The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, Version IV)

[Audioslavia]

I think the precedent is that a returning user can only sign up one nation in their first cup back. For example, when Vilita returned to the WC properly for cycle 57, they couldn't sign up Turori as a puppet straight away. Turori's return had to wait until cycle 58.

If The Holy Empire's KPBs drop to zero, they'd be able to sign up to the Baptism of Fire tournament in their first cup back. 'The Audioslavia route', though we definitely weren't the first.

[South Covello]

I think the precedent is that a returning user can only sign up one nation in their first cup back. For example, when Vilita returned to the WC properly for cycle 57, they couldn't sign up Turori as a puppet straight away. Turori's return had to wait until cycle 58.

If The Holy Empire's KPBs drop to zero, they'd be able to sign up to the Baptism of Fire tournament in their first cup back. 'The Audioslavia route', though we definitely weren't the first.

Technically, the way the rule is worded, a nation who lost every game in each of the last three World Cup cycles (or didn't participate in one or two of them and lost every single game when they did participate) would be eligible if they haven't participated before, since their rank would be zero. So in theory THE could get incredibly unlucky and lose every single game for three cycles, and then it would be eligible without missing a cycle. Not going to happen, but it could. More plausibly, a nation could sign up, not participate in the BoF, lose every single game in qualifying (which depending on the scorinator, could be quite possible if they don't RP since they wouldn't have a rank) and then sign up for the BoF the next cycle along with their puppet. This would also enable them to evade some, but not all, of the more explicit wordings Legalese and others proposed.

[Mriin]

World Cup 85 Host Announcement

Pots (and Farf's cutoff times) have been added to the RP thread OP. The draw will take place on the 20th, which is either much later today or tomorrow depending on your timezone, and we're planning for MD1 to be on Saturday the 23rd.

Edit: Pots were slightly off, as I'd missed a few nations that were mistakenly marked as unranked. They've since been fixed up.

[Legalese]

Taking Audio's comments on precedent I'll leave this here. I can't officially propose this as I won't regain my WCC active status until after this cup, but here's what I'd write if I were updating this to clarify the issue:

Amend 2.2.1 to read as follows (update underlined):

2.2.1 Entry
The conditions for entry into the BoF are:
i) A nation must not have previously participated in a WCC-sanctioned Baptism of Fire
ii) A nation must have zero KPB points at the beginning of the World Cup cycle
iii) A nation must have signed up for the World Cup in the appropriate Signup Thread and also indicated a wish to enter the Baptism of Fire. A nation not eligible for the World Cup (see 2.3.1) will not count as having signed up for this purpose.
iv) Only one nation may be permitted per user -- no user may enter two nations in the same Baptism of Fire.

Amend 2.3.1 as follows (changes underlined):

2.3.1 Entry
The conditions for entry into the World Cup are:
i) A nation must have signed up for the World Cup in the appropriate Signup Thread
ii) A user may only sign one nation they control up for the World Cup. If they sign up a nation that participated in the immediately preceding World Cup, they may sign up a second nation, referred to as a puppet. This puppet must be declared as one by the user signing up the main nation to be eligible for the World Cup.

The tweaks do the following:
1) Limit each user to one nation per Baptism of Fire
2) Clarifies the World Cup entry rules to only allow a second nation to a user if they participated in the World Cup before -- that is, using Audio's example, it means that if Vilita and Turori didn't enter World Cup 86, VilTur would only be allowed to enter one in World Cup 87. It also would have meant that my puppet (Novapsolu) would have been ineligible this time, since I didn't participate in WC84.

[The Archregimancy]

I think the precedent is that a returning user can only sign up one nation in their first cup back. For example, when Vilita returned to the WC properly for cycle 57, they couldn't sign up Turori as a puppet straight away. Turori's return had to wait until cycle 58.

If The Holy Empire's KPBs drop to zero, they'd be able to sign up to the Baptism of Fire tournament in their first cup back. 'The Audioslavia route', though we definitely weren't the first.

Ah, but there would be a way around that as well under current rules.

I could enter the Holy Empire and a puppet - let's call it 'The Oneiromancer' - in the next World Cup.

I could then withdraw the Holy Empire, and continue to play as The Oneiromancer until I run the Holy Empire's KPB points down to zero.

I could then stop playing as The Oneiromancer, and then in the very next World Cup enter both the Holy Empire and the Archregimancy, attempting to enter both into the BoF. RP continuity excuses could likely be found without too much difficulty given how I've used the Oneiromancer as an off-screen character in the past. I wouldn't be a returning user in those circumstances, but rather a continuing user re-entering different - though inactive - nations; and that precedent would be against me isn't quite the same as the rules being against me. There would be no rule against it.

Not that I would ever plan on initiating this frankly bizarre piece of advanced bridge-burning idiocy; I merely outline that it would be technically possible.


Anyway, Legalese's recommended amendments neatly resolve the issue, and would explicitly make the above scenario impossible. If someone doesn't beat me to it, next time I log on as the Holy Empire I might even propose them formally.

[Blouman Empire]

I could then stop playing as The Oneiromancer, and then in the very next World Cup enter both the Holy Empire and the Archregimancy, attempting to enter both into the BoF. RP continuity excuses could likely be found without too much difficulty given how I've used the Oneiromancer as an off-screen character in the past. I wouldn't be a returning user in those circumstances, but rather a continuing user re-entering different - though inactive - nations; and that precedent would be against me isn't quite the same as the rules being against me. There would be no rule against it.

Hmm I thought the rule already was against being able to enter the BoF again even with 0 KBP. I wanted to do that last time I took a break and came back (was about 3 years ago) and was told once you've participated in any NSWC event you can't compete in the BoF.


Also hello Arch, glad to see you're still here and hope you're going well

[Blouman Empire]

If The Holy Empire's KPBs drop to zero, they'd be able to sign up to the Baptism of Fire tournament in their first cup back. 'The Audioslavia route', though we definitely weren't the first.

I know it has been awhile but have the rules changed? This didn't used to be the case and is what I wanted to do and was told wasn't allowed. I would wait for the next BoF if it is now allowed currently but since it sounds like it is about to be changed doesn't matter.

[Blouman Empire]

Also who does kits these days?

[Audioslavia]

I know it has been awhile but have the rules changed? This didn't used to be the case and is what I wanted to do and was told wasn't allowed.

In your case, you entered the Baptism of Fire tournament pre-World Cup 39. The rule is that every team only gets one shot at the BoF.

The Holy Empire have never participated in the BoF, and Audioslavia hadn't played in it before our WC59 comeback.

Also who does kits these days?

I actually don't think there are any active storefronts right now, which is a shame. Lisander's One Stop Graphics Shop was last updated in early 2019 and has info about the most recent storefronts.

[Mriin]

World Cup 85 Host Announcement

The group draw has been added the RP thread OP! Additionally, we're confirming Matchday 1 to be Saturday, May 23rd (western time). The OP will continue to receive updates (roster links, matchups) soon.

[Barunia]

World Cup 85 Host Announcement

The group draw has been added the RP thread OP! Additionally, we're confirming Matchday 1 to be Saturday, May 23rd (western time). The OP will continue to receive updates (roster links, matchups) soon.

Western time? West of what? Europe? Africa? America? The fucking moon?

This is an international forum. Be specific.

[Sylestone]

World Cup 85 Host Announcement

The group draw has been added the RP thread OP! Additionally, we're confirming Matchday 1 to be Saturday, May 23rd (western time). The OP will continue to receive updates (roster links, matchups) soon.

Western time? West of what? Europe? Africa? America? The fucking moon?

This is an international forum. Be specific.

Mriin probably means US western time, but it could mean Western European time.

[PotatoFarmers]

World Cup 85 Host Announcement

The group draw has been added the RP thread OP! Additionally, we're confirming Matchday 1 to be Saturday, May 23rd (western time). The OP will continue to receive updates (roster links, matchups) soon.

Western time? West of what? Europe? Africa? America? The fucking moon?

This is an international forum. Be specific.

There is no need to be that brutal. It is written on the OP that it was EDT, if you actually bothered to read.

[Barunia]

Western time? West of what? Europe? Africa? America? The fucking moon?

This is an international forum. Be specific.

There is no need to be that brutal. It is written on the OP that it was EDT, if you actually bothered to read.

a) The confirmation of the matchday 1 was stated as an additional piece of information to that contained in the RP thread. So that does not imply the information is contained in said thread, but is provided here as an addition.

b) The RP thread lists times as EDt and the even more useful UTC, both of which are recognised forms of time zones. Western is not a time zone.

c) Unless I am mistaken, the E in EDT stands for Eastern? So the introduction of the phrase Western, with no additional context, is even more confusing.

EDIT: It seems Mriin has updated the RP thread OP to indicate what was meabt be Western time - that is, that the date was the date for the western hemisphere (so the EDT, not the UTC.) Thanks for that. It wasn't clear originall though, snd I still stand by my comments.

[Mriin]

There is no need to be that brutal. It is written on the OP that it was EDT, if you actually bothered to read.

a) The confirmation of the matchday 1 was stated as an additional piece of information to that contained in the RP thread. So that does not imply the information is contained in said thread, but is provided here as an addition.

b) The RP thread lists times as EDt and the even more useful UTC, both of which are recognised forms of time zones. Western is not a time zone.

c) Unless I am mistaken, the E in EDT stands for Eastern? So the introduction of the phrase Western, with no additional context, is even more confusing.

EDIT: It seems Mriin has updated the RP thread OP to indicate what was meabt be Western time - that is, that the date was the date for the western hemisphere (so the EDT, not the UTC.) Thanks for that. It wasn't clear originall though, snd I still stand by my comments.

That note was in the OP before I posted this here. The reason it's specified is, as you can tell from us listing both EDT and UTC, it straddles the 23rd and 24th.

[Valentine Z]

I err, I got a TG reminding me of this, which I really do appreciate, of course. I thought I was out after BoF, or is this something different?

Either way, unfortunately, I'm so sorry to say that I will probably not be participating in WC85 and would like to pull out if possible. It's not because of anything, but rather, my schedule is getting busier with schoolwork and I want to focus on my current RPs.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience! ><

[Savojarna]

I err, I got a TG reminding me of this, which I really do appreciate, of course. I thought I was out after BoF, or is this something different?

Either way, unfortunately, I'm so sorry to say that I will probably not be participating in WC85 and would like to pull out if possible. It's not because of anything, but rather, my schedule is getting busier with schoolwork and I want to focus on my current RPs.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience! ><

It's obviously still up to you, but generally there isn't anything wrong with participating without RP, and you may still net some KPB for the future!

[Donnacona]

I err, I got a TG reminding me of this, which I really do appreciate, of course. I thought I was out after BoF, or is this something different?

Either way, unfortunately, I'm so sorry to say that I will probably not be participating in WC85 and would like to pull out if possible. It's not because of anything, but rather, my schedule is getting busier with schoolwork and I want to focus on my current RPs.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience! ><

It's obviously still up to you, but generally there isn't anything wrong with participating without RP, and you may still net some KPB for the future!

Indeed, if you were to post your roster you'll get a small bonus and everyone else can still RP off of you.

[Valentine Z]

Retracting my statement, I am indeed participating and have added my roster (copied from BoF) into the roster thread. I am sorry for the inconvenience and trouble, but yeah, since it will involve a possible redraw with me quitting it, I figured I would stay.

Hopefully I might post once or twice in-between, or when everyone else is busy. I will see how it goes, because I know I have my own stuff, but I don't want to do the "All work and no play" myself. I might make a post now and then to indicate a change in formation and strats, but Valentians will mostly go for defensives instead of offensives.

Thanks for letting me reconsider as well! ^^ Rest-assured that it's not because of any drama, or anything of that sort. I just got incredibly busy all of a sudden (the last of the uni will do that to a person). ><

[Hapilopper]

Well I'm glad, because I'm pretty happy you and I are in the same group, Val.

[Sarzonia]

the EDT, not the UTC.) Thanks for that. It wasn't clear originall though, snd I still stand by my comments.

Standing by the sentiment that the wording was confusing is fine. I admit the wording had me confused and I live in the Eastern time zone.

I share Poafmersia's disappointment with the wording you used to express that sentiment. It was neither welcome nor necessary.

[Zwangzug]

MD1 for my groups (9-15) will be in about 23 hours from this post. Good luck!

[Martune]

Dipping my toes into new waters

[Ko-oren]

Belated, but still in time, here is the...

NS World Cup Fantasy Qualification

Link to the form!

Rest of the information is in my RP.

I'll leave the signups up until MD3 at least.

[Filindostan]

To those WC85Q participants who still need kits: NNS has partially reopened to attend to your football kit needs.