Apox/Licentiapacisterra: 56th Cup of Harmony Host Bid

[Apox]

Thanks and credit goes to Paradystopia on the fantastic logo

The nations of Licentiapacisterra and Apox are proud to present a bid for

the 56th Cup of Harmony

National Information!

Licentiapacisterra
We are an island nation in the region of Esportiva. Though we have only recently emerged onto the sporting scene, we have already established ourselves as one of the up-and-comers in NS football, qualifying for both World Cup 61 and 62.

If you have the pleasure of visiting the Islands during your first competition, you certainly won’t be short of things to do when you aren’t in the stadiums. Whether it be walking the streets of our beautiful cosmopolitan capital Montfort, relaxing on the beaches of Garton Bay, or hiking through the forests and mountains of Hessington Island, you will have the chance to spend time in one of the most beautiful and friendly nations in Esportiva.

Apox
Apox is a nation in the south of Esportiva, with a large amount of coastline and a proud history. Your average Apoxian citizen, is caring and good-natured, the sort of person you'd love to share a drink with in the pub on a Saturday night. Our government, is what you would call semi-democratic in that it is democratically elected, but it passes relatively few laws. The current leader is Jemima Cafrew, of the Free Party who recently replaced the John Asheburton in elections held in 570 A.T.

Being not a fully democratic country, most people are free to do what they want, providing it is not causing harm to others or their property. People of most cultures and social backgrounds and even species are welcomed in Apox. The police force is friendly but strict, especially to law-breakers and we have a very efficient law system.

Apox has a total population of 26,271,382 as of the 564 census. The capital is Dwile, in the centre of the country, which has a population of 2,832,000. Other major cities are Gwinevra, Urbanista, Barbury and Exton. There are regular flights from all over the region to the four main airports, those being: Dwile Capital Airport, Mandon District Airport (just outside Dwile), Gwinevra Airport and Urbanista Regional Airport. These airports all have direct road and rail links to the cities and their stadiums.

Whilst still quite new to the international sporting scene, Apox has been becoming increasing better, now being ranked 42nd, and chasing our first qualification for the World Cup, having been ranked inside the top 50 since the start of the 63rd World Cup.

Hosting Experience!

Licentiapacisterra
Baptism of Fire 49
Campionato Esportiva 2
Campionato di Atletica Esportiva
4th Quidditch World Cup

Apox
Baptism of Fire 50
Campionato Esportiva IV
World Twenty20 Championships II
Friendly Cups 2 & 6

In addition to this, we both scorinate domestic leagues in more sports than just football.

Scorination

We have decided to use xkorinate with the SQIS formula. Style modifiers will be used with the xkorinate-additive style modifiers, with styles ranging from -5 to +5.

Licentiapacisterra's cut off time would be around 1600 BST (1500 UTC)
Apox's cut off time would would be around 1800 BST (1700 UTC)
Cut-off times not fully decided yet, will be decided fully when Licen returned from America and has stable internet at the end of this week.

Tournament Format

It's a little early to confirm suitable numbers of RPers, but looking at the levels of RPing over the first 4 matchdays, we would expect the tournament size to be either 32 or 40 participating nations, with a standard 8 group stage, and then knock-outs are you would expect.

Tiebreakers

Points
Goal differential
Head to head matches
Goals scored
Head to head goal differential


Roleplaying Bonuses

Roleplays will be ranked between 0-3 per roleplay, judges on creativity and quality. No degradation will occur throughout the tournament. Posting more than one per matchday will not guarantee a higher roleplay bonus.

We will have some RPing extras included, with the hosts providing RP ideas which the participants can choose to RP or not, with no penalty occuring for those who do not use them.

Questions?

Thank you for taking the time to read this bid, if you have any questions regarding it's content, please ask them in the thread below.

[Legalese]

Haha, nice April Fools Joke, guys

Legitimate question: will the score be applied directly to the pre-rank, or will some other method (which I presume you'll describe) be used?

At any rate, why will this bonus level and scale be the sensible amount for a Cup of Harmony? Feel free to show your work

[Equestrian States]

Quick question: Why did you guys set the tiebreakers the way you did? I'm particularly concerned by the use of GD and more significantly by GF before H2H Result as it will give high-style mod teams a considerable advantage and might allow them to advance despite losing to the team they are tied with.

[Apox]

Thanks for the questions:

Legal - By pre-rank do you mean the ranks created at the start of qualifiers? I thought new ranks were going to be made as of the end of qualifiers, even with the cumulative WC?

ES - I hadn't considered that particular point, I'll discuss it with Licen, it will probably be changed so that goals scored is below head-to-head points.

[Farfadillis]

Will Wight and NMS' RP carry-overs affect the CoH?

[Saintland]

Would my usual RP format (example) count as one RP or multiple RPs?

I don't think I'm eligible to vote, as I don't think I'm a member of the WCC yet, but I think this would affect me, since I'm almost certainly not going to qualify for the World Cup and I will continue to RP every day of qualification.

[Legalese]

Thanks for the questions:

Legal - By pre-rank do you mean the ranks created at the start of qualifiers? I thought new ranks were going to be made as of the end of qualifiers, even with the cumulative WC?

Yes, by pre-rank I did mean the KPB ranking used at the start of the CoH - generally the post-qual KPB. For purposes of my question, I have no opinion on what version of the KPB ranks you use - or on the spots, for that matter.

Also, additional question, prompted in part by the post above and a re-reading of how you'll deal with multiple posts in a single MD: why did you choose to go with the best of the day's posts, as opposed to some other form, like taking them all as if they were one RP, and/or going with the worst of the posts?

[Apox]

Will Wight and NMS' RP carry-overs affect the CoH?

I must admit I thought new rankings would be generated once qualifiers finished (something I'm going to find out now). If new ranking are created then I'll use them. If new ones aren't created, then I'll have a discussion with Licen and we'll see where we go from there.

Would my usual RP format (example) count as one RP or multiple RPs?

I don't think I'm eligible to vote, as I don't think I'm a member of the WCC yet, but I think this would affect me, since I'm almost certainly not going to qualify for the World Cup and I will continue to RP every day of qualification.

That would count as one RP, RP's will be judged by post as opposed to separate RP lines within each post. It's only when you post more than once per day where things change.

Yes, by pre-rank I did mean the KPB ranking used at the start of the CoH - generally the post-qual KPB. For purposes of my question, I have no opinion on what version of the KPB ranks you use - or on the spots, for that matter.

Also, additional question, prompted in part by the post above and a re-reading of how you'll deal with multiple posts in a single MD: why did you choose to go with the best of the day's posts, as opposed to some other form, like taking them all as if they were one RP, and/or going with the worst of the posts?

In reply to your first question the bonuses would be added straight to the KPB rankings, and in terms of why it would be ranked 0-3, I think that's a fair number as to gain anything above 2.5 as a bonus it would have to be one of the best RP's I've ever seen. It really goes up to 3 more as a bonus to those who really excel in their RPing, and therefore deserve a good bonus. The majority of RP's would be graded somewhere between 0.5-2.3ish

With regards to your second question, the best RP would be the bonus deserving RP, as the best RP would surely gain any RP points. If someone did a good RP worth say 2 and then a slightly worse RP worth say 1.4, then that nation would be awarded 2 bonus points that day as that is the standard to which they have RPed to. I hoped that makes sense despite the wordy/complicated answer.

[Cassadaigua]

Roleplaying Bonuses

Roleplays will be ranked between 0-3 per roleplay, judges on creativity, quality and length. No degradation will occur throughout the tournament. Roleplaying more than once per day will not mean your bonus increases for that day, in that case, the best roleplay out of the two or more would have bonus awarded.

I don't really care for such an emphasis on length. I've read a whole bunch of roleplays where it seems like 3000 words were typed and you wonder what you even just read; while I've also read 300 word roleplays that do a wonderful job of encompassing a lot of information in them or was just a flat-out good read. While you can say this is where "quality" comes in, I still think the inclusion of the word length here as your 3rd priority will lead to RP's with a bunch of fluff, or 5 giant-size pictures within it, to say "this is long now!" I would rather see you mentioning here things like "usage of information" (other teams roster, their RP's, other RP's throughout the competition). Again, you could consider that under the "quality" umbrella, but in RP's I have read, I don't think a lot of people get that, and instead think its better to double space every sentence so it looks longer while throwing in a giant-sized logo of their national soccer association. You might mean to do what I just said, I would just like to see it better spelled out to make me more confident that you will.

As for the tiebreakers, if there's a single round-robin, and GF is above H2H, you won't get my vote.

[New West Guiana]

Tiebreakers
Points
Goal differential
Goals scored
Head to head matches
Head to head goal differential
Amount of wins

For the tie breaker I don't understand why you have how many wins one team has, standings normally do go with the ones who have won more are normally on top. Agreeing with cass why have GF over H2H?

Also knowing that in soccer at lest (and baseball) the use of the SQIS formula has been well known to be very random, so why the use of that?

[Apox]

After discussion with Licen, the tiebreakers have been updated so Head-to-head is above goals for. Amount of wins has been removed.

With regards to New West Guiana's question on why SQIS was selected, I've scorinated competitions using both SQIS and NSFS, and I haven't seen much difference in terms of how random each tournament is. I use SQIS more often and know it better, so it seemed logical to use it in this bid.

[Polar Islandstates]

Roleplaying Bonuses

Roleplays will be ranked between 0-3 per roleplay, judges on creativity, quality and length. No degradation will occur throughout the tournament. Roleplaying more than once per day will not mean your bonus increases for that day, in that case, the best roleplay out of the two or more would have bonus awarded.

I don't really care for such an emphasis on length. I've read a whole bunch of roleplays where it seems like 3000 words were typed and you wonder what you even just read; while I've also read 300 word roleplays that do a wonderful job of encompassing a lot of information in them or was just a flat-out good read. While you can say this is where "quality" comes in, I still think the inclusion of the word length here as your 3rd priority will lead to RP's with a bunch of fluff, or 5 giant-size pictures within it, to say "this is long now!" I would rather see you mentioning here things like "usage of information" (other teams roster, their RP's, other RP's throughout the competition). Again, you could consider that under the "quality" umbrella, but in RP's I have read, I don't think a lot of people get that, and instead think its better to double space every sentence so it looks longer while throwing in a giant-sized logo of their national soccer association. You might mean to do what I just said, I would just like to see it better spelled out to make me more confident that you will.

Whilst I do agree with Cass, in my experience it is usually up to the hosts to weed out "fluff", as attempts to lengthen an RP or make it look longer than it actually is tend to be pretty transparent, and I would always err on the side of giving potential hosts the benefit of the doubt when it comes to mentioning length as an RP judging criteria, particularly if it is the last one.

However...

Roleplaying more than once per day will not mean your bonus increases for that day, in that case, the best roleplay out of the two or more would have bonus awarded.

...this alarms me.

I know you've explained how it would work once already but I'd like to know how you justify this? Picture the scene where somebody RPs promptly after scores are posted, and then their next opponent RPs well in response to that. The first user may wish to RP a response or reaction to that RP, but now would not be able to without being effectively penalised. Alternatively, someone may wish to save an RP as a draft and add to it later in order to avoid having to effectively 'choose' only one RP of theirs to get scored. If they're saving a draft and adding to it later you might find a) a rush of last minute RPs as people decide they don't have any more to add, and b) that there is little 'original' RP for others to react to. I fear this would kill off co-operative and creative RPing between different users for fear of 'losing' their first RP.

I agree that Average RP + Average RP does NOT equal Max Bonus, but, IMO there are definitely better ways of dealing with multiple RPs on one MD than only scoring the 'best' one.

[Apox]

I believe what I written was different to what I was thinking and has definitely been interpreted different to how I imagined by PIS.

What I mean by each roleplay, is each post which can contain more than one roleplay. For the purposes of scoring roleplays, each post will count as one RP, even if there are more than one RP line contained within it. For example, Nation X may wish to RP a match report and then later on in the post RP a continuing scoreline or a collaborative RP or something along those lines. To be clear, this is fine. It is only once someone posts another separate post that any RP's contained within the second post count as a second RP and therefore the best post rules apply.

To be honest, I only put that bit in there as some nations such have been posting two posts per matchday so far in the World Cup and I wanted to make it clear that those who posted more than once wouldn't receive extra credit for doing so. Otherwise you could post 16 posts per matchday and gain full RP bonus even if the RP's within each post were quite poor. Most people only post one post per matchday, normally containing 1-3 RP ideas, and that is fine, the bonus will be taken considering all RP's in that post, not only the best one! I hope that clear's it up, but just to make sure:

For those who can't be bothered to read my long blatherings/explanation, here is a summary:
1: Posting more than one RP idea per matchday is fine as long as it is contained within a single post.
2: All RP's within one post will be considered not just the best one.
3: When two or more posts occur between matchday's the best one will be judged upon.
4: I need to think how I word that bit, I'll go and edit it out.

Hope that clears any problems up.

[Free South Califas]

3: When two or more posts occur between matchday's the best one will be judged upon.

My understanding is that to PIS, this is the essence of the problem. I know you draw a sharp distinction between posts and RPs, but knowing precisely how, when and why to edit one's posts vs adding a new forum post is kind of arcane forum stuff. That you propose to reward and penalize people for it is troubling. While I appreciate your clarification, it doesn't change anything for me; in fact, it was exactly in line with how I read PIS's remarks.

PIS used an example of an interplay of RPs between two teams about to face each other. If they are forced to go back and edit new RPs into their previous posts, it's somewhat inane to expect them to find their opponent's one post and keep it in a separate tab refreshing it every so often TBH (as well as bringing browsing habits and promptness of computer hardware updates into the question), and reaching a consistent audience of over 2 seems out of the question.

I just think this grading-the-best-post idea is a bit rigid and IMHO lacks sufficient rationale to justify its potentially detrimental effects. I'm not sure if I'd want to delay the BoF over it or anything, but it makes me uncomfortable. Everyone who read and understands the bid knows they will be effectively penalized for submitting a second post between MDs, so we can assume they will mostly do the most rational thing, edit their previous post; those who don't understand this peculiarity of the bid would add their thoughts a second time and take the penalty. It doesn't really add up for me.

This is not something that would prevent me from voting for the bid, but I also echo Cass's concerns about length being valued instead of, say, integration of other RPer's details. Her suggestion resonates with me because it is frustrating to spend a lot of time on your roster and then see your players referred to as "the forward" and "the goalie". This is not a significant problem with the bid for me, though, personally.

[Apox]

Problems solved ladies and gents, the RP bonus section of the bid has now been edited to avoid confusion.

An interesting study on how many double posts per matchday: CoH 55

[Cassadaigua]

Problems solved ladies and gents, the RP bonus section of the bid has now been edited to avoid confusion.

Looks a lot better now. Good luck!

[Liventia]

A question for both of you to answer individually: why have you chosen to bid with your current partner, rather than maybe someone who has more WCC hosting experience that would be more commonly found in CoH bids?

[Apox]

Liventia: When deciding who to approach to make a potential bid with for the CoH, I first of looked for people who I knew well, and I'd known Licen from early on in my time here and him being the only other WCC host in the region, meaning we could link up and attempt to host the first all-Esportiva WCC event, which is definitely good for the region and all the promising new RPers coming through. I did approach someone else more experienced, but they didn't have the time to do it and by that point Licen had accepted. Basically I chose him because I felt I knew him and his hosting style well, and he was also quite experienced, it was quite a good balance. Good to bear in mind that between us we have more WCC experience than the last CoH as well!

[Licentiapacisterra]

A question for both of you to answer individually: why have you chosen to bid with your current partner, rather than maybe someone who has more WCC hosting experience that would be more commonly found in CoH bids?

Personally, I was approached by Apox about this, and I thought that the two of us working together would work out really well. In my opinion, we both have a good amount of hosting experience, even if not all of it is WCC events, and the idea of promoting a region that we both enjoy and buy into, but isn't necessarily one of the "big two", was a massive bonus.

I'll try and be around to answer some more questions, but as I'm in the States, I can't guarantee that I'll be around before the weekend.

[Polar Islandstates]

I believe what I written was different to what I was thinking and has definitely been interpreted different to how I imagined by PIS.

What I mean by each roleplay, is each post which can contain more than one roleplay. For the purposes of scoring roleplays, each post will count as one RP, even if there are more than one RP line contained within it. For example, Nation X may wish to RP a match report and then later on in the post RP a continuing scoreline or a collaborative RP or something along those lines. To be clear, this is fine. It is only once someone posts another separate post that any RP's contained within the second post count as a second RP and therefore the best post rules apply.

To be honest, I only put that bit in there as some nations such have been posting two posts per matchday so far in the World Cup and I wanted to make it clear that those who posted more than once wouldn't receive extra credit for doing so. Otherwise you could post 16 posts per matchday and gain full RP bonus even if the RP's within each post were quite poor. Most people only post one post per matchday, normally containing 1-3 RP ideas, and that is fine, the bonus will be taken considering all RP's in that post, not only the best one! I hope that clear's it up, but just to make sure:

For those who can't be bothered to read my long blatherings/explanation, here is a summary:
1: Posting more than one RP idea per matchday is fine as long as it is contained within a single post.
2: All RP's within one post will be considered not just the best one.
3: When two or more posts occur between matchday's the best one will be judged upon.
4: I need to think how I word that bit, I'll go and edit it out.

Hope that clears any problems up.

I understand your intentions, this explanation was helpful but didn't strictly clear up my point.

My issue is this: Imagine two users drawn in the same group for the CoH, both good friends so willing to take liberties with each other's RP permissions etc.
22 hours to cutoff: User A posts an RP summarising his recent match with User C and looking ahead to his match with User B
14 hours to cutoff: User B posts a hilarious and cheeky RP featuring a lot of smacktalk about his future opponent, User A
3 hours to cutoff: User A sees this RP and wants to respond to it with a cheeky response of his own.

User A's options at this time are
a) go back to an RP from 19 hours ago and edit in a response that will make no sense given the post he's responding to is 6 hours down the RP thread
b) make another post and get effectively penalised, with 50% at best of his efforts counting for bonus, compared to 100% of User B's.

I don't think this is fair, and, particularly as this is the kind of RPing that is tremendously enjoyable, I don't think it would be constructive to an entertaining tournament, either. I have no doubt that the both of you could run an efficient and fun tournament, which is why I only didn't take part in the bid myself because of time restrictions, but this policy seems a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

My response to your point here:

Otherwise you could post 16 posts per matchday and gain full RP bonus even if the RP's within each post were quite poor.

...would be to say, 'could you?' As hosts, this is up to you to decide and regulate against. Any bonus system that would allow this hasn't been well thought out, IMO, but this method isn't the only way around it.

I appreciate the problem you are attempting to solve, but I don't think that this is the best solution to it. Not by a long shot. Far better, IMO, would be to consider all posts that day by one user as one long post, as the current WC hosts are doing. Ffrom there on in you can treat the multiple posts just as you would treat any one post with double spacing, a huge list of fixtures, or massive pictures - just a way of making an RP seem longer. I've no doubt there are people who try and 'cheat the system' like this, but there are also genuine double posters, and they shouldn't be discouraged.

[Apox]

That part of the bid has been edited out after very reasonable points by Polar Islandstates and Free South Califas. The whole marking thing had turned into something different to what I had originally imagined.

[Free South Califas]

Problems solved ladies and gents, the RP bonus section of the bid has now been edited to avoid confusion.

Thanks. As the bid currently stands, you have this WCC member's support. Good luck. The lack of a clear senior partner is unconventional, but both of you have a reliable and honest reputation, you have WCC experience, and you've herded cats in Esportiva without much or any guiding precedent, so this bid is good enough for a CoH IMHO.

Ffrom there on in you can treat the multiple posts just as you would treat any one post with double spacing, a huge list of fixtures, or massive pictures - just a way of making an RP seem longer. I've no doubt there are people who try and 'cheat the system' like this, but there are also genuine double posters, and they shouldn't be discouraged.

At the risk of dwelling in irrelevancies (as the bid has been edited), I'd also like to point out that sometimes an FA logo, a huge list of fixtures and a large (spoilered) pic are sometimes quite honest attempts to merely make the RP look like the document one envisions mentally, not intended to trick anyone into valuing them more than they are worth. I've used these things and trusted hosts not to give me disproportionate bonuses for them, and it's worked out pretty well so far, I think.

[Blouman Empire]

I know votes are open and I may have missed it but I never got a comfortable explanation with the KBP rankings? Are there not going to be post WCQ rankings? Are we just going to count pre KBP rankings? Assuming I'm invited of course I'm seeing this as hurting those such as myself who have actually performed well this qualifying session to be harmed as all those results count for nothing in this Cup. in RL that experience would be counting towards something, while here it doesn't.

[Apox]

I know votes are open and I may have missed it but I never got a comfortable explanation with the KBP rankings? Are there not going to be post WCQ rankings? Are we just going to count pre KBP rankings? Assuming I'm invited of course I'm seeing this as hurting those such as myself who have actually performed well this qualifying session to be harmed as all those results count for nothing in this Cup. in RL that experience would be counting towards something, while here it doesn't.

As far as we know there are going to be post-qual rankings, and we'll be using those.