup of Hockey going back in August 2018, I was rudely ignored (but more on that later) and sign-ups for the 38th edition opened in November, about nine or ten months after the last one. When Neu Engollon won that, only one or two people congratulated the host; I was apparently the only one to congratulate Ngol himself and and it was through a Discord DM in the middle of a conversation we were having. The HCL and WJHC had also been neglected for the longest time, with someone having to start their own tournament in the meantime just so there could be club ice hockey again. I was willing to accept someone apparently badly done rankings just so we could have updated rankings. What happened? Why did we all just give up on this? Ice hockey's one of the biggest sports on the planet, especially in North America where I assume the majority of us WCoH regulars and former regulars are from, so I don't get why we just left it to rot unceremoniously.
• Questionable hosting. I understand that iffy tournaments are part and parcel of NS Sports. I once won a cricket tournament by only posting a roster (which may seem like an achievement but I felt it was unfair, especially on Mattijana and Liventia who produced quality RPs and would've been more worthy winners), Neu Engollon and I think a couple of other people had to scramble to finish the 4th R7WC because the host left without warning mid-tournament and, IIRC, a Rugby World Cup had to be abandoned partway through because of how iffy the results got. But, for whatever reason, the WCoH saw a LOT of this in the 30s. We had ranked teams with rosters and RPs drawing or even losing to unranked teams who provide neither. We had hosts going AWOL mid-tournament without any backup plans. We had results that were less "Margaret" and more "shenanigans". And, while I still respect him a lot ICly and OOCly and felt like a proud dad when his side deservedly finally beat mine for the first time, we had Anthor accidentally proving why away@home outside of baseball and related sports is absolute donkeyshit and needs to die; I honestly apologise if this feels like I'm picking on you or anything mate as this is the only time I'm naming names but, if you end up hosting again, PLEASE leave the results as is.
  
  And, while I'm not sure when exactly these happened so any of them may be before WCoH 30, I'm not forgetting about the last two WJHCs I was in. One saw the aforementioned problem of teams with no rosters or RPs quite easily beating those who had posted both, to the point where Quebec had to get up an RP about one of his refs engaging in match-fixing just to explain it. And the other one, sometime after that, saw the host give little to no indication that the IC thread was up until around MD1, leaving a number of people (myself included) no real time or mood to post anything. Again I'm not sure WHEN these were and, since they were years ago, they might've actually happened differently to how I remembered it. But they were still worth sharing.
• Lack of elections for four real life years. This could easily go with the "apathy" point I made earlier but I feel like this is worth a special mention. Valanora and I were elected WCoH President and VP respectively in April 2016. We had another election in December that year and we retained our roles. After that, hardly anything until we had to force elections before WCoH40. We tried to get elections running a few years ago but the results weren't posted, presumably because hardly anyone voted or nominated people and, even if they did, it was probably to keep things the same. I tried to get elections underway at one point because Valanora decided to step down and I didn't want the top job but the post was deleted and things stayed the same; apparently she decided to stay on if I didn't want the presidential job but I didn't know that at the time because I wasn't told. I didn't even want the VP job in the first place because I had no real plans for the tournament and I wouldn't know what to do but went along with it because it could be fun. Oh God, how wrong I was.
  
  With all that elections biz out of the way, I am going to apologise to Valanora for how sucky of a VP I was. While I feel like we could've communicated better, especially since I've been on Discord for a few years now, that does not excuse me for not pulling my own weight. I could've and should've done more than update sign-ups and I feel bad about leaving you with the heavy stuff. You don't have to accept my apology even if you wanted to and we don't have to be friends, as we never were in the first place. I just want any beef between us to remain IC if possible.
• Being rudely ignored. This is an incredibly minor point, which is why I saved it for last. But this was the straw that broke he camel's back, the moment where I decided to give up on this whole sport. Before WCoH38 I wanted to get some friendlies done so my players could be warmed up and ready to compete. But, since at the time the friendlies thread had been quiet for months, I asked TWICE if I should resurrect it or start a new one. Both times I didn't get an answer, even though it was just a simple yes or no question that didn't need a multi-paragraph answer. The only thing that came close to an answer was an unranked nation misreading the question and offering a match. Eventually, I got an answer from Neu Engollon… after the tournament was over and thus there was no point in answering, though I still genuinely thank him for it. I also suspect for one reason or another that this point in general is why I sucked that tournament as, despite being ranked in the top ten and producing both roster and a pre-tourney RP (however copy and paste it might be because me), I got blown out of the water by S&T, lost in a shootout to someone ranked MUCH lower than me and only got wins against unranked opponents.

And before anyone asks: No, I'm not on the NS Sports Discord server. Even though it's not as bad as people have made it out to be, I'm still not going there even if you had the world's most attractive men and women offering me a lifetime supply of tuna footlongs, bottomless bags of yoghurt-coated Skittles and baskets of kittens and cats to cuddle up to.

In all seriousness, I don't want us to start tabula rasa with a new international ice hockey competition. I want the World Cup of Hockey to be the great competition it was years ago. I want the World Junior Hockey Championships and Hockey Champions League to be fun little side-tournaments. I have faith that Banija will be the man to do all of that and more, as I heard good things about him. But we all have to get back on the ball and keep it rolling. And, most importantly, we should all try and get ourselves out of this dark age.

I'm not also trying to be all "people trying to be the king but the ace is back" with this post either. Simply because a) there are some excellent people who are still taking part in this, some of whom are better than me and b) if there's anyone worthy of that plagiarised and sanitised Dr. Dre lyric, it'd be Havl, who I also want to apologise to. In hindsight, it was incredibly dickish of my guys to celebrate beating yours in group stage matches, simply because the power of retcon showed that my guys have been a decent force for decades. Even if they weren't that's still not a cool thing to do. Even if you're not bothered by it and it's not why you also haven't participated in a long time, I'm still going to apologise because I want to get it off my chest.

Right, unnecessarily long post over. If I suck at the upcoming WJHC but it's because I didn't do a roster or RP, then I might still mull over a WCoH41 sign-up.

Hope to see y'all on the ice soon,
- EJM

You’ve identified reasons you left the community. Have these things improved? Or do they seem less important to you now?

[Neu Engollon]

I have advocated for this before, but I will second it again. Please WCoH Executives, put the link to the transfer/trade sheet into the OP of this thread. There is literally no reason not to.

Christ please, it'd be so much help.

In constructing my roster for this WJHC, I have aged out several players from the U20 who will move on to either my NEHL minor and pro clubs, or to foreign clubs. I will be putting some of them up on the much mentioned transfer/trades sheet should anyone be interested in Neu Engollian players. Just a heads up to look at it if this does interest you.

EDIT: I have thoughts on Elejamie's posts, but I'm waiting to see what others have to say first.

[Elejamie]

You’ve identified reasons you left the community. Have these things improved? Or do they seem less important to you now?

Kind of. We've had elections and we've got a new President, which is a start. The "questionable hosting" thing isn't really that important, especially when compared to how apathetic we as a community we had all gotten, but it's still something we should keep an occasional eye on. No, not that important full stop.

[Northwest Kalactin]

We had results that were less "Margaret" and more "shenanigans". I honestly apologise if this feels like I'm picking on you or anything mate as this is the only time I'm naming names but, if you end up hosting again, PLEASE leave the results as is.

I am not aware of any of these cases, and sorry if I am bringing up an old incident, but if we have hosts altering results, then there are some serious problems that need to be fixed. Never, under any circumstance should a host be changing the results before posting them, major or minor.

[Kelssek]

I think Elejamie raises some very valid issues. Let me suggest some stuff in response. I'd very gently suggest that people probably didn't mean to be rude and ignore you, but it's more that this became a lower priority and there was a general lack of interest, which I think is more what you are getting at.

Before I went on hiatus, the way most sports were run was quite ad-hoc. Someone felt it was time for a new World Cup of Hockey, a thread was started, people signed up and bid, someone people trusted collected votes, and away we went. These days, we feel the need for formal committees and executives and constitutions. While clear rules and organization are needed for big and complex events like the soccer World Cup and maybe the Olympics, I struggle to think of any other sport where it's necessary and the old ad-hoc way wouldn't work just as well.

However nice and competent the person elected as federation president, it leaves starting a new WCoH (which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty much all that it does) up to one person who might forget, go inactive, get busy with other things, etc. I'm not saying start over, I'm saying let's try freeing the WCoH from unnecessary procedure.

[Fluvannia]

I think Elejamie raises some very valid issues. Let me suggest some stuff in response. I'd very gently suggest that people probably didn't mean to be rude and ignore you, but it's more that this became a lower priority and there was a general lack of interest, which I think is more what you are getting at.

Before I went on hiatus, the way most sports were run was quite ad-hoc. Someone felt it was time for a new World Cup of Hockey, a thread was started, people signed up and bid, someone people trusted collected votes, and away we went. These days, we feel the need for formal committees and executives and constitutions. While clear rules and organization are needed for big and complex events like the soccer World Cup and maybe the Olympics, I struggle to think of any other sport where it's necessary and the old ad-hoc way wouldn't work just as well.

However nice and competent the person elected as federation president, it leaves starting a new WCoH (which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty much all that it does) up to one person who might forget, go inactive, get busy with other things, etc. I'm not saying start over, I'm saying let's try freeing the WCoH from unnecessary procedure.

Alternatively, it could be beneficial to have some sort of "hard start" date -- "signups open no later than January 15th", or something, so that any member who wants to post a signup thread can do so if the person officially responsible is unavailable. In some ways that's adding a procedure, but in other ways it's less restrictive, I dunno, just a thought.

[Savojarna]

We had results that were less "Margaret" and more "shenanigans". I honestly apologise if this feels like I'm picking on you or anything mate as this is the only time I'm naming names but, if you end up hosting again, PLEASE leave the results as is.

I am not aware of any of these cases, and sorry if I am bringing up an old incident, but if we have hosts altering results, then there are some serious problems that need to be fixed. Never, under any circumstance should a host be changing the results before posting them, major or minor.

I am not 100% sure if I remember this correctly, but IIRC, the only thing that happened was that xkoranate's standard produces hockey results the way the Gods intended in home-away format, but Anthor (who ran the tournament as a home-away double RR, which I was and am against in the first place, but that's irrelevant for now) wanted to post them as away-home. Hence, they had to manually rearrange them, and made some errors in the process. So, there wasnt any actual result changing, just (botched) reformatting.

[Elejamie]

I am not aware of any of these cases, and sorry if I am bringing up an old incident, but if we have hosts altering results, then there are some serious problems that need to be fixed. Never, under any circumstance should a host be changing the results before posting them, major or minor.

I am not 100% sure if I remember this correctly, but IIRC, the only thing that happened was that xkoranate's standard produces hockey results the way the Gods intended in home-away format, but Anthor (who ran the tournament as a home-away double RR, which I was and am against in the first place, but that's irrelevant for now) wanted to post them as away-home. Hence, they had to manually rearrange them, and made some errors in the process. So, there wasnt any actual result changing, just (botched) reformatting.

That's actually exactly what happened. Which lead to a situation where, in the semi-finals of the 36th edition, it seemed like I had beaten the Alpine Union/USAR 4-3 in OT and yet he made it through to the final instead. In fact, it turned out that AU HAD actually beaten me 4-3 in OT, it's just that Anthor had forgotten to switch the names around when he posted the scores. While I seemed a bit cordial when he apologised for the mistake, in reality I was actually quite pissed off about it as you would expect, though fortunately it was one of those things where if you give me a few hours to calm down I'd be a lot better; not to mention it wouldn't be the only time I got screwed over due to a mistake on someone else's end but that's a different story.

I think Elejamie raises some very valid issues. Let me suggest some stuff in response. I'd very gently suggest that people probably didn't mean to be rude and ignore you, but it's more that this became a lower priority and there was a general lack of interest, which I think is more what you are getting at.

Before I went on hiatus, the way most sports were run was quite ad-hoc. Someone felt it was time for a new World Cup of Hockey, a thread was started, people signed up and bid, someone people trusted collected votes, and away we went. These days, we feel the need for formal committees and executives and constitutions. While clear rules and organization are needed for big and complex events like the soccer World Cup and maybe the Olympics, I struggle to think of any other sport where it's necessary and the old ad-hoc way wouldn't work just as well.

However nice and competent the person elected as federation president, it leaves starting a new WCoH (which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty much all that it does) up to one person who might forget, go inactive, get busy with other things, etc. I'm not saying start over, I'm saying let's try freeing the WCoH from unnecessary procedure.

Alternatively, it could be beneficial to have some sort of "hard start" date -- "signups open no later than January 15th", or something, so that any member who wants to post a signup thread can do so if the person officially responsible is unavailable. In some ways that's adding a procedure, but in other ways it's less restrictive, I dunno, just a thought.

Both of these could work. As minor and a admittedly flexible as it is, rugby sevens now has some kind of schedule based off of my failed Sevens Series idea, where we kick things off with Neu Engollon's AVBF Sevens in August/September and finish off with the Rugby Sevens World Cup in March/April, probably later. Of course, there's trying to not only get other sevens tournaments going in the meantime and making sure that they don't overlap with union and league but, overall, it does kind of work in a way. I'd say that we could have a schedule for this, even if it's only a temporary one until this becomes popular enough we can go back to the ad-hoc method again. That way, we won't have to worry about WCoHs being held 9-10 months after the last one or things like the HCL and WJHC being pushed aside to the point they might as well be disbanded due to lack of interest.

P.S. I am fully aware that no one intentionally meant to be rude and ignore me but it was still genuinely quite annoying. I still thank you for the explanation.

[Graintfjall]

I've been on and off in NS ice hockey (mostly off) for 10 years. I hosted a couple of WCsoH in 2010 and they were well RPed, while the domestic ice hockey championship was vibrant. Ice hockey felt like the second biggest sport, although baseball was catching up. I hosted another couple tourneys, a WCoH and a WJHC, 2014-2016, and I was a bit disappointed how little they were RPed, while domestic ice hockey seemed quite stagnant. The recent WCoH I participated in was very well RPed again, and there were plenty of people RPing their domestic leagues once more. I think ice hockey, as is true of most non-soccerball sports, goes in fits and starts of activity. I'm pleased to see it's on the upswing again but I think we should be cautious in ascribing too much of that to grand institutional factors rather than simply the natural fluctuations of interest. I also agree with KSK's point about committees and presidents, which seem rather ubiquitous now, as opposed to just "here's a signup thread, here's a host vote, let's go".

[Ontorisa]

Would anyone want some of their players in the OJL? I'm gonna be dotting up a Top 100 Free Agents for the OJL and was curious if anyone wanted to insert some players into there.

EDIT: Also added the transfer spreadsheet to my sig for easier access.

[Elejamie]

Not the OP but just to be safe, especially with how the forums have been today: The IC thread for the 15th WJHC is now up, so if you're participating it might be worth getting your rosters and that ready for Monday/Tuesday. depending on where you are in the world. You can still submit them after, of course, it's just that it would be ideal to get it up before then to stand a good chance in the competition.

EDIT: Also added the transfer spreadsheet to my sig for easier access.

Thanks, hopefully that'll lead to a lot more use.

[Ontorisa]

EDIT: Also added the transfer spreadsheet to my sig for easier access.

Thanks, hopefully that'll lead to a lot more use.

Fingers crossed.

[Fluvannia]

Not the OP but just to be safe, especially with how the forums have been today: The IC thread for the 15th WJHC is now up, so if you're participating it might be worth getting your rosters and that ready for Monday/Tuesday. depending on where you are in the world. You can still submit them after, of course, it's just that it would be ideal to get it up before then to stand a good chance in the competition.

Correct, I encourage everyone participating to get rosters and initial roleplays in as soon as possible. The 32 participants are now set; groups will be revealed tomorrow night. MatchDay 1 is Monday, with a single round-robin.

[Ontorisa]

Would anyone be opposed if I also posted in the IC thread with newswires of OJL teams watching the WJHC players?

[Fluvannia]

Would anyone be opposed if I also posted in the IC thread with newswires of OJL teams watching the WJHC players?

I wouldn't have any issue with that, myself.

[Ontorisa]

Would anyone be opposed if I also posted in the IC thread with newswires of OJL teams watching the WJHC players?

I wouldn't have any issue with that, myself.

Sick, that'd be minty considering I have the OJL Draft coming up and need to round out the draft rankings.

[Banija]

Just to say, with the Juniors about to go underway, it'll be towards the end of the group stages when I'll get the signup thread up for the main event. So about a week or so from now? Just so we're all on the same page.

Best of luck to all in the juniors!

[Elejamie]

Question: Why do I keep drawing? Because this is now the third draw I've had in a row now. Sure I didn't post an RP until last night and, even then, it was admittedly not that good because I've been busy these past couple of days. I'm not annoyed or frustrated or anything like that, just wondering.

[Fluvannia]

Question: Why do I keep drawing? Because this is now the third draw I've had in a row now. Sure I didn't post an RP until last night and, even then, it was admittedly not that good because I've been busy these past couple of days. I'm not annoyed or frustrated or anything like that, just wondering.

If I had to guess, it would be because the skill values for all the teams are in a pretty tight range, which is done since there aren't really any rankings to go off for WJHC.

That being said, you were given RP credit for MD 1 and 3 (roster counting for MD 1), as was Sarzonia. Kohnhead has credit for MD1, though Graintfjall hasn't posted at all, so I am surprised you didn't beat them.

[Ontorisa]

for those on the 15th WJHC, apologies for the wall of text, I felt like I needed to give a write-up of my team for my sake.