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WC50: Krytenia/Holy Empire Bid Thread

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Krytenia
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WC50: Krytenia/Holy Empire Bid Thread

Postby Krytenia » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:32 am

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WORLD CUP FIFTY - KRYTENIA & THE HOLY EMPIRE
"Dream The Dream"


(Please note, this opening post blends IC and OOC, and should be taken as such.)

When Ariddia conceived the World Cup, way back in the mists of time, who would have imagined we'd still be here, on the cusp of a new decade, preparing for its fiftieth edition? But, here we are, ready for the end of the first half century of these competitions, and ready to lay the foundations that will, we hope, take us to World Cup 100 and beyond.

So how have we got here? The answer, simply, is you. The players who add the colour, add the roleplay, add the meat to the bones of scorination the hosts supply. You make it fun, dramatic, and occasionally controversial. Every dodgy red card, every beautiful volley, every segue into the ins and outs behind the scenes, off the scenes, or completely ignoring the scenes. And that is why we have decided to reward you.

World Cup 50, if awarded to our bid, will contain a higher skew on RP bonus than before. Teams will be able to earn up to 2.5 KPB points each matchday. This, I am sure, will create a few shocks, and a few rumblings among those at the top, but we hope you'll be able to see past this short-sightedness and into the long game; that World Cup 51 will have more quality RPers than ever before in the top 32. The meat behind this will be NSFS, using the "XL Parameters" file previously used to scorinate World Cup 40.

And if you think this is radical thinking, fear not. Your cup is in safe hands. In The Holy Empire, we have the only remaining nation (to WC49) of those who took part in that ground-breaking inaugural World Cup so long ago; in Krytenia, one of the most experienced hosts out there (check the sig!) and the creators of the longest-running regional football competition, the AOCAF Cup.

The cap on participants will be 152; 150 to qualifying, plus Krytenia and The Holy Empire.

There will be more details to come, but in the meantime, feel free to ask questions in this thread.

ADDENDUM: A NOTE ON FRIENDLIES

1) Formal acknowledgement will be given in the schedule for pre-, mid- and post-qualification friendlies.

2) There will be a higher limit of FIVE friendlies in those spots; however, they will not automatically be scorinated by the hosts. Nations must arrange their own friendly scorination; a designated host will be free to scorinate a friendly if asked (only one host, so as not to split RP count), but may also refuse. Krytenia will also, prior to the World Cup, draw up a list of "preferred hosts"; this objective list will be made up of active nations/players that have scorinated at least one WCC-sanctioned event (less any nations who indicate in the WCDT prior to the Cup that they do not want to be on this list).

3) The maximum number of friendlies that the host will be willing to scorinate per nation will depend on RL availability on that day, but will be announced prior to the World Cup Qualifying Draw. The hosts will make the relevant RP-adjusted ranks available to other scorinating nations for scorinating purposes.

4) The scores thread will make explicit which nation will be scorinating which match(es). There will either be an allowance for scorinating nations to post in the scores thread, or a second thread for friendly scorination.

5) Friendly RPs will count normally towards RP bonuses regardless of who scorinates them.
Last edited by Krytenia on Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:10 pm

How would you handle friendlies?

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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:12 pm

Sarzonia wrote:How would you handle friendlies?


I will get back to you on that. We're still thrashing out the finer points.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Andrewboy
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Postby Andrewboy » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:14 pm

if only i could vote:roll:
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Pokemonman
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Postby Pokemonman » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Do you want to do a friendly with me?
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Jeruselem
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Postby Jeruselem » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:05 pm

Pokemonman wrote:Do you want to do a friendly with me?


This is only a bid, they have not won the bid for the WC50 yet. You ask for friendlies from the confirmed winning hosts of WC50, so it's too early to ask.
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The Babbage Islands
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Postby The Babbage Islands » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:51 am

Krytenia wrote:World Cup 50, if awarded to our bid, will contain a higher skew on RP bonus than before. Teams will be able to earn up to three KPB points each matchday. This, I am sure, will create a few shocks, and a few rumblings among those at the top, but we hope you'll be able to see past this short-sightedness and into the long game; that World Cup 51 will have more quality RPers than ever before in the top 32.


This is a very good reason to support this bid. One Cup on the inside of the numbers has been very instructive, and I wonder if we have lost sight of the balance between rewarding past performance and encouraging the roleplay that develops the richness of NS Sport.

It would be easy to slip too far the other direction, of course. It is not in anyone's best interest for history to become meaningless. But adjusting the current "skew" in favour of more RP is salutary.

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Burchadinger
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Postby Burchadinger » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:00 am

In my opinion, this is an excellent bid, and I hope that it succeeds.
Last edited by Burchadinger on Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Delaclava » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:11 am

I like this bid, mainly because it promises high emphasis on RP. There is the concern that it could go too far the other way, but to be honest many of the top teams are at the top because they RP. This way newer teams could get their nose in the door, but there still isn't a huge amount of shifting at the top.

Perhaps this is a detail that is still being sorted out, but how many friendlies per phase will be allowed?
Back on a limited basis, interested mainly in tennis and lacrosse, possibly a bit of track and field (athletics). Currently hosting the 8th Scott Cup and the 2nd World Team Tennis Championships.

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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:13 pm

Delaclava wrote:I like this bid, mainly because it promises high emphasis on RP. There is the concern that it could go too far the other way, but to be honest many of the top teams are at the top because they RP. This way newer teams could get their nose in the door, but there still isn't a huge amount of shifting at the top.

Perhaps this is a detail that is still being sorted out, but how many friendlies per phase will be allowed?


Still waiting for a reply from AIF. Will be no more than three though.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Postby Daehanjeiguk » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:56 pm

Will the hosts be changing their names somewhere down the road just to confuse the %$#^ out of people much like the SLANI Associations? Again?
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Schiavonia
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Postby Schiavonia » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:51 pm

I know that there is an argument in favour of a large RP bonus, but is a bonus of three points per matchday not a little extreme?

For starters, there are the cases in which someone, for whatever reason, might struggle to produce daily RP. As someone who has only just returned, it feels almost as if you have forgotten that some of us have lives away from this game within a game. (Cues jokes to the contrary). While it might not make a huge difference to a nation like mine with only a few points, if something prevented a high ranked team from putting a piece forward every day, the ranking that they will have worked hard to get over a number of cups will be wiped away within a matter of weeks.

Then there is the matter of consistency. To me, effectively forcing people to RP just in order to compete will considerably affect the quality of what we get. I'd rather someone put forward two or three great pieces across the whole of qualifying than a daily dirge.

There are other problems with the RP bonus you propose, but it's late and my brain hurts trying to remember them.

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Tyrrin
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Postby Tyrrin » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:08 pm

I am exactly the type of person that will be hurt by this type of cup. I have a decent rank, but I don't RP about half the matches. With this system, I would be forced to RP more, something I don't typically have time for.

However, I still support this bid, mainly because I'm hoping AIF and Krytenia can come up with something interesting to RP about (I always love going to the Dreamed Realm), and also because I think its good every once in awhile to give the underdogs a bit of a boost. As long as this system isn't used regularly, but I think WC 50 would be a great time to try it out. And who knows, maybe I'll RP more.

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Postby Newmanistan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:33 pm

I think it is important for WC 50 to have some kind of historical significance with where it is played. There is no better place for that then The Holy Empire and since this is otherwise a very sound bid (and of course I like the RP bit), it'll be tough for another bid to win me over.
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Postby Liventia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:56 am

Schiavonia wrote:For starters, there are the cases in which someone, for whatever reason, might struggle to produce daily RP. As someone who has only just returned, it feels almost as if you have forgotten that some of us have lives away from this game within a game. (Cues jokes to the contrary). While it might not make a huge difference to a nation like mine with only a few points, if something prevented a high ranked team from putting a piece forward every day, the ranking that they will have worked hard to get over a number of cups will be wiped away within a matter of weeks.


Pretty much exactly why I cannot and will not support this bid as much as I'd like to. The proposed RP bonus increase is simply way too big for someone who can't RP daily (like me, considering I've only got Internet access on weekends and public holidays now that I'm in the military). This is simply too much for me.

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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:20 am

Liventia wrote:
Schiavonia wrote:For starters, there are the cases in which someone, for whatever reason, might struggle to produce daily RP. As someone who has only just returned, it feels almost as if you have forgotten that some of us have lives away from this game within a game. (Cues jokes to the contrary). While it might not make a huge difference to a nation like mine with only a few points, if something prevented a high ranked team from putting a piece forward every day, the ranking that they will have worked hard to get over a number of cups will be wiped away within a matter of weeks.


Pretty much exactly why I cannot and will not support this bid as much as I'd like to. The proposed RP bonus increase is simply way too big for someone who can't RP daily (like me, considering I've only got Internet access on weekends and public holidays now that I'm in the military). This is simply too much for me.

Very few people RP every day, and even fewer do so with the regular quality to gain the maximum RP bonus. If we are successful, then my advice to you would be thus: Make it count. Two 3-point RPs, after all, is better than seven 0.8-point ones.

Daehanjeiguk wrote:Will the hosts be changing their names somewhere down the road just to confuse the %$#^ out of people much like the SLANI Associations? Again?

What do you think this is? World Cup 40? :p
Last edited by Krytenia on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Postby Alasdair I Frosticus » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:32 pm

I've been off-line for most of the last week, and have only just replied to a couple of Krytenia TGs that were waiting for me.

My apologies for temporarily delaying the answers to the questions raised so far in this thread due to Christmassy RL issues; we'll be getting back to everyone over the next few days.
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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:11 pm

THE BELOW POST HAS BEEN EDITED FROM ITS ORIGINAL STATE. This is due to valid points raised by several EWCC/WCC members.

Alasdair I Frosticus wrote:I've been off-line for most of the last week, and have only just replied to a couple of Krytenia TGs that were waiting for me.

My apologies for temporarily delaying the answers to the questions raised so far in this thread due to Christmassy RL issues; we'll be getting back to everyone over the next few days.


The reply does mean we have an answer to the "Friendly Question":

1) Formal acknowledgement will be given in the schedule for pre-, mid- and post-qualification friendlies.

2) There will be a higher limit of FIVE friendlies in those spots; however, they will not automatically be scorinated by the hosts. Nations must arrange their own friendly scorination; a designated host will be free to scorinate a friendly if asked (only one host, so as not to split RP count), but may also refuse. Krytenia will also, prior to the World Cup, draw up a list of "preferred hosts"; this objective list will be made up of active nations/players that have scorinated at least one WCC-sanctioned event (less any nations who indicate in the WCDT prior to the Cup that they do not want to be on this list).

3) The maximum number of friendlies that the host will be willing to scorinate per nation will depend on RL availability on that day, but will be announced prior to the World Cup Qualifying Draw. The hosts will make the relevant RP-adjusted ranks available to other scorinating nations for scorinating purposes.

4) The scores thread will make explicit which nation will be scorinating which match(es). There will either be an allowance for scorinating nations to post in the scores thread, or a second thread for friendly scorination.

5) Friendly RPs will count normally towards RP bonuses regardless of who scorinates them.
Last edited by Krytenia on Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Yafor 2
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Postby Yafor 2 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:28 pm

I appreciate the attempt to be radical and draw interest to important issue, but as I pointed out to Kry multiple times on IRC, you're being radical in all the wrong ways (although I don't really care about friendlies). Including having conventional tiebreakers (seriously, I'll vote for a bid without shitty tiebreakers).

But I like the intention. Just hate the execution.

Aren't you glad at how short that was? :p
Last edited by Yafor 2 on Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bostopia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:31 pm

This bid has the support of the Bostopian FA. While we are not overtly keen on 3 KPBs, we are not dead set against the idea of a larger RP bonus. While we expect our comment to be noted, we do not further expect it to be acted on and obviously leave it to the hosts discretion.
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Delaclava
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Postby Delaclava » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:06 pm

This is just my impression, but it seems that 3 KPB's will be awarded to very, VERY good RP's, and there is probably not likely to be many. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Also, let me make sure I have number 2 straight:
- Each nation can have 5 friendlies per phase.
- Each host will scorinate a certain amount of friendlies per nation.
- The hosts will make a list of nations that will scorinate friendlies, and they can scorinate the friendlies that the hosts can't.
Is this right? If not, please clarify.
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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:11 pm

Delaclava wrote:This is just my impression, but it seems that 3 KPB's will be awarded to very, VERY good RP's, and there is probably not likely to be many. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Also, let me make sure I have number 2 straight:
- Each nation can have 5 friendlies per phase.
- Each host will scorinate a certain amount of friendlies per nation.
- The hosts will make a list of nations that will scorinate friendlies, and they can scorinate the friendlies that the hosts can't.
Is this right? If not, please clarify.


Point two is that they may or may not. This will depend on host workload, both on NS and in RL.
Point three is that the choice is of ANY NATION on the list, who all have right of refusal.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

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Postby Alasdair I Frosticus » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:51 pm

Krytenia wrote:
Delaclava wrote:This is just my impression, but it seems that 3 KPB's will be awarded to very, VERY good RP's, and there is probably not likely to be many. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Also, let me make sure I have number 2 straight:
- Each nation can have 5 friendlies per phase.
- Each host will scorinate a certain amount of friendlies per nation.
- The hosts will make a list of nations that will scorinate friendlies, and they can scorinate the friendlies that the hosts can't.
Is this right? If not, please clarify.


Point two is that they may or may not. This will depend on host workload, both on NS and in RL.
Point three is that the choice is of ANY NATION on the list, who all have right of refusal.


Confirmed. Essentially, what we're proposing is to allow nations to have up to five friendlies per friendly round if they can find someone to scorinate them. The hosts will not be obligated to scorinate those friendlies; you can ask us to, and we might well say yes - but we reserve the right to say no depending on NS / RL workloads. Similarly, none of the nations on the 'list' will be obligated to scorinate those friendlies; it's simply a list of experienced nations. You may indeed use nations other than the hosts or those on the 'list', which may well prove to be a useful way of gaining scorination experience.

Some explanation for why we're taking this approach may be useful... I know I've personally expressed some reservations about the growth of friendlies in the past, but this has nothing to do with our approach here - promise. We anticipate that WC50 will be one of the biggest WCs ever, perhaps the biggest ever, and we anticipate a lot of interest in holding friendlies or subsidiary tournaments (like the Mike Sarzo Trophy) around this special landmark Cup. Given the potential scale of the sign-ups, and the accompanying potential interest in friendlies, we're simply trying to find a balance between allowing as many friendlies as possible for a very special Cup while allowing us to maintain some sort of control on our scorination workload.


Note that we've also taken on board some of the concerns about the proposed scale of the RP bonus, and may potentially revisit this issue once we've recovered from our New Year hangovers. Stay tuned.
Last edited by Alasdair I Frosticus on Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Krytenia
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Postby Krytenia » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:00 pm

Alasdair I Frosticus wrote:
Krytenia wrote:
Delaclava wrote:This is just my impression, but it seems that 3 KPB's will be awarded to very, VERY good RP's, and there is probably not likely to be many. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Also, let me make sure I have number 2 straight:
- Each nation can have 5 friendlies per phase.
- Each host will scorinate a certain amount of friendlies per nation.
- The hosts will make a list of nations that will scorinate friendlies, and they can scorinate the friendlies that the hosts can't.
Is this right? If not, please clarify.


Point two is that they may or may not. This will depend on host workload, both on NS and in RL.
Point three is that the choice is of ANY NATION on the list, who all have right of refusal.


Confirmed. Essentially, what we're proposing is to allow nations to have up to five friendlies per friendly round if they can find someone to scorinate them. The hosts will not be obligated to scorinate those friendlies; you can ask us to, and we might well say yes - but we reserve the right to say no depending on NS / RL workloads. Similarly, none of the nations on the 'list' will be obligated to scorinate those friendlies; it's simply a list of experienced nations. You may indeed use nations other than the hosts or those on the 'list', which may well prove to be a useful way of gaining scorination experience.

Some explanation for why we're taking this approach may be useful... I know I've personally expressed some reservations about the growth of friendlies in the past, but this has nothing to do with our approach here - promise. We anticipate that WC50 will be one of the biggest WCs ever, perhaps the biggest ever, and we anticipate a lot of interest in holding friendlies or subsidiary tournaments (like the Mike Sarzo Trophy) around this special landmark Cup. Given the potential scale of the sign-ups, and the accompanying potential interest in friendlies, we're simply trying to find a balance between allowing as many friendlies as possible for a very special Cup while allowing us to maintain some sort of control on our scorination workload.


Note that we've also taken on board some of the concerns about the proposed scale of the RP bonus, and may potentially revisit this issue once we've recovered from our New Year hangovers. Stay tuned.


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KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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Krytenia
Senator
 
Posts: 3600
Founded: Apr 22, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Krytenia » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:08 am

PLEASE NOTE

Following discussion with THE, we have decided to lower the RP bonus...slightly. It now stands at 2.5KPB/matchday.

The OP has been edited accordingly.
KRYTENIA: Losing in semi-finals since 2004.

Hosts:
Cup of Harmony VII, AOCAF I, Cup of Harmony XV, World Cup XXIV, AOCAF XIII, World Cup XXIX, AOCAF XVII, AOCAF XXIII, World Cup XL, Cup of Harmony XXXII, Baptism of Fire XXXII, AOCAF XXVII, Baptism of Fire XXXVI, World Cup L, Baptism of Fire XL, Cup of Harmony LXIV, AOCAF XLVIII, World Cup LXXV
Champions: AOCAF LII
Runner-Up: AOCAF VII, World Cup LVIII

Creator, AOCAF & Cygnus Cup - Host, VI Winter Olympics (Ashton) & VII Summer Olympics (Emberton)

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