International Domestic Soccer Discussion

[Nephara]

I feel like formulas are too limiting, and also I'm terrible at maths, so wouldn't be able to make them anyway. Also, what happens when you have a team that buys a ton of new players and tries to rise up the ranks, or loses its best talent and can't replace it? But that approach does work for a lot of people, so I'm not about to knock it.

For mine, I basically have an array between 100-40 or so, usually spaced out a bit more between 100-85 for the title contenders and then basically evenly-spread from there on down. Especially terrible teams that are going to get annihilated might rate like a 30. At least on NSFS, that at least gives a good mixture of realism, reliability and flexibility.

[Commonwealth of Baker Park]

I started my teams far too conservatively in skill mods. I've tried to adjust sort of on a table based increase/decrease--the top 4-5 clubs in the top division, the middle 5-6 and the promoted/relegated sides get 10-20% change depending if they improved, regressed, etc. I'm thinking I need to go back to square one and make the range a lot wider.

[Osarius]

This question is partially regarding transfers, partially regarding domestic league scorination year-to-year.

I'm trying to figure out how to adjust team skill modifiers year to year, accounting for player development/decline and roster changes, and I'm a little uncertain of how to proceed. I don't want to rely purely on league standings from the prior season, because then the good teams will only get better and the bad teams will only get worse. I'm also trying to figure out how to appropriately weight team skill between leagues re: relegated and promoted teams. Can other players share tips on how they handle this aspect of running a league?

I use a coefficient formula based on the last three seasons, then make manual modifications to style and skill based on transfer activity/manager changes etc. I tried to automate this adjustment at one point -- based on player ratings -- but it's too complicated, and way more work... so I just wing it.

For example, when Shanak sold Aaliyah Johnson, I tanked their skill ranking because she was by far and away their best player and main source of goals. Similarly, when Hastmead Diamante signed Bethany Martin from TBI (then a relatively highly ranked nation) I boosted their ranking and they became a top five team for a while. Sometimes I change ranks midseason if it looks like a team that was supposed to be a title contender is too far off the pace. Then I RP it as a key player returning from injury, or a manager change, or something like that. I dunno, I feel like domestic leagues are best when you have a narrative. And nobody really cares if you fudge the numbers to fit that narrative. It's your league after all.

[Savojarna]

I feel like formulas are too limiting, and also I'm terrible at maths, so wouldn't be able to make them anyway. Also, what happens when you have a team that buys a ton of new players and tries to rise up the ranks, or loses its best talent and can't replace it? But that approach does work for a lot of people, so I'm not about to knock it.

The system of the Savojar league makes that very unlikely, as there are the teams backed by state institutions that mainly dominate the league and the others that don't really have a way of competing, with a few notable exceptions (where I usually RP it as a new talent being better than expected or smth like that). Secondly, I also do a more RP-follows-results league than the other way around, so I don't really mind a change in that. Finally, if a team really should be roleplayed as getting much better/worse, it's my league and I can always decide to knock a few points off their total/add some.

[Banija]

There are so many ways to do it. When I make a bid for a player, I have an excel sheet that shows how much that player should improve(or unimprove) the team that they are going to, in comparison to the player they are replacing. It's spitballing, of course, to determine that number, but it helps make sure i can keep track of all my transfers and ensure that they are all reflected when I set the coefficients for the upcoming season.

[Apox]

I use the following formulae:

Most recent season: (Points / Games Played) * 10
Previous season: (Points / Games Played) * 8
Three seasons ago: (Points / Games Played) * 6
Four seasons ago: (Points / Games Played) * 4
Five seasons ago: (Points / Games Played) * 2

Additionally, I apply a modifier to these depending on the division:

ANL modifier: *1
ANL2 modifier: *0.65
ANL3 modifier: *0.4
Regional leagues modifier: *0.3

This usually results in the best teams in the ANL having a rank of about 60, going down to about 30.
ANL2 tends to be between 35-20, ANL3 27-15, Regionals 20-0.

And then I will adjust up to +/- 5 for up to 5 teams per division each season depending on whether I want them to be improving/getting worse/are Egloskerry (who despite being modified -5 for about four seasons in a row, still cannot get relegated.

[Commonwealth of Baker Park]

And then I will adjust up to +/- 5 for up to 5 teams per division each season depending on whether I want them to be improving/getting worse/are Egloskerry (who despite being modified -5 for about four seasons in a row, still cannot get relegated.

The unflushables. LOL

[Semarland]

Just a quick note regarding this window - the entire Semarland NT will be open to bids. I'm not going to put them all on the sheet at once however, a select few will just go up for now, but please do not let that discourage you from bidding. TG box is always open to discuss players (or if I can make it onto the Discord haha!).

[Blaneu]

How do bids get accepted or put down? Is it in the transfer list sheet somewhere because I can't seem to find the right column?

[Eastfield Lodge]

How do bids get accepted or put down? Is it in the transfer list sheet somewhere because I can't seem to find the right column?

Bids aren't open yet because the UICA cutoff hasn't been announced.

[Ariwana]

I'm new at here. Can I know how to scorinate domestic football competition? Because I look several words of "Scorinate" on sport forum thread.

[Blaneu]

How do bids get accepted or put down? Is it in the transfer list sheet somewhere because I can't seem to find the right column?

Bids aren't open yet because the UICA cutoff hasn't been announced.

Ah fair enough, does that go for free agents as well?

Guess I can just read Nephara's post to find that out, sorry!

[Barunia]

I'm new at here. Can I know how to scorinate domestic football competition? Because I look several words of "Scorinate" on sport forum thread.

Welcome to NS Sports! It's always good to see a new face interested in starting with a domestic league.

Good to see you tried searching. It seems you did't find the thread you were looking for though: that would be the scorinator discussion thread. Feel free to ask your question there, although there should be a guide to running a league somewhere on there already. Elsewhere on the forum there is an unofficial guide to the main scorination programme we use (called "xkoronate"), but I can't seem to find the link.

[Ariwana]

I'm new at here. Can I know how to scorinate domestic football competition? Because I look several words of "Scorinate" on sport forum thread.

Welcome to NS Sports! It's always good to see a new face interested in starting with a domestic league.

Good to see you tried searching. It seems you didn't find the thread you were looking for though: that would be the scorinator discussion thread. Feel free to ask your question there, although there should be a guide to running a league somewhere on there already. Elsewhere on the forum there is an unofficial guide to the main scorination programme we use (called "xkoronate"), but I can't seem to find the link.

I will check the discussion thread. Really I don't know why I'm interested with Nationstates Sports Forum. But roleplay could realise the idea in my mind. Thank you Barunia!

[Squornshelan Remnant States]

Now that my tournaments are over for this cycle, I went ahead and added a dozen or so players to the spreadsheet. People can certainly make bids on other players on the national team or those that I've mentioned in my CoH RP posts by TG, but those players aren't actively being shopped, and teams may not be interested in selling.

[Nephara]

With the cutoff officially posted, reminder to get your players up on the preliminary Transfer Window! It will stop being the preliminary Transfer Window and start being the actual Transfer Window once the first UICA post is posted.

On a sidenote, if there's no objections, I will be ensuring the continuation of the Boldsport Galacticos, a list of the multiverse's greatest players. It will probably not be in the same level of detail as previous editions have been, but we'll see - I'll look to set up a foundation and build on it cycle-by-cycle.

[Nephara]

... And with the UICA cutoff posted, the 23rd Transfer Window is officially open!

For convenience's sake, the FAQ is below;

TRANSFER WINDOW FAQ
So, what is the transfer window? The transfer system is how players move from one club to another, and this transfer spreadsheet is how transfers across the multiverse are conducted. North Americans might be more familiar with the term 'trades'. In football, player-for-player exchanges are rare (though not unknown) and players are generally bought for money.

Where to start? Put players you would like to see sold in the Transfer List tab. Put players who are going to be released by their clubs in the Free Transfers tab. You will have to manually approve transfers for people in the Transfer List - Free Transfers are just bought on a first-come, first-served basis.

So someone bid on my player. What now? Look at the bid in the Bids tab. You'll notice there's two different columns - Club and Player accepting the bid. Generally speaking, the Club only cares about the transfer fee and if it meets its valuation. It doesn't matter how good the buying club is - the money's the same to the selling club. The player doesn't care about the money that the selling club gets, they only care about if the selling club is good, and if they meet their expectations. Selling clubs want more money, sold players are looking for clubs with more prestige.

How do I determine what leagues are good? The UICA league rankings determine objective measures of strength. You will also want to consider the strength of the club in its given league - the Nepharim Premiership is a stronger league than the Brenecian A-League, but your player may well prefer to go to regular A-League winners Kingsgrove than Premiership strugglers Morningstar. Most players also weigh RP quality of a given league into consideration, though only well-RPed leagues will get to the high ranks anyway.

Can I put just anyone up? A good rule of thumb is to write a description for every player in the far right of the spreadsheet. If the player isn't relevant enough for you to want to write a description for them, they aren't worth putting on the sheet. A placeholder description will do for now, but definitely have a real description up by the time the window actually starts - when the UICA cutoff occurs and Commerce Heights starts to score the international tournaments.

How can I buy players? It's the same in reverse. What players do you want to see in your leagues? If they're on the Transfer List, put a Bid for them in the Bids tab. At minimum, this will probably be their cited Valuation. If the club and the player both agree by putting a Y in the relevant tab, then it's a done deal! The player is yours.

What about players who aren't on the Transfer List? You can bid for them, too! The worst that can happen is that the other person says no.

What about Free Transfers? Just put your club and trigramme in the red New Club columns. It's automatically a done deal.

How should I value my players? And how much can I reasonably bid? Fortunately, the NSS economy is far less stratified than the real-world football economy. Instead of big players changing hands for hundreds of millions of Euro, while most leagues outside Europe will never see a transfer of even one million, there's more parity across UICA and this is reflected in more even results. If it's your first season, your top-half teams might have a full million to spend on a transfer fee, with most of the purchased foreigners being free transfers. Your best player, if they're in the prime of their career (roughly 25-29, but youth adds value, so 24-25 is probably peak value for a player), might fetch one or two million. Other starters on your national team might go for about a million, and ambitious guys in your league hoping to break into your national team will probably fetch like half a million.

Is that a hard and fast rule? No, and there are exceptions. Maybe your league is like the real-life Chinese Super League, a low-prestige league with a lot of money. It's entirely fair to throw a lot of cash around without much prestige, just as long as you're aware of that status. More generally, nobody is going to police you for Doing Things Wrong.

What should my expectations be like for my first season? Modest. Out of a few bids for less prominent players, often in their early- to mid-30s, a few will probably be accepted - and, of course, look through Free Transfers for players who appeal to you. Be realistic, of course - a guy who is like 31 and is still an active international for a strong team is probably not going to join your lower leagues just because he's in the Free Transfers tab - but beyond those obvious cases, you don't need to second-guess yourself.

If I have a free agent player, but I care about their destination, can I put them on the Transfer List anyway? Yes. Any bid for them will be for 0 - there's no club with their contract to take the money - and you are free to accept whatever destination you'd like.

Can I start yet? Yes! The window is now open. It will close again when the Champions' Cup final is posted in roughly a fortnight - free agents will remain open forever, so if you wind up signing some back on in your own leagues when the window shuts, note it down on the sheet so they don't wind up being double-booked.

Have other questions, or just want to hang out and chat? Then feel free to join the NS Sport Discord channel!

[The Authoritarian Republic of Lochario]

How do I join the UICA?

[Tinhampton]

How do I join the UICA?

Yes, you see this ten-pointed star carved into my back? That's how I got entrance. Only the best and brightest amongst us get to join the United International Conspiracy in Athletics

In all seriousness, you can take part in UICA competitions by posting your league table onto the International Domestic Soccer NewsWires/IDSNW thread (I would recommend adding results in as well), and then announcing your qualifiers with your trigramme included - this is an excellent official guide by Commerce Heights, UICA head honcho, which explains how to do this better than I ever could. CH, as we like to call him/her for short, has also developed xkoranate, which is highly recommended if you wish to organise a league.

Signups for the 72nd UICA cycle have just closed, which means that your next opportunity to enter is for CC73/GC70/SBCC70/YC25. However, if you start trotting out good-quality roleplay relating to your league, which is highly recommended (generally in the order Preview -> Round-by-Round Reports -> Season Review & Results or thereabouts, put in a separate newswire and which are then linked from the IDSNW thread, for those of us that do RP), and do so consistently for a number of seasons, you could well find the Locharian league to be rubbing shoulders with the world's finest - you never know... (if you have any serious real-life situations, those should always take priority over NS activity, that being said)

In addition, there also exists several tournaments organised independently of the UICA, such as the Cygnus Cup, a Cup Winners' Cup of sorts (the next iteration will be the 48th; remember to submit at least results from the quarterfinals onwards, although you can do more if you want to), in addition to the Vilita Cove Invitational and other tournaments - although you will have to try your luck and hope that your application leads to an invite. Anyway, I wish you all the best with your future footballing adventures. How about you use your knives to sacrifice rubber chickens to Margaret instead of mutilating me further, OK?

[Qusmo]

Yes, you see this ten-pointed star carved into my back? That's how I got entrance. Only the best and brightest amongst us get to join the United International Conspiracy in Athletics

This breaking news first reported by the investigative journalism staff at A Blog.

[Third Asopia]

Because I'm NEW, I'm not familiar with anything. What is the normal number of teams the top flight of a league system will have here? And even if I’m not in UICA, can I add my player to the transfer window?

Taking inspiration from Equestrian States, I want to add non-human mammal players to my National FT. TG to give me your suggestions.

[Cosumar]

Because I'm NEW, I'm not familiar with anything. What is the normal number of teams the top flight of a league system will have here? And even if I’m not in UICA, can I add my player to the transfer window?

Taking inspiration from Equestrian States, I want to add non-human mammal players to my National FT. TG to give me your suggestions.

Welcome! With the transfer window, you’re jumping in at a great time. You’re welcome to participate! Just be sure to check the helpful Q&A that Nephara posted.

As for your league, it varies just like real life. A small country could have a league of like, 7 or 8 teams, or a large one could have a sprawling set-up with dozens of teams and/or multiple conferences. That said, a majority of our top-flights sit in a realistic happy medium between 12 and 30. Mine has 18. Neph’s has 24. Etc.

Also, I have a certain fondness for rhinos...

[Third Asopia]

Because I'm NEW, I'm not familiar with anything. What is the normal number of teams the top flight of a league system will have here? And even if I’m not in UICA, can I add my player to the transfer window?

Taking inspiration from Equestrian States, I want to add non-human mammal players to my National FT. TG to give me your suggestions.

Welcome! With the transfer window, you’re jumping in at a great time. You’re welcome to participate! Just be sure to check the helpful Q&A that Nephara posted.

As for your league, it varies just like real life. A small country could have a league of like, 7 or 8 teams, or a large one could have a sprawling set-up with dozens of teams and/or multiple conferences. That said, a majority of our top-flights sit in a realistic happy medium between 12 and 30. Mine has 18. Neph’s has 24. Etc.

Also, I have a certain fondness for rhinos...

Ye boi!

[Savojarna]

To elaborate a little bit on Cosumar's reply: While certainly everything goes, realistic RL leagues tend to aim for between 36 and 44 games per team, corresponding to either 10 or 12 teams and four complete rounds, or 18 or 20 teams with two complete rounds. These are the most common versions in RL, and they are recommendable because 1) the amount of games is unlikely to tire out players too much, and 2) it is relatively likely that most teams will be somewhat competitive. Second/third flights in RL tend to have either the same amount of teams or sometimes are slightly bigger, but I personally don't know of one with smaller lower tiers. However, in NS that seems to be somewhat common (including my own league), in my case mainly because thinking of new team names and identities got rather tiring at some point.

One thing to keep in mind is that typical football leagues don't have playoff systems, so unless you want to establish one (which is not forbidden in any way, as far as I know), you should make sure teams have equal amounts of home and away games against all other teams at the end of the season, i.e. you should employ an even number of full round-robin rounds. If you have too big a league, this means you will have a large amount of games, which is not a problem per se but may lead to a lot of work in terms of roleplaying and scorinating. Additionally, for some people - like me - it may be a problem that this breaks with RL, but I don't know how much that concerns you.

[Audioslavia]

Because I'm NEW, I'm not familiar with anything. What is the normal number of teams the top flight of a league system will have here? And even if I’m not in UICA, can I add my player to the transfer window?

Taking inspiration from Equestrian States, I want to add non-human mammal players to my National FT. TG to give me your suggestions.

I might be too late here, but my advice would be to start small. Very small.

An eight team league is easy to scorinate and you quickly begin to form a bond to those eight teams. It's easy to give personalities and traits to only eight football clubs. It's much harder to do when you start with around 24.

If you start with just eight, you can grow the league a little every season and not end up with 60 or so teams that you don't care about.

Audioslavia had a ten-team top flight for a long time. I've only just gone up to fifteen.