[Bid] :: World Cup 62 - Vilita / Liventia

[Vilita]

Vilitan Hosting Experience: Cup of Harmony XIV AOCAF II Baptism of Fire Cup PXVI Colony Cup 1.1 Baptism of Fire Cup PXVII World Cup XVII Baptism of Fire Cup PXVII Baptism of Fire Cup PXIX World Cup XIX Baptism of Fire Cup PXX AO Hockey Championships I Baptism of Fire Cup PXXI Baptism of Fire Cup PXXII World Cup XXII Nationstates Surf Tour Baptism of Fire Cup PXXIII Baptism of Fire Cup PXXIV Baptism of Fire Cup PXXV World Cup XXXI Cup of Harmony XXVI Nationstates Grand Prix II AO Hockey Championships IV Nationstates Grand Prix III Nationstates Grand Prix IV Cup of Harmony L (50th Edition) World Cup XLIX AOCAF 36 Cup of Harmony LIII (53rd Edition) .

Liventia Hosting Experience: Baptism of Fire 3 (pre WC16) Cup of Harmony 12 (for WC20) World Cup 22 World Cup 37 Baptism of Fire 26 (pre WC39) World Cup 41 Cup of Harmony 34 (for WC42) World Cup 46 Baptism of Fire 34 (pre WC47) Field Hockey World Cup 6 Field Hockey World Cup 11 World Championship in Field Hockey 1 World Championship in Field Hockey 2 World Championship in Field Hockey 3 Cherry Cup 7 World Baseball Classic 6 World Baseball Classic 9 NationStates F1GP 4 World Grand Prix Championship 6 World Grand Prix Championship 7 World Grand Prix Championship 8 World Grand Prix Championship 10 I Winter Paralympics VII Winter Olympics Cup of Harmony 51 (for WC59) Rushmori Games

Scorination:
Xkoranate(NSFS)+-5 Style Range

Scorination would take place daily with each team playing each other once, before a mid-qual day off, returning with each team playing each other once more at the home of the team that was away during the first half of qualification.

RP bonus will be two fold. Each user will have the roster rated from 1-5. This will count towards the RP Bonus but not as an "RP". Each user that RP's in the RP Thread will also receive a 'flat' RP Bonus that will remain active for the duration of the cup (A small boost to any RPer over any non-RPer). RP Frequency and quality will then be determined throughout the tournament by the formula put into the xkoranate that has been used for multiple host tournaments in the past.

Equivalent bonus available per matchday could be up to 2-3 KPB, depending on the number of matchdays. RE: Maxpoints; We will run simulations before hand to make sure everything is good. If 2 isn't the right value and 1.25 (or something else) is, then thats what we'll use. The RP spreadsheet referred to will be 100% adaptable to whatever the value is and is what we will be using as hosts so where my primary focus was

Format:
Format will vary depending on the final number of signups. We are prepared to utilize any viable group stage format corresponding with the number of signups to allow maximum participation. Playoffs to be utilized as required to reach the necessary 32 teams for the final stage.

Tie-breakers:
1) Head to Head Points
2) Head to Head Goal Difference
3) Goal Difference
4) Wins
5) Goals Scored

The Experience:
As two experienced hosts, Liventia, who started participating during World Cup 6 and Vilita, who joined a 7 cups later, have many historical tidbits they can inject into the World Cup 62 Experience. The user behind Vilita recently hosted the 53rd Cup of Harmony as a solo job, but incorporated many nations beyond those actually participating in the cup of harmony making for a unique experience. The regions of Atlantian Oceania and The Heartland are two regions with storied sporting pasts and will provide the perfect backdrop for Nationstates's Premier Sporting Competition

[Geisenfried]

So, just for clarification - it is xkoranate you're planning on using? You put 'Xkoranate/NSFS', but mention using xkoranate later, so I'm assuming that's the case.

Certainly can't question the credentials, though.

[Saugeais]

So, just for clarification - it is xkoranate you're planning on using? You put 'Xkoranate/NSFS', but mention using xkoranate later, so I'm assuming that's the case.

Certainly can't question the credentials, though.

I think he means xkoranate with the NSFS modifier; SQIS and Footba11er are the other two.

Good bid, IMO you have the right range for daily RP bonus. Everything else is fairly pedestrian, but sometimes normal is the best way to go.

[Liventia]

So, just for clarification - it is xkoranate you're planning on using? You put 'Xkoranate/NSFS', but mention using xkoranate later, so I'm assuming that's the case.

Certainly can't question the credentials, though.

I think he means xkoranate with the NSFS modifier; SQIS and Footba11er are the other two.

Yes, we intend to use xkoranate using the NSFS formula.

[Geisenfried]

Guess I'm showing my unfamiliarity with xkoranate here. Thanks for confirming it anyway.

[Slembana]

This is a really good bid, dudes.

[Cassadaigua]

If you just called it VI-LIV instead of VIL-LIV, you would have 62 in roman numerals.
Just an observation. I see nothing wrong with your bid.

[Lymantatia]

Cool palindrome.

[Valanora]

My main complaint with this bid is that the RP bonus available per matchday is two to three times more than what the past few editions have used. It was this sort of number during the early and middle fifties editions that lead to such random results that many of the veteran and mid tier level nations (those that have been around a few Cups) were bemoaning in these editions. Why have you opted for such a high numerical bonus in this light?

[High Heels]

My main complaint with this bid is that the RP bonus available per matchday is two to three times more than what the past few editions have used. It was this sort of number during the early and middle fifties editions that lead to such random results that many of the veteran and mid tier level nations (those that have been around a few Cups) were bemoaning in these editions. Why have you opted for such a high numerical bonus in this light?

Val, I don't think the 1-5 is the range for RPs, only for the roster. Other ranges are carefully not specified, if I read right.

[Valanora]

In the spoiler it is listed as 2-3 KPBs per MD. I am not completely certain about the other editions, but the norm has been to lower the numerical value to around 1.25/1.5 since mine and Sorth's hosting, as a direct result of the randomness such larger numerical RP bonuses provide. Even something that LE mentioned himself in IRC the other night is that the intent of the RP bonus was in so much as to provide a reward for RPing, not improve ones chances of winning, so much so that it was at one point part of the constitution. So this seems doubly odd given that context.

[Liventia]

Even something that LE mentioned himself in IRC the other night is that the intent of the RP bonus was in so much as to provide a reward for RPing, not improve ones chances of winning, so much so that it was at one point part of the constitution. So this seems doubly odd given that context.

While I'll let Vil handle the answer about the bonus as we'll be using a spreadsheet of his to calculate bonuses, I want to clear up the context behind this as I don't believe my comments are being portrayed correctly.

I simply happened to be looking at the old WCC rules pre-Constitution (not actually articles "at one point part of the constitution") and mentioned what the old rules said about idea of RP bonus — which have long since been discarded to history as a quirk of the past.

Specifically the rule was this — quoted in full with emphasis mine to show where we've long since diverged: "RULE 11: There will be a Role Playing (RP) Bonus. Exactly how the RP Bonus will be done for each World Cup will be explained by the host(s) in their bid. If the host proposes to use a method that has already been used, simply stating who used it for which WC will suffice. When the WCC selects the host(s) they are also selecting that method of RP Bonus. The RP Bonus MUST be small, slightly bigger for "Newbs" who RP, and neither based on quality (which is subjective) or quantity (which leads to endless and boring rps put there only for the bonus). SIMPLE is key - remember, it is realy there only to encourage us all to RP, not to improve our chances."

Clearly this has not been the case for many cups now and is not valid in the current context.

I never at any point portrayed this as my own view.

[Vilita]

In the spoiler it is listed as 2-3 KPBs per MD. I am not completely certain about the other editions, but the norm has been to lower the numerical value to around 1.25/1.5 since mine and Sorth's hosting, as a direct result of the randomness such larger numerical RP bonuses provide. Even something that LE mentioned himself in IRC the other night is that the intent of the RP bonus was in so much as to provide a reward for RPing, not improve ones chances of winning, so much so that it was at one point part of the constitution. So this seems doubly odd given that context.

2-3 KPBs per MD is whats theoretically available, not what you will get as a result of making a post. As LE notes, the RP bonus will be calculated by a spreadsheet i have, and to get 3 KPB's per matchday you would have to be *insert super-awesome novelist here*.

The reality is, no one will get the max, and most will fall right into that "half" range that you cite, with the best RP's (Of the cup, don't expect to see these every day) probably more in the 2 range, though it leaves room for someone to earn a little more if they really deserve it.

The bottom line is, the RP's are graded with a lot of room at the top for those who add extra detail to earn credit for it, instead of people maxing their RP bonus out just because they've written a standard post. What that means is, the majority of posts will be in the 1-2 range, and I expect there will be far more posts below 1 than those above 2 (if there are any that earn above 2).

This RP bonus is the same as the one used during World Cup 59. I could pull metrics from it to see who that maxes were, but I don't know that it will directly translate anything.

[Valanora]

Yet you neglect to mention why you are for the increased randomness that it creates with the maxpoints having to be increased.

[Vilita]

Yet you neglect to mention why you are for the increased randomness that it creates with the maxpoints having to be increased.

I made no statement in the bid as to what the "maxpoints" value would be set at, nor did the other bid. Nor did either host make any statement of being for any increased randomness compared to some previous competition, these are what I would consider to be unfair assumptions you have made. The spreadsheet being used to calculate RP bonus is completely external to the xkoranate system. It runs the host input grades through some formulas to determine the RP bonus a nation receives, then outputs new segments for the .xml file for direct insertion into xkoranate. Thats why my statement was a general one stating how much BONUS a team could potentially earn (but be highly unlikely to) in a given matchday, and not a definitive statement about a specific value in a scorinator.

The system being employed is identical to the one already used successfully during World Cup 59. We are proposing to re-use that system. No complaints were voiced at the time of that bid, nor throughout the cup which seemed to go quite smoothly.

If it was too random for you to have the #1 team in the World win the World Cup by defeating the #3 seed, and 5 of the top 6 ranked teams to make the quarter finals then I'm happy to discuss statistics with you and what effect alterations in the formula might have.

[The Babbage Islands]

<snip>The system being employed is identical to the one already used successfully during World Cup 59. We are proposing to re-use that system. No complaints were voiced at the time of that bid, nor throughout the cup which seemed to go quite smoothly.<snip>

World Cup 59 used SQIS for which maxpoints have no relevance. This proposal uses NSFS for which maxpoints are very relevant. The same bonus system will not function identically with the difference in scorinator formulas.

[Vilita]

<snip>The system being employed is identical to the one already used successfully during World Cup 59. We are proposing to re-use that system. No complaints were voiced at the time of that bid, nor throughout the cup which seemed to go quite smoothly.<snip>

World Cup 59 used SQIS for which maxpoints have no relevance. This proposal uses NSFS for which maxpoints are very relevant. The same bonus system will not function identically with the difference in scorinator formulas.

Fair enough, Like I said, I wasn't referring specifically to the maxpoints value in Xkoranate.

I mean, the bottom line is, We will run simulations before hand to make sure everything is good. If 2 isn't the right value and 1.25 is, then thats what we'll use. The spreadsheet will be 100% adaptable to whatever the value is and is what we will be using as hosts so where my primary focus was