The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, Version IV)

[Starblaydia]

We just had a two-cycle calendar year for the first time in history. February 14th to June 7th for WC80 and June 24th to October 17th for WC71

Are we cool with this? Y/N?

If not, and we'd rather go back to the 3/4 cycles per year system, then users need to accept that, as the process takes a couple of months to complete (from the signup thread opening to the World Cup Final being played) that the signups to a World Cup will open a couple of weeks after the previous World Cup has been concluded. We always did it quicker than this in the past and we always had time for regional football tournaments, domestic football and other sporting events in the past too.

Nice prompt, Audio, and always good to throw statistics at us to back things up! With the current size of sign-ups, I'd say that two is either one, or possibly two, too few for an average year. This means we need the signups to open earlier to get the turnaround happening, but that in turns means we need bids and, crucially, bidders sooner.

For WC80 and 81, our main problem that stretched out the amount of time things took is that we had to wait forever for BoF hosts. For WC80, EQS and I bid early on purpose to put down a statement that we had already done all the preparation to make WC80 a really good edition. We had to wait a fairly long time for BoF host bids to come around. I felt that WC81 signups then actually started too early, but it wasn't for quite a long while that BoF bids arrived, then the thing could actually get started (after what felt to me) like a huge delay. Yet here we are, almost two months after WC81's completion with barely a murmur about WC82 from potentially-interested hosting parties.

I'd be willing to open the signups without any bids being on the table - I'm not suggesting we go back to the oldest days and start signups during the Finals of the ongoing tournament, of course - in between Christmas and the New Year in order to prod people into action. The Olympics and the holiday season is the most likely cause of the delay in this case, but I'd certainly like things to move a little quicker. There is plenty of time for regionals and junior WCs in the break, it's just about finding the right balance for the majority.

This also shows the impact of moving to these lovely and easy-to-access forums, as WC47 signups opened right here in May 2009.

[Savojarna]

I think BoF hosts are a bit in a difficult position as there seems to be an expectation of the hosts being quite experienced (which is good - new players shouldn't have to deal with unexperienced hosts messing things up) but at the same time the tournament isn't the most prestigious. People remember the WC hosts more than the BoF hosts, so to say. Therefore, you don't get many new-ish hosts (I'd consider myself ready to bid for a Copa or a CoH, especially if together with someone more experienced, but not for a BoF), but at the same time if I were an experienced host, I'd honestly also prefer to just shoot for the World Cup proper (assuming I have the time).

If that is indeed part of the problem, maybe it could be a solution to offer the BoF to the second-placed World Cup bid instead of making it a separate bid? If we want more checks and balances, we could always still decide to hold a confirmation vote on them.

[Oberour Ar Moro]

I agree with Savojarna, Nepahra, and South Covello in being opposed to a removal of the rankings. I'm not really in favor of adjusting the rankings system, personally.

It sounds like the issue is that there is a lack of people wanting to take on hosting the events. How do you make people do something they don't want to do? Perhaps you could give Baptism of Fire hosts a right of first refusal on hosting a World Cup/Cup of Harmony, or give them five votes to start in the vote, in case the general consensus is they made a hash of everything so there's an opportunity to block them. Or make bidding on the Cup of Harmony/Baptism of Fire one single thing, so to host one you are then automatically committed to the other.

[Apox]

I agree with Savojarna, Nepahra, and South Covello in being opposed to a removal of the rankings. I'm not really in favor of adjusting the rankings system, personally.

It sounds like the issue is that there is a lack of people wanting to take on hosting the events. How do you make people do something they don't want to do? Perhaps you could give Baptism of Fire hosts a right of first refusal on hosting a World Cup/Cup of Harmony, or give them five votes to start in the vote, in case the general consensus is they made a hash of everything so there's an opportunity to block them. Or make bidding on the Cup of Harmony/Baptism of Fire one single thing, so to host one you are then automatically committed to the other.

I think forcing people to bid on the CoH/BoF together would only result in even fewer hosts stepping forward.

I have been approached by 2 out of 3 other users I would need to get a "Vilitan plan" 4 person WC bid up and running, so seems like there's interest there. If there's anyone else who might be interested in hosting the BoF, I encourage you to start sorting something out. (FYI I hosted a BoF first out of all the WCC tournaments in only my third cycle on NS. You don't need to have a bucketful of experience just confidence and determination to do a good job and not being afraid to ask for help.)

[Zwangzug]

I don't know how to phrase this pleasantly, but...

If we want people to not be burning out on the host process, people individually and collectively should probably considering dialling back some of the humor/"humor" associated with weird results. "Oh hahaha, XYZ won, so lucky!" "I complain about n00bs ruining everything but then fluke my way to success, teehee, aren't I the ~worst~" really isn't conducive to making anyone want to put in the grudgework to come back. Especially on a large scale, hosting can really take a toll on people's mental health, and having that be dismissed with "wow i am t3h best, oh btw n00bs don't expect success that makes you a terrible person for caring about results!!!!1!!" is very unhealthy in the long term.

This notwithstanding, I may be preparing a BoF bid soon, stand by.

[Zwangzug]

Double post!

[Commonwealth of Baker Park]

I'd be fine with either three or four as well, but I think two is too few. And like Neph said, I'd be against removing rankings. It adds to the fun. And on the rare chance a new user does manage to pull off a bunch of upsets and make the World Cup (Drawkland is the only recent one that comes to mind*) it makes it all the more special. But yeah, make RP count for more.

I want to be insulted that you've forgotten me already but, that's b/c I'm particularly emotionally needy at this time of the year.

In the first week of Jan, I'll have been here for one full year, so I can see my comments about the amount of time between cycles is stupid on its face. I would say at minimum 3 WC cycles per year should be the goal.

I didn't get the impression that Audio was saying to get rid of rankings, just pointing out the other twice per year competitions that didn't have any ranking.

I am perfectly aware that I am the case study in how soaring up the rankings over a short period of time is really not indicative of how the rankings and cycles should work. I'm not bothered if someone makes that point. In RP, it is limiting in the avenues of storylines--I did a review of my players and found I have 130, with only 65-70 slots available across my teams. I can't cycle older players out fast enough.

But enough about poor me. The host situation is an entirely different discussion.

[Farfadillis]

I might be a bit of a radical here, but I'm in the at-least-four-per-year camp. The current state of affairs is just way too stale for my liking. The main problem we'd have to consider if we were to increase the WC frequency is how UICA is currently extremely slow. Having WCs held more frequently than UICA seasons would break a lot of immersion, in my honest opinion.

[The Sherpa Empire]

I might be in the minority on this, but I'm happy with having long gaps between WCs. Having more frequent WCs would make it more difficult to keep the IC chronology of my football RPs in sync with my RPs in other sports.

[Valanora]

I'm of the mind to have 3-5 WCs a year, as it used to be, 2 is simply too glacier a speed to keep engagement in the community.

[Vilita and Turori]

I'm of the mind to have 3-5 WCs a year, as it used to be, 2 is simply too glacier a speed to keep engagement in the community.

I'll argue the last point in the idea that the Community is NS Sports and not strictly the World Cup.

When you have 5+ World Cups a year then the World Cup is the center of everything and requires everyones full attention at all times because its basically going constantly all year round - and that can often be at great detriment to the quality and number of other non World Cup events taking place.

When you have in the 3/year or 8 every 3 years which is about what we've been at here then it permits, in the downtime, folks to participate in other things. Can folks participate in other things even while they are in the World Cup? Of course, but many may not have that bandwidth. I think having fewer World Cups per year permits a stronger, more well balanced NS Sports Community because the Community is then more about all NS Sports and not just "The World Cup plus some random other things that happen"

Now yes fewer World Cups per year makes it a longer, harder road for a new nation in the World Cup to climb that ladder, but as other tournaments in NS get more prominent space on the forum and attract more 'prominent' participation then those nations will have more opportunities to excel in other competitions. Yes the World Cup is the biggest, oldest event on NS but I believe in order to judge engagement and success of the NS Sports community it is no longer the sole litmus test. There are now a large number of recurring events that have very active and skilled contributors that aren't even interested in the World Cup itself. To me, this is a sign of strength in the community that it is not dependent on the World Cup to keep everything tied together.

[Third Asopia]

I can't wait for the World Cup and Bof to start.
Anyways, I wasn't active these past few days because u was fricking sick. And youd most likely rest instead of staring at your computer, right? And the Di Bradini Cup is going so fast! It's like about a week or so and we already reached the quarterfinals.
And the Independents' Cup hasn't started. And I signed up in about very late November.

[The Archregimancy]

Three World Cups a year would suit me. It's a good constant flow without overdoing it.

Balancing work, modding, and the WC has caught up with me over the last year, and I've deliberately (though, I hope, temporarily) scaled back my NS participation over the last couple of months to avoid burn-out, so having two World Cups only this year has suited very specific personal circumstances.

At the same time, the World Cup is what I enjoy most about NS (really), and even under current circumstances I'm getting a little itchy about the current gap. I have several Holy Empire ideas stored up and ready to go. I would have preferred three tournaments in 2018.

Abolishing rankings wouldn't really work; for better or for worse they're an integral part of RL football these days, and provide an easy to grasp point of connection with RL. And success should be rewarded. Also, looking at the Holy Empire's rankings and qualifications since WC 25 or so should demonstrate that a high rank and qualification aren't always assured even for regular - and relatively successful - participants. There is ongoing motion in the ranks; winning a WC doesn't guarantee that you'll always win WCs. My only minor concern here is that in the ongoing eternal discussion about the balance between RP and rank, we might be leaning just slightly too much on the former (which I write as someone who's often done well by the RP bonus; or so I'm told, anyway). But this will always be subjective, and is largely a matter of taste.

[Cassadaigua]

I think having fewer World Cups per year permits a stronger, more well balanced NS Sports Community because the Community is then more about all NS Sports and not just "The World Cup plus some random other things that happen"

Now yes fewer World Cups per year makes it a longer, harder road for a new nation in the World Cup to climb that ladder, but as other tournaments in NS get more prominent space on the forum and attract more 'prominent' participation then those nations will have more opportunities to excel in other competitions. Yes the World Cup is the biggest, oldest event on NS but I believe in order to judge engagement and success of the NS Sports community it is no longer the sole litmus test. There are now a large number of recurring events that have very active and skilled contributors that aren't even interested in the World Cup itself. To me, this is a sign of strength in the community that it is not dependent on the World Cup to keep everything tied together.

Very well put. As some who participates in the quite a few of the different competitions, you will see that there are users who shine in them that are not in the World Cup or are not as active in the World Cup as they are in the other competition. The World Cup is the lead competition in NS Sports, but more is offered for the community in general. In my opinion, three a year is fine. There are many ladders on NS Sports for people to climb and have fun doing so then just the World Cup.

[Drawkland]

And the Independents' Cup hasn't started. And I signed up in about very late November.

That should be rectified soon. With decent numbers and now a willing host we should be able to get it started within the week.

[Ethane]

I'm quite a fan of a World Cup every 3 months (or 4 a year), as I feel like that is quite well balanced and leaves time for other events.

But I have found that in the rather large gaps between World Cups, I do drop away from NS quite a bit. In some ways that is good (though most of that time is now dedicated to computer gaming, so not necessarily the best alternative), but I do find myself drifting and wanting another World Cup to come along quicker.

As to getting the cycles along quicker, I am happy to open myself up as a bidding partner for a bid on either the BoF or the CoH this edition (would happily host a World Cup, but because I've taken a short break from hosting I'd rather host something lighter before moving to the World Cup proper).

[Ko-oren]

I like 3 World Cups per year best... Sure, I'd prefer having 6 but I want other tournaments to have as much of a window as the World Cup. NS Sports isn't just soccer/football, and with the regional cups (and the Independents), the domestic system and the Di Bradini Cup, there's football out there already. I don't think anyone likes RPing two tournaments at a time, but that's what is sometimes turns into with such a cramped schedule, so more than 3 WCs per year is probably not feasible.

[Valanora]

Host Announcement

Due to a power outage in my local area, the Semifinals of the DBC are pushed back 24 hours.

[Kita-Hinode]

I'd be fine with less World Cups per year, if only because I already have enough stuff to do as is. I'm aware I don't do much at the tournament per se, but considering we tend to guide most of our stuff with it, I'd rather we had gaps between the Cups so we could be open to experimentation with other sports/new tournaments.

That and the Regional tournaments have felt rather lacklustre for a while now. I recall being one of the few people even bothering RPing for some of those in the past because of how tired people already were.

[Starblaydia]

I'd be willing to open the signups without any bids being on the table - I'm not suggesting we go back to the oldest days and start signups during the Finals of the ongoing tournament, of course - in between Christmas and the New Year in order to prod people into action.

Hearing no dissent in the thread since...

[Prezhat]

When Olympic Signups close, I'll openWorld Cup 82 Signups, so we can start 2019 with some exciting football-based anticipation and have them run while the Olympics are on.

[PrezHat]

[Apox]

A glorious bid for WC82/CoH74 appears...

[Indusse]

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=457697&p=35162382&sid=3c9e63106ac550e28b36e5bfb84dc538#p35162382

This isn't right place

[Starblaydia]

This isn't right place

You're correct. If you want to link in the WCDT to something like an offsite forum game, as has been done in the past with things like Footstar or Sporcle quizzes, please make them relevant to the World Cup, football or at least NS sports in general.

[Cassadaigua]

Star (or someone else), when do you see the World Cup beginning based on its current rate of bids? March 1? or later?

Asking not too rush the World Cup, but in hoping to schedule another tournament just prior to the start here?

[Starblaydia]

Star (or someone else), when do you see the World Cup beginning based on its current rate of bids? March 1? or later?

Asking not too rush the World Cup, but in hoping to schedule another tournament just prior to the start here?

I'm reliably led to believe that there's another BoF bid in the works, and when that comes out I'll do a final call for interested WC parties and start a vote based on that response.