The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, version III)

[Qazox]

A young whippersnapper. Now I ain't as Old as Old man Frosticus over there; but back in my day, newcomers were expected to lose 5-0 or worse every game for their first 5 world cups, and only after they passed the secret initiation test were they even allowed to score a goal against a team that competed in the first 10 WCs. Now we get teams fresh outta the BoF qualifying, kids these days.

Do you want me to get off your lawn now?

Yes.

[Felix]

Do you want me to get off your lawn now?

Yes.

Nah, this young whippersnapper is too lazy.

[The Archregimancy]

Regarding this, as there is of right now 198/9 (one entry looks disputed from what I can tell) nations currently signed up and no CTEs, we're looking at 202 as the max number of entrants to be our number, though 182 is still our more desirable one. Anymore and it's a long ways off to a workable number, as even 202 has us debating the right format to use. Given that, if it comes to curtailing, we'll look at those puppets and nations last signed up first, with priority of being retained to obviously long standing members and puppets, after asking for a volunteering of withdrawls. It's not something we really want to do, but the sheer size, which will be a record, of this WC is like to force our hand.

I wonder if one simple solution to the recent size of the World Cup is for the President to set a cut-off date for sign-ups.

The last couple of World Cup cycles seem to have had a somewhat longer gap between the conclusion of the WC and the start of the BoF. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives us all time to recharge our batteries, but it does mean that sign-ups are left open for quite some time; while this particular cycle has seen welcome late sign-ups from a couple of returning veterans, in general the trickle of late sign-ups tend to boost tournament numbers without necessarily boosting tournament participation.

Perhaps the sign-up thread should be left open initially for (and this is a purely hypothetical figure) only three weeks. The hosts could then have the sign-up thread re-opened for a further set period, or until they reach the desired number of participants, at their discretion.

This solution is equally fair to everyone, and doesn't cap the size of the tournament - it only limits the sign-up period, and still leaves final discretion with the hosts.

To avoid misunderstandings over scenarios like "but I didn't know when sign-ups were starting, and I was on holiday for three weeks!", the establishment of a set initial period for sign-ups could be accompanied with a set opening point for the new sign-up thread, for example (again hypothetical) at the quarter-final stage of the current World Cup.


Thoughts?

[Free South Califas]

<Turns on hearing aid>

<Waves stick around in the air>

Listen, sonny, anyone who didn't participate in World Cups 1-4 is one of those new-fangled noob-things you youngsters are always going on about.

Why, you'll not credit this, and I'm not being funny by pointing it out, but back in World Cup 2, I remember Tanah Burung and Al Quds telling me that...

<Falls asleep; snores>

Oddly enough the name Al Quds always interested me... Mr. Frosticus, what was Quds like?

I hear he plays his pickup games in the Champions League, changes his oil with a sledgehammer, goes skydiving with dictators, and only drinks one brand of beer.

How's this for an out-of the box idea?

A group qualifying phase with no automatic qualifying spots. Instead, the draw is made with thirty groups (of around 6-8 teams), which qualify a top two to either one-legged or two-legged playoffs. The KPBs won't need an overhaul - playoffs have never counted - and it should reduce qualifying to two weeks or less before the playoffs.

Thoughts?

I like the chutpah, but I think putting every potential qualifier through the playoffs is just tempting RAND to break the suspension of disbelief. Chaos dominates much of our lives, and I think previous hosts have been right to attempt to limit it through minimal reliance on playoffs. JMHO. That being said, tournament size may force us into this system some day.

You're going the wrong direction, Qaz. People are getting burnt out from writing lengthy roleplays almost every day for over two weeks.

This has made me think even more positively about double-MD scorination...

Since the idea is not about shortening the cycle per se, but about the RP demand of an 18-MD qualification, you could, if you did double-MD scorination, do a 48-hour cut-off. Personally I find this really helps keep my RP fresh, and I know with AOCAF going 48s this time around there was good feedback in Pacitalia's bid about this.

As someone who is only beginning to find my fiction writing voice, I would tend to agree. 48 hour cutoffs would be a relief, not to mention fostering a more holistic writing process. It is also thematically justifiable by the fact that, realistically, most major changes in a team's outlook/tactics take a couple of games to show results.

... Obvious flaws with the above 'solution' include 'only Legaleseknows how the is crazy enough to see if Swiss System works'...

Just had to fix that portion for you

Meh, I am open minded. As long as a new system is fair and stable, and the bidder has good reason to be confident in what they choose to do, I'm willing to vote for many things. There's nothing wrong with freshening things up a bit.

[Europa Brittania]

I've signed up for the BoF, then: seeing as I'll have no ranking, I suppose it's best to get what I can prior to being ABSOLUTELY SMASHED in the actual tournament. Still, the reason all us veterans have returned is to play a long game that results in the Old Guard establishing themselves once more at the top of the pyramid, for all time.

So nyah.

I take it we still have a World Cup Committee?

Also, I heard Al Quds once retroactively stripped his entire World Cup I squad of all caps earned for "Conduct unbecoming of a legendary footballing nation,".

I'll just take this opportunity to put together the WC history series I've co-authored in the past, for ease of future reference. Credit shared with Kagdazka & Pazhujebu (now known as The Pazhujeb Islands) and Polar Islandstates/Ossidiacqua.

World Cups 1 to 10
World Cups 11 to 18
World Cups 19 to 30: The Rise of Atlantian Oceania
World Cups 31 to 39
World Cups 40 to 47: A Duel of Two
World Cups 48 to 51
World Cups 52 to 54: New Challengers Rise
World Cup 55
World Cup 56
World Cup 57
World Cup 58
World Cup 59
World Cup 60

Re. World Cup 9: "As if all this wasn't enough, there were widespread accusations of match-fixing as both hosts, Ravenspire and Europa Brittania, made the final," I think only in NationStates could someone compete in eight consecutive World Cups without a win, finally win one, and wind up having his victorious World Cup somehow remembered for allegations of match-fixing that came from one individual alone (TBF - The Balmoral Family).

[The Archregimancy]

I've signed up for the BoF, then: seeing as I'll have no ranking, I suppose it's best to get what I can prior to being ABSOLUTELY SMASHED in the actual tournament. Still, the reason all us veterans have returned is to play a long game that results in the Old Guard establishing themselves once more at the top of the pyramid, for all time.

So nyah.

I take it we still have a World Cup Committee?

Yes, but I'm not sure whether you were around when the original World Cup Committee founded by Ariddia and myself (with my other nation, obviously) transmuted into the Emergency World Cup Committee.

As a past World Cup host, you're automatically a member of the EWCC, but you're not currently a member of the full WCC.

I was in a similar anomaly when I came back in WC24.

[Astograth]

Re. World Cup 9: "As if all this wasn't enough, there were widespread accusations of match-fixing as both hosts, Ravenspire and Europa Brittania, made the final," I think only in NationStates could someone compete in eight consecutive World Cups without a win, finally win one, and wind up having his victorious World Cup somehow remembered for allegations of match-fixing that came from one individual alone (TBF - The Balmoral Family).

Yes - to be fair, I guided myself by the biased wiki article on that one, and never thought I'd see the day I'd stand corrected.

[Europa Brittania]

I've signed up for the BoF, then: seeing as I'll have no ranking, I suppose it's best to get what I can prior to being ABSOLUTELY SMASHED in the actual tournament. Still, the reason all us veterans have returned is to play a long game that results in the Old Guard establishing themselves once more at the top of the pyramid, for all time.

So nyah.

I take it we still have a World Cup Committee?

Yes, but I'm not sure whether you were around when the original World Cup Committee founded by Ariddia and myself (with my other nation, obviously) transmuted into the Emergency World Cup Committee.

As a past World Cup host, you're automatically a member of the EWCC, but you're not currently a member of the full WCC.

I was in a similar anomaly when I came back in WC24.

I was indeed a member of the Emergency World Cup Committee - when I resurrected EB, I also performed a google search and found EB membership of the original off-site Board that - once upon a time - must have been used to host something relevant to the Emergency WCC; purely because the signature of EB here. The NSwiki lists the composite members of the Emergency WCC having "transformed" into the Executive WCC, but obviously since I haven't competed lately I'll assume I'm a member of the EWCC, but not the WCC itself and further more won't have voting rights in the EWCC until I've participated in a WC again.

More importantly, I've just remembered I was the losing finalist of the first World Cup. Crosshill needs to return so I can have my vengeance.

Re. World Cup 9: "As if all this wasn't enough, there were widespread accusations of match-fixing as both hosts, Ravenspire and Europa Brittania, made the final," I think only in NationStates could someone compete in eight consecutive World Cups without a win, finally win one, and wind up having his victorious World Cup somehow remembered for allegations of match-fixing that came from one individual alone (TBF - The Balmoral Family).

Yes - to be fair, I guided myself by the biased wiki article on that one, and never thought I'd see the day I'd stand corrected.

It's not your fault. As I'm sure Audio and Fausticus and any older-timers can attest, there were a certain number of individuals (TBF, LE before he calmed down a bit) who were very quick to leap on any situation they perceived as disadvantageous to them. I don't mind - Hell, maybe it can provide an interesting roleplay opportunity.

[Gaveo]

Oddly enough the name Al Quds always interested me... Mr. Frosticus, what was Quds like?

I hear he plays his pickup games in the Champions League, changes his oil with a sledgehammer, goes skydiving with dictators, and only drinks one brand of beer.

What a man...

[Milchama]

New blood? I thought the likes of ASMV, ESF, Star, Krytie, Cass, etc. were old blood. Then what the heck am I?

Very flattering!
But I don't belong in the same sentence as them when it comes to experience! I began in WC 43.

Some later 40s WC cycle was me and Cass yelling at each other. With me being the usual arrogant bastards ICly and Cass actually winning.

[Audioslavia]

Seeing as we're discussing 'that' World Cup, I feel its appropriate to link you to The Audioslavian version of events

[Liventia]

Reading through that, how Spaam ever got voted as WCC president is now beyond me. Also a rather scary thought. At least it's been decided he wouldn't be on the EWCC if he returned, since EWCC membership specifically states that members must have hosted a World Cup to completion.

[Polar Islandstates]

Reading through that, how Spaam ever got voted as WCC president is now beyond me. Also a rather scary thought.

Beats me. And yes, isn't it

[NSWC Signups]

Voting Results are IN.

Timings and numbers are now handed over to the hosts.

[Legalese]

First, a thank you to my colleagues on the EWCC for entrusting Kinitaria and I with the 52nd Baptism of Fire hosting duties.

That said, I have a Baptism of Fire Host Announcement (cross-posted in the signup thread):

As of the recent count, there are 57 nations currently signed up for entry into the upcoming Baptism of Fire, including Joshulia. At this time, all nations currently entered are guaranteed entry, with the exception of Tirdarsaor, who is the most-recent puppet (in terms of entry order) to join the field. Tirdarsaor will be admitted as soon as either one additional nation enters, and/or a nation withdraws or CTEs before the draw is held.

Upon the entry of one more team, the field will be soft-locked at 58 teams. Further entries will be accepted should a pair of teams enter, and will follow in order on the waiting list until accepted. All nations are reminded that the usual rules (no more than two nations per user, and only one entry permitted for users who are new - i.e., only one first-time nation per cycle per user) still apply.

Additionally, the entry of Colland, while currently accepted as per the interpretation of the WCC President, is undergoing host review. I ask that Colland TG me at this user name to clarify if his/her post was, in fact, intended to be a BoF entry.

[Gaveo]

I have a question, since NS Wiki is not working, should I (and by I mean my puppet, Felix) put my sports stuff (and other things) in Wikistates?

And that question also applies to the World Cup, I saw the article for it, and it's only up to World Cup 46... If memory serves.

[Legalese]

I have a question, since NS Wiki is not working, should I (and by I mean my puppet, Felix) put my sports stuff (and other things) in Wikistates?

And that question also applies to the World Cup, I saw the article for it, and it's only up to World Cup 46... If memory serves.

Not really necessary from a "necessary to the thing" deal, but sure, why not? At least the history will be alive online somewhere other that here.

[Liventia]

Do what you want. There is no official wiki.

[Gaveo]

I have a question, since NS Wiki is not working, should I (and by I mean my puppet, Felix) put my sports stuff (and other things) in Wikistates?

And that question also applies to the World Cup, I saw the article for it, and it's only up to World Cup 46... If memory serves.

Not really necessary from a "necessary to the thing" deal, but sure, why not? At least the history will be alive online somewhere other that here.

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

Do what you want. There is no official wiki.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

[Liventia]

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

This isn't the NSWiki discussion thread.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

I don't think anyone else is overly concerned. For the record, WC62 is the last recorded one on NSwiki, so we're not as far behind as you think.

[Taeshan]

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

This isn't the NSWiki discussion thread.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

I don't think anyone else is overly concerned. For the record, WC62 is the last recorded one on NSwiki, so we're not as far behind as you think.

And on that note NSWIKI is apparently back online so catch up before it goes out again.



YES!!!!!

So it looks like what i will be doing on my birthday is updating all my nswiki pages.

[Qazox]

Not really necessary from a "necessary to the thing" deal, but sure, why not? At least the history will be alive online somewhere other that here.

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

Do what you want. There is no official wiki.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

WikiStates is the alternate site (sortof) but most of the WC data isn't updated.

also: I for one welcome our Pasargian and Saugeaisian overlords, and

which one do i send the bribe to???

[Gaveo]

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

WikiStates is the alternate site (sortof) but most of the WC data isn't updated.

also: I for one welcome our Pasargian and Saugeaisian overlords, and

which one do i send the bribe to???

Me, I'll hook you up.

Yeah, now do you know why they won't allow editing for NS Wiki? I have no clue.

This isn't the NSWiki discussion thread.

Oh, I know. I'm just concerned that the the WCs won't be recorded on another website other than NS and since most of the current WC info/history is invested in NS Wiki.

I don't think anyone else is overly concerned. For the record, WC62 is the last recorded one on NSwiki, so we're not as far behind as you think.

Ok, I am just concerned about WC history.

I was talking about Wikistates... Not NS Wiki.

[Neo Lemmitania]

Seeing as we're discussing 'that' World Cup, I feel its appropriate to link you to The Audioslavian version of events

Nice recap, I'd forgotten all that.

[Free South Califas]

Thanks Audio. Also, glad to see we have bids the majority finds acceptable and we can march onward with this thing Congrats to Kinitaria, Legalese, Pasarga and Saugeais - a promising quartet indeed.