The World Bowl Discussion Thread (OOC, version II)

[Free Republics]

Are you ready for some football? World Bowl XXXIII signups are now open!

Quoted the above so it doesn't get lost as the last post on the previous page.

There's another important matter besides World Bowl signups and the ongoing process to select my replacement as WBA President. I'm also looking for somebody to take over as the ranking updater going forward. Just to make it easier for whoever takes over (and to hopefully ensure it is never forgotten), I'll explain the ranking system:

There are 3 numbers below each World Bowl heading. The left-most one is each team's total number of wins (draws, if the host allowed them, count as half a win). The middle one is the total number of games played by that team. The right-most one is a multiplier, which is either 10 (if the team did not make the playoffs) or 15 (if the team made the playoffs). The champion of each World Bowl is credited with 1 win, 1 game played and a 15 multiplier.

The formula that determines the ranks, which is automated on the current spreadsheet, is as follows:

For the most recent World Bowl, (Wins/Games Played)*Multiplier or (if champion) 15 points
For the second most recent World Bowl, (Wins/Games Played)*Multiplier/2 or (if champion) 7.5 points
For the third most recent World Bowl, (Wins/Games Played)*Multiplier/4 or (if champion) 3.75 points

The sum of all 3 is the team's ranking.

[Drawkland]

I'll volunteer to become the new rank updater.

[Union of Socialist Alpine Republics]

^
^
Sounds easy when explained!

[Aggrey-Fynn Land]

Can nations competing in the World Bowl for the first time enter a puppet?

[Kaboomlandia]

Can nations competing in the World Bowl for the first time enter a puppet?

From the signup thread, looks like you can, but I'd personally recommend leaving it at one nation if it's your first World Bowl to get to know the tournament. Not any binding rule, just some advice.

[World Bowl]

Can nations competing in the World Bowl for the first time enter a puppet?

From the signup thread, looks like you can, but I'd personally recommend leaving it at one nation if it's your first World Bowl to get to know the tournament. Not any binding rule, just some advice.

That's correct. Anybody can enter a puppet but its generally only a good idea to do that if you actually plan on RPing both nations or if it is needed for numbers.

[Newmanistan]

Would people be ok with a Sept 1st start date for this tournament? (and no earlier)
It's a little late, but if another host bid is needed here, I would be interested, but I couldn't do it before 9/1.

[Free Republics]

Would people be ok with a Sept 1st start date for this tournament? (and no earlier)
It's a little late, but if another host bid is needed here, I would be interested, but I couldn't do it before 9/1.

I'm not going to be active regardless but I did rush the timetable a bit because I'm planning on taking an indefinite break from NS as soon as the vote to select my replacement is over (for RL reasons). Personally, if I was hosting I'd likely hold the start date off until around the start of the NFL season and if I wasn't trying to finish my presidential term ASAP, the bidding deadline would probably have been the first game of the NFL season (with signups opening sometime this week instead of when they actually did). Resigning wouldn't be a viable option right now as the current VP is one of the candidates to be my successor.

In short, the host of the World Bowl this cycle should not feel bound to start the tournament immediately after the host vote concludes though I think it would be a bad idea to close signups earlier than a week before the start date. That said, September 1st wouldn't even be that late given that the results of the vote will probably be announced on the night of the 22nd or the morning of the 23rd.

[Qasden]

The NS Sports Fanta(sy) League is here! Spots are limited, so make sure you sign up at this link right here. The password is Qasden07.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

The NS Sports Fanta(sy) League is here! Spots are limited, so make sure you sign up at this link right here. The password is Qasden07.

Error: I do not have permission to view that page.

Edit: figured it out. You have to go to home page, say you're accepting an invite, enter id 5107264 Nd the password. Also, I won't be able to make the live draft but I have my rankings set.

[Kaboomlandia]

As Allamunnic States doesn't actually seem to have accepted his nomination and hasn't signed up for this tournament yet, I nominate Cosumar.

[Free Republics]

As Allamunnic States doesn't actually seem to have accepted his nomination and hasn't signed up for this tournament yet, I nominate Cosumar.

And I second Cosumar's nomination in the interest of getting him to 2 nominations as quickly as possible.

A sidenote: The Constitution does not place a limit on how many nominations a single user can make so I'm seconding all nominations. Even if you already nominated a candidate, you can still nominate additional candidates whom you think would make good presidents.

[Allamunnic States]

I'll accept my nomination. Also, I've now signed up for 33. Not to worry.

[Free Republics]

Results of the vote are up. Just in case there are any more matters requiring a presidential decision during the remainder of my term, I'm going to resign the presidency right now to ensure that they are resolved in a speedy manner.

[Newmanistan]

So, we have a different system being used for the Group Draw here whicich should have been mentioned in the host bid. I do not like the group draw. I feel like it puts me personally in a "why bother" position in regards to RP, (I know, people will say "RP anyway", but my time is precious, and I don't have time to "RP anyway" if there is not a potential benefit for it) and it upsets me to see another group essentially full of unranked teams (this is what upsets me, more, actually. Not my group).

The World Bowl needed a kickstart after the complete overall RP'ing dud that was World Bowl 32, which was not Bongo's fault at all. Maybe that's what Bongo is trying to do here, and maybe it will work. However for me, I have to say it has the opposite effect.

[Newmanistan]

Actually...

I am hereby requesting Presidential intervention here...

Xkoranate will be used, with the "Post World Bowl XXXI" SQIS-IFAF overtime ruleset. All matches will be played within Bongo Johnson in true "World Cup" style. There are no home field advantages for teams selected as the "home" team.

"True World Cup Style" means a conventional group draw with pots.
Therefore, I believe the group draw has significantly wavered from the bid itself and would like a statement from the President concerning this before we proceed.

My suggestions are either:
1) Require Bongo Johnson to do as stated in the bid, and have a "true World Cup style" format.
or
2) Have a re-vote on host bids knowing this is Bongo Johnson's intention.

[Bongo Johnson]

Contextually, that part of the bid refers specifically to games being played within Bongo Johnson. This is important because the other bids included games being played in the home team's nation (and one bid including a home team advantage). That section has nothing to do with the group draw, nor is the process for the group draw method outlined whatsoever in the bid. This is my fault for not including it, of course. However, there is simply no need for "presidential intervention" because your point is moot as you just misinterpreted that sentence. Again, I should have included group draw information in the bid to begin with, but XXXIII has been started exactly as I outlined it.

Coincidentally however, cross-quoting from here

All those ranked teams in one group and barely any high ranked teams in another.. I RP for the story, so I'll go with it, but that doesn't seem like a good set of groups, to be honest. I'd consider standard pots in the future...

If the consensus is a bad draw, it certainly wouldn't be much work to re-draw and have standard pots at this point, so long as the majority believe it will make for a better World Bowl. Like I said before, I made changes to the way I calculated and sorted teams. I guess I should have listened to the old mantra "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" because I think we had a very reasonable tournament in XXXII.

[Newmanistan]

I respectfully disagree that I have interpreted that sentence in a manner that it is not correct. It may have not been the interpretation you were aiming for, but it is a fair and legitimate interpretation. You stated that the games are held in Bongo Johnson in a true World Cup style. World Cup style entails a group draw, in which pots are used. As you did not specify, which you acknowledge that you should have done, that the group draw would be different, then "World Cup style" applies to the whole enchilada, not just the fact the games are held in Bongo Johnson. What you should have done, and did not do, is not a minor detail; and may have held people vote for one of the other bids if they were aware of this. This is why Presidential intervention is necessary, because a major detail was left out that may have significantly impacted the voting period.

I humbly request that you scrap the draw you have done, as you did not state that in your bid, and do a conventional group draw. A couple other nations have already questioned this in the signup thread as well, so I do believe the best plan of action is to acknowledge the significant impact of what you forgot to mention in your bid and do the equitable thing.

[Bongo Johnson]

I wrote the bid, I know what I wrote, and your interpretation of that sentence is wrong. I have already offered to re-draw the groups, but one nation doesn't get to decide when the groups get redrawn. If it is going to be done, it should be a decision that other participating nations are involved in. One other nation has already leaned decidedly on the side of "re-drawing the groups", but you don't get to just demand changes because you don't like something. That is not how the World Bowl Assembly operates, and you know that. You are excessively outraged over something that is easy and simple to fix, and I suggest you re-read the NationStates Etiquette section on flamebaiting before continuing this argument. Your posts, with the exception of your first one, are increasingly provocative.

[Bojikstan]

For what it's worth, I'm on the re-draw the groups side. There's at least two 'Groups of Death' here, and a couple of groups that are 'Groups of Life'. I really think it would be better to have more balance, and a World Cup style format does make it sound like there would be drawn groups with pots.

[Union of Socialist Alpine Republics]

I preffer you re-draw the groups cuz they're too much uneven. There's 2 or 3 groups of death and Québec's group with a bunch of unranked teams.

[Vangaziland]

No worries Bongo, I'm sure you have good intentions. I'm ready to work on the story, I should put a post up but I'm waiting on another event. There's plenty of time before the first match. If there's a re-draw, I'm sure it'll only help the story and RP numbers. Regardless, I'll try to make a story of it. I don't expect to go too far, so I'll have fun writing picks and fumbles and such either way. That kind of thing can be fun.

I'm also kind of always shopping my players off to domestic teams, so if any of my characters seem interesting, they're up for leagues.

[Kaboomlandia]

I'm hesitant to call directly for retooling the groups because my team would benefit, but just look at the first two groups. In A, you have three of the top 11 teams with four unranked sides, but in B, one of the top 8 teams in the world will miss the playoffs. And unless Quebec completely phones in the group stage he's basically guaranteed a playoff spot because he's in with FFR (who is quitting NS) and five unranked teams.

[Bongo Johnson]

These are all very rational and fair arguments for re-drawing the groups. Arguing semantics of the host bid is not.

Considering the circumstances and the fact that Free Republics resigned as president shortly after announcing the result of host voting, it seems counter-productive to waste time holding an official vote on re-drawing the groups. Respectfully, the groups will be re-drawn tomorrow with a traditional pot-based draw. The Everything thread will be updated with the pots and the result of the draw sometime tomorrow night.

Although, by all means, if taking it to an official vote is the proper thing to do, then let's do it. There is plenty of time to make that happen, and MD1 can always be pushed back a couple days to accommodate this.

[World Bowl]

Alright, sorry about not intervening sooner (there's been unforeseen RL circumstances rearing their heads in the last couple of days).

So, as President, what I'm going to say on this is that, after rereading through this, Newmanistan's inferences regarding the way the draw would be conducted were not unreasonable (I admit that I, as a participant, did also make the same assumption based on the lack of other information on the matter in the host bid; things tend to be done a certain way, so in the absence of a statement to the contrary, I assumed the bid was sticking with the usual).

The tone of this conversation has gotten a bit heated, but I would appreciate if we could refrain from accusations of flame-baiting here outside of the most flagrant of cases. That said, I will also ask all involved, including Newmanistan, to please calm down just a little bit; as much as we all enjoy this, it is a game.

Seeing as Bongo Johnson has agreed to redraw the groups, and the general support for that in the other responses in this thread, a re-vote on the hosting bids is unnecessary, and we can proceed with the new groups. Bongo Johnson, I appreciate your flexibility on this.

Hopefully, with all of this said and done, we can all move on with the World Bowl.

With the next World Bowl sign-up, provided this is acceptable to all (we can have a proper proposal and vote on it, if you all think that is more fitting), I will leave a note in the host bid guidelines that draws have typically been conducted with pots, and so, unless a bid specifies otherwise, the assumption will be that group draws will be conducted that same way. I suggest this due to the fact that this is the second time in my memory that we've had somewhat heated disagreements based on an unexpectedly-different group draw method (we had an instance of this in World Bowl IX which also created an infamous "Group of Death", although I realize that was before many here were involved), so it may be useful to head off such misunderstandings in the future.

~Fanboy

[Edit Note: corrected a typo that I missed the first time. Added line to indicate that this is Fanboy, and that I have accepted the presidency due to Cosumar's ceding of the office. Added explanation for note proposal in final paragraph.]